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Posted: 6/15/2008 5:06:23 PM | My brother took care of my mother when she had emphysema...he did everything for her until she died. My grandparents, aunts, uncles...etc. never went to a nursing home. Our family doesn't send members to the nursing homes...I'm afraid that I would expect the same from a spouse, and would expect to do the same for one.
Unless they were a danger to themselves, or me. | |
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Posted: 6/15/2008 6:55:43 PM | chopsticks12344: you absolutely brought me to tears and writing this while sobbing is very difficult.
I believe that the love your father showed for your mother is what everyone, without exception wants and needs. It is what we are looking for.
I am touched so very much....I really can't write anything more.
May God keep you strong and your mother's memories be only good ones.
^^BG^^ | |
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Posted: 6/15/2008 8:30:07 PM | | I would hope the husband or wife would care for the other, if they can. IF not, why get married at all? It's a commitment ... for better or worse. Of course, most of us here are already older, so it would be a shorter marriage ... what do you do if your married 6 months and your spouse falls ill? And you have years and years of caregiving ahead of you.....while you still have your health. Life can be hard. | |
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Posted: 6/15/2008 8:50:38 PM | | It could happen tomorrow, a car accident...some disease...my neice was 31 when she had a stroke, had gotten married a year before for the second time, had a 5 year old...her husband told her he didnt want to be married to an invalid and left...that was 18 years ago and she is fine now. | |
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Posted: 6/15/2008 9:23:42 PM |
YOU ARE WACKED WackMC........your post is insulting
When my husband got cancer(brain, lung, liver) they gave him 3 months, he lived 13 and worked nine of those 13 months. .... Abandonment to a nursing home was not only not an option, it wasnt a thought..............and yes, I could afford it.
Your story is touching and falls quite outside the range of what I said, thus you should not feel offended. However if you choose to take offense in the stead of a hypothetical spouse who CANNOT afford the care and financial hit, that is your perrogative, of couse, I am not offended by your empathy. | |
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Posted: 6/16/2008 8:04:45 AM | | tough topic and to those who have experienced it know how difficult a time this is for everyone involved. My father desperately wanted to have my mom at home, but stroke and paralization had to been seen as the true reality in his eyes. To have taken her home would have been to much for him and everyone to deal with. She was placed in a home, not because we didnt love her, she was our mother for goodness sakes. But there does come a time in such a senario that you have to be realistic. My father faithfully saw her on a daily basis, until we could convince him that he needed some time to himself also. She outlived him by approx 3 years and 40+ years of marriage, it was a huge struggle for all involved which covered approx. 10 yrs of our lifes. Although I'd never want to be in that position for my own children, what I experienced there was true love and caring "till death do us part". It was a heart breaking and truly lovely experience at the same time. This love is truly a miracle. | |
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Posted: 6/16/2008 10:34:03 AM | THIS IS WHAT LOVE IS ALL ABOUT
It was a busy morning, approximately 8:30 a.m., when an elderly
gentleman
in his 80's, arrived to have stitches removed from his thumb. He
stated
that he was in a hurry as he had an appointment at 9:00 am.
I took his vital signs and had him take a seat, knowing it would be
over an hour before someone would to able to see him. I saw him looking at
his watch and decided, since I was not busy with another patient, I would
evaluate his wound.
On exam, it was well healed, so I talked to one of the doctors, got
the needed supplies to remove his sutures and redress his wound.
While taking care of his wound, we began to engage in conversation. I
asked him if he had another doctor's appointment this morning, as he
was in such a hurry. The gentleman told me no, that he needed to go to
the nursing home to eat breakfast with his wife.
I then inquired as to her health.. He told me that she had been there
for a while and that she was a victim of Alzheimer's Disease. As we
talked, I asked if she would be upset if he was a bit late. He replied that
she no longer knew who he was, that she had not recognized him in five
years now.
I was surprised, and asked him, "And you still go every morning,even
though she doesn't know who you are?"
He smiled as he patted my hand and said, "She doesn't know me, but I
still know who she is."
I had to hold back tears as he left, I had goose bumps on my arm, and
thought, "That is the kind of love I want in my life."
