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 AUTHOR
 sorot
Joined: 10/18/2008
Msg: 151
Solutions to illegal immigration?Page 7 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
Comment to Soulmate's info : In a television interview in 2000, Mexico’s President Vincente Fox made his country’s intentions clear concerning the balance of power in the Western Hemisphere:
"I'm talking about a community of North America, an integrated agreement of Canada, the United States, and Mexico in the long term, 20, 30, 40 years from now. And this means that some of the steps we can take are, for instance, to agree that in five years we will make this convergence on economic variables. That may mean in 10 years we can open up that border when we have reduced the gap in salaries and income."
====================================

W O W - anyone remembers my first post here when I said HOW CAN MEXICO BE GIVEN THE SAME STATUS AS CANADA? Canada is a developed country while Mexico is on the way to become developed, though "developing country" term seems nonsense to me, it is already like 50 yrs old. Also during all this 50 yrs almost all the countries which were supposed to get "Developed" are still "developing". Anyway, if this would make even slightest sense I mean Mexico being given the same status as Canada, then everyone in Europe would qualify for joining European Union. We all know the brilliant success of EU. The most important cornerstone of success is that EU DOES NOT ACCEPT anyone who wants to join, they have to satisfy a criteria and I am not even talking sending massive population to the USA, having 5,6 even 10 children and putting burden to other citizens who want to live in a civilized society.

========================================================
Thanks Redwood for the info! I think the major reason for LEAKAGE OF USA BORDERS IN MEXICO AND AS FACTS SHOW EXPANSION OF NOT ONLY ILLEGAL ENTRY BUT ALSO OTHER ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES IS THE IGNORANCE OF PEOPLE AND POLITICIANS NOT WANTING TO BECOME LESS POPULAR SINCE UNLIKE REGULAR PEOPLE THEY KNOW FOR SURE THAT IT'S THE MAJOR PROBLEM. I think it is ABSURD for the police not to be able to check documentation, it shows THE WEAKNESS OF AUTHORITIES IN LA, WHO DON'T WANT TO CLARIFY THEIR EFFORTS PUBLICLY OF HOW BIG OF A PROBLEM IS This illegal immigration, and what lies under the tip Iceberg, except what we see. What people see are humble workers, but, they are only a percentage of that, and even if someone is a humble worker, if they came illegally then they can do other things illegally too. Quality people from Mexico don't come here by crossing the border illegally. I am not even talking how S T U P I D is that they put this "watering stations" on the border so that if the Mexican is passing the border illegally and they get thirsty so that they would have a water to during. THE ONLY REASON PEOPLE WILL ENCOURAGE SOMEONE TO DO SOMETHING ILLEGAL, MEANING PASSING THE BORDER AND SUPPORTING THEM IN THAT WAY IS BCS PROBABLY IN THEIR MENTALITY IT IS OK TO VIOLATE THE LAWS TOO.

OK MY DEAR FELLOW AMERICANS, LETS GO ON THE MEXICAN BORDER AND NOT ONLY PUT EVIAN AND AQUAFINE EXPENSIVE WATERS FOR THEM TO DRINK PAID BY OUR TAXPAYERS MONEY, BUT ALSO BUY SOME ICE-CREAM, MAKE A BARBEQUE THERE ON THE BORDER FOR THE DUDE WHO IS BRINGING THE CRACK, ALSO LET'S GO TO A STRIP CLUB CATSH COUPLE OF BABES SO THAT IF THIS POOR DUDE WHO IS ILLEGALLY PASSING THE BORDER WITH A CRACK, WILL HAVE SOME FUN TOO SINCE HE GOT SO TIRED.

One word - S I L L Y. Not serious and completely wrong apprach - the main source of all the problems Americans with their "BIG HEART", "COMPASSIONS" , DEGREE OF TOLERENCE" HAVE ALREADY CAUSED THEMSELVES.
====================
Now about the immigration law and why it is considered to be the "most complex" and "the least enforced".

I still think IT IS NOT A GOOD LAW, THAT'S WHY. May be partialyl bcs immigration lawyers are the ones who make the least amount of money, since their clients usually are not in a midium or even high income.

