| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/21/2008 9:56:47 PM | "Is the middle east conflict more about protecting Israeli sovereignty than democracy and oil?"
Oil.
Another thread about oil. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/21/2008 11:11:24 PM |
"Is the middle east conflict more about protecting Israeli sovereignty than democracy and oil?"
Oil.
Another thread about oil.
Oil does have a lot to do with it. But you should check out "Project for the New American Century" very, very interesting subject. Especially pay attention to how members and/or singnatories are or were part of the Bush administration. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/21/2008 11:43:59 PM | i believe we have been made the hunting dogs of israil . i believe iran hates israil
and so does oil land . i believe such a conflic could turn nasty very fast . and i believe its all been told to us already and we decided israil is specail because of it . | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/22/2008 12:02:10 AM | American was not sucked into the Israeli - Iran Conflict.
It was manipulated into it by
The Amerian Israli Political Action Committee (AIPAC),
The Project for a New American Century (PNAC), and
The American Enterprize Institute (AEI).
Members of the AEI have or currently hold several high level government positions in the Bush Administration including:
Paul Wolfowitz - Richard Perle - Douglas Feith - Lewis "Scooter" Libby - John Bolton -
Elliott Abrams - Robert Kagan - Michael Ledeen - William Kristol - Frank Gaffney Jr.
The AEI was started by Irving Kristol widely referred to as the "godfather" of neoconservatism, Mr. Kristol was part of the "New York Intellectuals," a group of critics mainly of Eastern European Jewish descent. Many of the authors / members of the PNAC are or were members of the AEI. Many members of the AEI have personal and/or political ties to Israel.
Very good article on the role of the AEI in American foreign policy.
http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/
This article traces the roots of America's war in Iraq.
Includes the influence of the AEI.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0409/p03s01-uspo.html | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/24/2008 8:37:40 PM |
The sheer repetition of lies about Bush is wearing people down.
Funny that I think it has been the exact inverse of what you said; that it is the lies of Bush and this Administration that have worn the people, and more importantly the country, down; but specifically what 'lies about Bush' are you refering to, pray tell?
There is not a liberal in this country worthy of kissing Bush's rear end, but the weakest members of the herd run from Bush.
Well, that is a disgusting little thought painting you envoked; however since you mentioned it, the only thought I have regarding the Presidents posterior regions is the fervent desire to deliver a mercilessly swift and ruthless kick to it. (I'd pay good money to see anybody else do it, too)
I harbor no hope of actually fulfilling such a desire what with secret service protections provided to him for life, but twere it not so, I suspect I would need wait for you to remove your willing lips from his nether regions before delivering such an imagined 'blow for freedom'.
Compared to the lickspittles denying and attacking him, Bush is a moral giant,
Right. And there's still a few morally misguided and diehard Germans around who (despite the evidence) think Hitler was great.
caw | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/24/2008 8:58:56 PM | DO you all read the newspapers?
Israel needs no help from the USA. Last August Israel leveled Nuke facilities in Syria.
Did the USA help?
In 1981 Israel level Nuke facilities in Iraq. Did the USA help?
Au contaire - In 1981 the USA supported a UN resolution condemning Israel.
Last year Israel gave the USA and the UN intelligence photos and reports outlining Syria's Nuke plans and facility before and after the bombing. Israel was able to neutralize the multi billion dollar defense system that Syria had recently purchased from Russia.
BTW - Iran purchased the same System from Russia.
I do not understand where some folks get their EYE DEARS from??? | |
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NERO1
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Joined: 3/8/2008
Msg: 32 | |
| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/24/2008 9:04:48 PM | | I think what will happen with Iran, if anything, in reality will be something similar to the Syrian "incident", as well as the 1981 Israeli fly-by on Iraq that destroyed the Osirak reactor. I don't believe the US will get directly "sucked into" any sort of ground war or invasion / occupation, etc (they simply cannot afford to right now, and will not be able to handle it as far as manpower, etc, barring a draft , and the American people generally -- barring a minority -- have no appetite for anymore wars and occupations). I don't believe Israel will get involved in any sort of prolonged ground battle / ground invasion of Iran either (they'd probably have to be crazy to do so, in the long run). They'll do what they feel is necessary to preserve their status quo in the region, more or less, and America won't have to get dragged into it (much) at all , IMO. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/25/2008 2:09:12 AM |
DO you all read the newspapers?
