| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 6/18/2008 5:18:28 AM | | If one feels that "The only time it is justifiable to kill another human being is ... [includes] the case of police in the line of dutyPolice in the line of duty," think of how many people, especially "Black" and "Brown" people have been killed by trigger-happy cops, among them Margaret Mitchell (not the "Gone With the Wind" author, but the mentally ill namesake, a Black woman so petite that she was not even 100 pounds when wet, killed because cops claimed she had "threatened" them with a screwdriver as she was pushing a grocery shopping cart), Amadou Diallo (an African immigrant whose being fatally shot by 41 bullets by cops "mistaking" his cell phone for a gun became the subject of that Bruce Springsteen song "41 Bullets") and Sean Bell, the groom-to-be recently killed by 50 cop bullets as he left a "bachelor party" at a Queens bar. | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 6/18/2008 5:20:02 AM |
I would agree that most mental illness defenses are fraudulent, but not all....
Andrea Yates was the first insanity defense that I ever encountered where I think it held water. At least on a murder charge.
I know a man who has schizophrenia. who thought his brother had been kidnapped by space aliens and replaced by an evil replica. He leaped out of the closet and beat his brother horribly, screaming at him all the time to let the real brother go. Even though the RESULT was a badly beaten brother, there was zero criminal intent. The man in question was actually being very heroic, taking on what he believed was a powerful evil space alien, armed only with his bare hands and love for his brother. The thing to do in such cases is court ordered medical supervision to make sure he stays on his medications and is put in a locked ward periodically when he starts to get wiggy until he stablizes on new meds.
Having worked with people with debilitating mental illness I can easily imagine cases where a person kills somebody and had no evil intent whatsoever. That said, having a mental illness doesn't mean you can't commit murder. You can think that your brother is a space alien and still be capable of gunning down a convenience store clerk in a robbery and be just as legally and morally culpable as somebody without a mental illness. | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 6/18/2008 7:03:00 AM | Romantic, I don't think you mentioned the victims. Start over at #1 and mention the victims and their families and friends.
What do you tell the family and friends of an executed innocent person?
Maybe the reason you don't have rich white men in prison is that they don't usually rob a banks, steal a car or do a drive by. OOPs O.J. Simpson, rich and black.
As another poster pointed out, they can do worse. They just do it in a manner that makes it harder for justice to be done, indirectly and behind a wall of lawyers and accountants.
True, mistakes have been made, but how long should we feed and house murderers ? Better yet, how long CAN we feed the scum ?
If it were up to me, forever. But it's up to the voters.
Personally, when faced with what humans can do to one another I remember Matthewson's 23rd Edict. "To be angered by evil is to partake of it." | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 6/18/2008 7:16:28 AM | This is why we go round and round on these types of threads, the OP original question is about the serial killer in Tokyo and if he was found mentally ill is executing him acceptable?
Some people thinks no and some of us ( obviously me included) thinks HELL YEA, I for one believe the death penalty should be handed out to all Serial Killers/ Mass murderers, serial violent rapists/molesters that cannot be rehabilitated.
It shouldn't, be handed out for a murder or two, they should spend the rest of their lives in prison, it might cut down the number of innocent people on death row, but in THIS case , where the guy in Tokyo was murdering for a decade or so before he got caught, and to use the Mental illness defense is assinine, he knew what he was doing was wrong, he had the sense ( i hate to use that word) to hide it from the public, so tell me how is that Mental illness? | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 6/18/2008 7:40:21 AM |
IN other words.....if they are proved guilty of murder with DNA evidence, etc...fry their asses.
All good points nona37, as the paradox is endless in how people think.
Unfortunately there are people who are bad and do evil and will never be a productive human being and only cause harm to others.
What gets my goat is when the tambourine folks are protesting the death sentance for a mass murderer, I just wish they would let theses folks who have committed these terrible crimes against society to let them live for lets say a month with the righteous folks and see what happens to their family! They might be singing a different tune when the dog is missing or worse.
