| New bans being considered in Wa State
Posted: 6/17/2008 8:44:39 PM | | If it were up to me, I'd keep the ban in cars and lift the ban in bars. At least in bars, the presumption is that all who are in them, even the workers, are there by consent. Not so when you're in a car and mom's smoking up a storm with the windows up and the kids are in the back seat. | |
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| New bans being considered in Wa State
Posted: 6/17/2008 11:23:51 PM | | Yea that is true as well, but then they would have to make all bars and pubs a 21 and over place in order not to "contradict" the ban on cars when kids go to bars and inhale the smoke of dozens of cigs which would make it worse than being in the car. But then again I agree, this law should be give and take, not take all or give all. Yea I also agree, people who work the bars and pubs know darn well what they are getting into, many of them smoke anyways. At the Indian Casinos I have applied for many jobs there and with each app it says that you must be able to work in a smoke filled environment, if you cant then we cant offer you a job. | |
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| New bans being considered in Wa State
Posted: 6/19/2008 12:36:09 PM | Being a mother, having smoked in my past (and on rare occasion might have one now - yes stupid but oh well) and having many friends that do smoke, I am totally FOR banning smoking in cars or any enclosed place a child is.
I think banning in bars is ridiculous and should be a private matter, but children often do not have the choice and many smokers (I include myself in this catagory from prior days) do not consider others.
Regardless of the health risks, a person should have the right whether they want to breathe in smoke or have it cling to them and smell like an ashtray themselves.
An enclosed place such as a car (and windows down only forces it into the faces in the backseat more - I know by experience) ect doesn't give a person that freedom - outside is different (and I have heard of some public parks that banned smoking nearly playing fields ect due to kids). On that rare occasion that I might smoke, it's outside and away from my daughter, and so are my friends that smoke.
As for the other issues such as bottled water - I can see both sides. | |
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| New bans being considered in Wa State
Posted: 6/19/2008 10:05:11 PM | So, does this law being considered mean that cops can pull a person over for merely observing someone smoking in there car be it with a child or not? I have a real problem with this kind of stuff. To me at least you’re flirting with disaster with these types of laws. I men seriously, don’t cops have other more pertinent serious stuff to deal with? Additionally, where are the extra cops going to come from to enforce this law?
Sounds like one of two things:
a.) It’s just an excuse to generate additional revenues through fines for the state.
b.) It’s and excuse; a back door way of pulling someone over when there isn’t probable cause to.
But then again that’s just my two cents… | |
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| New bans being considered in Wa State
Posted: 6/20/2008 2:50:16 AM | ^^^^^^^^Reliable-Guy
No, it's only if a child is in the car, a minor. The point being a child can't say "Hey could ya put that out, I'm choking and it stinks" neither can they get up and out if you choose not too. It's for minor's health, and I can see both sides, I understand what your saying but I agree with it only because children do not have a voice and really shouldn't be breathing in smoke. And being in a car confines it even more and the child can't just leave the room, they are stuck in it. Having a child myself, I don't want to force her to breathe smoke. I can choose to smoke but she should have a choice as well. | |
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| New bans being considered in Wa State
Posted: 6/20/2008 9:30:57 AM | Realiable I agree, its just another money making machine cause the state mismanages their money. Also its much more taxing on an already over taxing job, and here we are wanting to hand out fines for smoking and yet drunk driving, speeding, DV etc are already major causes of abuse and death. Plus my question is how are the cops going to notice someone smoking in the cars, I mean its not like they are gonna have a radar gun for it, or pick it out on a fast moving highway. No, I mean you gotta get close to see that, gotta see the kids and the cig, when I smoke in the car, I let my hand holding the cigar rest on the console and to prevent the car from getting smoke filled, I turn on my AC to a downward draft which brings the vapors into the ground, thereby actually preventing any cop from noticing unless he really took his eyes off the road to see if I was smoking with minors in the car.
About the wind blowing smoke into the back seat. It sounds like you had it all the way down or more down than you should. You should have it down an inch to an inch in a half for wind download which means there is air escaping. When the window is down more you get wind upload which brings more air in but not without pushing the old air into the back. this I have learned from experience. Most smokers I see have their window cracked like that but again thats just from my point of view.
My main point is we have fatter fish to fry before we move to these issues which are very much in the line between lawful and intrusive. | |
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| New bans being considered in Wa State
Posted: 6/23/2008 8:27:31 PM | Anyone actually see what the fine is for getting caught talking on the phone without a headset after getting pulled over for something else?
It's a $101 fine on top of whatever you got pulled over for in the first place, and I am sure the state patrol can come up with all sorts of reasons to pull people over if they see them not using hands free.