The reason it is not being enforced is that public doesn't support it. For the public to support it, it has to start making better sense. Otherwise, guess what. I know a woman who is here for already 18 yrs, delivered a child, her son is a citizen but she is in deoprtation prodeedings. guess what, if she goes to a TV channels and talks to all people in SoCal and exmplains the situation, most are going to be discusted by the fact that she hes to leave her son here in school and go live back in the country where she came from while she is 37 and have been here since she was 23. Another example of a guy who is my age, his parents came here illegally and brought him with them when he was 1.5 month. This guys has been living his entire life here, in Riverside, and have been underdeportation proceedings all his life, while he want to school here, doesn't even speak Spanish etc etc, so what the hell he is gonna do when he goes back to Mexico?
See? On one side the law needs to be changed, on the other side it needs to get started to be enforced better by making TV programs, imforming the public, asking for their help to report illegal ilens here, AND NOT PAYING WELFARE WHO ARE ILLEGAL. See, they are deporting that woman whom I am saying who is a professional, fluent in 4 languages, has paid taxes everything, but are paying a welfare to a prostitute who has 6 children and probably transferred some crack thru the border many times too.
 serendipiteee
Joined: 5/30/2006
Msg: 152
view profile
History
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/14/2008 9:27:47 PM
Get a clue folks!
How much do you think it will cost to locate, detain and deport the illegals?
HELLO, IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!
Cry and moan all you want, you're pissin' in the wind. You might just as well learn to live with them, they aren't going anywhere!

- - - - - - - N e w s F l a s h - - - - - - -

As long as there is money to be made by greedy corporations who profit off the backs of illegals there will be a constant influx.

Yo Habla Español? Perhaps you should.
 ManeRider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 153
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History
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/14/2008 10:20:15 PM

Get a clue folks!
How much do you think it will cost to locate, detain and deport the illegals?
HELLO, IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!
Cry and moan all you want, you're pissin' in the wind. You might just as well learn to live with them, they aren't going anywhere!

- - - - - - - N e w s F l a s h - - - - - - -

As long as there is money to be made by greedy corporations who profit off the backs of illegals there will be a constant influx.

Pre-financial meltdown, those were probably very true statements. However (coma) do you really think people, American people, will stand by idly, homeless, living in a tent, scrapping to feed their kids, while illegal immigrants go out and make money?
These are drastic times, which require drastic measures. I sense that there will be an administrative enforcement of required documents or hefty fines. Deportation would run 20 billion, so from a financial aspect, the cost of deportation would be very cost-effective, considering it cost tax payers in the neighborhood of 300 billion annually for them to be here.

Pissing in the wind, I doubt. Had we not fallen off the Dow Jones radar for weeks on end, maybe that would be true, but suspicions tell me we're in much dire times than we're being told. (sorry, I find that laughable) Truth is, if people "had" the knowledge that, for instance, much more crushing economic tragedies would soon unfold, they'd stop shopping, they'd start saving. But Americans tend to be obsessive about their consuming. Not only do they live on the very edge of making ends meet, they want to borrow m-o-r-e.. money to buy things. But im getting off topic.

These hard financial times are going to force changes in other areas....and I venture to say...if enough people stand up and make a scene about illegals gainfully employed, while Americans get bank rolled and homeless, we'll see change coming with a quickness.

Just my 2.3 cents worth
 sorot
Joined: 10/18/2008
Msg: 154
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/15/2008 11:06:20 AM
Cry and moan all you want, you're pissin' in the wind.
------------------------------------------------

Almost 2000 views, even if 200 people start talking to others, say 2 other people each, and that 2 other talk to other 2 people, it can have a some effect, so nobody is wasting time here.
 d0rene
Joined: 6/7/2008
Msg: 155
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History
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/15/2008 4:45:17 PM
Read in the Sunday paper that they arrested someone who was employing 2 or 3 illegals and in the process of importing 1 or 2 more. He is going to court and faces a possibility of up to 10 years jail time- don't have the article for reference right now. Iowa is also looking at seizing the assets of Agriprocessors and they did arrest the head of the company along with other personnel. He is out on bail, but he is still going to trial over it. Things are starting to flow the right way....

