| Do you know how to argue?
Posted: 6/14/2008 4:56:28 AM | Good Topic kthyg! LOL! and as we can see from less than 1 page of responses, we already have an "argument" about what arguing IS!
"Argument" in the field of sciences (including logic and psychology) is simply the process whereby 2 or more differing viewpoints are presented, given supporting "argument" (I can't think of a synonym)...defense, no, that's not right; it would indicate that you've already admitted you were wrong, so let's go with supporting "argument"..... You present your viewpoint, give supporting fact, theory, reasons, etc (all arguments) for the purpose of persuading others involved in the conflict to move more in your direction. LOL! I know....this is freshman college stuff, but either people forget....or they always did believe that education was totally not effectual in the "real world" (so wrong)
"Argument" to those who reject logic have .....emotion only. The will never be capable of employing that which they lack, therefore ALL "argument" will be seen as an emotional battlefield in which they are fighting for their lives.
Someone once wrote "Hell is the impossibility of reason". I concur. Reason (logic) and emotion, like oil and water...do not mix easily. It takes a LOT of shaking, and as you've seen here already, the "emotionals" are "outta there" as soon as any shaking starts to take place.
Those who think and behave logically (scientifically) already know (they remember those freshman college classes LOL!) that even the most effective argument (debate) is likely at best to only move those with a dissenting position a fraction of the way in your direction. It is unreasonable to believe that anyone with an opposing viewpoint is going to "see the light"! Afterall, we're only seeking to resolve conflict....not make converts. Rune3...post #3 I believe said it quite well.
Seek to understand... Most argument is due to miscommunication.
"Effective arguing" is not only necessary to resolve conflict, (and ALL relationships do have them), but is well documented for having the health benefit of lowering stress. Ineffective arguing (emotional rants) have the opposite effect. | |
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| Do you know how to argue?
Posted: 6/14/2008 5:34:05 AM | I don't like to argue...I know that sometimes you do though. I actually let the other person do the screaming, etc. I watched my parents go through their divorce arguing with each other...and decided that wouldn't be me.
The last time I had an argument, a full on, screaming one...I ended up leaving him. He decided that his "arguing" with me loudly was ok...and might have been...if I hadn't caught him in a huge lie.
Some people argue for the sake of arguing...that's great for them. I believe in discussing something before it gets to that point. And no...if name-calling starts, even if we're discussing something, I'm out. That's when you usually find out someone's true feelings...people say more honest things in the heat of a moment. I don't think I need to do that and don't think I need to say things I'll regret later. It's immature and hurtful and doesn't fix what's wrong to begin with.
Just my 10 cents (inflation!!!) | |
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| Do you know how to argue?
Posted: 6/14/2008 5:47:44 AM |
Many of the people on this thread don't seem to know the difference between arguing and fighting, and use the terms interchangeably.
One of the definitions of argue is "to engage in a quarrel", and that's how many people view it. Many people perceive it to be a negative, irrational discussion. When my ex "argued", she wasn't interested in resolving anything, it was simply a power trip. She wanted me to tell her she was right... what actually was right was the furthest thing from her mind. That was clearly obvious by how many times the subject would change whenever she felt she couldn't continue to defend whatever she was talking about.
Yes, you are arguing your point when you are having calm, rational discussions. However, arguing and fighting are interchangeable, and that's why most people (myself included) view arguments as negative discussions. I wasn't usually "fighting" because I was simply trying to be heard. My all time favourite that my ex said to me during one of our arguments; "Why do you always think you need to be understood?" | |
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| Do you know how to argue?
Posted: 6/14/2008 5:58:38 AM | First you argue....then you cool down and discuss.....It 's hard to have a discussion when strong emotions are involved. Ergo the argument...
Solarpanel...I think I was married to a relative of your wife. Every time something needed to be discussed he would do one of 2 things.....walk out and tell me I was stupid and he wasnt listening ,if I didnt like it I could leave....or blow up and say he has spoken and thats it......usually the former though
If people truly communicate there should be no arguments in a relationship...things should be dicussed and ironed out before they come to that point...unfortunately too many relationships dont work that way.......too many people are "right fighters".
