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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/5/2008 10:11:41 AM | I personally think that the people who advocate for the lives of cold bloodied killers should be forced to live a week in a jail cell with the very killers who they defend, guaranteed they will stop utilizing their tambourines for Kumbaya and utilize it to defend themselves. :)
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/5/2008 11:53:09 AM | It's not that I mind the death penalty so much.
It's just that nobody wants to guarantee it.
If the prosecution feels that strongly about seeking the death penalty, if they are so sure they have the right perpetrator, then they should put up their own life as a guarantee.
If it's ever discovered that the state has executed an innocent man, then the lead prosecutor must forfeit his own life as retribution.
An eye for an eye after all.
Shouldn't that make everybody happy ? | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/5/2008 1:52:16 PM | | Cazy is not an excuse. All child molesters would be executed if I was a judge, but I am not so I will be at peace with the warning that Jesus gave them, "...it would be better to tie a mill stone around your neck and jump into the water..." | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/5/2008 3:05:54 PM |
A counselor for the Corrections Corporation of America, the nation's largest private operator of prisons, was stabbed to death by an inmate, becoming the first employee to die in job-related violence in the company's 19-year history. The counselor, Delbert Steed, 57, was stabbed in the back with a homemade weapon while meeting with the prisoner, who was serving two life sentences for murder at the Hardeman County Correctional Facility in Whiteville, some 50 miles northeast of Memphis, company officials said. David Firestone (NYT)
This is *exactly* why I am in favour of the death penalty - it ensures that person will never kill again. Even in prison for life without parole, they can (and some do) kill more people. | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/5/2008 3:19:23 PM | Should he have been spared execution due to not being mentally fit?
I would ask, how is any human "mentally fit" that could harm another human for the shear enjoyment, pleasure or whatever they get out of it?
We need real consequences in this country to deter crimes against others if the death sentence is it then we need a fast track in place. | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/5/2008 4:36:12 PM | This sounds like a wonderful idea.
I second it.
Well except for the fact that execution costs more than life imprisonment.
I would ask, how is any human "mentally fit" that could harm another human for the shear enjoyment, pleasure or whatever they get out of it?
We need real consequences in this country to deter crimes against others if the death sentence is it then we need a fast track in place.
You should really start doing some research on violent crime such as murder. It's usually a crime of passion. Not a "thrill kill"
This is *exactly* why I am in favour of the death penalty - it ensures that person will never kill again. Even in prison for life without parole, they can (and some do) kill more people.
Wait a minute, so one person in a private companies 19 year history is unacceptable, but dead innocent people from executions is A-OK. | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/5/2008 4:41:30 PM |
Well except for the fact that execution costs more than life imprisonment.
Not if you flip the switch right after conviction.
When you feed clothe and house them on death row for 10 or 15 years tieing up the court system with appeals, then yes it does cost more. Another reason for swift punishment. | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/5/2008 4:46:33 PM |
You should really start doing some research on violent crime such as murder. It's usually a crime of passion.
As well should you. How could someone that gets murded by a complete stranger be a crime of passion?
You come home and find someone banging your wife and kill them, now that is a crime of passion. | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/5/2008 4:48:04 PM | I had a relative, 21 years old died the same way just doing his job keeping the bad guys a way. I am not one to say kill them all but if they are to be killed do it quick. I also do not think life in prison is a fair punishment as I do not want to feed or shelter them. I think if we are not going to kill them quick they should be put in a place a way from humans to fend for themselves.
A counselor for the Corrections Corporation of America, the nation's largest private operator of prisons, was stabbed to death by an inmate, becoming the first employee to die in job-related violence in the company's 19-year history. The counselor, Delbert Steed, 57, was stabbed in the back with a homemade weapon while meeting with the prisoner, who was serving two life sentences for murder at the Hardeman County Correctional Facility in Whiteville, some 50 miles northeast of Memphis, company officials said. David Firestone (NYT)
This is *exactly* why I am in favour of the death penalty - it ensures that person will never kill again. Even in prison for life without parole, they can (and some do) kill more people | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/5/2008 6:46:12 PM |
If the prosecution feels that strongly about seeking the death penalty, if they are so sure they have the right perpetrator, then they should put up their own life as a guarantee.
