| California Same-Sex Marriage: How will it affect other states?
Posted: 6/15/2008 6:52:17 PM | Insolent1,
Liberals do not believe that everyone can do whatever they want whenever they want.
Please provide an example.
Is gay marriage your example of this?
Actually, Conservatives are closer to your idea of do whatever you want whenever you want, at least when it comes to Corporate citizens. Republicans are strongly in favor of eliminating any and all laws that regulate business, including labor laws, OSHA laws, payment of taxes, and multi-national rights (as in NAFTA where foreign companies can sue American States for passing laws that infringe on their profit, and vice a versa.).
Essentially, they want Corporations to be able to do whatever they want. | |
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| California Same-Sex Marriage: How will it affect other states?
Posted: 6/15/2008 7:57:27 PM | thank you faith, i was just putting in my 2 cents about how i feel with the topic.
I agree with you country girl, but my question is posed to those who use christianity as an excuse to deny gay rights.
it's this way erik....they used christianity against abortion rights and the true christians will use their christianity against anything that's against the bible. i'm not saying that they're right or wrong....what i'm saying is that they should leave well enough alone. people have taken the bible away from courts, the 10 commandments, and anything else that has to do with the bible......it's like it's the sinners against believers, the pros against the cons....i'm sure that a lot of those christians sinned at one time or the other therefore they're not perfect. religion has been fought with and over for many years and it's going to continue to do so, it's a no win situation.
now, if anyone that's going to use christianity to crucify the homosexuals i hope that they're still virgin or married to 1 person with never divorcing, had their children while being married, no premarital sex, never sworn, stolen or did anything that's a sin. i hope that they follow the 10 commandments to the very last letter and period (.), if not then they're no better than the next person.
i can bet my bottom dollar that the bigger cities are going to be for same sex marriage and i can guarantee that a lot of homosexuals in pa are going to feel the same way. | |
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| California Same-Sex Marriage: How will it affect other states?
Posted: 6/15/2008 9:04:41 PM | Eventually other states will also allow gay marriage. Many states already allow domestic partnerships.
I don't get the whole controversy. People who are gay, are gay from birth. It's not something they can change, even if they wanted to. All they want to do is be able to live in their relationship the way that any other couple would. It's not a crime. There are no victims. It's behavior between consenting adults.
Homosexuals should be allowed to get married but they should not be entitled to any benefits or anything that goes along with marriage.
I agree with you a great deal of the time, but don't even understand this POV. If someone is allowed to get married what's the big deal about getting the "benefits" (i.e., naming your spouse as beneficiary to health and life insurance, filing a joint tax return, having that person be automatic "next of kin" without having a power of attorney).
I'm not into the whole religion and sin thing. There is no correlation between being religious and being a good person. Being a good person makes you a good person. Being a bad person makes you a bad person. You may go to church, you may not go to church, you may be an athiest -- you may even be gay.
I've known really principled athiests, and really morally bankrupt churchgoes (and vica-versa). If religion makes you feel good, if it supports you, if it offers you a community of friends, by all means participate -- but it does not make you into a good person. You have to BE a good person already.
Part of BEING a good person is not to foist your opinions onto others, and just let them live their lives. | |
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| California Same-Sex Marriage: How will it affect other states?
Posted: 6/15/2008 9:09:56 PM | The whole gay marriage question is affecting one other big marriage question...Polygamy. You notice that even though the Texas Cult members were admitted polygamists, not a single one was arrested for committing polygamy.
Eventually, not only will gay marriage be legal everywhere, so will polygamy. After they make gay marriage legal, there will be no possible way to stop it...because the only reason to stop polygamy was Religious.
Surprise, you allow one, you have to allow the other. | |
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| California Same-Sex Marriage: How will it affect other states?
Posted: 6/15/2008 10:23:03 PM |
Republicans are strongly in favor of eliminating any and all laws that regulate business,
The mob in Las Vegas wanted the same thing. They didn't get it either and after the next elections, neither will those crooks in government. It's going to be a whole different ball game. Go Obama.
