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Posted: 8/25/2008 11:21:08 PM |
Let us not wallow in the valley of despair, I say to you today, my friends.
And so even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream.
I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal."
I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia, the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.
I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a state sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice.
I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.
End Government Sponsored Racism!!!!! | |
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Posted: 8/25/2008 11:50:06 PM |
When she found this out she told him where to stuff it and rightly so .I remember a time when Black people had pride and high in morals
i assume that most people of minorities would feel the same way today if they found out they were given their job for this reason. and for someone who is talking about ending racism the latter part of this comment is VERY racist. Who are you to say that an entire race has no morals?
..Go back and look at older black movies and see how they acted and did things..they got what they had on merit and would not except or expect anything less
Are you kidding?? It was not that long ago that Black people were not allowed to have the same jobs as white people (not to mention ride at the front of the bus or drink from the same water fountains.) Maybe you need to stop watching so many movies and pick up a history book, educate yourself before you make such ridiculous statements.
Let the government sponsored racism finally die, so that Martin Luther King's Legacy can finally LIVE!!!
I HIGHLY doubt that MLK would agree with ANYTHING the last poster said.
MLK’s speech was not about government sponsored racism it was about creating equality for black people so that they were given the same rights and opportunities as white people! To use his speech as an argument to support your theory that AA is government sponsored racism is disgusting. | |
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Posted: 8/26/2008 12:03:33 AM |
I don't know what is so complicated ......
If the government is in the business of promoting one race over another , that is government sponsored racism .
You can dress is up any way you like , but , it does not change the very simple truth
can you provide some proof to this please (since it is such a simple concept there must be plenty) | |
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Posted: 8/26/2008 12:34:22 AM |
Federal statistics for 2003-04 show that the representation of women, aboriginal people and the disabled in the government was actually greater than in the Canadian workforce as a whole. But the percentage of visible minorities -- 7.8% -- was less than the 10.4% in the overall workforce.
so basically white males are(or were, i don't know what the stats are today) still getting majority of the jobs even though minortities make up more of the population as a whole....interesting!
And I loved that you used someone's blog as an example of a credible reference | |
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Posted: 8/26/2008 1:06:25 AM |
Many of the visible minorities in Canada are new arrivals . They are foreign born.
Surely that should cause you some thought ?!
That does not change the fact that white males make up less of the population and obtain more of the jobs. What does it matter if many of the visible minorities in canada are foreign born, they still have eligibility to work.
Deal with the content .
lol, is that not why we are still having this discussion? | |
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Posted: 8/26/2008 1:38:17 AM |
This is insanity.
Are you saying that as soon as a group arrives on these shores they should be equally represented in government jobs ? Ummmm ....language ? custom? education?
Would you like to think that one through ?
nope....sure didn't say that. When did we start talking SPECIFICALLY about government jobs? i do believe that immagrants, once they have abtained rights to work in Canada, should be eligible for any job any other Canadian is eligible for.
Do you think that white males have contributed much to Canada ?
I think they have and then some !
Why should they be second class citizens?
sure. So have many peoples of minorities. When have white males become second class citizens?
If I ever saw a " white women need not apply " .. I would have guts to oppose that as discrimination !
so would I. i would also have the guts to say it was discrimination if it were someone of color, or with a disability. What exactly is your point? | |
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Posted: 8/26/2008 3:17:43 AM |
And I loved that you used someone's blog as an example of a credible reference
Look at the whole article on the newspapers site. You will find they have actually left jobs vacant. Not because they did not have enough qualified applicants but because some of those applicants were white male. So either we are under served due to lack of qualified minorities or we can just start giving jobs to lesser or unqualified minorities to reach targets and quotas...... You don't foresee problems with service if the latter is used?
nope....sure didn't say that. When did we start talking SPECIFICALLY about government jobs? i do believe that immagrants, once they have abtained rights to work in Canada, should be eligible for any job any other Canadian is eligible for.