And then you got these gals who write and want to marry guys who are on death's row! | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 6/18/2008 9:27:18 AM |
Should he have been spared execution due to not being mentally fit?
I guess you need to define "mentally fit". I am not a lawyer but I think there is a difference between being just mentally ill (which can range from depression to schitzophrenia) and criminally insane. I think the difference is knowing right from wrong at the time of the crime. If this guy showed that he knew what he was doing, and to me, it seemed as if he did know - by hiding his crime for so many years, he knew it was wrong - then I think that he WAS "mentally fit"... or "sane".
As far as locking people up for crimes like murder, and subjecting inmates to horrors such as rape, I don't think that is very humane either. I would suggest a solution such as making the inmates work for their keep. Why do we keep outsourcing manufacturing jobs to China when there is a huge inmate population that should be earning their keep? Make Wal-Mart hire the felons for what they pay Chinese workers, and use their "income" to pay for their food, guards, etc. There you go, I just solved that problem! LOL | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 6/18/2008 10:15:31 AM | | ^^ Because many inmates in max security penitentiaries are as lethal and quick to strike as pit vipers and they just may, while they're working for Wal-Mart, do something occasionally that will shock the other workers for its sheer brutality -- like ripping someone's throat out with a homemade weapon or stabbing another worker so many times they are unrecognizable. For this reason they are kept (rightly IMO) locked away from society and not allowed to work at "normal" jobs, etc, for the rest of their lives in many cases. These are the most dangerous kind of animals there are because, unlike the "lower" animals, these have the capacity to think deeply and malevolently plan to harm you and/or others. I'm anti-DP, as I said before, but definitely pro- 23 hr lockdown per day , standard "supermax" treatment, for the most violent offenders. And if they are in a general population-type situation and therefore have to worry about horrors such as rape, I'm sure they will be able to get by considering they have already shed blood and therefore presumably will not hesitate to violently lash out in self-defense. | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 6/18/2008 10:28:17 AM |
^^ Because many inmates in max security penitentiaries are as lethal and quick to strike as pit vipers and they just may, while they're working for Wal-Mart, do something occasionally that will shock the other workers for its sheer brutality -- like ripping someone's throat out with a homemade weapon or stabbing another worker so many times they are unrecognizable. For this reason they are kept (rightly IMO) locked away from society and not allowed to work at "normal" jobs, etc, for the rest of their lives in many cases. These are the most dangerous kind of animals there are because, unlike the "lower" animals, these have the capacity to think deeply and malevolently plan to harm you and/or others. I'm anti-DP, as I said before, but definitely pro- 23 hr lockdown per day , standard "supermax" treatment, for the most violent offenders. And if they are in a general population-type situation and therefore have to worry about horrors such as rape, I'm sure they will be able to get by considering they have already shed blood and therefore presumably will not hesitate to violently lash out in self-defense.
Yep that's exactly what happened to Jeffery Dahmer. Got beat to death with a broomstick. Funny how even prisoners believe in justice. | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 6/18/2008 10:29:42 AM | | Unfortunately, not ALL believe that life is sacred. You might change your mind,if you came home and found your children brutally slain,just because of a demented animal. God forbid, but some have. We have laws for a REASON! And people have a 'CHOICE" TO OBEY OR NOT TO OBEY. Hang em!! | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 6/18/2008 10:35:46 AM | This thread has sparked a decent debate on this question. Using this japanese guy who kidnapped, molested, dismembered and consumed TODDLERS, as a current example of what should, in my opinion, be done to like minded criminals in the U.S.
Don't even start on peadophiles. That is another thread and I think they should be fed their own genitalia, then locked in a room with the parents of the children that they hurt or killed. Talk about deterrent.
But I digress again. This thread is about the extreme murderers, who have been captured and proved beyond any reasonable doubt to be the perpetrator of these heinous crimes.
This animal deserved to be hanged.
Does anyone think that he should have been spared?
and if so, WHY?
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 6/18/2008 10:44:08 AM | Does anyone think that he should have been spared?