Israel needs no help from the USA. Last August Israel leveled Nuke facilities in Syria.
Did the USA help?
In 1981 Israel level Nuke facilities in Iraq. Did the USA help?
Au contaire - In 1981 the USA supported a UN resolution condemning Israel.
Last year Israel gave the USA and the UN intelligence photos and reports outlining Syria's Nuke plans and facility before and after the bombing. Israel was able to neutralize the multi billion dollar defense system that Syria had recently purchased from Russia.
BTW - Iran purchased the same System from Russia.
I do not understand where some folks get their EYE DEARS from???
explain how Israel would attack iran's nuclear program without America's help? Fly over Iraq airspace controlled by USA? Fire missile over Iraq without America's support and knowledge? How much of their technology is indigenous?
They will need complete American backing for any attack in terms of technology, intelligence and Military!
And FYI Iran has the S400 and internally developed air defence systems. Syria was mainly armed with the S200 which is ancient. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/25/2008 8:26:49 PM | | This post is really an exercise in ignorance.Nobody knows what each party has and it would be ridiculous to attack Iran unless. Unless Israel feels that its security is threatened, it will not attack Iran. There is nothing to gain and a hell of alot to lose | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/25/2008 8:40:55 PM |
explain how Israel would attack iran's nuclear program without America's help? Fly over Iraq airspace controlled by USA? Fire missile over Iraq without America's support and knowledge? How much of their technology is indigenous?
Did America help Israel attack Syria last August? NOPE
Did the USA provide intel to Israel last August? Nope
Sooooo - why would Israel suddenly need our help?
Why do you ask questions like this?
Total non sense........
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/25/2008 8:48:58 PM | Number Of Iraqis Slaughtered In US War And Occupation Of Iraq "1,225,898"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of U.S. Military Personnel Sacrificed (Officially acknowledged) In U.S. War And Occupation Of Iraq 4,109
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cost of U.S. War and Occupation of Iraq
$531,382,395,998
When will this madness stop ? this occupation has gotten so far out of hand that something needs to be done about it. and they are talking aboiut invading Iran nowand then what ? the rest of the world ? people ? we need to stop this killing and we need to stop it now !
you can see the numbers below.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/ | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/25/2008 9:04:05 PM | | I'm glad you raised the question of Israeli politics, because I think everyone, world wide, is already affected by Israel. Israel has defied UN sanctions over 69 times, and is a rogue nuclear- armed state. The Western democracies have been dragged into a war with Muslims because of this business. The U.S. has to disengage and stop supporting Israel. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/25/2008 9:15:22 PM | Reuters
Israeli Transport Minister Shaul Mofaz told an Israeli newspaper an attack on Iran looked "unavoidable" given the apparent failure of United Nations sanctions to deny Tehran technology with bomb-making potential.
Many analysts say Iran's nuclear sites are too numerous, distant and fortified for Israel to take on alone. Iran's Shahab-3 missile, with a range of 2,000 km (1,250 miles), is capable of hitting Israel and U.S. bases in the Gulf, Iranian officials say.
World
WASHINGTON, June 25 -- U.S. military's Joint Chiefs of Staff, Michael Mullen, was expected to visit Israel to discuss topics including Iran nuclear issue, the defense department said on Wednesday.
CBS News
CBS reported that Israel does not want to wait until the next U.S. administration to strike Iranian nuclear sites, due to uncertainty of new government's policies on Iran.
If the latter is true....expect hail mary's in the immediate future. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/25/2008 11:11:53 PM |
Is it the US's responsibility to support Israeli objectives?
Unfortunately, anyone in U.S. national politics that does not support Israel will not last very long even if they are promoting policies that are in American interests. That is a fact in national politics for several decades now.