If they are qualified and if they speak the commonly used official language of the area clearly then yes. Look at Canada's immigration information. A majority of new immigrants coming here are from agrarian cultures without much formal education, or an education from institutions with standards so divergent from our own that the degrees are not recognized. Yet these people without fail tend to congregate in large urban centers (a tad hard to farm and continue with what you know in that environment) and also in groups of others of the same ethnicity (can you say "continued tribalism).
Do you think that white males have contributed much to Canada ?
I think they have and then some !
Why should they be second class citizens?
Okay, who cares what white males have contributed. Unless YOU are the specific white male that contributed X to our society why does race enter in here? You don't get laurels for someone else's achievement because you share a skin tone.
But sorry Sara males specifically white males to a greater degree became second class citizens the second we allowed legal discrimination against them based on gender, race or both. It is no different than when our neighbours to the south allowed legal discrimination against their black population. Y'all recall the adage that two wrongs do not make a right?
Obsidian I have read the study you posted and will get back with regards to that when I have more time. Interesting and not to goofy for a social "science" study. I'm still looking for replication of results though. | |
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Posted: 8/26/2008 9:29:02 AM |
I work in social services, I encounter A LOT of kids who have names spelled incorrectly (terribly incorrectly) because of the education level of their parents. Is this true for every child with a misspelled or unique name? Of course not. The original post I quoted said that children with unique names generally don’t fit in at school and are less successful. I was merely trying to point out that it's not just the name, but where they name came from that adds to their misfortune. As I said before this really has little or nothing to do with AA.
How does one actually misspell a name when naming their child? Which is correct, Bryan or Brian? It is up to the parent to name the child according to their belief, culture, ethnicity or whatever drug they choose to smoke. Yes, there are some ridiculous sounding names, but we should also not judge a book by its cover.
I understand the fact “unique” names are scrutinized more than the average name typically held by a white person. That is what it boils down to. If the name doesn’t sound like it belongs to a white person or if it is too ethnic, the person is sometimes discriminated against or receives the scrutiny. I realize this is a fact that is based on prejudices and bigotry and has a lot to do with affirmative action.
I do not agree as was stated in the previous post:
Unusual names are generally a reflection on the parents level of intellect. I worked with a young girl whose name was Caitlyn, except her mother spelled it Catlian. Do you think her mother did this so Caitlyn would have a “unique” way of spelling her name? Doubtful. Kids with “unique” names usually come from homes with parents that have no money and are poorly educated. Poorly educated parents generally produce poorly educated children.
Names that seem unusual to some may be a reflection of a parents culture, religious beliefs etc. To think an unusual name comes from parents with no money or are poorly educated, as was stated, shows some degree of ignorance or ambivalences to the fact, not every one has a white name or common name and they should not have to in order to advance in our society. | |
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Posted: 8/26/2008 9:59:13 AM | How does one actually misspell a name when naming their child? Which is correct, Bryan or Brian? It is up to the parent to name the child according to their belief, culture, ethnicity or whatever drug they choose to smoke. Yes, there are some ridiculous sounding names, but we should also not judge a book by its cover.
well lets look at my example. Caitlyn's name is pronounced just like this. Although her mother spelled it CAT-LI-AN. I am not talking about the possible ways of spelling a name. Bryan and Brian are still pronounced correctly. Did you really think that this was what I was talking about considering my name is SARA and not SARAH?? When the spelling alters the name so much that you cannot properly pronounce it makes it a little more likely that it was a mistake and not a parents attempt to make their child stand out.
I understand the fact “unique” names are scrutinized more than the average name typically held by a white person. That is what it boils down to. If the name doesn’t sound like it belongs to a white person or if it is too ethnic, the person is sometimes discriminated against or receives the scrutiny. I realize this is a fact that is based on prejudices and bigotry and has a lot to do with affirmative action.
This is not at all what I said. Do I think that every child should be named something that sounds white? Absolutely not. Nor do I think that parents who don't give their child a "white" name are poorly educated. Studies have proven that the "unique" spelling of a name generally is due to poorly educated parents. There have also been studies done on the correlation between socioeconomic status and choice of names (misspelled or not.) This is a fact.
