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Isabon
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Joined: 4/8/2008
Msg: 101 | |
| Guys, how would you recommend I answer this question?
Posted: 6/23/2008 11:05:47 PM | Trrypier,
Actually, I'm getting these requests from guys that are age 35-45. The gentlemen that are younger do not ask. (Yes, I do get quite a few of 23-25 year olds asking me out as well.) I agree it is a bit immature on a FIRST date to expect such things. First and fore most, I love what I do and I'm very good at it and I requested quite a bit and even referred to by other professionals in the business in my area when someone needs good deep tissue and myofascial work. But even if I wasn't.. look at it this way; a friend of mine told me this.. "Honey, even a cheap prostitute gets paid." In a committed relationship, I have no problem helping out.. when I'm not tired and theres time. But, other then that I'm very worth the money.
My issue is the expectation on the FIRST date and I don't even know the guy!
I am, however, learning from what everyone is saying here. I now use it as a filter to separate the men from the boys. Thank you!
Cheers. | |
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gcdeb
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Joined: 1/11/2008
Msg: 102 | |
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SomSD
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Joined: 5/12/2008
Msg: 103 | |
| Guys, how would you recommend I answer this question?
Posted: 6/24/2008 2:36:15 AM | Well, I read the first page of responses and I don't plan on reading the other 4 to make sure this hasn't been said... so if I'm repeating sentiments, oh well.
This response assumes your post explains the situations you encounter very literally. If you're saying that every guy becomes super insistent about getting a massage and then gets super dejected when you refuse, then ignore this response. But since I don't believe that to be the case... read on.
Get over yourself.
It's a massage. You're not a surgeon who's being asked to perform free surgery. You're not a lawyer being asked to handle someone's case pro bono. Your profession involves doing something that ANYONE can do to some degree or other. You do it much better than others, and you do it well enough to get paid for it.
Why WOULDN'T someone be interested in knowing how a really good massage can feel? If someone asks for a massage, it's not like they're saying "Hey, let's go find a park bench and spend the next hour working on my back!"
I don't think 95% of the people out there even know what a professional massage feels like. (Note: 85% of statistics are made up on the spot.) Maybe they just want the 30 second teaser. Maybe they're looking for a way to initiate physical contact and asking someone whose profession involves physical contact is less intimidating for them.
Or maybe they're just fascinated with the profession and don't really know anything about it. "You get paid to rub people for an hour? Whoopty doo!" Did you really get into a profession that you hate so much that spending 30 seconds of your private time to show what it means to be a massage therapist is sooooo horrible? If you feel comfortable touching the guy, what's the big deal in saying "So here's a maneuver that helps stretch so and so or relax this muscle and that muscle." If I dated a girl that made balloon animals for a living you can bet your a** I'd ask them to make me something! *Especially* if I was interested in the person... I'd want to see their skills at work!
But maybe your reaction is, "Wow! That's so forward of them to initiate intimate physical contact on a first date!" Then THAT'S a legitimate issue. THAT'S what makes the situation unpleasant. Not, "OMG! WTF! He's asking me to work on my time off!" If the person is insisting on a massage and you don't feel comfortable making contact on a first (second/third/whatever) date, then tell the person that. If they happen to argue, "But you're okay with touching your clients", tell them that you don't date your clients. Regardless, it's not an issue of working for free.
And ALL of that is even assuming the guy is SERIOUS! Asking for a massage could just as easily be a line that subconsciously tests how laid back you are. Or maybe it's just a flirty line that's expecting a quick-witted rejection that shows tact and intelligence -- in which case your "I've got an opening on Monday" works well.
Or hell, maybe the guy was just nervous, didn't really know what to say, and thought a comment about your profession was a way to show he was paying attention while also being somewhat charming or funny, "Wouldn't it be funny if I were to really expect a massage on a first date?"
Yes, you're being oversensitive. It would be hard to convince me that any appreciable number of guys who would ask this question would be doing so with the intention of receiving free services.
