|
|
|
|
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/21/2008 9:34:28 AM |
Has anyone read about this sherrif and why he doesn't have repeat offenders. I think the VPD should copy what this county sherriff has done with the chain gang prisioners. I think any chronic offfender would be scared to repeat any crime and return back here.
Yes I have seen this on a news special. It seems to work. Its not easy and that's the whole point of being punished.
I believe if the acccountability is taught,,,,AND enforced during the younger years,,,,people will actually understand that there are certain things they shouldn't be doing when they are "adults". Of course the bleeding hearts will disagree with me,,,but I submit to you, that we are breeding the criminals all by ourselves. No one to blame except the people we see in the mirror.
In this day and age how hard is it to actually enforce rules. Yes we can teach by example but with parents ether unable or unwilling to apply some form of minor discipline, and a school system that does not properly grade students work.
We have created a society that is saying you didn't do good enough but that's alright.
Or you broke the rules but we forgive you. Don't worry there wont be any consequences.
So...just because people with power and influence and $$$ can get away with criminal behavior, this means that all the kids who mess up because they have such difficult beginnings in life should be shot when they shoplift a couple of times??? Did I get that right Justin and Tempter???
They are just expressing there frustration with the system and how it seems to be failing to protect the victims. As am I.
You have made some good points on how to prevent this problem from happening in the future.
But you still haven't offered any suggestions on how to deal with the problem we have now.
What should be done with chronic offenders who have proven time and again that they have no respect for the the justice system or the people they are victimizing? | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/21/2008 9:34:55 AM | Smitten said it to the "T"
That idea is exactly what i think should be brought back..ive heard of guys trying to get arrested since its a better life then street life. Make them pay.
Some of you are saying that these guys deserve respect...well I guess these are the same people that havent had thier cars stolen/broken into, houses , or held up....Come on people 100 strikes???? How many times do you need to be slapped on the wrist before you know youve done something wrong.... | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/21/2008 10:05:18 AM | Celtic........
We're not talking about the same thing here.....
You're talking about troubled teens, very young adults....
I agree with you, huge intervention with programs as you suggested is a great idea.
I can only speak for myself here, I'm talking about the gang members, the drug runners or young adults that have committed very serious crimes, the CHRONIC CAREER criminals, not kids who've made some mistakes.
The ones that have full knowlage of what they do and why they do it...money.
They get caught over and over with little or no consequence, it's pissing off the public.
That little puke that smashed that kid over the head with an axe was a prime example of how flawed our system is.......
The victom, a young teen is now a crippled for life, a quad - if this puke perp had'nt been caught on film laughing about it as he left the court room pretty much a free person after being found guilty of this crime, he would'nt be looking at at a judge again for a tad bit harsher sentence.
This is the kind of crap most people have had enough of. | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/21/2008 11:58:35 PM | | I'm not even going to pretend to have the answers and my heart goes out to the victims of any crimes that are committed regardless of whether it's a violent offense, by a first time offender or someone who is stealing for the hundredth time. My "bleeding heart" tells me that more resources into prevention but there have to also be some deterrents to committing crimes, like having to do community service or some other restitution or free labor, and the public has to be protected from people who commit violent crimes, sometimes for the rest of that person's natural life. | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/22/2008 8:18:29 AM |
My "bleeding heart" tells me that more resources into prevention but there have to also be some deterrents to committing crimes, like having to do community service or some other restitution or free labor, and the public has to be protected from people who commit violent crimes, sometimes for the rest of that person's natural life.
No one has argued with you about the fact that prevention is the key to keeping people from heading down this road.
The simple fact is that many have already made the choice to continue to pray on innocent, law abiding citizens. We continue to pay for this behavior in the form of insurance payments and deductibles, court costs, policing, and our personal well being and safety.
Do you really believe that someone that is displaying this kind of chronic behaviour will be affected by having to do community service. And as for restitution how do you expect them to come up for the money to do this? Rob Peter to pay Paul?
It can be a vicious circle cant it.