Here is where I agree with you. Studies have also been done to challenge weather a name will be a disadvantage to you in the work place. Two identical resumes were given to the same employers, the only difference was the names. One being a ver white sounding name, the other a very black sounding name. The white sounding name got majority of the call backs even though they had identical resumes. Is this right? of course not! So I agree that this kind of discrimination needs to be dealt with! However it does not change the outcome of other studies on names.
Names that seem unusual to some may be a reflection of a parents culture, religious beliefs etc. To think an unusual name comes from parents with no money or are poorly educated, as was stated, shows some degree of ignorance or ambivalences to the fact, not every one has a white name or common name and they should not have to in order to advance in our society.
as i said before I was not speaking of names that are simply outside of my culture, i don;t even need to, there are enough examples inside my own culture that support my argument. | |
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Posted: 8/26/2008 10:21:52 AM | | well I'm typing again to answer you ..I t fails in comparison to the morals over all they had when I was a boy..I didn't say the whole race were that way ..don't pick it a part and read more into what someone says or maybe forgot to say in so many word's ok?I was speaking of that one instance of where a woman wouldn't take the job because of affirmative action ..just answer me this maam.How many today would not think twice of taking affirmative action and there you will have your answer .so don't critize me but do your own research and you will have the answer .i honestly didn't mean the whole of any race for anything and to suggest otherwise is anyway Ludicrous ..sounds to me you just wanna pick a fight.My POINT in case you didnt get it was that a faction of people by giving things out will destroy a person over a period of time because it teaches them no Responsibility and yes can even ruin almost an entire race or group of people ..what ever the race may be | |
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Posted: 8/26/2008 10:29:22 AM | We are in agreement in understanding the study information and names being used as ways of discrimination.
What I do not agree on is parents misspelling there kids names. If that is how THEY choose to spell it, it isn't misspelled, it just isn't how YOU choose to spell it and YOU may not how to pronounce it. Hell half the words in the English language would have to be thrown out on the premise they aren't spelled the way they are pronounced. There maybe instances where people actually did make mistakes and misspell a name when they meant one thing but did another, but that is few and far between I believe. People believe names are unique and try to make them so even by substituting a y for an i. That is there prerogative and I have known people to do such things who are neither poor or uneducated.
I may be making an assumption here, but a social worker often works with the poor and uneducated. It is safe to assume that among these poor and uneducated, some many of them may misspell names. It is even safer to assume that, they do not account for all of the unique or unusual names.
How do you suppose we have Smith, Smythe, John, Jon, Bryan, Brian and so forth? Is is by mispellings somewhere down the line or could it be culture, ethinic, etc. | |
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Posted: 8/26/2008 10:36:51 AM |
End Government Sponsored Racism!!!!!
No problem. Let's also end corporate sponsored racism while we're at it. After all, corporations are legal constructs, which means the public has a right to specify the terms and conditions under which they operate. All businesses have to get a license to do business as well, we can specify the terms and conditions there too.
Question: How will we know when racism has actually ended. That's a party that I want to go to! | |
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Joined: 7/30/2008
Msg: 313 | |
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Posted: 8/26/2008 11:07:39 AM | It’s a privilege to be white, and white people should start admitting it.
I understand how white people think, admitting their privilege is SCARY because it implies that maybe they have got their position unfairly and undeservingly. For white people, growing up, REGARDLESS of there parents’ income, they didn’t EVER have to face people who believed they were less capable because of there race. When they opened up there history books or newspapers, they saw people who looked them achieving great feats, and they were encouraged. Rather than admitting openly that have had MANY advantages, they instead call kids without them “underprivileged” or “disadvantaged.” Perhaps it’s not that we lack advantages, but rather that whites have them in excess but go onto microsoft word and type 'Overprivileged' and just see how quickly the red line shows up.
But despite their privilege, and reading these forums, white people are still afraid. They’re afraid of losing what they have if at some point the economic, political and social systems become more equitable. They’re afraid that non-white people may see through them and notice their hidden racism. And their final fear is this : A world in which non-white people might someday gain the kind of power over whites that whites have long monopolized.