Let people be aware that there are consequences and the authorities are going to step in. In order to buy alcohol, get hired at a job, cash a check.... you have to have identification, driver's license, etc. Start enforcing the law and stop looking the other way and the current climate will change.
 redwood34
Joined: 5/22/2006
Msg: 156
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/15/2008 7:13:40 PM
Speaking of employers of illegal aliens being arrested, here is a recent article of an employer being sentenced to 30 months in jail for employing illegal aliens.

http://www.theindependent.com/news/x1720689537/Cloudburst-owner-gets-30-month-sentence

So, some employers are getting arrested, but not near enough to turn the tide yet.
 angelsands
Joined: 9/17/2005
Msg: 157
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Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/15/2008 7:21:13 PM
Here is the perfect solution... Before I say it, please indulge me in to something... Well/... uuhhh.. everyone of US is trying to blame the big business and the sort.. but .. WHAT ABOUT US...!!! US.... as in WE..!! Shouldn't it be better and faster if WE STOP COSUMING THE PRODUCTS THEY "PRODUCE"..?? What about if we stop buying the vegetables we buy at the grocery store...?? and the meats..?? furniture..??.. Ohhh.. wait.. NOT TO BUY THE HOUSES THEY BUILT..?? What about if WE don't hire companies that CUT our grass and maintain our HOUSES... (YEAH MR CHERTOFF..)?? What about if We don't wear the APPAREL they make... ?? What about if we don't eat the FOOD at the restaurants where they work at..?? And to take our vehicles to the shops where they work at..?? Not to mention to STOP SENDING MONEY TO THE GOVERMENT BECAUSE THAY ALSO BUILT (OR AT LEAST CONTRUBUTE) THE ROADS WHERE WE TRAVEL IN..?? INCLUDING THE GOVERMENT BUILDINGS... OHHH YEAH ....!!! That is the perfect solution... !! Don't You think is time that WE either recognize them and acknowledge their contributions or simply WE START demanding our sons and daughters to do what they do..?? What do Yo think..??? Isn't it PERFECT..??
 redwood34
Joined: 5/22/2006
Msg: 158
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/15/2008 7:46:18 PM
Many of our sons and daughters are already doing it, mostly the less financially well of people of this country(rarely will you see rich kids doing low end jobs, its usually the poor kids doing it). It isn't as if illegal aliens are doing all the low end jobs in this country. But illegal aliens will almost always work for less than a legal worker will even if they have to accept well below minimum wage, and employers can more easily abuse them(refuse to give them lunch breaks, bathroom breaks, no workmans comp if they get hurt on the job, they are more willing to break the law and get paid under the table, etc. whereas legal workers will usually not put up with that kind of stuff), so that is why illegal aliens often push out legal workers. It isn't as if there are no Americans out there who want to do these lower end jobs, its just that so many employers don't see why they should hire legal workers when the risk of getting caught and arrested is so low, and when they can profit more from hiring illegal aliens than legal workers.
 angelsands
Joined: 9/17/2005
Msg: 159
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Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/15/2008 7:52:29 PM
Mr red.. uhhh ... C'mon... ... PLEAZZEEE...!! You seriously don't BELIEVE what you are saying... (xcept the excerpt where You state that "some" of our sons and daughters are doing it.... and that is stretching it.... VERY far..) But I mean... You don't seriously BELIEVE what YOU are saying...!! UHhh.. Do YOu..??? Please tell me You don't..!! I mean.... uhhh.. DO YOU..??
 sorot
Joined: 10/18/2008
Msg: 160
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/15/2008 8:12:26 PM
Now we are talking, I see some action going on here

How about making a regulation that if a Mexican dude is caught with intoxication and/or posesion with Marijuana or Tequila, and/or screw-up in terms of BSing in construction and not being able to do proper job unless you baby sit them, or fixes the car and then it breaks up, in combination with having 8 children on welfare but getting $3000 cash and not showing it while at the same time being here illegally, then the above mentioned Water, Barbuque, and the Babes from the strip club (I WILL BRING THE BABES AS MANY AS YOU WANT )will be provided during the nice trip thru Greyhound station to Beautiful Rosarito. DEAR LOVABLE SWEET MEXICAN AMIGOS !!!! , IF ANY HERE WHO READS THIS AND WHO IS THIS TYPICA BSER, I am not sure any of them will be here though, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT MEXICAN AMERICANS, THEY ARE LIKE ANY OTHER AMERICAN, I AM TALKING CITIZENS OF MEXICO AND ANY OTHER COUNTRY WHO IS BSING HERE --------------


READ THIS CAREFULLY --------------------------

DEATH IS NOT THE WORST THING THAT CAN HAPPEN TO YOU!!!! ( BILL MAHER -- that dude is funny, I mean Bill Maher)