It has been proven that if someone is incarcerated in a system were they must work, contribute, and remain clean and sober they will come out feeling better about themselves and have a better chance of rehabilitation.
We have allowed this situation happen. With our inadequate laws, liberal sentences, and the ideas that these people are a product of there upbringing.
I think its about time that people are held accountable for there actions. | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/22/2008 8:47:26 AM | "It has been proven that if someone is incarcerated in a system were they must work, contribute, and remain clean and sober they will come out feeling better about themselves and have a better chance of rehabilitation.
We have allowed this situation happen. With our inadequate laws, liberal sentences, and the ideas that these people are a product of there upbringing.
I think its about time that people are held accountable for there actions."
ditto!the focus should be more onto rehabilitation programs during incarceration... they need to walk away with substance not just another record of prisontime on their sheet. Show them we really care about them and want them to do well in life so hopefully they will then want to. | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/22/2008 9:25:24 AM | ^^^^Yes, more intrusive intervention rather than harsher sanctions is the answer, in my opinion.
Rehabiliation, to me, means to get into the mind and soul of the youth...examine and evaluate each youth individually and customize his/her rehabiliation. What are the underlying issues in a young offenders life? Why does he/she behave the way they do? Many of the answers can be found by looking at the background of the individual youth (culture, environment, upbringing) and within the offender himself. It is his beliefs about himself, others, and the world around him that determines how and what he thinks and how he behaves...and consequently what he does.
I believe extensive councelling is vital. Problem is, some youth may not be receptive to that approach. And then there will always be the young offender that cannot be rehabilitated. Those that have little empathy, compassion for others, responsiblity and accountability for self (it's always someone else's fault), inability to look within and/or desire to help themself, those with serious substance abuse, those with mental health problems...
Tough questions and no easy solution......
~Missy~ | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/22/2008 11:31:20 AM | | These are tough questions and the reality is that if there was an easy solution, we would have found it by now. Anger is a very strong emotion and as human beings, the first thing that most of us want when someone commits a crime is revenge and to see the person pay or to feel the same pain that the victim felt or will feel for a long time to come because of the other person's crime. It is normal to feel this way when we are wronged and it is also normal to feel betrayed and angry when they system does not either prosecute or meet out what we see as fair punishment for crimes committed against ourselves, our loved ones, our co-workers and our friends. I think that overall it's a good thing that we have a system, however inadequate we may feel it is at times, to deal with those who commit crimes because if we left it up to the individual to get revenge when they are angry and grieving, things would get a lot uglier than they do. | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/22/2008 3:24:40 PM | Maybe we should just give out free crack cocaine and meth to all the scum who will take it, then they wouldn't steal or rob people in order to feed the habit.
Just think what the drug dealers would do with govenment competition! They'd have to get real jobs. | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/22/2008 5:14:32 PM | Though I agree with you on some parts Walts, but regardless of upbringing some people just turn 'bad'.
Accountability, yes the child should be taught, but until an adult the parent should also be accountable for the child's conduct as should be to some extent our overpaid professionally trained employees of out education facilities. | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/22/2008 5:37:20 PM | I have little empathy for chronic offenders and the courts perpetuation of this needless cycle.
Of course stiffer penalties combined with rigid enforcement may persuade some to walk a different path, but I have doubts it will lesson the overall crime rate.
It is his beliefs about himself, others, and the world around him that determines how and what he thinks and how he behaves...and consequently what he does.
and how do we determine that?
Many of the answers can be found by looking at the background of the individual youth (culture, environment, upbringing) and within the offender himself.
Of course this leads to the question of accountability, and if you think politicians will ever seek to pin it on the parents guess again, that would be political suicide. Image a country holding its citizens accountable for their children's actions, why, It Would Be Anarchy!
The problem of crime has and always will be present, and as said there will never be easy answers. I agree however that there should be a "strikes" rule. If a felony merits life, (in the states), then Provincial should hold firm at 6.
.. | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/22/2008 10:27:46 PM |
Of course stiffer penalties combined with rigid enforcement may persuade some to walk a different path, but I have doubts it will lesson the overall crime rate.