True love is neither physical, nor romantic. True love is an acceptance
of all that is, has been, will be, and will not be. | |
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Posted: 6/16/2008 6:35:30 PM | | ^^^^ that sounds like a movie I seen, called notebook, I think. lol... | |
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Posted: 6/16/2008 6:55:48 PM | ^^BG^^ ...thanks for your comments
My dad couldn't have chosen a better nursing facility for Mom - the staff there is fantastic. Neither my sister nor I live in the same city as Mom, and when Dad died we debated whether to move her, but finally decided we probably couldn't find another place like it. Fortunately, my sister is close enough to be able to see her almost weekly.
We don't really know what Mom realizes, but at times she demonstrates unexpected clarity and humor. At one visit she explained to my sister..."your father is away at college". We still laugh at that one and I know Dad would be laughing along with us. | |
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Posted: 6/16/2008 8:17:18 PM |
Unless the woman has a sizeable retirement nest egg or other income sources to maintain her lifestyle and tend to the care of a decrepit partner, she will likely pursue a vehicle for guaranteed economic security; i.e., she will allow the guy to expire in his own filth or or secure a promise of marriage from another man before cutting strings.
Dude, I don't care how you try to decorate this; it's damned insulting to the majority of women here,implying that all women care about is money and lifestyle.
Are you really THAT effed up in the head, or are you just trying to be controversial?( if so, the attempt was a colossal FAILURE.)
And the OP was directed to men, whether they could cope with PERSONALLY looking after a spouse or life partner who has become totally incapacitated, or would they put her into a care facility? It wasn't about what women would do.
And I might point out that it's not all that uncommon for we mature women to encounter older males dating to line up a caregiver. But again, that was not the question posed in the OT.
Cindy O | |
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Posted: 6/16/2008 9:01:34 PM | | OP I think men are capable of more than you might give us credit for. My grandparents on my mother's side were a good example. Grandma had a series of strokes in the late 60's and she was virtually wheel chair bound. She could go to the bathroom if someone would walk her there. My Grandfather took care of her until she died in 1973. It wasn't all a bed of roses. I remember visiting with my Mom and Grandpa was passed out on the couch with an empty bottle on the carpet and Grandma was in her wheel chair with tears streaming down her face. For the most part it worked. My other Grandmother came to help when she could and that freed up Grandpa for grocery shopping and other household chores. It won't always be easy but I think if you truly love someone and you try to the best of your ability, I think your partner understands and appreciates it if they are still mentally able. | |
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Posted: 6/16/2008 10:04:40 PM | And I might point out that it's not all that uncommon for we mature women to encounter older males dating to line up a caregiver. But again, that was not the question posed in the OT.
The OP said he's guessing that the women can do this. It's my opinion that's an erroneous assumption (one I could interpret as insulting to men by omission, but I choose not to be insulted). Not trying to be controversial, just point out the level of outrageous assumption by example.
...implying that all women care about is money and lifestyle.
I did not say "exclusively", but I DID IMPLY that lifestyle and security were of PRIMARY concern over caretaking of disabled loved-ones. I'm not upset if you disagree, but slinging mud, yeah, that would upset me. That's when disagreement becomes controversy.
And I might point out that it's not all that uncommon for we mature women to encounter older males dating to line up a caregiver. But again, that was not the question posed in the OT.
I think that's a good point to raise. What you are experiencing NOW is not unlike what many men experience in younger years when they feel women are trying to use them more for security than love. | |
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Posted: 6/17/2008 12:04:55 PM | From the OT;
Ok... Down the road...
You and your love have reached a ripe old age... and you are in better shape than the love of your life...
I am guessing the women could do this, so I'm really putting it out to the men...
When she's no longer able to fend for herself.... Will you be able to feed her, clean and bathe her... even change her diaper... with all that that entails... or would you put her in a home... Asuming you can afford it...
And what if you can't?
baviaans kloof said
cant work out if this is more insulting for women or for men...
And from WackMC
The OP said he's guessing that the women can do this. It's my opinion that's an erroneous assumption (one I could interpret as insulting to men by omission, but I choose not to be insulted). Not trying to be controversial, just point out the level of outrageous assumption by example.
Well, I think the OP was basing his "educated" guess on the strong tendency of it being the women who are the most "hands on" with a NEW life(feeding, changing,nurturing). Other than unusual circumstances, or in one of the new "Mr.Mom" families, for the most part it's the women doing those caregiving tasks.Most mature women have already had a fair amount of "caregiving" experience,if the couple had children. Even if the husband,siblings, extended family significantly "pitch in" the RESPONSIBILITY for the infant's care rests primarily on HER shoulders So I'd say that the OP has a reasonable basis for his "guess."