YOU A R E CAUSING PROBLEMS TO Hrad working decent people in this country while the unemployment (you know what unemployment means right? if not send me an email I will explain you ), SO GOING BACK TO ROSARITO BEACH AND CROWING CHICKEN NEAR A NICE RANCH NOT ONLY WON'T BE THE WORST THING, BUT ALSO MAY BE ONE OF THE BEST THNGS HAPPENED TO YOU.
 redwood34
Joined: 5/22/2006
Msg: 161
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/15/2008 8:20:39 PM
re:msg 159

I seriously believe everything I said, and no its not stretching it. And I believe its against the rules to use excessive emoticons, just in case you didn't know.
 angelsands
Joined: 9/17/2005
Msg: 162
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Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/15/2008 8:26:11 PM
Welll... Mr red... Report me to the MOderator.. By the way mr Moderator... HOW are YOU... ?? Go and... well.. You know what... Mr. red.. Uhh.. I have NEVER been known to follow rules... specially those that apply to "laws"... Because, just in the case You have not noticed... Uhh... "law" and "justice" are not the same... actually, they are OPPOSITES.... according to our "laws"...
 ManeRider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 163
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Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/15/2008 9:31:00 PM

(angelsands) Shouldn't it be better and faster if WE STOP COSUMING THE PRODUCTS THEY "PRODUCE"..?? What about if we stop buying the vegetables we buy at the grocery store...?? and the meats..?? furniture..??.. Ohhh.. wait.. NOT TO BUY THE HOUSES THEY BUILT..?? What about if WE don't hire companies that CUT our grass and maintain our HOUSES... (YEAH MR CHERTOFF..)?? What about if We don't wear the APPAREL they make... ?? What about if we don't eat the FOOD at the restaurants where they work at..?? And to take our vehicles to the shops where they work at.
Actually, we should arrest and detain and take to trial all of those people who hire the illegals; this includes big businesses, processing plants, the general contractors building the homes, as well as the sub-contractors who allow illegals to work, and on down the line. First and foremost, it's a legal matter, and allowing them to work is unethical, as well as the fact that it's undermining other legal residents and bona-fide Americans who are now struggling to make ends meet. The other issue is that, at least in the construction field, there is an abundance of very non-professional people doing work they're not qualified to do. Spreading pine straw and planting shrubs is one thing....Iv'e even seen some really good brick work, but I've seen some atrocious results in tile and marble. I've also seen hideous plumbing from some derelict types who just happen to be from south of the border. And that is basically systemic from the building codes in America vs those in, say, Mexico.
I think if Betty Buckhead loses her job at, oh, say Bellsouth, At&T, or any number of businesses that are going down quickly, she's going to need work, and she probably won't care what it is so long as she's able to feed her kids. So, the idea that she wont' eat at a restaurant that employees illegals is just a bit short of the mark. She'll be demanding to have a job in place of one of those who's undocumented. People are just N-O-T going to stand by and allow "illegals" to work while those who've paid into the infrastructure for generations upon generations- stand by and do without.


Here is the perfect solution...

Trying to abstain from buying products that illegals handle or produce in some fashion is clearly not going to do anything but run the business further into the ground, financially. What good would that do someone who's looking for work? No, the "I'm legal and documented, and he/she is not, and I'm demanding I get hired" approach is much more convincing. When employers see an angry person with documentation staring them in the face, threatening to report the illegal employee(s), there will be a change. Pretty soon, we'll begin to see the laws enforced....from fruit harvesting, to landscaping, to construction.
No doubt, Americans have more or less "accepted" the illegals because they really didnt' care who did that work. But today is different. And quite frankly, all the spoiled little American kids are just going to have to accept that if they want to earn a living, they may just have to get their hands dirty, sweat a little, and learn the basics of life from the ground up. No problem. The change will do them some good, not to mention, they'll learn something new. They'll learn to cook for themselves or they'll learn a skilled trade- whatever the skill they receive will be well earned. Todays young people typically couldn't operate a power tool without hurting themselves, they dont' know what it's like working in a hot kitchen on your feet for 7-8 hours at a time..... but it's coming. The dwindling economy is going to have some natural repurcussions over time, and American kids are going to have to branch into different fields of blue collar work. But it's ok. It'll be good for them. They'll learn a w-h-o-l-e... new appreciation for the art of making a living.
 sorot
Joined: 10/18/2008
Msg: 164
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/15/2008 9:40:10 PM
well, to go back to the topic = = =

I think these are exclusive cases related with slave labor and that government knew that will get lots of copensation too. governemnt CAN'T IMPRISON every homeowner who has a gardner and never checks their docs. But, if proposition or something like that will be made and advertised on TV, then it may be (just a suggestion).