I do like the idea in the fact that it might finally get people to put the phone down. It might not cause very many less accidents, but I will be scared a bit less when someone tries to merge in to me at 70+ mph because their hand is in the way of their perepheral vision on the left side, so they don't see the large truck that's already there. | |
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| New bans being considered in Wa State
Posted: 6/23/2008 9:17:56 PM | | Guess what I just thought of...what are these poor cops gonna do if they can't hold their cell phones while they drive anymore? I see them in their patrol cars just as much if not moreso then anyone else. | |
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gvnage
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Joined: 6/16/2008
Msg: 34 | |
| New bans being considered in Wa State
Posted: 6/24/2008 10:58:33 PM | | well, its right to protect kids from smoke. My city's drinkng water comes from a lake where they allow power boats and hence all the pollution they add to the lake. There is a huge cancer rate here. Noone at the goverment or health Dept is dealing w/ that. People should have a right to drink clean water ya know | |
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| New bans being considered in Wa State
Posted: 6/25/2008 8:09:47 AM | | Have you done anything to try and make the point in their face? Sadly, most people (politicians and not) won't do anything about it unless it is forced for them to look. | |
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| New bans being considered in Wa State
Posted: 6/25/2008 2:59:25 PM | I would have to agree with you Vax. It is as bad as drunk driving.
I have been the victim of phone-drivers myself, I bet most of us have. But is it enough to call it a “secondary offense”? People could only be charged AFTER they cause an accident or receive some other infraction.
“On July 1, the new law takes effect in Washington that bans driving while using a hand-held cell phone.
Drivers caught holding a mobile phone to their ear risk a $124 ticket. To talk on a phone drivers should use a handsfree headset or speaker phone. But, the law allows exceptions for people reporting an emergency or crime.
The violation is a so-called secondary offense. That means an officer must first stop the driver for some other violations, such as speeding; then the cell phone offense can be added to the ticket.”
Quote from: http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2035802/posts
I am torn on the smoking in the car issue though. I don’t want anyone stepping on my rights anymore than anyone else, but I was one of those children in the back seat constantly asking my parents to please open a window while smoking in the car. I agree with you though, it seems very middle-school to have to enforce common courtesy with legal action. | |
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| New bans being considered in Wa State
Posted: 6/29/2008 11:56:58 PM | Maryahshands
I agree that talking via cell phones while driving is bad a bad thing; it’s the source of many accident and countless near misses. However, just because someone isn’t holding an actual phone while their diving doesn’t mean you’re any safer. A driver can still be distracted even talking through a Blue-tooth or other such devices while they drive. It’ll be interesting to see if the accident rates actually go down once this new law starts. I don’t believe that it will.
You also wrote:
I am torn on the smoking in the car issue though. I don’t want anyone stepping on my rights anymore than anyone else, but I was one of those children in the back seat constantly asking my parents to please open a window while smoking in the car. I agree with you though, it seems very middle-school to have to enforce common courtesy with legal action.
Fist off I don’t think children should be subjected in anyway to second hand smoke. However, I just don’t see it as the states job, or business to decide what is right or wrong for me or anyone else in this regard. I mean seriously, they don’t do spot checks on whether or not you’re feeding your kid the proper foods so they don’t die of a heart attack latter down the road or that they aren’t licking lead painted toys. Now where to believe all of the sudden they want to protect the, “children’s rights,” in this regard. What about when these same people are at home smoking around there kids?
My whole point is this, just because a person gets fined for smoking with kids in a car isn’t going to do a damned thing to make them stop. It’s a back door way to line the States coffers with money nothing more regardless whether it’s a secondary offense or not.
Additionally, you wrote that you were subjected to secondhand smoke by your parents while you were a kid riding in their car. I can sympathize with you in that I hate cigarette smoke as well, but fact of the matter is you’re still alive and kicking. As harsh as that my sound my point is do you really want the state nibbling away at your rite to be a parent and raise your kid as you see fit. Compared to what some kids go through I’d say secondary smoke is very minor.
Again, I’m not in anyway saying that it’s healthy for a kid to breathe smoke filled air fact of that matter being it isn’t. What I’m saying is the state does this little tiny thing in the name of protecting kids, what else will we have to give up or be fined for next in the name of kids? I think this is frivolous BS! You can justify anything with the intention of doing good for, “children’s rights,” but when is that line crossed and should the state be the one to tell you what that is. This is a parental/personal responsibility and if you don't have the common sense to begin with the state fining you still isn't going to do anything. | |
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| New bans being considered in Wa State
Posted: 6/30/2008 8:01:37 AM | | If there is reasons to suspect you are not feeding your children and it is turned in, they will 'spot check.' So why not for 2nd hand smoke? | |
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| New bans being considered in Wa State
Posted: 6/30/2008 3:23:22 PM | | oh read another news article that speculates hands free cell devices are also next on the ban list on other states. Washington will no doubt follow through. Jeez, why didnt they do it all at once. | |
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| New bans being considered in Wa State
Posted: 6/30/2008 3:45:13 PM | | I have a hunch that the cell phone ban will become a primary offense before too long. All of the other states that started with it being secondary found little compliance. I'd just like to see a ban on bad driving, but that's not gonna happen anytime soon. | |
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| New bans being considered in Wa State
Posted: 6/30/2008 3:59:03 PM | You know what I'd really like to see ???
Department's of Licensing doing mandatory Re-Testing when Renewing your Driver's License.
Not one state in our union does this.