Gay marriage is just another red herring the republicans put out there for their base to scream about. That takes the focus off the neocons theft of this country. | |
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| California Same-Sex Marriage: How will it affect other states?
Posted: 6/15/2008 10:34:52 PM | Looks like priests are doing it too:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2130668/Male-priests-marry-in-Anglican-church's-first-gay-'wedding'.html
Male priests marry in Anglican church's first gay 'wedding'
By Jonathan Wynne-Jones, Religious Affairs Correspondent
Last Updated: 7:10PM BST 15/06/2008
An Anglican church has held a homosexual "wedding" for the first time in a move that will deepen the rift between liberals and traditionalists, The Sunday Telegraph can disclose.
Two male priests exchanged vows and rings in a ceremony that was conducted using one of the church's most traditional wedding rites – a decision seen as blasphemous by conservatives.
Go figure. | |
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| California Same-Sex Marriage: How will it affect other states?
Posted: 6/15/2008 11:33:43 PM | California Same-Sex Marriage: How will it affect other states?
I dont think it will. Not Cali' anyway. What it will boil down to is, who will become president? If Obama is elected, I think that many states will follow Cali.
If McCain is victorious, the buck will stop with Cali. Actually, Cali's buck may have to be refunded. (well at least for the next 4-8 years) | |
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| California Same-Sex Marriage: How will it affect other states?
Posted: 6/16/2008 12:48:38 AM | I am sorry Fly. I wrote that sentence wrong. I really do not care if they get married, but I do have a problem with adoption. If you mate with someone of your same sex then you lose the step that includes children. Something can be set aside for a man and woman.
I do not care about marriage or even domestic partnerships. Anything is better than silence and people living in fear or on the down low. But, I do have a problem with the adoption of children. Fly this is one thing God will have to work with me on.
Being an administrator, you are starting to see two mommy's and two daddy's. So, I am getting use to seeing this, but I do have a problem with it. I am sorry you guys. That is truly what God will have to help me with. | |
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| California Same-Sex Marriage: How will it affect other states?
Posted: 6/16/2008 7:49:57 AM | | Right Bush is to Blame for everything...as far as how I feel or what I think it is what it is...thats what these forums are for to express our views...and yes letting everyone do everything all the time and going overboard extending individual rights is counter productive to a functioning society...some things are just not a good idea...like it or not...as far as adoption, I agree. Homosexual couples should never be allowed to adopt unless they are coupled with one of the biological parents. WE DO NOT know the cause of homosexuality until know conclusively some rights and privilege's should be reserved..... | |
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| California Same-Sex Marriage: How will it affect other states?
Posted: 6/16/2008 8:16:15 AM | ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ Yes we do, it's a combination of genetics plus environment as has been shown in many studies. We know that the prevlance isn't 100 percent genetic because there's only a 52% concordance of homosexuality in monozygotic twins (i.e., identical twins who share almost 100 percent of their DNA), 22% for dizygotic (fraternal) twins, and 11% for adoptive brothers of homosexual men. The 11 percent pretty much coinicides with the rate of homsexuality in the US. There are similar statistics for lesbians.
I'm not sure what the problem is with adoption or having children. There are no studies showing that children of gay couples suffer problems, are likely to become homosexuals, or are abused any more than they would if they had heterosexual parents. No child looks at the sexuality of their parents regardless of whether they are gay or straight. | |
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| California Same-Sex Marriage: How will it affect other states?
Posted: 6/16/2008 9:40:46 AM | Fly,
I do understand all of that. That is why I stated it is an issue I would have to take up with God. Fly sorry I disappointed you in this area, but I am a human. In time I will probably change.
But, it is becoming more common in the schools. One of my favorite mothers and students is a two mommy family. I should have sent her son to the alternative school, but his IQ is above average. She is dying (family believes is is AIDS to to drug abuse) and he is only reacting to loosing his mother. I have watched her go from over 200 lbs. to under 100 lbs. in a matter of months. The last week of school he was helping take down bulletin boards.