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| Do you know how to argue?
Posted: 6/14/2008 6:09:36 AM | | The worst thing you can possibly do when arguing is to respond when you are angry. You have to really push my buttons for me to go for the jugular and a few people have suceeded in do so (mostly family members). However, when I meet someone who likes to argue to the point of hurt, I do tend to shut down and walk away, I'm not going to get involved with someone who forgets who I really am just because they are mad at me. Words hurt, people tend to forget that when they are screaming at you. | |
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| Do you know how to argue?
Posted: 6/14/2008 6:33:35 AM | I kinda like to debate but my most of my exs have earned to avoid debating with me. I don't get all mad and emotional but the problem, in their eyes was:
1. I only chose to engage in debates I knew that I would win.
2. If I thought that I couldn't win on that issue; I would dodge the debate or lay down a massive smokescreen of BS.
Eventually, one of my exs learnt to beat me at my own game. I felt like a proud father *LOL* | |
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| Do you know how to argue?
Posted: 6/14/2008 6:35:20 AM | | I'm quite prepared to have a discussion over an issue, but when the other person starts raising their voice I'm outa there. Voice raisers are loud and can become aggressive and I don't waste my energy on these types of people. I would sooner walk off than have a face off. | |
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| Do you know how to argue?
Posted: 6/14/2008 7:02:27 AM | Laughing we always seem to agree. How come you don't live in Washington? | |
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| Do you know how to argue?
Posted: 6/14/2008 7:05:29 AM | Rune said it for me in post #3.
My pet peeve are people who say "no comebacks". You have, according to them, one and only one opportunity to say your piece, and after that it is a done deal, you can't have an additional thought or a "what if" you want to explore. That so doesn't work for me.
I'm a good thinker, but a slow one, lol. Sometimes a thorny problem needs more than one sitting to get it to be a win-win for both people. | |
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| Do you know how to argue?
Posted: 6/14/2008 7:08:14 AM | Not sure how this posting works but here's my 2 cents anyway:
Perhaps with arguing , the ‘contestants’ have to be able to take a position.
Example one: my husband and I never argued. Never. We had children and a mortgage etc but never raised our voices. We split quietly but very shortly afterwards the management of access/finance etc became the most vitriolic and horrific experience of my life. Looking back, we both married for convenience and we were both too afraid to say anything negative because the differences between us were so huge. So we never established rules for disagreement or developed a language for disagreement.
Example two – this chappie was habitually late. I am a stickler for time. So I explained this to him and that his behaviour caused me distress. We agreed on some limits. If he was over these limits then I considered myself stood up & free to go. It didn’t stop the fights – I have left restaurants or turned my phone off etc but also if the situation was important to me, I’d pick him up or have some alternate strategy. The man himself, I liked. His behaviour finally drove us apart. Although we had huge fights and we both realized the situation was irresolvable and broke up, if I see him down the street I can still hug him and hope that life treats him well.
Life brings issues. Issues mean taking a stance. Stances will vary. Disagreement is part of being in a relationship – be it at work or romantic. Arguing – call it what you will- is part of life and I am so for it. Without it – argh! Like bedding a dead fish | |
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| Do you know how to argue?
Posted: 6/14/2008 7:10:17 AM | If there is one thing in life that I avoid the most - it is an arguement I find them frustrating in the fact that both parties are never listening and nothing is ever resolved.
I do not mind a heated discussion that involves debating from both parties - without emotion!
When presented with an argumentive situation - my instinct is to be extremely quiet - listen - walk away - think - then put my thoughts to paper. I can write what I wish to respond with better than if I had to give response on the spot. If faced with a situation that is out of control (massively heated arguement) I now turn and walk away. No one listens with angry ears anyway. | |
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| Do you know how to argue?
Posted: 6/14/2008 9:55:28 AM | Arguing and fighting are pointless. Discuss your differences, and move on, even if it come to agree to disagree. There is one thing I cannot stand from people is when they tell me my "opinion" is wrong. No opinion is wrong and everybody has a right to disagree with mine because it is an opinion. People get so upset when somebody doesn't agree with them and it is for absolutely no reason.