Same for the Defense Attorney?
If a criminal gets off and goes free. Then commits another crime. Then the Defense Attorney should get should get life without parole or the death penalty.
I think you would see the conviction rates go up. | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/5/2008 8:19:25 PM | | I don't want to see a innocent person murdered.................I don't think anyone does. Everyone does agree that with DNA evidence ( for the death penalty ) they should swiftly die. I hope none of the people that are advocates for muderers are not murdered also..................then they would be a victim , no wait, as they said they would just be dead right ? | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/5/2008 8:27:18 PM |
Same for the Defense Attorney?
If a criminal gets off and goes free. Then commits another crime. Then the Defense Attorney should get should get life without parole or the death penalty.
I think you would see the conviction rates go up.
I agree 100%.
I would like to take it a step further and include the parole board as well. If they release one of these animals and they go on a killing spree again, I think the parole board should be held criminally liable for their decision. | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/5/2008 8:32:28 PM | ^^^ Good lord people. And....there goes the justice system.
I'm for one glad that there's a lot of "tests" you usually have to pass before you are in the position to actually make these kinds of decisions. | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/5/2008 8:38:32 PM | | I agree, Europeans are too soft. But the problem is: Who is taking on himself that bad lack of killing somebody? If somebody else does, fine, but I won't. The only person I could kill is myself or somebody treathening an innocent under my own eyes, right here, right now. For the rest, I want good karma, sorry. | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/5/2008 9:43:44 PM | Not if you flip the switch right after conviction.
Oh that won't lead to a massive increase in wrongful executions,
Considering since 1973 there have been 124 cases if people found innocent while on death row, that would make you and ever other advocate of a fast track execution system the worst serial killer in history.
If a criminal gets off and goes free. Then commits another crime. Then the Defense Attorney should get should get life without parole or the death penalty.
What a great way to see NOBODY get a defense lawyer, and have a massive increase of wrongful convictions. Hell if you're going to have this system, why not road side executions for those who police think look guilty? because you're pretty much advocating the equivilant.
I agree, Europeans are too soft. But the problem is: Who is taking on himself that bad lack of killing somebody? If somebody else does, fine, but I won't. The only person I could kill is myself or somebody treathening an innocent under my own eyes, right here, right now. For the rest, I want good karma, sorry.
Somehow the Europeans (and Canada) have much lower murder rates, despite being "soft"
I'm for one glad that there's a lot of "tests" you usually have to pass before you are in the position to actually make these kinds of decisions.
Yes, a basic education in the legal system is usually required to make these kinds of decisions. It's amazing how some people are completely blind to the ramification of their proposals, and the opportunity for abuse. | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/6/2008 5:31:36 AM | I must agree with the people advocating "life in prison" currently
being LESS expensive as compared to someone being handed a
death sentence. At least within the United States. This is why......
Before I show these statistics as well as references, I will state
I am an avid supporter of the death penalty. In stating this,
it's apparent that our quote "justice" system needs revamping.
The reason the death sentence is more expensive is due to the fact
of lengthy appeals. This cost to the state as well as tax payers
of that particular state accure this cost upfront, as compared to
someone who receives a life sentence and the cost is gradual over
per say 40 years.
When death sentences are handed out, more times to none, they are
never imposed. Even when death sentences ARE imposed, they are
rarely given.
In texas alone....approximately 1/3 of the death sentences handed
our are actually given. Approximate cost per death penalty handed
out is 2.3 million dollars per case.
Summing this up. Our nation is housing known murderers all due
to financial reasons. It's for economic reasons not for reasons
of justice for the victims of these killers. What a sad society we
live within.
Our appeals process needs to be revamped. I do not support making
appeals less short however, I do support making them less expensive,
meaning...I feel lawyers should have caps on their salaries, most
defense lawyers love these particular cases because they know the
outcome of money they will receive is endless. Of course this excludes
the not for profit organizations who actually do this for free for
their clients, they are performing humanitarian work, which I feel
is a good thing.