Another student caught my heart he comes from a two mommy family, but he was born with both genitals. He remembers himself as a girl, but now he is a beautiful boy. He was in counseling, because he kept telling the kids he use to be a girl. His last day on the campus he cried as he walked down the hallway. He would stop by my office to get a pencil or candy as I have him a very big hug and assured him everything would be ok (closed my door and cried).
God will deal with my fly. I have a heart trust me. I just do not like watching any child hurt because of the mistakes and selfishness of parents homo or heterosexual. My all time favorite student was taken away by CPS. I was working hard with this mother, but she would not stop and she was heterosexual. I am just an advocate for children. Can we still be friends Fly. | |
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| California Same-Sex Marriage: How will it affect other states?
Posted: 6/16/2008 4:05:01 PM | I'm not disappointed. People have their own opinions, and religious dogma often gets in the way of common sense. I don't have negative feelings about other people as long as their opinions don't include hate. I even have Obama supporters among my friends.  | |
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| California Same-Sex Marriage: How will it affect other states?
Posted: 6/16/2008 4:11:46 PM |
Yes we do, it's a combination of genetics plus environment as has been shown in many studies. We know that the prevlance isn't 100 percent genetic because there's only a 52% concordance of homosexuality in monozygotic twins (i.e., identical twins who share almost 100 percent of their DNA), 22% for dizygotic (fraternal) twins, and 11% for adoptive brothers of homosexual men. The 11 percent pretty much coinicides with the rate of homsexuality in the US. There are similar statistics for lesbians.
There could also be non-genetic biological components. For instance, the more older brothers a man has, the more likely he is to be gay. Perhaps a mother's body has slightly different hormone production on subsequent male pregnancies (this trend does not hold for lesbians). | |
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| California Same-Sex Marriage: How will it affect other states?
Posted: 6/16/2008 4:20:02 PM | Polygamy has to do with marriage, once you take God out of the equation, all you have left is man's will. The basic reason polygamy has been made illegal was that in the US Protestants and Catholics alike were against the Mormons and their tenets...one of which was polygamy. Now with the religious bounds and trappings being removed to allow gay marriage, it is only a matter of time before Polygamy is totally legalized. My making it possible for gays to marry, the door has been opened.
It was previously decided that anyone who had multiple wives that immigrated to the US could maintain those marriages...this is why immigrant Muslims have been able to keep their wives since 1in the US and reap the benefits thereof...Can you say that Americans cannot have the same rights as immigrants??? Polygamy is about to be a serious reality and there is NOTHING that ANYONE can do against it once gay marriage is passed nationwide. Notice that the Texas Polygamist Ranch that recently hit the headlines...NOBODY got arrested or charged with polygamy, even though they had proof that it had occured. Texas will not be seeking charges related to polygamy because they were forewarned by the D.A.'s that they couldn't prosecute for polygamy due to the changes that are occuring in marriage law. There's your hint.
The bottom line is ANY restrictions on human marriage that had a basis in religion now have to be dropped. Neither Gender nor amount of husbands/wives will be able to be legislated. | |
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| California Same-Sex Marriage: How will it affect other states?
Posted: 6/16/2008 4:22:12 PM | I really do not care if they get married, but I do have a problem with adoption. If you mate with someone of your same sex then you lose the step that includes children. Something can be set aside for a man and woman.
An opinion that is supported by your chosen religious doctrine, a right you have to express, as any. No need to apologize nor feel guilt, my sweet friend.
I do not care about marriage or even domestic partnerships. Anything is better than silence and people living in fear or on the down low. But, I do have a problem with the adoption of children. Fly this is one thing God will have to work with me on
Being an administrator, you are starting to see two mommy's and two daddy's. So, I am getting use to seeing this, but I do have a problem with it. I am sorry you guys. That is truly what God will have to help me with.