Physical fighting no matter who is doing it, male vs. male or vs. female is totally pointless and solves absolutely nothing. I am a younger brother and he always used to threaten to kick my ars. I would say "go ahead we both know you can do it, but what does it prove?" That would piss him off even more, but again this is my opinion it solves nothing. | |
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| Do you know how to argue?
Posted: 6/14/2008 12:49:29 PM | 1. Do you know how to effectivly argue? Yes.
2. Do you have "rules" for arguing in your relationship (ie no name calling, no insults, ect..)
Very often, the argument is not about what is really bothering someone. I usually ask if there is anything else they want to bring up, especially if the degree of how upset they are seems out of proportion to the issue they are presenting with.
3. Do you talk about these things in a relationship before it gets crazy? Talk about what things, rules of engagement? Sort of like the Geneva convention of relationship war?
Unfortunately, no. I don't start talking about arguing unless it comes up. I feel like it's just going to start an argument about arguing, and who wants to do that when things are going fine? | |
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| Do you know how to argue?
Posted: 6/14/2008 12:50:19 PM | | I guess we also have a hard time defining what a "relationship" is. I KNOW when I'm in a relationship when we've had and have survived our first argument. I would define a "relationship" argument as one where someone's feeling have been hurt and they are expressing the hurt in inappropriate ways. A heated discussion is one where these same hurts are being expressed in appropriate ways. When I am the hurt party I express my hurt quickly before it turns into full-blown anger or later down the road (heavenforbid) rage. I use "I" statements and link them to my partner's behaviour with the view to find the true intention behind the behaviour. I keep an open mind and give my partner the benefit of the doubt the first and sometimes even the second time around. If the same pattern repeats itself a third time....counselling and/or breaking up is in order. I've been a high school teacher of adolescent girls who are fifteen years of age for over a decade and I have learned how to argue effectively, yes. Oops, did I mention that I am Irish? Act. | |
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| Do you know how to argue?
Posted: 6/14/2008 12:56:12 PM | Argue is what lawyers are paid to do in court "argue" their side of a case.
Not that it can't be done outside the courtroom, I'm often the one to refuse to participate unless it's going to be productive, have a "point" or an end in sight. If there's no decision to be made or nothing comes out of it, then it's just arguing for the sake of arguing. That is totally non-productive IMO. I'll opt out on that.  | |
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| Do you know how to argue?
Posted: 6/14/2008 12:56:48 PM | people hurl insults out of their own hurt. Arguing solves nothing but ends up in unbalance and power struggles. Get to the core root cause and usually it comes down to plain ole fear on each party...
coming to equal agreeable compromise it better then arguing. Getting onto other topics during a discussion is an element of underlaying built up issues. | |
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| Do you know how to argue?
Posted: 6/14/2008 1:15:03 PM | 1. Listen
2. Present your viewpoint
3. Have your viewpoint shot to h3ll with logical arguments
4. Conceed that you are wrong and that the woman is always right
5. Have make up sex! | |
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| Do you know how to argue?
Posted: 6/14/2008 1:31:16 PM | Argument, in standard parlance, is never going to be effective because it is adversarial in nature. This is my side and I want to convince you of my side rather than wanting to listen to and understand the other party. In most cases, the argument quickly strays from topic and often equally quickly devolves into a fight.
If people would take responsibility for their own feelings and observe the rules of debate, preparing by finding out all of the reasons that the "opposition" will use to support his position, arguments would be fewer and further between because the individual would understand that someone that does not agree with him is not a psychotic idiot for that failure to agree. People that avoid arguments may also recognize that it is not necessary for the other party to agree, but to respect the other person's opinions and feelings.
I grew up with arguing and fighting about stupid bullshit and there was constant arguing and fighting in my marriage and I really do not want to ever again be with someone that is interested in fighting rather than rational discussion as a means of solving disputes and disagreements. You can still have the make-up sex without all of the other b.s. | |
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| Do you know how to argue?