Its possible that some may start to think that this isn't worth it. If they end up facing harsher federal time and camps were they have to work and clean up.
Anger is a very strong emotion and as human beings, the first thing that most of us want when someone commits a crime is revenge and to see the person pay or to feel the same pain that the victim felt or will feel for a long time to come because of the other person's crime.
Yes anger is a very strong emotion! I have felt it when a friend was swarmed and killed a few years ago. I also felt it when I herd about Mike Levy being hit with a hatchet, and seeing that seeing that little punk walk into the elevator and hearing him laugh. I have seen old friends turn to crime when they saw how easy it is. I also grew up when some Psycho named Olsen was going around killing my friends. So I do know a little about anger and wanting revenge.
If judges started handing out proper sentences were the criminal is actually held accountable for his crime. And the victims can actually feel that justice has been done then the court system may get some respect from both law abiding citizens and criminals.
Until someone comes up with a better idea I don't see any alternative then to continue to release them to commit more crimes or to start handing out stiffer sentences with the more crimes they commit. | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/23/2008 6:13:07 AM | Truthisee, I am not sure I understand what you are asking. To me, my statement speaks for itself. What a person thinks, he becomes. Beliefs determine thoughts, thoughts determine behaviour....
As for accountability, there is little or none or these crimes most likely would not occur. The reason I say many of the answers can be found by looking into the background of the individial is for councelling purposes only. When you look at how a person is shaped (what his cultural beliefs are, what type of environment he came from, what kind of unbringing he had) then we are better prepared to council that youth in the way that he needs -and hopefully so that he can 'see' himself and how his actions and behavior impact others. As I said, there are some that cannot be rehabilitated, but as long as there are those that can then that is where we need channel our time, energy and manpower (where it is most likely to succeed.)
~Missy~ | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/23/2008 8:02:55 AM | This subject seems to have a taken an odd turn, it was about ''chronic offenders'', not kids that have made a few mistakes.......I'm sure we'll all agree that most kids can be shown the right path with intervention.....
Here's some food for thought.....
In some countrys, if you steal, you lose the hand that stole.
You rape, you're castrated.
You run drugs, you're executed.
You murder, you're executed.
Some of these consequences too me are quite appropreite, some not, I'm neither condoning nor condeming.
My point being, the murder rate,theft rate,rape rate,drug rate etc are almost zilch........compare that that to "our" stats??
There's only one reason their stats are low.....consequences, here in Canada, that does'nt exist.
I feel very sorry for law enforcement that spend mths, sometimes yrs to build a case on a criminal only to have a bleeding heart judge hand out a disgustingly short sentence/consequence. | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/23/2008 8:51:20 AM | T50....
CHRONIC can be rehabilitated with the right intervention and the want and desire on the part of the offender. That's all I'm saying.
"In order to maintain the highest quality forums you are restricted to having no more then 2 of the last 10 posts on a thread.
Since 2 of the last 10 posts are yours you can not post to this thread." 
~Missy~ | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/23/2008 10:14:48 AM |
My point being, the murder rate,theft rate,rape rate,drug rate etc are almost zilch........compare that that to "our" stats??
T50, that maybe the idea, but from what I have seen the facts are that in such jurisdictions crimes still happen though at a lesser rate. They just have less costs feeding criminals and some of the punishments do eliminate repeated offenses.
^^^Missy,
part of what ails our system is that we try so hard to analyze the behavior of a criminal and make excuses and explanations as to the why they do. The stats are that the explanations are wonderful, but lead to nearly zero results.
My point is we should consider that offenders for most part know what they are doing and they do know the consequences and those with "learning disabilities" are hardly changed by counseling.
It is just like telling a child not to touch the hot stove burner, first they try a little when no one is looking, then touch it....... The lesson is either learned or not!
I don't think it is societies responsibility to make unjustifiably great efforts to try to change those who do not wish (or cannot be) to be changed just for the sake of feeling less guilty.