So many whites fear that the result won’t be a system that is more just, but a system in which white people become the minority and could be treated as whites have long treated non-whites. This is perhaps the DEEPEST fear that lives in the heart of whiteness. It is not really a fear of non-white people. It’s a fear of the DEPRAVITY that lives in there own hearts : "Are non-white people capable of doing to us the barbaric things we have done to them ?" | |
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Posted: 8/26/2008 11:19:43 AM | I think Affirmative Action was a good thing in that it raised awareness of society's prejudices. I don't think it was a good thing in that it made an UNEVEN playing field (by giving EXTRA points to minorities and women, they were trying to immediately change the institutional bias against minorities and women; BTW, this is happening right now, for military vets).
I think the IDEAL is to provide an EQUAL playing field, but can this sort of thing be legislated?
The whole point of all of this "equal opportunity" stuff is to NOT exclude anyone from the possibility of a job/career based on anything other than THE PERSON IN FRONT OF YOU. Not "people like them".
So, maybe nine of the top ten golfers of all time are white, but Tiger Woods (who is not white) is perhaps THE best golfer, ever. If the old rules applied (only whites on golf courses), he'd never have gotten the CHANCE to prove he was good. So, maybe the top nine out of ten Green Berets of all time are men, but maybe, just maybe, the BEST Green Beret could be female. Give a female the CHANCE. | |
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Posted: 8/26/2008 12:47:18 PM |
Im Cherokee and white and nobody ever give me any special consideration.but if your white mixed with black that's a whole new ball game..sounds like the real Racist here are Liberal ideas of this nature
Yet in your profile you self identify as a Caucasian male. Those of Native descent can register and indeed get some benefits (at least here in Washington State) . Racism isn't cultivated generally via actions it's a decision that people make. AA doesn't cause racism in people who haven't already made the conscious decision to be racist.
I think Affirmative Action was a good thing in that it raised awareness of society's prejudices. I don't think it was a good thing in that it made an UNEVEN playing field (by giving EXTRA points to minorities and women, they were trying to immediately change the institutional bias against minorities and women; BTW, this is happening right now, for military vets).
I think the IDEAL is to provide an EQUAL playing field, but can this sort of thing be legislated?
The whole point of all of this "equal opportunity" stuff is to NOT exclude anyone from the possibility of a job/career based on anything other than THE PERSON IN FRONT OF YOU. Not "people like them".
So, maybe nine of the top ten golfers of all time are white, but Tiger Woods (who is not white) is perhaps THE best golfer, ever. If the old rules applied (only whites on golf courses), he'd never have gotten the CHANCE to prove he was good. So, maybe the top nine out of ten Green Berets of all time are men, but maybe, just maybe, the BEST Green Beret could be female. Give a female the CHANCE.
Good point..there is not easy way to deal with this but the ignorance being displayed here is laughable. Come on quoting Martin Luther King as though he was some politician is disengenous. The man was assinated decades ago for his belief and you have to wonder what he would have thought about today's America. He would have likely been proud of the success of Obama but he would have looked at the data which show highly disproportionate levels of incarceration, staggering levels of HIV in black men and women, and the results that show black males in some job markets may as well have a felony.
A black man who's been beaten over the head incessantly with yammering about the IQ gap. I'm waiting to see a modicum of intelligence displayed here.
Frankly I'm tired of the threats "this is going to cause racism" . Fine. I'd rather root out those who can't get their mind right. They're the problem..not the solution.
This is not rocket science. There is a problem with race in America and even on a Global scale. Sticking our head into the sand and pretending that the problem will just go away is silly.
