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| New bans being considered in Wa State
Posted: 7/5/2008 3:38:22 AM |
What "right" do you think you have to raise your children as you see fit without the express consent and aproval of absolute strangers who don't share your mores, ethics, and values???
There, I fixed it for you. :)
Seriously, these laws while appearing to be 'common sense' start to infringe on personal freedoms guranteed to us by our constitution.
Whilst we can all reasonably agree that all children sould have the right to "nutritious food" on a regular and consistant basis, I can also tell you that what a vegan would consider "nutritious food" and I (an omnivore with an extreme Atkins lean) would consider "nutritious food" are two completely different things. While I might support the idea of legislation to ensure parents provide "nutritious food" to their children, I'd be strongly opposed to any actual legislation that tried to enforce it beyond the absolute minimum standards - if at all. | |
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| New bans being considered in Wa State
Posted: 7/5/2008 8:27:02 AM | | yup. the "morality police" hits it right on the head. i am sick and tired of the moral superiority complex the finger-wagging, "nanny-knows-what's best for you", self-appointed "elite" of this state have adopted. if you"re that almighty worried about other peoples' kids, why don't you work on universal basic health and dental care for children, why don't you see to it that no kid in washington goes hungry, why not worry about lack of social services for children in abusive situations, lack of suitable foster care, lack of decent schooling? take your head out of your........and work on real problems. | |
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| New bans being considered in Wa State
Posted: 7/5/2008 1:21:34 PM | Wouldn't just banning all cigarette sales in WA State cure the whole problem? It wouldn't only save the children but think of all the teens and adults it would save. And while we are at it, lets put back the prohibition on alcohol, oh and I am sure we control what is allowed in the grocery and limit the quantity you buy so you can't end up being fat...well like me...lol Plus we should just out right ban porn, we all know that even though several well funded studies by the Federal Government have proved that pornography has no basis on any increased amount of crimes or sex crimes it's just plain wrong... those poor women forced to make those movies for money...tsk tsk. And not to mention the men who are forced to maintain an erection for hours on end to get paid to do that type of work. Should be illegal I tell you!
But on the other hand if I want to tell my kids to out and kick the crap out of the other kids playing baseball its OK. It's OK to get my kids self esteem screwed into the ground because they didn't meet my expectation for how well they should have hit that ball, how they blundered that play, what a crap head they are for not catching that fly ball.
I wonder whats worse...some second hand smoke or being belittled all the time and just not ever being good enough in your parents eyes... | |
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| New bans being considered in Wa State
Posted: 7/5/2008 2:58:44 PM | smoking in a car with a minir can also get you jailed for child abuse from what I am hearing. I do not smoke but have in the past. Before I quit I refused to smoke around a non-smoker no matter the age, and only smoked outside even when at my own house. But I also grew up in a house of a smoker and was in the car, house, even grocery stores around second hand smoke and I am still alive and well at 50. Do we really know the truth about any health issue? My friend died from lung cancer and never smoked even 1 cigarette in her life. I'm in the dark, it all boils down to respect.  | |
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| New bans being considered in Wa State
Posted: 8/5/2008 9:29:49 PM | | if the state wants to sell cigarettes for the mass funds gererated from them then they should be the ones to pay for any harm that is caused from smoking them. just think about this!! they sue the the tabacco companies for billions of dollars because of the alleged health care cost to the state. then they welcome the companies with open arms to sell their products in this state with the state of washington seals on them. now think of this. you have a product that you want to sell in the state of washington but the state says it is a health risk so you can't sell it in the state of washington. why is that FAIR when the state of washington really cares more about their people than their money we would have a smoke free state. then all the complainers on here would cry because the state wants more tax that would hit their pocket books. | |
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| New bans being considered in Wa State
Posted: 8/6/2008 9:09:24 AM | First off, I'm independent and not a native although have lived here longer then most posters have been alive.
Washington is a State run by Democrats. Democrats are socialists. They love big government and high taxes until Government keeps ALL our money...not just the half they currently take. Barrack has promised to raise taxes people are all over it. It makes me laugh because some people THINK he doesn't mean on them...only the rich? I guess that's ONE way for people to find out they must have been rich all along and didn't know it.
Having said that, children should not be subjected to second hand smoke. The water bottle issue is a non-issue to me, but so be it. | |
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| New bans being considered in Wa State
Posted: 8/8/2008 9:40:46 AM | This is leading to a Political debate.. 
I am more of a Libertarian by nature and believe that people have the right to do whatever they want, within limits of not impacting others freedoms..