 One mustn't apologize for their views simply because they are unpopular. You are expressing an opinion that is not only Biblically supported but also supported by most all Christian Theologists. You mustn't feel as though "God needs to work on you"! His Word is the very foundation from which you have gathered your stand on the topic. I do not think that He will "work" that belief out of you, seeing how He gave it to you, darlin. 
Kudos and respect faith, for such diplomacy and gentleness of spirit. (feel free to share at any time) | |
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| California Same-Sex Marriage: How will it affect other states?
Posted: 6/16/2008 6:36:00 PM |
do not care if they get married, but I do have a problem with adoption. If you mate with someone of your same sex then you lose the step that includes children. Something can be set aside for a man and woman.
Can you explain why adoption should be "set aside" for a man and woman? And can you explain it without resorting to religion? After all, while your religious beliefs are clearly your own business and should not be restricted, they are your beliefs, and should not be forced on others. Others, for example, like gay couples wishing to adopt. | |
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| California Same-Sex Marriage: How will it affect other states?
Posted: 6/16/2008 7:21:31 PM | The problem is that all states must recognize the legal actions of other states through the Full Faith and Credit Clause of the U.S. Constitution.
"Article IV, Section 1, Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof."
Many states have already amended their State's Constitution to state that only a marriage between a man and a woman shall be legally recognized in that state in order to preempt the day that gay marriage was legislated from the Bench. That is a way to prevent the Full Faith and Credit Clause from forcing a state to recognize another state's marriage laws.
I believe that any gay couples who marry under California's new law and leave that state may be unable to divorce if they live in a state that does not recognize a marriage between two people of the same sex. The problem, in my opinion, would be dissolving something that legally does not exist. It's the problem of the "legal fiction"--something that we can say exists in the eyes of society but not in the eyes of the Court.
I also believe that many social conservatives are not so much against homosexuality. It is that they see gay marriage opening the door to polygamy and various forms of non-traditional marriage that have a history in other parts of the world. There is a much stronger argument to be made for polygamy since it is an old institution whereas gay marriage is something that is relatively new in the history of mankind. | |
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| California Same-Sex Marriage: How will it affect other states?
Posted: 6/16/2008 9:02:05 PM | | Personally I like the idea of states being allowed to decide if they want to allow same sex marriages.. good for Calif and Mass to allow it but don't try to force other states to follow the lead.. it's should be left up to to individual states that is what makes this such a great country. I don't want 1 or 2 states dictating what other states should or should not do on any issue. | |
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| California Same-Sex Marriage: How will it affect other states?
Posted: 6/26/2008 8:25:16 PM | Latest News
Obama's wife says he'll fight for gay equality
From Associated Press
June 26, 2008 7:57 PM EDT
NEW YORK - Michelle Obama says her husband will fight for equality for gays just as he fought to help working-class families overcome poverty.
The wife of Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama spoke Thursday night in New York City at a fundraising dinner for the Democratic National Committee's Gay and Lesbian Leadership Council.
She spoke about her husband's record pushing for workplace discrimination legislation in Illinois when he served in the Legislature there.
Barack Obama has said it should be up to individual states to decide whether to allow gay marriage. Michelle Obama says he wants equal treatment for any relationship recognized under state law. | |
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| California Same-Sex Marriage: How will it affect other states?
Posted: 6/26/2008 10:31:11 PM | this was a bad ruling for the following reasons...
#1 the justices ruled in favor of gay marraige regardless of the fact that prop 22 ( marraige btwn one man and one woman) was overwelmingly passed by 60% of the people....considering this is in cali....that is a huge number.
#2 they made their decison on the argument of discrimination....that its discriminatory not to allow gays to marry (even though we had civil unions in this state). this will open the courts to more lawsuits in the future by individuals who'll want to marry their sister or brother, their mother or father. if three men want to marry three women, they'll be able to sue... and have legal precident because THE STATE CAN'T DISCRIMINATE when it comes to marraige.
#3 what these judges did was say, we know better than the people of cali, we know better than all the previous generations. for thousands of years marraige in the west has been between one man and one womanfor a reason.....but these jokers "know better". | |
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