No, you shouldn't lie about your profession unless you're ashamed of it. If you *are* ashamed of it, find something else to do for a living and this won't even be a problem anymore.
If you read all this, I'm sure it came across as mean... and my apologies would only extend so far. I'm just stunned that someone could be *so* offended by what is, most often, such an innocuous question.
Just as stunned, I'm sure, as anyone wondering why I would write so much in response to this. Haha! | |
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| Guys, how would you recommend I answer this question?
Posted: 6/24/2008 2:39:28 AM | I didn't read more than the first page on this thread, because honestly, it's late and I don't feel like it. So I apologize if somebody already said this...
But i get the feeling that most of the guys hear "massage therapist" and think "free blowjob." | |
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SomSD
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Joined: 5/12/2008
Msg: 105 | |
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Isabon
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Joined: 4/8/2008
Msg: 106 | |
| Guys, how would you recommend I answer this question?
Posted: 6/24/2008 10:02:16 AM | You hit the nail on the head. The last guy I went on a coffee date with actually wanted a free massage in his bedroom and actually stated that within the first hour of meeting. I did joke it off. I was VERY laid back about it.. but he then asked three more times, differently each time. Does this happen often? For the last four dates it has, which prompted me to write this first thread. I'm only talking about the first date here.. not future ones. The guy was really disappointed and somehow felt that he had a right to a massage and stated that. Hey, let me get to know you first!
As for my profession, it sounds as if you really haven't had a professional massage before and generalize what a real one is. There are so many different type of massage therapists out there and (just like men) to generalize is pretty well, you get the picture. It's sad that with this profession is so generalized. I work with Doctors and Chiropractors. The type of work that I do helps relieve people of symptoms from IBS to Tentenitus. I'm not into the sensual massage scene (no fluff bunny here) and I'm looking into becoming a holistic doctor in the future. No, not everyone can do massage. You would be surprised to the drop out ratio in schools! If you study up what a massage and the different modalities can do, if not performed correctly you can seriously jack up or injure a person! You can send a diabetic into a coma, cause blood pressure to rise above normal limits and even accidentally cause an abortion on a baby in the first trimester if the person doesn't know what they are doing.
Cheers. | |
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| Guys, how would you recommend I answer this question?
Posted: 6/24/2008 12:18:48 PM | Remember the Seinfeld episode that touched on this issue? That show really did cover just about every dating situation that one might encounter.
I guess that it just depends on the guy. Some will be mature enough to fight the urge more successfully than Jerry did. Others will be like Jerry. Play it by ear, I say.
I once was a friend on the way to being more than a friend of a lady who was a massage therapist, and it never occurred to me to do anything other than to see her professionally if I wanted a massage from her. I never did though, nor did the topic come up.
I do not remember why we never got beyond being friends. Now I want to see what she is up to.
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| Guys, how would you recommend I answer this question?
Posted: 6/24/2008 2:27:20 PM | | Re; to SomSd. You really have no clue as to what you're saying. This woman works till she can't move anymore. The pain in her hands and body takes it's toll. I'd love to see you give out free work. And if one was a surgeon then it's ok not to ask for that free facelift. But doing massages is ok to do for free. I used to be a massuese and it is exhausting. The last thing I wanted to do is meet someone and work on them for even 1 minute. You're the one that needs to get over yourself. | |
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SomSD
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Joined: 5/12/2008
Msg: 111 | |
| Guys, how would you recommend I answer this question?
Posted: 6/24/2008 6:20:56 PM | You two don't get it do you... my point isn't that you should freely dish out massages. Sure I made one mention of that, but my response was 10 paragraphs long and if all you got out of it was "He thinks she should give out free massages", then you've got reading comprehension problems.
My point was that it's uncalled for to get so offended by someone asking for a free massage. Like I said, most people have no clue what a massage therapist does. If they ask for a massage, instead of letting Paul Revere loose down the countryside hollering "The massage questions are coming! The massage questions are coming!", take it as a compliment, take it as a joke, take it as an opportunity to inform them what your line of work actually entails... what point is there to getting all upset about it. You're not going to get reverse-massage-raped. It's not like they're going to FORCE you to give them a massage.