Allowing the overrepresentation of a group is like granting monopoly powers to a company. Rarely does anything good come from such actions. I'm waiting to read some good suggestions on how to fix the system that don't center around " I have a Dream" centered platitudes. Idealogy does not trump reality folks. We all dream about an egalitarian society but unless we identify and address the issue that "Dream" will only remain a "Dream"
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Posted: 8/26/2008 1:15:37 PM |
Allowing the overrepresentation of a group is like granting monopoly powers to a company. Rarely does anything good come from such actions. I'm waiting to read some good suggestions on how to fix the system that don't center around " I have a Dream" centered platitudes. Idealogy does not trump reality folks. We all dream about an egalitarian society but unless we identify and address the issue that "Dream" will only remain a "Dream"
But that's the thing. People who find themselves in a privileged position would prefer to go on dreaming than to give up whatever advantages they have for the sake of justice. Even people of good conscience struggle with it, but people who still secretly believe that their advantages came to them on the basis of some ethereal superiority, rather than blind luck, will be adamant. Their racism might still be a secret to themselves, though it will be obvious to anyone who is sensitive to the issue.
MLK's dream will never happen as long as people who secretly or openly disdain the humanity of those who appear to be different. The only way to level the playing field in a situation like that is to spread out the inherent injustice of discrimination evenly.
You don't like the pinch of quotas? Good! Make sure that YOU hire with an eye to diversity. Patronize businesses that are run by people who are diverse. When a white person loses a particular job because of AA, that is a taste of what minority applications deal with when applying for _every_ job.
AA is a lousy solution. But it is better than no solution--unless you prefer riots and assasinations and the endless despair and suffering of your fellow citizens--not to mention the affect those conditions have on your own safety.
So, what more positive approach can we take to eliminate the inequities that remain? | |
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Posted: 8/26/2008 1:43:03 PM |
We are in agreement in understanding the study information and names being used as ways of discrimination.
lets be honest this is the only part of this argument that actually pertains to AA. the rest is simply my observation on things I have studied and read in books. I don't think we will ever agree on that topic which is fine considering it is irrelevant to this topic anyway. We are in agreement that a name can hinder and cause discrimination to a person the rest lets agree to disagree before we get repremanded for being off topic.
SGRMBOY,
i have no intrest in picking a fight with you. This is a debate, you post your opinion so that others can challenge it. i challenged you. i believe the only one who made things personal was YOU when you decided to message me rather than keep it to the forums. If you cannot debate without getting personal or taking my post personally please ignore them completley.
So many whites fear that the result won’t be a system that is more just, but a system in which white people become the minority and could be treated as whites have long treated non-whites. This is perhaps the DEEPEST fear that lives in the heart of whiteness. It is not really a fear of non-white people. It’s a fear of the DEPRAVITY that lives in there own hearts : "Are non-white people capable of doing to us the barbaric things we have done to them ?"
i have attempted to make this argument MANY times (and I am white) | |
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| Affirmative Action Outdated?
Posted: 8/26/2008 1:53:12 PM |
lets be honest this is the only part of this argument that actually pertains to AA. the rest is simply my observation on things I have studied and read in books. I don't think we will ever agree on that topic which is fine considering it is irrelevant to this topic anyway. We are in agreement that a name can hinder and cause discrimination to a person the rest lets agree to disagree before we get repremanded for being off topic.
All of it is on topic. I understand if you can't see it because of the blinders. You made a statement that catagorized people and their parents as poor and uneducated on the basis of their name being unusual. That is a very prejudiced thing to do and prejudiced thinking such as this is one of the many reasons affirmative action was ever put in place, to help curtail discriminatroy practices. | |
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Posted: 8/26/2008 2:11:42 PM | All of it is on topic. I understand if you can't see it because of the blinders. You made a statement that catagorized people and their parents as poor and uneducated on the basis of their name being unusual. That is a very prejudiced thing to do and prejudiced thinking such as this is one of the many reasons affirmative action was ever put in place, to help curtail discriminatroy practices.
if you have read any of my other posts you would see that my arguments are in the same direction as yours. Please do not incinuate that I am discriminating. you may think it is prejudiced thinking but it is really reality. Weather you want to admit it or not i have posted my opinion based of FACTS not just "what if they wanted to be different." Reality is reality weather it is kind or not. Do i look down on those who come from these backgrounds? no, of course not, in fact i work very hard to help them the best that I can and have much compassion for them. Did I say that EVERY child whose name has horrendous spelling has poorly educated parents? No. I like you want nothing more than to curtail discriminatory practices.
