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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/11/2008 12:06:25 PM | I don't have a criminal record of any kind. The chances that I'd ever have to worry about it are slim because I make choices that keep me on the right side of the law.
Most of the people who have their convictions overturned are people who were suspects because they had a history of criminal activity. And I'm all for lighting those punks up. | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/11/2008 12:13:32 PM |
an inmate what was serving 2 life sentences.
As a jumping off point I would say do the same with such inmates as we do with corrections officers who kill inmates (and, yes, it does happen).
While I cannot in good conscience defend and support a flawed criminal justice system, nor can I say that I am broken hearted when the death penalty is carried out on murderers of multiple persons against whom the evidence is indisputable and overwhelming. However, there seems to be a vast difference of opinion between people as to what IS 'indisputable and overwhelming' evidence. I suspect this generation woulld have passed on by the time wording specific enough to satisfy all parties was hammered out. | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/11/2008 12:16:28 PM |
I'd argue that you can't justify death penalty as a policy based on individual circumstances.
That's how it is done. The most extreme heinous crimes are eligible for the Death penalty.
It's not supposed to apply to everyone, only in extreme instances.
Just like the example of the guy that continued to murder while in Prison.
Nothing but death will stop a guy like that.
Who will protect his next innocent victim?
How do you protect people from those who will never stop killing?
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/11/2008 12:19:56 PM | When they are on death row..........unfortunately they are allowed the right of appeal ,after appeal, after appeal thats where the cost comes in. Usually a State appointed attorney. The can be on death row insome states up to 15 or 20 years while the appeal system is in place.
Nice if they would just set an execution date for the following week, but that not the way the system works.
As for the OP's question...I vote for the death penalty for sexual crimes against children, after the perp has been in general poopulation for a month. And not in the perp wing. I MEAN GENERAL POPULATION | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/11/2008 12:21:30 PM | | I dont think anyone has the right to kill unless its under self defense. This country has killed so many people for different reason and they think thats the right thing to do but only one has that right and that is god almighty. No matter what the reason is you should not take alife | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/11/2008 12:33:27 PM | Flipper, apparently you haven't informed yourself about the backgrounds of all convicted murderers. For instance, Ted Bundy (whom you probably will agree was one of the more prolific known murderers in US history), appeared to be a model citizen. He was an up-and-coming member of the Republican party and at one time a Senator's Aide.
Even if a person has a history of past criminal activity that is not evidence of current criminal behavior.
All it takes is being in the wrong place at the wrong time, maybe associating with the wrong person (whether the culprit or victim), to find yourself arrested (at which point someone probably with POVs similar to your own will say "He MUST have done something wrong/be guilty or the police wouldn't have arrested him.") and standing accused.
A sick, twisted part of me would love to see someone like you wrongly accused so you can experience first hand how worthless the indigent defense system is and how lives can hinge on the prejudices of the ignorant sheeple. | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/11/2008 12:35:49 PM |
Nice if they would just set an execution date for the following week, but that not the way the system works
And if it was how the system worked the blood of over 100 innocent people would be on your hands. | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/11/2008 12:48:04 PM |
I dont think anyone has the right to kill unless its under self defense. This country has killed so many people for different reason and they think thats the right thing to do but only one has that right and that is god almighty. No matter what the reason is you should not take alife
When our nation kills someone who has without a doubt murdered/raped and caused PURE mayhem upon our society...it IS in self defense. Self defense of our citizens in which we are protecting. | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/11/2008 1:50:06 PM |
Ever here the saying
No. Ever hear (that's h-e-a-r) most people in prison are of below average intelligence and reading ability?
And so what if a few "innoccent" people get offed along the way.
Let us pray you won't be one of those innocents although I appreciate irony.
Would it work considerably better if we didn't have so many scumbags to sift through when we are prosecuting a crime? You bettcha. You cut down on the crime rate, and the police and prosecutors will be able to cut down on mistakes.
Don't forget about the scumbag crooked law enforcement personnel and prosecutors who manufacture 'evidence' while you're at it. What I think would help to unburden the criminal justice system is for states to have to reimburse defense expenses to those who are found innocent. I believe we would see far less prosecutorial cases being filed on circumstantial evidence.
I didn't call you ignorant sheeple but considering your poor spelling skills I guess poor reading comprehension is to be expected.
I don't consider myself to be a goody-two-shoes type. I've had the distasteful experience of watching innocent people railroaded for crimes they didn't commit. Through my work I dealt with many youthful offenders. Some wound up with life sentences and two on death row (Sean Sellers and Lloyd LaFevers). I believe all of them were guilty of the crimes they were alleged to have committed. Sean admitted his guilt. He and Lloyd have since been executed. I did not lobby for commuting their sentences nor did I join the anti-death-penalty vigils pending those executions.