Ultimately what rubs me the wrong way is when people respond all indignantly to someone who asks a question with no ill intent. Big deal. She got asked for a massage. Again. If they want to start being a jerk about her refusal, then she's actually lucky to have learned about that side of them in the first date.
For the record, I met a massage therapist once... first meeting... I got a massage... and a blowjob. Granted these are atypical results... but the point is -- obviously not every massage therapist gets their panties in a bunch from being asked for a massage. It's not the "ultimate insult" you make it out to be. | |
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| Guys, how would you recommend I answer this question?
Posted: 6/24/2008 6:27:24 PM | I get it too. I'm a professional Handyman. Licensed and insured and all that. I don't mind doing a little bit to help, but its better to not mix work with pleasure.
But, as others have said, don't lie. About anything. | |
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Isabon
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Joined: 4/8/2008
Msg: 113 | |
| Guys, how would you recommend I answer this question?
Posted: 6/25/2008 11:15:08 AM |
For the record, I met a massage therapist once... first meeting... I got a massage... and a blowjob. Granted these are atypical results... but the point is -- obviously not every massage therapist gets their panties in a bunch from being asked for a massage. It's not the "ultimate insult" you make it out to be.
Acutally Somsd, you not getting it. It sounds as if you are the reading into what I said and blowing what happened out of porportion. But then, I exspect this from being in a forum. I never said that I freaked out, you read into that. If you read the original post and the posts after that, I have repeadly stated that I was casual about it the first couple of times the guy asked for it. It was the third time in the same FIRST date that it got really annoying. Then when this happened three times in a row with different coffee dates from here, I was STILL polite through out the entire date and I ONLY came on here to ask how to avoid the situation. How politly could I change the situation so that no one walks away offended. I was not insulted, just really annoyed with the thought and feeling as if that was all that I was worth because the date seemed to go sour after I repeadly said no - politly. Understand, I'm not the type of person to freak out and go nuts on comments or statements, because I know that all I have to do is walk away. It takes quit a bit to upset me, however I care enough about people to not offend and that is why I posted my question here to do just that.
What I'm finding interesting is how folks on here can judge a person by what they do for a living and not the person.. a couple of people on here have stated that they wouldn't even date a MT just because it's what they do.. That is just shocking to read.
Cheers. | |
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| Guys, how would you recommend I answer this question?
Posted: 6/25/2008 11:43:44 AM | Awww... you're hands are gold babe, and if you unfortunatelly bumped on a few who doesn't acknowledge your values... that is it...
I think you can even turn it to a bench mark test for your advantage... If they get offended, expect you to give free massage or take you granted too, be sure, they don't have the guts and won't last through a way that always take two individuals and each with confidence...
You don't need such an a*, do you? Make sure you get them bench-mark-tested up front...
Kill with kindness dawlin | |
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| Guys, how would you recommend I answer this question?
Posted: 6/25/2008 11:44:51 AM | How to answer the massage question ?
These guys are joking around with you as they check you out. I would recommend that you simply say "you will get your massage if we sleep together" , emphasis on the "if" .
........ B. | |
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| Guys, how would you recommend I answer this question?
Posted: 6/25/2008 11:49:49 AM | Ok so this will sound very classless and I am sorry about that, but I live in a tourism industry and the massages that are offered out here (def not all, but some) come with promise of an extra body part being massaged (for the guys anyway, im not sure about women) Its pretty well known out here, and I think that the guys saying these things to you are either trying to be "cute" bleh, or are trying to let you know that they want to know if your particular job comes with the "perks" and if so, they can then feel free to treat you like a whore by assuming you will preform that "extra" for them. Ok so maybe this isn't the case on the mainland, but out here, its all in the back of the phone book lol...I would ask the guy with a lil flirtatious smile on your face, "And what do you mean by that?" the whacks will think you know what they are talking about, and will think you are ok with it, and will then prob make some sexual statement, and you will be able to tell who the genuinely bumbling socially awkward idiots who are suggesting a free massage , massage only lol. Either way, tell them what you do fir a living. But ANY guy who suggests a free massage should be crossed off your list.....And the guys that want a "trade" who the hell do they think they are?!? You went to school for what you do, and I happen to know that that course work is a mother*$#%% so he can kiss your ass! What assumptive arrogance! I wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole anyway lol. He's probably assumptive about his skills in a few other areas if you get my drift lol. | |
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| Guys, how would you recommend I answer this question?