I also find it a little alarming that you have put so much attention into adressing my ignorance on someones name, and yet you have bypassed blatent racism posted in this thread. | |
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Posted: 8/26/2008 2:24:00 PM | Review the statement you made again. It is very stereotypical. It is not a fact people with unusual names are poor and uneducated. However is a fact that they are often discriminated against. People should not assume if a name is unusual to them, that the person and their parents as you stated are poor and uneducated, just as they should not assume because a person is a minority, they are poor and uneducated. Do you seriously not see the similarity in the manner of thinking?
There are many discussions going in this thread, I do not have to address them all, especially if I find another person have already addressed the issue with my same sentiment. | |
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Posted: 8/26/2008 10:49:33 PM |
Allowing the overrepresentation of a group is like granting monopoly powers to a company. Exactly!
Take two boys, one white, one black. Let's say each belong to a family that has a max income of $35,000 per year. The statistics show that there will be a higher likelihood that the black child will live in the inner city or an impoverished area and go to a substandard school. The white child has a higher statistical chance of attending an average school. Coming out of high school, the white child has a higher statistical chance of attending college, due to a better education. The black child, to achieve the same thing must either have studied additionally on his own or been the very top of his class. Universities still have requirements. Getting kids to a university is the first hurdle, and one that minorities are already struggling from behind to get to. Yes, there are some that make it. There are some that were successes 30 years ago. The problem is that the statistics are very much NOT equal still. It's a very slow process. You can't take a large group that is at a disadvantage and at a bad school and just say "Ok, it's time for you to suddenly take a Calculus placement exam" when the highest they can get where they are at might be algebra.
If your parents attended college, you have a far higher likelihood to attend college yourself. Thirty years ago, there were far lower number of minorities than now, and far more white males. That meant, merely due to socialization and preparation, the white males were driven towards college whereas very few others were. So, a few more break away from the mold and are successes. That gives their kids an equal chance. Then a few more, and so on. The end goal is to see that there is an equal number of all races and genders coming out of college with a chance for success. That takes a few generations, which it has not been yet.
Also, if your parents had high paying jobs, the child is more likely to be able to do the same. It's a socialistic and financial advantage.
None of this says that people who aren't qualified aren't getting jobs any more or less than they did before. I can list off about a dozen white males I've met in my life that very much didn't deserve the jobs they had. How did they manage to get in under the bar?? Those types are pretty easily cut away to hire a qualified minority, and quite frankly, I don't care if they don't like it. If you want the dead weight gone, that's the place to start. All others that I know of that are hard working and intelligent are still getting jobs and becoming successful. In my own office it's overwhelmingly white male (with a few minorities). It's not that minorities didn't necessarily apply, it was that those guys were competitive enough to hold their own in the market. They will never have to worry about anyone "taking" a job away from them. Let's face it, a lot of IT is going overseas, so we have to prove we're the better choice.
Now, add into the mix being a minority AND being female, and you have a double strike that makes it much harder to come up in the world.
This isn't made up people. This is due to more than just a few years of study. This has been observed for well over 100 years, and people kept ignoring it. Case after case after case after case comes forth and some excuse has always been made. AA is in place because no one has any better idea for a SOLUTION. It can't stay as it was, because it was never going to change nor improve that way. I'm all for different solutions, but until the "opposing side" can manage to think of something besides just going back, many are not going to budge. People may complain about the solution, but at least someone came up with an idea of how to fix things instead of playing stupid to what is going on. | |
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Posted: 8/26/2008 11:13:37 PM | I feel, now that we have a minority running for the highest office in our land it’s time to also do away with affirmative action. Your supposition is based upon some amount of ignorance. We have had a "minority" running for president since 1972. Affirmative action was a process begun by president Kennedy who used the term and institutionalized the EEOC but broadened and expounded by President Lyndon B. Johnson in 1965. Nixon also braodened the application of affirmative action in '71(or was it '69) to include unions within the fed. The problem is that 1)the application and enforcement of affirmative action was slow and vigorously challenged from the start. Essentially its never had a real chance to thrive. 2) It has been circumvented from its inception by many institutions. In fact more women who classify themselves as "white" have benifited from affirmative action than ethnic minorities when the numbers are examined by employment and contractual records.
