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| Proof of Consumer-Side Economics!
Posted: 6/26/2008 9:44:02 AM |
the subprime market was developed and SOLD to people who were less than credit-worthy, e.g. stated income, interest-only, balloons, etc.
There are no subprime stated income loans. You could never qualify for a stated loan if you had "subprime" credit.
on promises that the rising value of homes would enable them to refinance down the road.
They weren't empty promises they were stupid gambles and assumptions on the lenders parts. The bank loses, too, when they loan 125% of a property's value with the assumption that the value will equalize the equity, only to find out that they, too, are "upside down" on their investment.
It was basically a scam...........go ahead and blame the victims, but it was basically a scam.
How, exactly, was it a scam, and how is anyone who voluntarily enters into an agreement that is exactly as they agreed to a "victim?" | |
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| Proof of Consumer-Side Economics!
Posted: 6/26/2008 10:01:21 AM |
oddandy, on 3 houses we got some kind of "good faith" or disclosure statement in advance, its been a while, lets see, we signed the P&S agreement, application, etc. but got a mountain of agreements to sign at closing that we'd never previously seen.......thats how they do it in Oregon, i dont know what they do anywhere else.
You signed a bunch of stuff at closing you'd already signed during the initial application (this is the law, and during the REGULAR audits of mortgage companies and banks they'll get caught if there's not both sets in the file) as well as new docs. OF COURSE you never signed the NOTE, the WARRANTY DEED transferring title, etc before closing...you can't sign those things if the loan doesn't close...most of what you're signing at closing is title-related. The note repeats everything you've already signed (and should already have a copy of) only BIGGER, plus there's numerous pages re-stating if there is or isn't a pre-pay penalty, etc. It's impossible to hide any of these things, only way is to have a closer that doesn't speak and a borrower that signs without looking and doesn't ask why the closer isn't saying anything.
My point was that the banks pushed those subprime products to expand the mortgages they could write and the brokers SOLD them.
Period.
I guess I don't understand your point, then.. Like I said, the banks are the manufacturer and brokers are the Sam's Club of lending, while Countrywide, your local credit union, etc, are the retail outlets.
Between slick brokers making it all pencil out and signing docs you really do not see until closing, I cannot imagine how most people could see their way to knowing all the risks.
Because none of the docs you don't see until closing have anything whatsoever to do with the "risks," they're all related to transfer of title. None, that is, except for the ones that re-iterate in big, bold letters that which you HAVE already seen and signed (and which wasn't binding when you first signed it, anyway.)
Look, there's no way that anyone could NOT know what they were getting into when they made the agreement. Like I said, even if the broker/closer tries to lie to the person verbally, the paperwork doesn't lie, and the government designed it all to be VERY obvious (like I said, top 1/3 of the page in all bold letters...)
If people with marginal incomes found they could "qualify" for a home, a dream they never thought they could afford before, the onus to me is on the lender to make the distinctions and the broker to be honest with them.
I agree. See above. | |
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| Proof of Consumer-Side Economics!
Posted: 6/26/2008 11:55:23 AM | | Wow, Odd Andy! thank you for all the information you provided, I've certainly learned alot. Out here in California, the sub prime loans have created a huge mess, and I think it will take years to straighten out. | |
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| Proof of Consumer-Side Economics!
Posted: 6/26/2008 2:02:41 PM | ^^^ Yeah I feel really bad for the homeowners as well as the brokers and bankers in CA and FL. The last company I worked for actually moved to FL in January thinking there was more money to be made down there. They just went under last month. It's hard to do anything in either state NOW because values have fallen so dramatically that lenders are afraid they'll fall even more so they're really sketchy about approving anything.
I thank God I stayed here in TN, where the values are far lower but stable. | |
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| Proof of Consumer-Side Economics!
Posted: 7/6/2008 12:38:54 PM | Sorry beautiful lady but the proof is solid and horrific it is the goverment who did it all
Bush & cheney... and a few other criminal leaders tied to the bank (rothchilds=fed. reserve) go to
http://www.worldreports.org/ ....click archives (1 weak old)...
Its easy to read this if you start after wantagate section...
they also made the housing collapse....why...
look at all of the Moneymasters Video on google!
all of us need to take action and do our part!
and remember the voting machines are all bogus totally false, with no paper trail to prove
playing with the numbers! the 2 OWNERS are Bush buddies... | |
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| Proof of Consumer-Side Economics!
Posted: 7/8/2008 11:22:24 PM | First, economics is not exact science where economic thoeries can be empircally proven 100%. Second, economics is study of human nature, and humans will try to economic phyiscs of lending, and interest rates. Third, Unions are not all evil money grabbing thugs made out to extort a company, and some Unions are becoming flexible providing a safety net in terms of the flexible job market providing a pooling of workers to setup safety in certian sectors were work is done on freelance basis. Forth, free market in classical sense is only practiced in Africa.
The auto industry in north america did not practice perfection in manufacturing like the Japanese did. The north american grunt put engine togther the tolerances of 4 to 5 mm was acceptible in fit, and torque tolerance ratios off are acceptable. Japanese industrail culture would hold up assembly line to make sure that Fender fitted 100% with less than <1mm GAP. The engine on hondas were bored to perfection and the North American grunts just accept it and passed along the assembly line. Japanese autoworkers were probadly more cradle to grave nursed than UAW was with thier own memebers. Key is precison and low tolerance for errors in manufacturing, but it require cultural change of thinkin. Toyotas built in North America are still lower quality than ones built in Japan.
The story is Unions problem was not that they demanded too high of wages it was not demanding the perfection from its workers that the Japanese unionms demand of thiers , and GM middle management was only looking to make quartery numbers, and not not increasing quality. Quaility and Value with the right price is what Japan did and America could not. Pride in ones work matters with durable items that something American and Canadian never demanded. Tarriffs are good against perdatoral economies like China, and Japan but over time the west needs to work up the economic food chain of production. Flexible job markets need stronger safety nets to allow for retraining of workers something Demark does, but Americans will not pay 50% tax rates for it, and America will be 21st century France . | |
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