Posted: 6/25/2008 11:50:11 AM | My two cents is not to lie about what you do. I see nothing wrong with you saying, "it is my occupation and I need to keep it separate from my personal life. It's not good for business to give free massages." (They do take a lot of time and energy.)
However, I do have a couple of massage therapist friends, and they are often happy to do trades. If you think the guy has something businesslike or helpful to offer, you might float that idea. And, actually, it might discourage people from repeating the question. But if a contractor, mechanic, or professional can offer an hour or two of their time in return, it might be good for both. I've, for instance, traded designing biz cards, web pages, and giving biz advice for services. Everyone wins on that one.
Another point, though. It seems very appropriate to say that you just don't want to get that physical with someone you're beginning to get to know. If the guy doesn't like that, he's not for you. | |
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| Guys, how would you recommend I answer this question?
Posted: 6/25/2008 12:13:04 PM |
For the record, I met a massage therapist once... first meeting... I got a massage... and a blowjob. Granted these are atypical results... but the point is -- obviously not every massage therapist gets their panties in a bunch from being asked for a massage. It's not the "ultimate insult" you make it out to be.
What she is incensed about is the fact that guys automatically assume massage involves hand/blow job, and that it would be appropriate to assume she would dole these out to every one inquiring. Its the *wink *wink after the word "massage" comes out of their mouths that pisses her off. Its also the fact that her job has been in dignified, because of the sex industry's preoccupation with it. Her intention for giving a massage isn't to "get people off" its to heal people. And the assumption underlying all of this is that she got into massage because she is a whore preoccupied with sex, and being sexual "toy".
Also do you know how many muscles there are in the human body? Thousands. And she has to have memorized the name, function, and location of every single one. Do you know how much she has to know about the human body?
OP ignore this guy, it seems like he is one of the ones that asks that stupid question, and is trying to justify it. And if a guy like this ever ends up on your table, massage his back so his little wee wee goes crooked. | |
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SomSD
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Joined: 5/12/2008
Msg: 119 | |
| Guys, how would you recommend I answer this question?
Posted: 6/25/2008 6:22:32 PM | Actually, I never once got the impression that she was concerned with people expecting extracurricular favors... that seems to be your impression. Maybe it happens to be something else she's concerned with, but her original post didn't seem to suggest this.
I mentioned the blowjob bit just to shed light on the spectrum of people out there. To say, "Hey, while you may be on this side of the spectrum, there are others on the other side of the spectrum". If the types of women vary that drastically, why should a relatively simple question -- that doesn't even necessarily have sexual overtones -- be considered insult? It's a question that helps characterize the person answering -- isn't that the whole purpose of dating?
He asks a question -- you learn about him.
You answer the question -- he learns about you.
What's the problem here?
And, OP, you said I was blowing your response out of proportion. Perhaps. I wasn't suggesting you're going ape-sh** once a guy asks, I'm saying that you've obviously become particularly sensitive to the subject -- and yes, you sound insulted. Maybe you don't make that obvious to them, but you're making it obvious here. You did ask whether we thought you were being too sensitive, and the point of my response and the manner in which I gave it was to give you an emphatic "YES".