I have been approached by prisoners convicted of far lesser crimes regarding help with their appeals. The most recent was a man who believed his rights had been violated. I explained to him that even if his rights were violated and his conviction was overturned based on such a finding all that would accomplish was a new trial at which he would be convicted once again because he is guilty so he should just suck it up, do his time, and stop listening to 'jailhouse attorneys.' Yeah... I'm a real bleeding heart liberal. | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/11/2008 2:00:31 PM | No. Ever hear (that's h-e-a-r) most people in prison are of
below average intelligence and reading ability?
Ever hear of advocating for programs for these poor illiterate people? This is what
makes me laugh about people who advocate for lives of killers. I'm
speaking about people who without a doubt performed the crime as
in DNA evidence or was caught in the process of performing such
crimes. People advocate for their lives and then scream..poor
little illiterate idiot...this makes it ok....it does not! I do
not view people against the death penalty who make these silly
remarks out in THOSE particular neighborhoods trying to make a
difference but yet they will stand with their tambourines and
marijuana outside the jails singing kumbaya...it's absolutely
ridiculous.
Windroper...I do see that you are an advocate for fair representation,
I am as well. My question here is to end the innocent people
being convicted what must our society do in your opinion to stop
this injustice? I stand for rights of victims, whether they are
being represented by the DA or a defense attorney,,it seems no one
has an answer for this, including myself.
However, on the other hand, I say fry the murderers who without
a doubt have performed heinous crimes. I do not care about the
economic standpoint of the issue, I"m about justice for the victims
and their loved ones who are left behind to relive the horror
of what their family member or loved one suffered upon their death. | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/11/2008 2:42:30 PM |
Ever hear of advocating for programs for these poor illiterate people?
Why advocate for what already exists? Duplication of services is a waste of resources.
I'm speaking about people who without a doubt performed the crime as
in DNA evidence or was caught in the process of performing such crimes.
To the best of my knowledge cases involving apprehension during the commission of murder are rare. Witnesses may exist but are not always reliable. It has been documented there are cases in which DNA evidence has been misrepresented by the prosecution and its experts and innocent persons were sentenced to life in prison or death. Therefore, if I was to serve on a jury, I would not be impressed by DNA evidence.
People advocate for their lives and then scream..poor little illiterate idiot...this makes it ok....it does not!
Although I am not such a person I suspect you are misunderstanding what some such advocates are trying to communicate. It is not that the defendant's educational background justify his/her actions. But when Lil' Johnny comes from a disadvantaged home/neighborhood (where schools have been proved to be sub-standard), does not have the encouragement/support of and probably has been abused/neglected by parents (who also probably are illiterate), what do you think he/she is going to grow up to be? A rocket scientist? Circumstances beyond his/her control put him/her at risk to engage in criminal activity for survival, and some of those persons are going to end up taking a life during the commission of a felony or due to poor impulse control. It doesn't excuse/justify the behavior but it does repeatedly point to a societal problem which is not being adequately addressed; therefore, such scenarios will continue to happen, possibly with increased frequency. But as you have pointed out, identifying problems is easier than identifying solutions. And that's why those advocates (or some of them) are out there.
My question here is to end the innocent people being convicted what must our society do in your opinion to stop this injustice?
One thing I believe would help is what I mentioned in an earlier post -- state reimbursement to acquitted persons for defense expenses could help to reduce the number of overzealous prosecutions of innocent persons and wrongful convictions. Another problem that needs to be addressed is defense access to lab procedures. Frequently a person is not charged (may not even be arrested and held) until after DNA evidence has been examined/tested. By then there may be inadequate DNA material remaining for the defense to conduct independent testing IF such testing is within the means of the defendant. Despite common misconceptions, there is not a lot of money spent on indigent defense, and it is a drop in the bucket compared to the resources of the prosecutor.
I"m about justice for the victims and their loved ones who are left behind to relive the horror of what their family member or loved one suffered upon their death.
Not all surviving loved ones of murder victims desire the life of the perpetrator be forfeit. I'm not saying those who do are wrong. I'm just saying they all don't share a common perspective on the subject either. | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/11/2008 2:44:33 PM | Hear and here.......I was typing fast and didn't catch it. That's not exactly a misspelling, but if it makes you feel better to have pointed it out......Whatever.
You can rest assured that I won't be "one of those" people. I don't associate with the kind of people who end up in jail.
What I think would unburden the justice system is to close all of the loop holes in the law, create severe FIRST TIME penalties, limit appeals, and make prison suck for criminals, instead of making it vocational school for thugs.
I guess in a perfect world we could trade all the people you've known who have been "railroaded" for crimes they didn't commit, for the child abusers and rapists who get to roam free. Like I said the system isn't perfect. I'm aware that along with the criminals, there are crooked cops, shady lawyers, and pocket judges out there. My point is that most of the time the people who are found guilty are indeed guilty. It's not politically correct, but I wish they'd shoot those people in the hallway of the courthouse. Case closed. The end. Wash your hands, bring in the next guy. (and yes SO WHAT if one out of 5,000 are innocent ** it happens)
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/11/2008 2:56:42 PM | Why advocate for what already exists? Duplication of
services is a waste of resources.
Obviously there are lack of these programs, otherwise, how
can the majority of the prison population be "illiterate"? :) According
to you anyways.