If he is spared, they should hook up a pair of electrodes to his "family jewels" and repeatedly shock him till he wished he was dead. | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 6/18/2008 10:54:47 AM |
Because many inmates in max security penitentiaries are as lethal and quick to strike as pit vipers and they just may, while they're working for Wal-Mart, do something occasionally that will shock the other workers for its sheer brutality -- like ripping someone's throat out with a homemade weapon or stabbing another worker so many times they are unrecognizable. For this reason they are kept (rightly IMO) locked away from society and not allowed to work at "normal" jobs, etc, for the rest of their lives in many cases. These are the most dangerous kind of animals there are because, unlike the "lower" animals, these have the capacity to think deeply and malevolently plan to harm you and/or others. I'm anti-DP, as I said before, but definitely pro- 23 hr lockdown per day , standard "supermax" treatment, for the most violent offenders. And if they are in a general population-type situation and therefore have to worry about horrors such as rape, I'm sure they will be able to get by considering they have already shed blood and therefore presumably will not hesitate to violently lash out in self-defense.
If these inmates are so sub-human, then why are most of them released back into society? The average time spent for murder (the last I read) was 8 years, in the U.S.A. I was being facetious regarding working for Wal-Mart, however why can't they do something to benefit society instead of sitting on their asses all day, costing taxpayers money and watching tv? I also don't think it is more "humane" to lock them in their cells 23 hours a day, let them be sodomized the other hour. Maybe lethal injections aren't as inhumane as people think.
Why on earth was Jeffrey Dahmer put in the general population? They had to have known he would be killed. That still sounds like vigilantism and revenge to me, no better than the death penalty. | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 6/18/2008 12:11:30 PM | ^^ Some have suspected it was a form of vigilantism, so to speak, on the part of the guards who put him on a work detail where he would be alone with another violent felon, a Christopher Scarver I believe was his name, who was known to be mentally unstable himself. Dahmer was no longer in the shape he was in prior to the full-time solitary incarceration he'd been in for years (he'd gotten a gut, was highly medicated daily, and....a lower protein diet no doubt  sorry, gallows humor...). In his killing days before all the meds and therapy (and his born-again Christianity) had so "taken the edge off" him, I imagine he might have fought back much more if given a chance, or perhaps even been the one to strike first. But as it happened the other inmate jumped him and another guy with a barbell and beat them to death basically. Some people were relieved; the inmates were repulsed by Dahmer, and we hate what we fear of course. Others suspected what amounts to foul play on the part of the gen pop guards. | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 6/18/2008 12:19:31 PM | If you'd like to start a Jeffery Dalmer post, please feel free. However this post is about the guy who was kidnapping, molesting and eating toddlers.
He was hanged for his crimes.
Should he have been spared? | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 6/18/2008 12:48:52 PM | | No, he should have been nuked slowley through a dysfunctional wood chipper and cooked in a crock pot for the inmates doing life for other homicides...1st degreeers. | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 6/18/2008 1:24:31 PM | Ask the victims families!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Amen to this!
Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall into an open sewer and die. Mel Brooks
I think that it is far too easy to judge whether or not someone ( who is guilty) should
be executed, when one isn't involved
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 6/18/2008 1:33:17 PM | | the death penalty is always justified. get it going and start saving your state billions of dollars. that money is urgently needed for education, the homeless, the poor, and the sick. stop coddling criminals because we have bleeding hearts among us. the bleeding hearts can form their own fund or foundation and keep these enemies and criminals alive and well, gettting 3 hots and a cot. they can even have them bed down in their own homes, if they like them so much. | |
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| The Death Penalty - When is it ever justified?
Posted: 6/18/2008 1:33:30 PM | IF AND ONLY IF there is clear physical evidence that PROVES ABSOLUTELY the criminal is guilty then be merciful and kill them immediately. I have no problem with killing murderers and serial killers. The problem I have is with the corrupt governments who "claim" to represent us deciding wh0 dies.
As to insanity. Rabid dogs are insane and I would not hesitate to eliminate one of them.
As to family members of the criminal. If I ever murder anyone then I deserve to die. Hows that for being closely related? | |
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