Yes, due to economic crisis many are going back by themselves,

but

during economic problems crime level goes up

and many who came illegally may look for other ways without or in combination with "working"

So, again the solution I see is informing the public about this details. I have yet to see a TV channel which discusses this problem. It's like there are 500,000 people dying in USA every year due to heart attack, and it rarely gets discussed, but say if two airplanes crash each other and only 500 poeple will die or Paris Hilton's panties will get torn or Britney Spears will show her "treasures" to entire world without being completely shaved, they will be headline news. But, this which obviously is the main problem for years and now is so vital, nobody discusses on TV.
 Barbe1963
Joined: 9/30/2007
Msg: 165
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History
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/15/2008 9:52:55 PM
^^^Interesting you bring this up. It's obviously a hot button for many of us, why wasn't it more of an issue during the campaigns and what specifically is our president elect going to do about this?
 redwood34
Joined: 5/22/2006
Msg: 166
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/15/2008 10:17:29 PM
Quote from above: "I have yet to see a TV channel which discusses this problem"

One of the only ones that does discuss the problem on t.v. on a regular basis is the Lou Dobbs Tonight show on CNN(last I checked, Christine Romans and Kitty Pilgrim were running the show more often, maybe one of them will be chosen to take over the show, with the necessary name change of Christine Romans tonight or Kitty Pilgrim Tonight, when Lou retires). I think most other stations are afraid to talk about it, or choose not to talk about it for whatever reason, or once in awhile you'll see something on it, but its easy to miss.
Some radio stations talk about it on a regular basis, like the Terry Anderson Show hosted by the black talk show host(have to mention he's black because of how quick some people are to think the only people seriously opposed to illegal immigration are white supremacists or kkk), Terry Anderson on KRLA in Los Angeles, California. He does his show once a week and has been doing it for years. You can find links to his archived radio shows here(and you can listen to all of the shows on your computer if you don't live in Los Angeles)

http://www.thewakeupamerica.com/TERRY_ANDERSON_SHOW_ARCHIVES_PAGE_01.htm
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 167
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History
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/16/2008 12:20:46 AM

or Paris Hilton's panties will get torn or Britney Spears will show her "treasures" to entire world without being completely shaved, they will be headline news.


The fact that things like this are what sells commercial airtime and newspapers is sad commentary on what's most important on the minds of the people.

Same thing with redwood having to mention that Terry Anderson is a black man.
The fact that many of us are worried about our country going down the drain, and all people who don't see it as a problem can think of is to call us racist because a minority race is a main part of the problem. The problem is they are here illegally, and I could care less if they are purple.
 Brandie46
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 168
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/16/2008 12:02:25 PM
Let's keep this real....

We want and are addicted to bargain prices, so abstaining from purchasing things made by the undocumented worker would not work.

@ Mane...what the typical Betty Buckhead does after losing her job, is to collect unemployment for six months, without REALLY looking for another job. The illegal immigrant probably makes about the same amount of money working some menial job, that Betty collects sitting at home, eating bon bons while watching the soaps.

You know, all this talk about the illegals working and having 'stuff' had me thinking about the 'immigrant mentality' which is to make as much money as you can while you can. I thought to myself, if the illegals are working....there MUST be jobs out there.
So, instead of sitting at home at nights playing on the POF forums and reading about the illegals making money, while I'm watching ET, Survivor and Desperate Housewives, maybe I could go find a night job.

It was much easier than I thought it would have been, considering how bad the economy is. However, I have to admit, it took a shift in my thoughts and attitude. I began thinking from the employer's perspective. They are seeking reliable workers, with great attitudes, without a sense of entitlement, who will show up for work and do what they are paid to do, for the agreed upon pay.

So, if there are jobs out there that the illegals are doing, why would we not take those jobs, and deny them the opportunity to make that money that rightfully belongs to us?

Brandie46
 sorot
Joined: 10/18/2008
Msg: 169
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/16/2008 1:10:33 PM
Same thing with redwood having to mention that Terry Anderson is a black man.
The fact that many of us are worried about our country going down the drain, and all people who don't see it as a problem can think of is to call us racist because a minority race is a main part of the problem. The problem is they are here illegally, and I could care less if they are purple.
=============================

The U S of A is a country boardering ony T W O other countries ------- United States of Canada and Mexxxxico and both of these borders are quite lenghty and not easy to maintain in a proper state I guess.