When someone has been handed a death sentence, they should be allowed
the appeals process, no matter what they have done in the eyes of
the law to receive it, we are talking about people's lives and if
those of us who truly advocate for victim's lives, we can not shun
the rights of law to criminals however, we should all be advocating
that the appeals process does need revamping from a financial
sense and the lawyers who deal with these cases need to stop
benefiting financially off the pain and suffering of not only
the victims who were murdered but the lives of criminals. Lawyers
are literally getting rich off people's lives on both sides of
the fence here. Murderers are not the only criminals present in murder trials in my eyes....aka...lawyers.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/COcosttestimony.pdf | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/6/2008 7:56:58 AM | It is far saner to spend 20 cents for a bullet than spend $20k per year to house someone who refuses to play nice.
Besides, execution guarantees that they won't do it again and rids society of a predator. | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/6/2008 8:10:11 AM |
Yes, a basic education in the legal system is usually required to make these kinds of decisions. It's amazing how some people are completely blind to the ramification of their proposals, and the opportunity for abuse.
We need to close the revolving door of our prison system. Making the people in the decision making process accountable would be a good start. Maybe some of the proposals do have some ramifications, but a lot of us are getting very tired of seeing repeat violent offenders being let out of prison because a few "educated" parole board members think the prisoner they just released has been "rehabilitated".
Do they have some crystal ball that we don't know about that makes their opinion any better that the average citizen? It doesn't take much of an education to see that if a guy has 3 counts of murder on his rap sheet it's probably not a good idea to let him out. It's called common sense.
Until life without the possibility of parole actually means what it says, I will always be a supporter of the death penalty. | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/6/2008 8:45:12 AM | My theory? eye for an eye........
I wish people would get back what they give to people!
If you rape a child or hurt a child and kill them? I think you should have same done to you.....same goes with anything or anyone else just example.... | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/6/2008 8:46:41 AM | Criminals do not have a basic education in the legal system. What they have is a better education of the legal system. They know how to break the law and get away with it, when caught.
Eg:
A cop can do a search under reasonable suspetion (SP). Criminal gets a lawyer and gets the charges dropped on an Illegal search. | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/6/2008 10:30:29 AM |
Considering since 1973 there have been 124 cases if people found innocent while on death row, that would make you and ever other advocate of a fast track execution system the worst serial killer in history How some people in this world think. Example: Your driving home doing the speed limit someone on a bicycle accidently runs in front of you and they are killed. A Lot of people in this world would call you a Murderer.  Sadam Hussan Deliberately kills Thousands of people. What do a lot of people in this world call him? A Conquerer Go Figure | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/6/2008 12:24:29 PM |
Wait a minute, so one person in a private companies 19 year history is unacceptable, but dead innocent people from executions is A-OK.
How many truly innocent people are put to death via legal execution today? None, IMO. There are enough appeals and ample time for anyone who is "innocent" to have their conviction overturned. Having said that, I do not believe in handing down a death sentence without overwhelming evidence of their guilt, including DNA.
Let's see, though - if we are going to say one life is more valuable than the other - who's would you choose to live - the law abiding correctional officer just doing his job and trying to make a living to feed his family, or the low life scumbag who lived a life of crime before even getting to death row but may be innocent of the charge that got him the death sentence? Because, let's face it - the vast majority of these "people" were not good boys and girls even before the crime that got them to the execution chamber. Hmmmm.... what a decision - NOT. | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/7/2008 5:35:47 PM | A study by Isaac Ehrlich which found that the murder rate responded to changes in the likelihood of execution. He concluded that 7 or 8 murders were prevented by each execution from 1933 to 1967.
http://www.prodeathpenalty.com/DP.html#D.Cost Interesting site that should be researched for food for thought:
There is no question that the up front costs of the death penalty are significantly higher than for equivalent LWOP( Life without parole) cases. There also appears to be no question that, over time, equivalent LWOP cases are much more expensive - from $1.2 to $3.6 million - than death penalty cases. Opponents ludicrously claim that the death penalty costs, over time, 3-10 times more than LWOP.