Which brings me back to Kennedy and Johnson and their knowledge and intentions. Their stated intention was to provide a situation where "race" particularly the "race" of those explicidly targeted for descrimination centuries in the USA was no longer a factor of descrimination. In other words to ensure equal treatment of applicants and employees "without regard to their race, creed, color, or national origin."
This is how President Johnson put it : "You do not take a person who, for many years, has been hobbled by chains and liberate him, bring him up to the starting line in a race and then say, 'you are free to compete with all the others', and still justly believe that you have been completely fair." The chains to which Johnson refered was not so much the physical slavery of the institution abolished in 1865 but the institution of laws and defacto practice of American Aparthied that continued to exist a century after reconstruction.
We are now a colorblind society. You are joking here aren't you
   I doubt that anyone can be foolish or uniformed enough to believe THAT One would have to be reality blind to think that. Race is a major factor in the 2008 elections its just that nobody wants to really talk nor examine it openly and honestly. Do you really think that the overwelming majority of Hilary Clinton supporters who claim they wont vote for Obama or are undecided are that way for reasons other than "race"? Their platforms were so similar on so many issues yet never before have so many within a party voiced such opposition to the nominee that was so similar on so many isssues and so opposite the opposition party's nominee. Do you think that the press and Mcclain have delt with what was said by Rev Wright years ago the same way its delt with major "white"Evangelicals who have supported Mcclain(and Bush) and stated worse things submitting that 911 was a result of the depravity of US domestic policy such as abortion, same sex marriage that caused the US to lose favor with God? Obama's character has been openly questioned dispite being the kind of man most would want their sons to be. Yet its Mcclian that has the obvious and documented character issues. My point here is that there has been a somewhat vieled attempt to vilify Obama in other words use the century old "southern strategy" in covert ways.
How do you feel about colleges considering race when assigning students to schools?
Universities admit students they dont assign students to schools. As Kennedy and Johnson would I believe concur ethnicity should be a factor but certainly not the sole nor dominating factor for university admission and it is NOT. A formula of economic background/financial bracket,HS record/ranking(of school) in addition of normal affirmative action standards should be considered in obvious addition to University accademic standards. The problem as I see it currently existing among some universities is a hard "quota". The difficult part is always knowing when the spirit of the rule exist suffeciently not to examine numbers so closely to feel the need to impose quotas. Fact is the quotas only existed due to the lack of the spirit on the part of those institutions most of the time. Affirmative action should be examined and adjusted but not strickened. Perhaps more of a Brazillian formula is more balanced. Still the US formulas havent been given much time nor opportunity to really work and take hold.
But sorry Sara males specifically white males to a greater degree became second class citizens the second we allowed legal discrimination against them based on gender, race or both. This is well.....just plain loony:wink: | |
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| Affirmative Action Outdated?
Posted: 8/27/2008 8:41:12 AM |
Review the statement you made again. It is very stereotypical. It is not a fact people with unusual names are poor and uneducated. However is a fact that they are often discriminated against. People should not assume if a name is unusual to them, that the person and their parents as you stated are poor and uneducated, just as they should not assume because a person is a minority, they are poor and uneducated. Do you seriously not see the similarity in the manner of thinking?
*sigh* the horse is dead...stop beating it already. You are not comprehending what I have been saying at all and continue to repeat the same argument (part of which I agreed with a number of times.) Most stereotypes are based on some form of reality, this one is based on statistics. Lets agree to disagree and be done with this irrelevant argument.
That was worth a good laugh.
MLK envisioned a world where ALL PEOPLE would be judged on their merits and character and NOT on their race.
Yes, it's pretty simple. Not sure why people don't understand that government sponsored racism flys in the face of MLKs dream.
I highly doubt that if MLK were alive today that he would be making a speech "I have a dream that minorities would not take jobs away from the hard working white man." All minorities combined whites still hold majority of the jobs, so really, stop whining. | |
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