I did not say "exclusively", but I DID IMPLY that lifestyle and security were of PRIMARY concern over caretaking of disabled loved-ones.
And I might point out that it's not all that uncommon for we mature women to encounter older males dating to line up a caregiver. But again, that was not the question posed in the OT.
I think that's a good point to raise. What you are experiencing NOW is not unlike what many men experience in younger years when they feel women are trying to use them more for security than love.
WackMC,just because YOUR life/love experiences were about "getting used" for security,( or thinking you missed out on love and romance because you had none to offer) that doesn't mean everyone else had the same experience. I don't mean to disrespect you, in fact I feel BADLY for you, it must be hell to feel unworthy of love given freely, and to lack the means to buy a reasonable facsimile.
Cindy O | |
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Posted: 6/17/2008 8:18:29 PM | ^^^ LadyC4, I think you caught a mistake in my phrasing. Where I said "an erroneous assumption" I meant "an error in assumption". Meaning that the OP made an error in assuming, NOT that women are incapable of what he assumed. Mistakes happen.
WackMC,just because YOUR life/love experiences were about "getting used" for security,( or thinking you missed out on love and romance because you had none to offer) that doesn't mean everyone else had the same experience. I don't mean to disrespect you, in fact I feel BADLY for you, it must be hell to feel unworthy of love given freely, and to lack the means to buy a reasonable facsimile.
LadyC4, I'm only saying that the feeling of being "used" is a commonly felt one, it's not specific to me or men of a certain age range, or men in particular. Since you seem curious, FYI, I have not missed out on love and romance, and you know very well I didn't say everyone has the same experiences. If making such an interpretation makes you feel badly, I would suggest you interpret it another way and come out on the happy side.
Concerning the OP's scenario----even if the woman leaves and the hubby goes to a nursing home, it does not prevent them both from finding happiness in the long run.
I point at the traffic signs, how you deal with them is your own matter.  | |
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Posted: 6/17/2008 8:45:29 PM |
Since you seem curious, FYI, I have not missed out on love and romance,
But, given the cynicism in your posts, I can't help but think some of that love and romance must not have turned out as well as one might have hoped.
even if the woman leaves and the hubby goes to a nursing home, it does not prevent them both from finding happiness in the long run.
Setting aside the situations where it becomes just NOT POSSIBLE to care for the ill hubby at home, I fail to see how a woman who ran out on her husband when he needed her, and a man abandoned by his wife because she cared more about money and lifestyle,could find any kind of REAL happiness.
And it's only been recently that I've encountered situations where I suspected I was being courted for practical or material reasons, more so than for real love. I see these as valuable learning experiences, not as a reason to become cynical and bitter.
Traffic signs? Around here we call them target practice Rednecks aren't strictly a Southern phenomena...
Cindy O | |
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Posted: 6/17/2008 11:36:22 PM |
I can't help but think some of that love and romance must not have turned out as well as one might have hoped.
Hmm...I would expect that to be true for every online dater with an active profile. Granted, the daters may not be at fault -- if their mates die or abandon them, the end result is not as they might have hoped. It doesn't dictate that anyone is angry, just that they still want a relationship and are willing to go out and look again. A bad end doesn't automatically mean the middle and beginning were bad, too.
As I said before, it does not prevent them from finding happiness in the long run. I don't think disability or death of a loved one automatically destroys someone's ability to connect with other people or find happiness again.
I think everyone always has a chance. | |
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Posted: 6/18/2008 8:16:13 AM | When my mother got cervical cancer that evetually spread to her entire body, my step-father stayed by her side, taking care of her till the day she died. When people told him how great it was that he had stayed with her he was shocked couln't imagine doing it any other way.
I truly believe if you are married and love someonne it just happens, you just do what you have to do and until it becomes too much for human enduance the rest doesn't come into the picture. I dont think it matters if your male or female I think it just is being human | |
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Posted: 6/18/2008 12:05:18 PM |
I don't think disability or death of a loved one automatically destroys someone's ability to connect with other people or find happiness again
Death of a spouse/life partner is one thing, but to abandon a disabled husband because of concerns about money and lifestyle? I use the word HUSBAND because of your original remarks suggesting that MOST women, unless they had abundant financial resources( presumably to hire an in home caregiver) would abandon their
grieviously ill husband, to preserve their own lifestyle/security. Have all the women you've encountered actually been that shallow and self serving,for you to make that kind of generalized pronouncement?