So, we are NOT talking about Mexicans, but those coming from Mexico who may be Mexicans or may not be. I bet since it's easier to get visa to Mexico, many other nationals from other countries can come to Mexico and enter the USA that way. Living in Cali I know so many decent and in many cases honorable Mexican Americans and at the same time citizens of Mixico living here, but non of them crossed and snitched the border. Let's imagine we turn the table around, and let's say Mr. Fox would provide welfare to those who would cross USA border and go to Mexico with 8 kids, who are complete losers here in USA. So, in that case tables would turn around - instead of ALL THE GARBAGE from Mexico coming to USA, all the garbage in the USA would go to Mexico.

So, it's only fair that Not only USA doesn't let Mexican transpassers cross the border, but also Mexico boarder guard won't allow it happen too. It's only fair right? Mexico can close it's own borders too, they can do the same check up as USA does while entering the country. But if there is NAFTA, collaboration, USA doesn't need to be the babysitter for all, going solving problems in Columbia while they can't solve their own problems, solving and housing and giving welfare to those who can't live in same Mexico while we pay for their children's education and welfare and my child might go to high scholl and be exposed to the crack brought by them. WHO IS THE IDIOT HERE? Not Mexico. They know what they are doing, just abusing the kindness of people here.

I will be gone for a while, so will read latest info and get back in couple of days.
 redwood34
Joined: 5/22/2006
Msg: 170
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/16/2008 7:19:07 PM
Quote from post above "...I began thinking from the employer's perspective. They are seeking reliable workers, with great attitudes, without a sense of entitlement, who will show up for work and do what they are paid to do, for the agreed upon pay.
So, if there are jobs out there that the illegals are doing, why would we not take those jobs, and deny them the opportunity to make that money that rightfully belongs to us?"

Not all employers think this way, there are many who see legal workers as inferior to illegal workers even if a legal worker works just as hard as an illegal one. Would you be willing to go into a room with an illegal alien and a boss who's looking to hire someone at a low end job, and outbid him for the job? If the employer asks which one of you will take the lowest wage, will you be willing to accept well below minimum wage? Would you agree to never get a lunch break during your shift(even if it was 8 hours or more), even though by state law you have the right to get one? Would you agree to be paid under the table off the books? Would you agree to never file a workman's comp claim if you got injured on the job?
But actually, this sort of scenario would not happen, because a legal employee put into that situation might call the authorities on the employer for doing illegal things like this. An illegal alien however will most likely not call the authorities, because they want to avoid dealing with authorities because of the illegal things they are doing(illegal entry into the country, possibly engaging in identity theft/fraud to find work more easily), so the illegal alien will likely do whatever the employer wants them to agree to, just so they can make money and be able to stay in the country. And many illegal aliens don't know all the rights that legal workers are supposed to have in this country, and if an illegal complains to a boss about the unfair treatment, its easy for the boss to simply threaten to call immigrations and custom enforcement to have the illegal alien deported out of the country unless they be quiet and don't complain. Since approximately 80% of illegal aliens are hispanics from Mexico, Central America or other latin American countries, many choose to become illegal aliens and would leave the jobs they had in their homeland(not all come here because they were jobless), because they can make much more here in the U.S., even working at a job below minimum wage). The employers who hire illegals this way, save a lot of money by avoiding hiring American workers.
So, while some Americans may be able to find an extra low end job in these tough economic times, but many won't, you see its not always so simple as you might think. There are other things to consider, about why an employer would choose illegal workers over legal ones.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 171
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History
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/16/2008 7:48:32 PM
I think what you fail to realise, Sorot, is no one here is calling illegal immigrants losers. No one here is saying anything except two basic things.

(1) Illegals being here is illegal, hence the "illegal" part of the term illegals.

(2) They are a drain on our economy, shown many times over and over in this thread, to those who refuse to see it, or who make excuses for it. each time the truth is exposed.

Those of us who oppose illegal immigration, have our economy and our future in mind. Name calling and profiling have nothing to do with it. They don't solve this problem. It's funny but two legal immigrants I know who came here from Mexico are the only guys I've ever heard refer to illegals with any disdain. They both called them wetbacks and had a true disliking for illegals. Why? Because they feel illegals from Mexico made things harder for them. They dislike the fact they are looked at by many as second class citizens when they did all the right things and made all the right moves. Legal immigrants from countries with soaring illegal immigrant numbers suffer worse than anyone, and I'm shocked they aren't a louder voice than Americans in all of this.