Is the middle east conflict more about protecting Israeli sovereignty than democracy and oil?
Of course, it is. There us no other logical reason for doing what we are doing in the Middle East other than defending Israel. Democracy, oil, and all the rest were never reasons for our military being in the Middle East … ever!
Will siding with Israeli incur the wrath is Russia, China?
Since the USA will support Israel no matter what, who cares? According to a fellow on another thread, he said about a week ago that Israel will take out that Iranian nuclear plant before the US presidential elections. You can bet the farm on that one. Now it is absolutely clear that is what is going to happen. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/26/2008 5:39:11 AM | The Israelis are our friends? Ask the US Navy soldiers killed by an Israeli jet in '67...
The US isn't getting sucked in--we initiated it. We want the Israelis to do it, b/c we can't. Its just that right now, there's a right-wing gov't in there dumb enough to set the MidEast on fire.... | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/26/2008 8:19:32 AM |
It's time to bomb Iran once and for all. Russia will make money again by rebuilding Iran's reactors. Then those reactors will get destroyed again. We can live with high gas prices, we're already doing it. No fear about temporary higher prices. Bush better hurry up before Israel gets the all glory. Perhaps a joint venture since Iran brags about being this great superpower with all of that Russian military crap.
I really hope that "this" is a joke post. If it isn't, then I hope you are willing to be on the frontline in this next BU LLSHIT war for the imperialist nation and their dream of domination over all. Maybe that will provide you another perspective about the realities of modern warfare. And calling Iran a braggart about it's military is throwing rocks from your glass house.
JMHO
Peace | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 6/28/2008 1:38:18 PM |
Is it the US's responsibility to support Israeli objectives?
The US governments responsibility? Yes, it is. They've been dealing with the Zionists to the point that Zionist influence in our political system and media is rampantly out of control. The US government is bascially a proxy of the "Jewish State".
The US peoples' responsibility? Absolutely not. One day people will wake up to the deception that's really going on in our government and it's conservative/liberal media puppets and be highly pissed. I can't wait for that day.
Is the middle east conflict more about protecting Israeli sovereignty than democracy and oil?
I think it's got a little to do with all of those except democracy. The spread of democracy is what's used as an emotional appeal to sell these wars to the American people. It's interesting to consider before the Iraq war, Saddam was the #1 threat to the state of "Israel". Now that he's out of the picture, the #1 threat to "Israel" is Iran. Is it a coincidence there is a media propaganda war underway against the Iran?
Will siding with Israeli incur the wrath is Russia, China?
We'll all know the answer to that question soon enough.
What do you think?
I think at some point the grand deception is going to come unraveled at the seams. It can be maintained forever. With every new potential crisis I see an opportunity for people to wake up to what's really going on in our world. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 7/9/2008 7:49:44 PM | | Israeli policies aside, they have one of the most powerful militaries in the world if I'm not mistaken. I am pretty sure that during the cold war they had the most powerful navy in the world (or second most after the US). They are nuclear armed. They are trained at fighting in Urban areas. They are used to dealing with cell based groups. They are used to fighting in the middle east. If anything, we should've asked them to lead the crazy war in Iraq. They probably would've been alot "better" at fighting it than us and would've surely won by now. Well, as long as you define won to mean the utter annihilation of the civilian and military populous. No bad guys left if nobody is left! | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 7/18/2008 6:20:50 PM | Did anyone read that the other a meteor stuck the atmosphere over Isreal and it's citizens though it was a nuclear attack ? that's how easy it would be to make people start a war these days.
http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=178&nid=16560 | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 7/19/2008 5:06:17 AM |
Is the middle east conflict more about protecting Israeli sovereignty than democracy and oil? The U.S. has NOT protected Israel's sovereignty. Israeli sovereignty is threatened by its aggressive neighbours, and by terrorism within Israel. The main source of terrorism for Israel appears to be from the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, of which neither are patrolled by U.S. forces. The main source of attacks from Israel's aggressive neighbours has been several rocket attacks from Lebanon. In order to protect itself from such attacks, Israel has been forced to invade Lebanon twice in my lifetime. AFAIK, the U.S. never invaded Lebanon, and never even supported the Israeli forces.