I could just as easily say that MOST divorced men over 45 are only interested in finding a woman they can persuade to be their f**kbuddy. Or the only reason a man over 45 wants a committed relationship is because he's financially needy or afraid of going through old age alone. I happen to have run into a few of both types. I chose to pass up "relationships" with those types, because I'd like to remain free to connect with one of the nonbitter,nonfearful honorable men that ARE out there,(if the GOOD Lord's willin' and the creeks don't rise).
I don't care what "people" think, I have no need to be with a POS man just to be half of a couple.
I've alread begun sketching out a plan/directive for my care should I fall victim to a progressively worsening medical condition as a single woman. Isn't it wiser to set up a voluntary plan to enter an assisted living or care facility,when I can no longer look after myself, than to base my future wellbeing on the blind hope that I'll find a relationship with the depth of love necessary to care for me at the end of my life?This is not a statement of resignation to singlehood, not is it meant to say that I have lost faith in the quality of men. it's simply an act of controlling what is within my own power to control.
As for whether men can stick it out and care for a dying wife, I think most of the posts here iilustrate that they can and do, for no reason other than love and honor and knowing what is the right thing to do.
Cindy O | |
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Posted: 6/18/2008 11:01:10 PM |
Anotehr good reason to find someone a bit younger than yourself
You are just always looking for a good excuse why you want someone younger. Standing there with your guitar, does not make younger women want you, it's only if you are a rock star!!!!! | |
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Posted: 6/18/2008 11:43:31 PM |
I use the word HUSBAND because of your original remarks suggesting that MOST women, unless they had abundant financial resources( presumably to hire an in home caregiver) would abandon their grieviously ill husband, to preserve their own lifestyle/security. Have all the women you've encountered actually been that shallow and self serving,for you to make that kind of generalized pronouncement?
No, not all, and all them needn't be for me to see the writing on the wall. It's not a gender-specific issue. When people think their lifestyle is in danger, they freak. When a person sees their income halved or expenses multiplied, they fear their lifestyle is in danger. If this was a non-issue, women would have no qualms about dating unemployed men or look with disdain toward men who don't show some signs of accumulated wealth and earning stability. Yes, it's a generalization, that's obvious.
Looking for a mate is about as self-serving as any person can get. I don't have an issue with people being self-serving. It's the pillage and burn types that are bad news. A woman who leaves her ailing hubby may be self-serving, but needn't be pillage and burn by draining the joint bank accounts and fleeing without warning. Every unfortunate turn of events is not the WORST-CASE scenario. By leaving such a woman is not intentionally trying to hurt her spouse, but could only be what she feels is a necessary act. Sure it probably sucks for him despite the intent, but at least consider the intent before raining condemnation on everyone. | |
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Posted: 6/19/2008 2:43:02 AM | I would be as inclined to look after my wife, as she would tend to me, if and when the time comes. I can't for the life of me understand why someone wouldn't.
27 years ago, we made our vows 'for better or worse, in sickness and in health, until death do us part" and intend to keep them, but as far as I'm concerned, that should go for any committed LTR - married or not. | |
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Posted: 6/19/2008 4:39:08 AM |
I would be as inclined to look after my wife, as she would tend to me, if and when the time comes. I can't for the life of me understand why someone wouldn't.
27 years ago, we made our vows 'for better or worse, in sickness and in health, until death do us part" and intend to keep them, but as far as I'm concerned, that should go for any committed LTR - married or not.
Not everyone feels that way. I know when I was married, whenever I was sick or in an accident, I had no support.
My son is just the opposite of his father, he has been married 19 years and last year when his wife was in an accident, he didn't leave her side at the hospital until she was out of ICU, and then only to take a shower! | |
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Posted: 6/19/2008 5:37:19 AM | You're right, AgelessWonder, unfortunately. Makes me wonder why people even would say "I love you" to another. It seems hollow and shallow to me, if you only mean it "unless of course, you happen to become ill".
Kudos to your son though, it shows you did a fine job raising him and instilling proper values in him, despite the opposite example he was shown by his father. What a great job you've done! | |
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