As far as Mexico toughening their border, they actually want to see Americans come in. They know it spells more money for the economy. It's an absolute reversal of the whole situation. Who are the idiots in all of it? Not Mexico. You got that right. It's those who refuse to see the problems illegal immigration causes or turn a blind eye to it. Those who refuse to do anything about for fear of something stupid like losing votes. Those who don't want to harm our relations with our southern neighbors. But the bad news is, the "land of plenty" is quickly becoming the "land of not enough". And if and when it becomes the "land of none at all" illegal immigrants with be a major contributor to it.
 soulmate08
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 172
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History
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/17/2008 12:12:22 AM

All (Illegal Immigrants) Aboard ICE Air
On This Airline, Passengers Get One-Way Flights, Mixed Emotions and Huge Adjustments
By DAN HARRIS and AUDE SOICHET
SAN MIGUEL, El Salvador, Dec. 16, 2008
ICE Air could be the busiest airline you've never heard of. It serves 30 countries, tickets are free and unlike most carriers, it gives each passenger a complimentary meal. But to secure a flight, you need to be an illegal immigrant.

ICE is a one-way airline operated by the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency.
(ABC)ICE is a one-way airline operated by the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency. At a time when most airlines are cutting flights and adding fees for aisle seats, extra luggage and snacks, ICE air is growing by about 10 percent a year.

"We've actually added aircraft to our fleet, and we're actually seeing an increase in the number of aliens being moved around the country and out of the country," said Michael Pitts, the chief of flight operations.

When illegal immigrants are caught, they're flown to one of three hubs in Texas, Arizona or Louisiana. From there, ICE Air has daily flights to Central American countries such as El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras, and also frequent flights to Nicaragua, Mexico, Ecuador, Colombia and the Caribbean. When it gets enough immigrants to fill a plane, it also flies to Asia, eastern Europe and Africa.

ICE Air leases nine planes, and sometimes it also charters commercial jets. It flies six days a week.


A flight starts with a 2 a.m. wake-up. The illegal immigrants are rousted at a detention center where they eat breakfast, pack and ponder an involuntary trip home.

David Garcia was held at a detention center in Raymondville, Texas, before he was deported to El Salvador after 16 years in the United States.

"I have two kids over here," said Garcia, who came to the United States illegally and had been working in construction since the age of 19.

"I left a big part of my life behind," he said, choking up. "I have to start all over again. I don't know what I'm going to do over there. … It's kind of difficult, you know, but there's a lot of feelings going on me right now."

Garcia acknowledges that the United States "is not our country. We do not have the documents that we need to need to be there."
Jacqueline Ceciliano, who was working as a hotel housekeeper in New Jersey, was on the same flight as Garcia. She would see her two children for the first time in four years.

When asked if she was happy to be going home, she suppressed a sob as she said, "Oh, yes, yes … I'm happy."

Like many others, she wouldn't be able to send money home anymore, but she said she didn't care.

"I like this country. Everybody's nice. I like it, but I miss my babies. I miss my babies too much."

Security on ICE Air is, as you might imagine, pretty tough. Passengers are patted down before they get on a bus to go to the airport, and are then patted down again before getting on the plane. Unarmed security guards double as flight attendants, but the service is actually quite friendly.

"For most of these folks, they've had a long journey getting here to the United States. They've been in custody anywhere from two days to two weeks to two months, so we want to make sure that once they get onboard they have a favorable impression of the government," said Pitts.
Last year, ICE flew more than 209,000 illegal immigrants. Their numbers have increased as the government has cracked down on illegals, and the people at ICE Air say they're saving the U.S. taxpayers money.

"What it costs us is about $680 per alien on a foreign removal flight," said Pitts. "So that's about a third of the cost it would be to get them a commercial ticket."


Some of the flights are exclusively for people convicted of crimes. On one flight to Mexico, all the passengers wore handcuffs and leg irons.

Guadelupe Cabarena, who was sentenced to five years for aggravated assault and turned over to ICE after her release, said she expected to come back to the United States.

"As a matter of fact, I was thinking just to rent a hotel room for tonight in Laredo or whatever, and then just to rest. ... I'm tired ... and then just come back," she said.

Raul Cornelia Pena, who served six years for solicitation to commit burglary, was being returned to Mexico for the second time.

"I didn't have no choice, because I wasn't going to leave my family behind and just say forget it," he said. "They sending me with no money, no nothing, I don't know anybody. I don't know what I'm going to do."
Deported to Home Country, Planning to 'Start All Over'
Pitts acknowledged that some of those deported return.