Smoking should NOT be banned in Private establishments (I do not smoke), as the Private owners can choose how they want to do business. Those not interested in going to the establishment have the freedom not to go.
Drug laws that put people in prison for private use, is taxing on our economy, prisons and promotes the illegal behavior that causes the Black market behavior, similar to what occurred during the Prohibition. (Never smoked a joint or did any illegal drug)
There is more to this, but the idea of "bans" without clear justification of the specific rights that are blocked by the implication of the ban make me cringe.
What rights are being infringed by the use of Plastic/Paper bags in stores?.
If it TRULY was due to issues with the environment, then it would be up to the stores to define the way bags are managed and charged.
Government intervention in things that should be specific to the business makes me uncomfortable. | |
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| New bans being considered in Wa State
Posted: 8/21/2008 9:19:09 AM | Just a little clarification on some of the previous posts:
1) Washington is considered a conservative I.E. republican state regardless of who has the numbers in congress or is governor; just like Oregon is a liberal I.E. democrat state.
2) CPS/DCS does indeed levy consequences for parents/guardians that smoke to those that come under their view. This is the #1 target for the state's current head of CPS. If you are investigated by CPS and you smoke, in some instances (depending on the focus of the regional CPS authority where you live) your child COULD be taken into "protective custody." If you live in one of those unfortunate regions, like Southwest Washingon, you will not get your child back until you can prove you have stopped smoking (smoking only "outside" is insufficient). There are exceptions of course (like money, or "knowing" people).
3) The main reason given for the smoking-in-public ban was to "protect the general health", and for bars it was to "protect the right to health for workers subjected to second hand smoke."
And yes, many states are working on legislation to ban smoking in public. Several municipalities have banned smoking on the sidewalk, streets, or parks. There have been lawsuits regarding someone while in their yard getting secondhand smoke from passersby. And some municipalities have unsuccessfully tried to ban smoking everywhere open to the air, allowing it only in your own home/barn/shed and that it is on property that you own (not rent/occupy).
4) Yes, tobacco (and gasoline) taxes generate revenue for the state. Last time I checked (last year), Washinton state had the highest taxation rate for those two items of any state in the country (thats why they cost so much more here).
BTW, the seal on a pack of cigarettes is not a state approval of smoking, it is the states issuance from the U.S. "Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives," in order to show that it has been taxed and therefore available for legal sale. That is why some cigarettes available on indian land, some military installations, internet, etc. are so cheap, as they come without that official seal and hence have not had that level of taxation. Add sales tax onto a pack of cigarettes and you get double taxation! (actually its legal because they are two different kinds of taxation)
Also, the STATE does not sell the cigarettes. Retailers buy them from distributors who buy them from wholesalers or from the manufacturers themselves. The state only taxes and regulates the sale of tobacco. | |
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| New bans being considered in Wa State
Posted: 8/21/2008 10:02:54 AM | Now for my opinion (I'm not happy about these, but I think they're better than the proposed/current bans/laws):
1) Banning bottled water is just overreacting, why not just charge a recycling fee like Oregon does on bottles and cans? And by the same token, do the same for plastic/paper bags.
2) Smoking in the car, should not be its own separate offence, it is already covered by the "distracted driving" offence (such as reading, watching T.V., putting on makeup, or eating while driving.) And that is a secondary offence, as far as I know. They can still pull you over for Reckless Driving, however.
3) I can see banning smoking in family restaurants and public buildings, and even within 25 feet of a public building or business. But banning smoking in a +21 establishment (such as a bar) where children are not allowed, goes too far for me.
4) I question the statistics on deaths attributed to second-hand smoke. The figures are way to high to make sense. I am sure that some of those deaths are directly attributed to second-hand smoke and for most it was a contributing factor; but to attribute that many died solely due to second hand smoke? Get real! If that were true, given the demographic of smokers , population, birth, and death rates over the last 300 years, there wouldn't be enough population left to run the government, let alone businesses and farms, etc.!
Unless, of course they are saying that pre-modern tobacco products were much healthier a century ago!  Ever smoke an unfiltered cigarette? You can't tell me they are less damaging and keep a straight face.
5) As for the Personal Rights or Personal Property vs. Childrens' Rights vs. Public Safety vs. Actions That Can Endanger Others...
Honestly, I don't know which way to turn. There are good philosophical arguements on all sides, there are Constitutional rights, there are financial liabilitiy arguements, costs to the state/insurance companies/health care systems, and yes, there are environmental issues as well.
All I will say is this: as far as the "Actions That Endanger Others", I only wish that our political leaders could be held to THAT standard. !!!!! : D | |
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