Of course this will rile some folks who will say that Re-testing will not help but prevent people from doing their daily tasks or make it harder to get to work and so on...
But let's think about this for a second ok ?
How many drivers who now drive crazy, cut other's off, speed excessively etc. etc. would be taken off the road after failing a mandatory Re-test ???
Yes those drivers IF denied a renewal would most likely drive anyways but instituting this measure could at least in some small way lead to a more preventitive measure, no ???
Or at the very least making a Re-test mandatory for the elderly drivers wishing to continue driving ??? | |
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| New bans being considered in Wa State
Posted: 6/30/2008 4:11:57 PM | I doubt that the people who drive like maniacs are going to do so during a mandatory re-test, should such a thing ever become routine in the first place. Aggression is a choice drivers make when they believe their own journey is more important than that of other drivers.
Reminds me of a bit by the late great George Carlin: Ever notice that people who drive slower than you are idiots and those who drive faster are maniacs? | |
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| New bans being considered in Wa State
Posted: 6/30/2008 4:33:30 PM | Ok let me elaborate...
The Re-Test would not be a driving test but..
Would be a Mandatory written Re-Test...
Fail that and NO DRIVER"S LICENSE.... Period.... | |
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| New bans being considered in Wa State
Posted: 6/30/2008 5:17:19 PM | I dont think a written nor hands on driving test will encourage defensive driving and no cell phone law or driving drunk law has ever made accidents less frequent. Still to this day you are more likely to be killed on a free way than in Iraq.
About the bottled water ban: last time I checked, all plastic (hope 2) bottles were recyclable, then why worry about land fill problems? | |
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| New bans being considered in Wa State
Posted: 6/30/2008 6:03:27 PM | | Seattle Artist: Probably because there are so many out there who do not recycle. It also takes energy to make those plastic bottles. I've purchased several glass bottles of sparkling water in sizes that will fit the cup holder in my car. Once I empty them, I wash them out and refill them from my tap (we have excellent water here). If you have bad tap water, you can fill up jugs at those water centers in the grocery store. This cuts down on waste and eliminates worries about biosphenol (sp) 3 leaching into your drinking water when your plastic bottle sits in the sun all day. | |
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| New bans being considered in Wa State
Posted: 6/30/2008 6:17:10 PM | bottled water, just like any other product takes energy....
I know we have good water, I came from a place that had petrol leaking into the water and during the summer it would taste like grass during droughts. I personally wont be affected by the bottled water ban as I always reuse those sturdy plastic blue water bottles and use them at work and home, I have had it for years!
But my main problem, even if my other reasons have been defused is choice. It is our right to drink bottled water verses drinking from a water fountain which is ladened with germs. I just think the government has fatter fish to fry. | |
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| New bans being considered in Wa State
Posted: 6/30/2008 6:45:35 PM | | Oh, don't get me wrong. I do not want the government mandating every little thing. I was simply answering your question about the landfills. | |
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| New bans being considered in Wa State
Posted: 7/1/2008 11:29:17 AM |
Reminds me of a bit by the late great George Carlin: Ever notice that people who drive slower than you are idiots and those who drive faster are maniacs?
Ooh! I'm gonna miss George! I think of that line all the time on the road. | |
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| New bans being considered in Wa State
Posted: 7/1/2008 2:03:28 PM |
I bought my car, I should have the right to smoke in it.
What "right" do you think you have to expose minors, who have no say in whether or not they ride in your car, to the potentially harmful effects of second-hand smoke??? | |
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| New bans being considered in Wa State
Posted: 7/4/2008 1:14:25 PM | Well, the problem is that at some point your freedoms become impaired. Now we all know that the Federal Government has it set up so that individual states can regulate laws as they see fit. Example its illegal to view porn in I think North or South Dakota. Now I can understand how a ban on smoking in the car if for children, I do not however see how a ban on porn in another state has any effect on anything. But my point being neither law is really enforceable. Sure a law enforcement officer who sees you smoking with kids in the car can stop you. I am sure if a cop in one of the Dakota's saw you with a porn movie or magazine or on your computer can cite you also. But we have choices. If you really want to smoke in your car move to another state that allows it. If you really need to view porn move to another state that allows it.
My major problem with these law are two fold. One they don't fix the problem (if there is one) and two enforcement is unpractical and we all pay for it. I am a retired fire chief and there are so many other things that are so much more important than these laws and the money wasted in enforcement, like my right to play poker on the internet.
Although I am not that old at 45, It used to be you could beat your kids into submission when they were bad (not really). I don't think I have any ill effects of learning that if I disobeyed a spanking was coming. I learned that everything had a consequence. If you have kids and smoke with the windows rolled up and shorten your kids life (not thats its fair to the kids) but how is that different than the neighbor who feed their kids at Micky D's every night and they are terribly obese (thanks mom!, thats what happened to me!) . Either way its bad for your kids. But at some point government has to let people do what they do. Clear cut child abuse is one thing, but how you feed your kids, smoke in a car (my step dad smoked a pipe and no it wasn't a crack pipe..lol) these things just can't be regulated by the morality police. | |
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