"There are going to be some aliens that do return back across the borders, but we're going to be there for them, if we don't take them out at the point of entry or between the point of entry, then we will get them in the interior of the United States," he said.

He said it's "a given" that some repeat offenders will return, "but by securing our borders and beefing up immigration enforcement we know that they'll be cut once again and returned."

Pitts said that those who have entered illegally must be returned home. "We need to respect the sovereignty of our nation as a whole. If you want to come in the country; you need to come in the country legally."


After the flight to El Salvador landed in the capital city, passengers were served a traditional El Salvadoran meal and offered free employment training.

After a brief interview and a criminal background check, they were allowed to leave.

"I feel kind of weird, you know, everything is going to be new for me," Garcia said.

Returning home, he had to stop to ask for directions several times and was overwhelmed to see his father and the rest of his family. The home he returned to was basic, with water coming from a well and animals everywhere.

"I'm happy, but I'm sad at the same time," Garcia said. "Everything is going to start all over again over here and ... I don't know how is going to be my life here. But I am going to try my best to success, you know."

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Nightline/Story?id=6472915&page=3
this was shown in australia news.. i found it interesting the figures/costs.. and the vast races of illegal immigration.

peace
 ManeRider
Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 173
view profile
History
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/17/2008 7:40:44 AM

@ Mane...what the typical Betty Buckhead does after losing her job, is to collect unemployment for six months, without REALLY looking for another job. The illegal immigrant probably makes about the same amount of money working some menial job, that Betty collects sitting at home, eating bon bons while watching the soaps.

Obviously, we see things much differently. In fact, I know different.
There are, indeed, people lining up for a service our country offers, unemployment, something these drastic times of rising unemployment call for. Ironically, unemployment is something that probably isn't offered in Mexico, and many countries of latin america.

You know, all this talk about the illegals working and having 'stuff' had me thinking about the 'immigrant mentality' which is to make as much money as you can while you can. I thought to myself, if the illegals are working....there MUST be jobs out there.
Funny. That thought had me thinking what a financial drain it is for the US to have all that money being sent to Mexico and parts south. Furthermore, I still can't get past the "illegal" aspect of "illegal immigrants". Yeah I know, good people, hard workers. WHATEVER. But contrary to what this poster mentions, jobs are dropping like cakes at a bake sale. people are l-o-s-i-n-g ... jobs.... and there are sub-cultures in our society that allow illegals to have access to many jobs that is, thus, preventing many americans from getting hired.

So, if there are jobs out there that the illegals are doing, why would we not take those jobs, and deny them the opportunity to make that money that rightfully belongs to us?
Because we're documented. Until our gov't demands documentation, illegals will have an upper hand at getting jobs under the table, under the tax radar, and undermining Americans across the nation. If Joe American is seeking a painting job, and as an experienced painter, he's expecting $15-20 per hour, Hose A and Hose B are willing to do the job wihtout taxation for the same money. They're undermining his abilities to work, namely because he's got taxes to pay, social security to pay, and insurances to buy. And in case this newflash comes as a surprise, we still live under the same system we always have. There are millions of people looking for work right now and some greedy business-people are accustomed to having work done via illegal immigrants, thus disabling the american people the opportuity to take those jobs. The gov't is going to have to intervene and fine or imprison employers who hire illegals, thus freeing up the job market that ilegals have cornered. This, ironically, would solve much of our present financial woes for many out of work and displaced Americans.
 Brandie46
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 174
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/17/2008 12:51:02 PM
redwood said:
Not all employers think this way,...

ManeRider said:
Obviously, we see things much differently...


Thanks for the response. You're both correct. I am speaking from personal experience, and MY experiences with undocumented immigrants has indeed been different from what I've seen posted here.

In fact, all the ones I knew (none of them latinos by the way) were skilled, educated and hard working and initially came here legally with either visitor's or student visas.

Brandie46
 dmotz
Joined: 11/19/2008
Msg: 175
Solutions to illegal immigration?
Posted: 12/17/2008 2:55:51 PM
With he current economy now would be an excellent time to round them all up...send them packing! Take the jobs from the illegals and give them to REAL Americans who have lost their's. Some say we Americans are to lazy to work the jobs the illegals do...for cheap wages...now lets see. Kick them all the hell out of this country and watch those unemployed Americans go after the jobs...a lesson for us all!
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