To Pearl, yes, I am a guy that might ask such a question... and I might not... it would depend on how the OP acts with me. If she seems flirty and whatnot, I would probably ask it to flirt back. If she seems more reserved or that she wouldn't find it funny, I'd probably hold off. At the end of the day, I wouldn't actually ask her for a full on massage unless I felt like she wanted to give me a full on massage -- which means I probably wouldn't even have to ask for it, she'd be giving it to me -- and probably not on a first date, either.
Peewee weewee jokes aside, I am definitely fascinated if you're suggesting there's a muscle in the back that can make a guy's penis go crooked. I might be a degree or two to the left and wouldn't mind getting that thing to point straight! Haha!
- Som | |
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| Guys, how would you recommend I answer this question?
Posted: 6/26/2008 12:49:28 PM |
What I'm finding interesting is how folks on here can judge a person by what they do for a living and not the person.
I agree, i sometimes have the same reaction which is why i choose to be slightly vague about what i do. I dont lie but i do 'cop out'.
I think you should obviously take what the guy says in the context of how well you know him. If he's just trying to portray some funly interest (yep 'funly' = new word) in what you do then let him off, he's probably nervous and trying to gain rapport. He might be thinking 'dammit that was cheezy' to himself afterwards, but also may be too afraid to risk digging himself deeper by creating a situation out of it and apologising. Yeh i know, seems counter intuitive.
However if it seems he's being cheezy then its probably because he's a cheezy guy and his subconscious can't resist the temptation to say whats on his mind. In that case do what your doing, be polite and curteous and use it as your way of knowing that you should disqualify him and move on.
Btw id take advice from females over mine any day! Your better communicators than us men are.
and dont you think this banana guy is cool??
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| Guys, how would you recommend I answer this question?
Posted: 6/26/2008 2:17:06 PM | No you are not being oversensitive. I would explain it this way "until I am committed with a man, there are no free massages" Simple.
And I don't think that most of these men are asking you because they are curious about massage. Pft, please they are equating it with you touching their body and it is completely sexual. Perhaps they are joking, but at any rate it is making you uncomfortable and that is all that matters. With the type of person I am, I would have zinged back "I don't think so Tim - you gotta have more of an IN than this". Really depends on your personality how you wish to proceed.
Most men get hot under the collar about this whole massage business and so many guys nowadays seems to think they are experts and that women will fall all over them because they like to give massages.
Being touched is theurapeutic no matter, but in order to give a proper theurapeutic massage, one must know what they are doing. | |
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Isabon
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Joined: 4/8/2008
Msg: 123 | |
| Guys, how would you recommend I answer this question?
Posted: 6/26/2008 10:09:22 PM | I love that guy!! He's awsome! Thanks for bringing him to the party..
redstarladdy, Thanks. I will keep that in mind. I know it's difficult on that first meeting, trying to find things to say to keep a conversation going.. Which is why its not until they say it around the third time (and it feels more like persistance) then it's an issue that I try to politly end.
It's nice to read from the majority (men and women) that I'm on the right track! I thank all of you for your input. It's also nice to reaffirm that MT's, hairdressers and other people are hitting the same issue. I never thought a painter or mechanic would go through the same thing. But then, I'm not the type to try to get something for nothing from someone so I've learned a great deal. I have learned a ton from everyone here and more about myself as well, while reading everyones posts. I'll pop in every now and then to read posts, but you all run with it to see where it goes.
I thank you all deeply for your responses. Cheers,
Isabon. | |
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| Guys, how would you recommend I answer this question?
Posted: 6/26/2008 10:49:39 PM | | Are you sure they're being serious? If I said something like that, I would be joking, and expect a smart a*s answer back. Something like "Right after I get my _____." (Tie it in with whatever they do for a living; or a hobby of theirs) | |
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| Guys, how would you recommend I answer this question?
Posted: 6/27/2008 4:07:31 AM | ^^^^true that's what I think, but I would venture she's darn tired of hearing it....my reaction would be "oh how original, I've never heard that before". lol
I never thought a painter or mechanic would go through the same thing
True enough, and I would never think to ask someone I had only been on a few dates with to do painting or mechanics! Kinda rude. | |
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