Posted: 6/14/2008 2:41:23 PM | Wow! Reading all these replies tells me I am one f-ed up, feisty, imperfect individual, cause when I get rip roaring mad--and I do--I don't calmly and sweetly sit 'em down and say:
"Now baby, you've done gone and spun me into a new dimension of pissed off I've never been in before and I want you to sit here and listen to me tell you how you did it, how you best not do it again, what steps you should take to prevent you from ever doing it again, how stunned I am that you did it to begin with and I just wanna bytch slap you... but instead, I'll just sit here and calmly explain to you that you did indeed screw up when you chose to be a lil stupid shyt that functioned without his head or heart attached--and remember to say it in such a way that he won't feel so dang attacked--so, listen up baby darlin while I explain at all for ya--lemme grab my kig gloves and just rise above, you stupid shyt!---oops, did I say that out loud?"
*counts to 500....la de da de da...I don't see you!*
Nope, my imperfect self will tell it! Ain't y'all heard that repressed anger causes heart attacks and lack of sex?  | |
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| Do you know how to argue?
Posted: 6/14/2008 2:45:33 PM | I am not the fighting arguing yelling type, but I will not hold back on my feelings as well. One thing that a lot of people have problems with me is how much I do speak my mind. I would rather tell you like it is than dance around what I am really wanting to tell you, and if you can't handle it, you at least know where you stand.
There is just no reason the go about it in a yelling screaming manner. | |
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| Do you know how to argue?
Posted: 6/14/2008 2:50:43 PM | most people are not logical. illogical people do not argue well. most people do not argue well.
ive never really had a decent argument with a female before. they always turn to insults or throwing things. something about cold hard logic thrown in their face really makes them angry. i cant even count how many different things ive had thrown at me. thats why id rather fight over texts messages, no chance of personal injury lawsuits | |
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| Do you know how to argue?
Posted: 6/14/2008 2:52:49 PM | | lol, ive been told I like to argue and I tent to agree.. but its not because I like to make people angry its because I like to see other peoples points of view and they either get offensive or they just get to the point its offensive to listen anymore. | |
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| Do you know how to argue?
Posted: 6/14/2008 3:50:29 PM | This is something I've been working on for the past 10 years. I have had marital counseling about 10 years ago, to be more efficient in understanding where my mate is coming from and how they feel, and Yes, I have certain rules. Sometimes I get weak and don't follow them, and other times I do my best to look out for the the best interests of myself, and the other person or persons involved... I have long since divorced, but still use the principals in my daily life, be it with a mate, someone I am in business with, customers and clients, friends, family, and even children...
Rule 1) NO Name calling!
Rule 2) NO Cursing or profanity!
Rule 3) When the voices are to the shouting level, take a breather until both parties can think more effectively.
Rule 4) THINK about what you are about to say before you say it. Some things can be out of spite, and you can NEVER take something back once it has been said, no matter how much you apologize.
Rule 5) If the argument is ongoing and ongoing, walk away since nothing is getting accomplished, and come back to it when tempers cool off.
Rule 6) Try to understand where the other person is coming from, and how what you are doing/saying is making them feel.
We are emotional creatures by nature, and women feel more emotion than men do. I'm not saying that men don't have feelings, they just usually keep them at a deeper level and don't express them as easily as women...
Sometimes counseling can be a good thing. If you are of the type that has a harder time communicating your feelings or thoughts effectively, one on one counseling can often help things down the line...
CowTrucker
(What's left of...) Chapman, Kansas | |
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| Do you know how to argue?
Posted: 6/14/2008 4:49:30 PM | I hate to argue and I hate confrontation. I'm better at confrontation than arguing (confrontation is a big part of my job, and it's way easier on the job than in my personal life, where there's emotional investment).
If there's a problem that needs to be discussed, I want to discuss it rationally and logically without raised voices, without insults, without tears and definately without profanity. And usually, if there's something that's bothering me, I've already analyzed it and worked it over in my brain for a good long time and picked it apart and looked at it from all angles before I even bring it up. Once I bring it up, I want it resolved. And once it's resolved, it's not a topic for future discussion, I don't want to rehash it.
Never say something in anger. Anger solves nothing. You can't take back words. What you said is out there forever.
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