The experience of a harsh punishment will have the effect to raise the individuals awareness to reason his/her past conduct. In the end they will choose which way they will live regardless of what society does. So the real point is to save society any unjustifiable expenses created by those who do not wish to be part of it. I think that would be a sensible approach. | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/23/2008 12:34:03 PM | I agree with stiffer penalties and a system that actually punishes the perpetrator not the victims. Our system is so skewed it would require very dramatic changes to spin it around.
I know beyond a shadow of doubt that there are people who will not be discouraged by stiffer penalties, and fortunately we have prisons to house them. Nothing to say that those felons cannot be doing some serious grunt labor to pay for their gruel.
I would wager a guess that it would be very close to a majority that would actually rethink their choices if they knew they would be suffering if they were caught. I have known felons in my younger years and those that I knew had no problem getting caught and going to jail because they were sheltered comfortably, fed 3 squares, could work out etc. There was no real hardship.
It would be very Utopian if we could afford to attempt to rehab every offender out there, but take a look around, we don't even shelter the mentally ill who need our assistance. Our society has decided that it isn't worth the expenditure to do so. As for taking a look at a persons upbringing and environment, well, that can only take you so far. I grew up in a family of 4 kids, we all had the same parents, same history, same dramas etc. One of us became a felon, 3 of us didn't. The fact is, a person always has choices about what they do, no matter where they come from. Accountability starts and finishes with the person committing the crime, it is not the sin of the parents. Sure their childhood may have sucked and they might have been dealt a tough hand, so have lots of people. That does not give you a free pass or excuse for making stupid choices.
Although we aren't in Texas I can't help but agree with a lot with the sherriff's philosophy. You choose to break the laws of this society, you choose to live outside those boundaries, you take your chances. We can certainly make it known what the outcome will be.
We have thousands of men and women from our very own country getting shot at in desert heat as we write these lines. They are suffering with rations and water to fight for a cause they may or may not believe in. We are willing to allow that but get all teary eyed because some punk who may decide to invade your elderly relatives home may not get to watch cable television or work out regularly.
It is time to shake our heads and really ask what we have been reduced to as a society. | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/23/2008 5:59:57 PM | Recently a man walked into the V.P.D. station on main st.
He has more the 2 dozen convictions and agrees that the sentences are to short to change any chronic offenders attitude towards what they do. A video has been released to the press.
Here is a link to the story.
http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article.jsp?content=20080623_150517_6404
When the offenders themselves come forward to say that the system is flawed and not working then it does make one think. | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/23/2008 9:57:43 PM | ML1....
I was talking about rehabilitation and the benefits of councelling. I don't believe professionals in the field make excuses for the offender's behaviour but I will say we need explanations because assessing the who, what, where, when, and why helps us better understand the offender and IF there is a possibility that intrusive intervention will be beneficial and at what stage in the offender's crime life it will be - if at all. I previously stated there are those that are beyond help - we all understand that don't we? I don't feel the need to elaborate....
~Missy~ | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/24/2008 7:32:31 AM | Worked at a young offenders centre, felt very sorry for the kids, because the system ain't supposed to work. The attitude was that we are only warehousing them 'till they were 18 so we could ship them off to the adult system. The kids learned quickly what the system wanted to hear to make it appear they were being rehabilitated! The reason the system isn't supposed to work is that look at the dollar value, the people it would put out of work. Goodness, we may be able to pay our doctor and nurses more. Stiffer penalties isn't the answer in my opinion, tougher prisons are, making it so they (repeat offenders) don't want to go back. Yup, perhaps even considering capital punishment!
George Carlin (bless his sole, shoulda been president) had a lot of great views on how to operate the penal system. | |
|
| Chronic Offenders.
Posted: 6/24/2008 2:04:25 PM | I disagree,the US has more than enough prisons and the death penalty not to mention a three strike law and still they are losing
the war on drugs.
An addict doesn't care about such consequences only in getting their next fix,so unless rehabilitated they will continue this behavior
resulting in a long criminal record. | |
|
|
|
Home
login 