To the best of my knowledge cases involving apprehension
during the commission of murder are rare. Witnesses may exist but
are not always reliable. It has been documented there are cases in
which DNA evidence has been misrepresented by the prosecution and
its experts and innocent persons were sentenced to life in prison
or death. Therefore, if I was to serve on a jury, I would not be
impressed by DNA evidence.
What you speak of is VERY rare. I'm sure there are many fathers
out there who would LOVE to utilize your analogy with paternity
suits.
Although I am not such a person I suspect you are
misunderstanding what some such advocates are trying to
communicate. It is not that the defendant's educational
background justify his/her actions. But when Lil' Johnny comes
from a disadvantaged home/neighborhood (where schools have been
proved to be sub-standard), does not have the encouragement/support
of and probably has been abused/neglected by parents
(who also probably are illiterate), what do you think he/she is
going to grow up to be?
Yet you said there are programs that DO exist to aid the illiterate
part of our neighborhoods therefore no need to advocate for them
but then you turn around and use it once again as an excuse for
people who murder. Which is it? It can't be both sides here.
Circumstances beyond his/her control put him/her at risk
to engage in criminal activity for survival,
Stealing food to feed your family is a crime for survival. NOT
raping and murdering toddlers and eating them.
One thing I believe would help is what I mentioned in an
earlier post -- state reimbursement to acquitted persons for
defense expenses could help to reduce the number of overzealous
prosecutions of innocent persons and wrongful convictions.
This is a VERY noble idea however, it will never work. Reason
being, even with the states that offer compensation to victims of
particular crimes...the individual states tie it up for so long with
red tape and bureaucracies that the victims more times to none
just give up and go on with their lives...I feel the same would
happen with what you mentioned...however, in all fairness, I have
only experienced New York State's red tape in dealing with this manner.
Not all surviving loved ones of murder victims desire the
life of the perpetrator be forfeit. I'm not saying those who do
are wrong. I'm just saying they all don't share a common
perspective on the subject either.
I can not argue this fact but.....where I can state that not ALL victim's family share the "eye for an eye" mentality, I would bet serious money that the majority do have that
mentality.
The one thing I will add here is that I do NOT advocate for appeals to be shorter...EVERYONE is and should be entitled to the appeals process, but I advocate
for the appeals process to be less expensive as well as salary caps per case be placed on Defense Attorneys. | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 7/11/2008 3:48:17 PM | | sorry he deserves to be hanged dead and gone in my eyes. if that was in his mind to do what he did and never seeked help before he did it . he is a bad man who desreves to suffer and be dead ,,,,,, | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 8/20/2008 1:25:31 PM | Are you out of your mind, no matter what someone has done! What a statement, about 35 years ago, a fella driving thu a small town in Ark, stopped at a gas station, said hello, purchased gas and drove away. He then stopped 100 ft up the street saw the little girl that just left the station, to give her a ride. 2 days later they found her, beaten with a pipe, etc,etc,etc. he then proceeded to FLorida doing the same over and over again.
What should they do with him, house, feed, and clothe him for 40+ years.
get a grip.
I'll bet you voted for OBAMA too. You know the guy talking about how he can asist the 57 states. OOPS what 57, there are only 50 US States. OH right the 57 ISLAMIC states, he wants to help. | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 9/2/2008 5:11:08 PM | | When an individual, especially as depraved as this one, has forfeited the right to life of someone else, he himself (or she herself) has therefore forfeited his own right to life. This was obviously a premeditated act: if he had the time and intelligence to plan such a vicious crime, he should have had the same time and intelligence to realise that society would catch up with him, and what would happen when it did. | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 9/2/2008 6:34:43 PM | | i am not a fan of the death penalty either.... Personally, its a real waste of human life to execute..i would rather mentor or rehabilitate !!However, in my opinion it is absolutely the punishment of last choice for those members of society who violated other people with such disrespect..oh, for those who say it isn't a deterrant.. i am pretty sure the person executed will not be violating some helpless person again !!!!! bikerguy | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 9/2/2008 7:36:50 PM | if it is proofen without a doupt that they have the right person . facts , dna and all that good stuff , then I have to say , find the tallest tree and hang them high ......
but we dont have to go over sea's , we have it right here in the US ...
all you have to do is the victims families . a mother that lost her child , a father and the rest of the family. ask them ....
I say yes it is justified .
no matter mentaly fit or not , that is even worse , what you gonna do with a person like this . lord forbit you lock him up , he gets on the loose again , he will do the same over and over again ......because he is mentaly unfit ....
so I dont wonna have nothing like that as a neighbor ... bad enough Im dealing with a convicted child molester right now  | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 9/2/2008 7:42:54 PM | no death penalty for the mentally ill ??
almost all killers are freaking mentally ill,
personaly, I could really give a rats behind
whatever 'defense' they use . .if they did ,
the did it . . .the death penalty has proven
over and over to be a deterrent . .
not one of them has come back from the grave to kill again . .
 they have other things on thier mind | |
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