1) The $34,200 is conservative, if TIME Magazine's (2/7/94) research is accurate. TIME found that, nationwide, the average cell cost is $24,000/yr. and the maximum security cell cost is $75,000/yr. (as of 12/95). Opponents claim that LWOP should replace the DP. Therefore, any cost calculations should be based specifically on cell costs for criminals who have committed the exact same category of offense - in other words, cost comparisons are valid only if you compare the costs of DP-equivalent LWOP cases to the cost of DP cases. The $34,200/yr. cell cost assumes that only 20% of the DP-equivalent LWOP cases would be in maximum security cost cells and that 80% of the DP-equivalent LWOP cases would be in average cost cells. A very conservative estimate. The $60,000/yr., for those on death row, assumes that such cells will average a cost equal to 80% of the $75,000/yr. for the most expensive maximum security cells. A very high estimate. Even though we are calculating a 75% greater cell cost for the DP than for equivalent LWOP cases, equivalent LWOP cases appear to be significantly more expensive, over time, than their DP counterparts. For years, opponents have improperly compared the cost of all LWOP cases to DP cases, when only the DP equivalent LWOP cases are relevant.
And this on the religious front:
2) " . . . pronouncements about divine behavior (in the Hebrew Bible) correlated in the judicial context to attitudes toward death as a proper punishment. Quite clearly, the New Testament carries on the earlier mentality." As Jesus described in the Sermon on the Mount, "Obedience will be rewarded with life; disobedience will be punished with destruction. A God who rewards with life and punishes with death is One whose laws provide for death as a judicial punishment." Dr. Baruch Levine, "Capital Punishment," p 31, What the Bible Really Says, ed. Smith & Hoffman, 1993.
This on repeat offenders:
The argument that murderers are the least likely of all criminals to repeat their crimes is not only irrelevant, but also increasingly false. 6% of young adults paroled in 1978 after having been convicted of murder were arrested for murder again within 6 years of release. ("Recidivism of Young Parolees," 4, 1987, BJS). Murderers have so violated the human rights of their victims and of society that it should be a moral imperative that they never again have that opportunity.
And here a bit of info on death row inmates:
9-15% of those on death row committed, at least, one additional murder, prior to that murder (or those murders) which has currently put them on death row; 67% had a prior felony conviction; 42% had an active criminal justice status when they committed their capital offense; 14% of those sentenced to death from 1988-94, had received two or more death sentences ("Capital Punishment 1994", BJS 1995 & JFA). Should we err on the side of caution and protect the innocent and honor the memories of those murdered or should we give murderers the opportunity to harm again? Should we put prison personnel and other prisoners at any additional risk from known murderers? Prisoners on death row are 250% more likely to murder, in prison, than are prisoners in the general population. Lester, D., "Suicide and Homicide on Death Row", American Journal of Psychiatry, 143, 559, 1986. | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/7/2008 5:58:08 PM | I think the death penalty is usually justified. In fact, they don't do it enough.
A life for a life. If a life is sacred, then those who disrespect this should be put to death. Karma at its best, my friends.
If a person is put to death, here are the possibilities:
They were guilty and instead of having thousands of dollars go to their survival, they are put out of everyone else's misery. (Prisoners get free healthcare, you know... free food, free shelter. The easiest way to mooch off the government is to commit a crime. My father has been a prison guard for 30 years, so I know how much funding goes to it.)
They were innocent. When someone goes to death row, it's not without much deliberation. Was this person not killed, they would most likely spend their lives in jail, being anally raped by the real murders. Oh, what a wonderful existence! I would rather die.
Either way, the money could go to schools and orphanages to raise proper, educated children. Most murders and other criminals come from mostly how they were raised. Here we go with nurture vs. nature, though. I say: To Hell with the murderers, to peace, (not torture,) to those few convicted wrongly. Let us evolve the world, use the budget for good and eliminate what inevitably hurts the innocent. People inevitably die. No one is immortal.
To those who say no one should be put to death, I pose this: Is it better for children in countries that cannot afford healthcare or food to starve to death or for some perverted rapist to be killed for their sins? Is it worth the death of a corrupted individual to make it easier for several others to go to college to study cancer and become able to save the innocent?
Place punishment where punishment is due and assist those that deserve assistance. This will help the world. | |
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