However, it has protected the oil of Kuwait by invading Iraq, and later on protected democracy by re-invading Iraq and removing Sadaam Hussein. Israel wasn't attacked at all during the Second Gulf War. So Israel had no clear objective to removing Sadaam Hussein from office. Russia and China were against the invasion. The US went in anyway. Even during the First Gulf War, Israel was only attacked AFTER Iraq was invaded, and had no particular interest in the invasion of Iraq. In both cases, the reasons were not to support Israel. The First Gulf War was in response to the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. The Second Gulf War was in response to the reports that Iraq had WMDs, and were hiding them from the U.N. Weapons Inspectors.
Is it the US's responsibility to support Israeli objectives? No, and that was never a real concern for the Presidency. If it was, then the US would have invaded Lebanon in 2007.
Will siding with Israeli incur the wrath is Russia, China? No, it won't. Russia and China have opposed the proposals of US leaders that had nothing to do with Israel, such as the Invasion of Iraq in 2003. AFAIK, they have not opposed Israel's sovereignty. The establishment of the state of Israel, ratified by the UN in Security Resolution 181, was supported by the U.S.S.R. and China abstained. Neither opposed the establishment of the State of Israel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_General_Assembly_Resolution_181
What might interest you to know, is that Israel is not a purely capitalist democracy, but is also founded on ideas of communism. The Kibbutzim which were so widely built in Israel and were supported by the State for so many years, were all communist societies. The Mapam party, which ran Israel for decades after its establishment, was a communist party. So Israel was founded on communist as well as capitalist ideals. So Russia and China have no reason to oppose Israel on political reasons, other than being known as friends of the USA.
It is possible that Russia and China might oppose Israel due to antisemitism. But that would be the type of racial discrimination which I believe all Americans believe must be fought at every corner. I cannot conceive of an America where Americans don't want to upset fascists.
So I can see no valid reason for Russia and China to oppose Israel anyway. In reality, they have opposed the USA in history as both countries were staunchly communist, and opposed to capitalism. America stated it was capitalist, opposed to communism and would fight it at all costs. So in effect, America was opposed to Russia and China, and Russia and China were opposed to the US. Israel was never anything to do with it. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 7/19/2008 2:17:56 PM | this should be the new poster for anyone who opposes the war.
It's called "Don't Iraq Iran!!" http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/downloads/dontiraqiran.jpg
And be sure to read Bush's Hr 362 proposal against Iran. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 7/19/2008 9:35:59 PM | I'm glad you raised the question of Israeli politics
I am not glad.
I am sick of this topic.
Please take your antisemitism disguised as political debate and go fire off a few Sieg Hiels! | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 7/20/2008 9:59:39 AM | Disliking Israel and disagreeing with their policies doesn't make someone antisemetic. The entirety of the political world may disagree with that statement, but it's true. I think that the Jews should be treated as human beings, just like everyone else. I think that the Holocaust is one of the worst things to happen in history. I think it's terrible that the Jews were so hated in both Europe and America that if word got out about the Holocaust it might have raised support for the Nazis. It shows some of the darkest sides of human nature.
But at the same time, Israel was placed where it was because of antisemetism. It wasn't just put there because it's their promised land according to scripture. It was also put there because it was away from Europe. After WWII, the "good guys" basically just said "we don't want anymore wars in Europe about people hating you, pick somewhere that we don't own and live there." Since then we've all felt bad about the Holocaust and because of it looked the other way no matter what Israel does. Kidnapping, torture, murder, putting hospitals and residential buildings as priority targets in bombing raids, we just don't care. Now, they are so thoroughly pissing off people in the middle east with their dangerous lose cannon politicans that war about Israel is a very real possibility. Israeli grandstanding and threats are in major danger of provoking a war. Barring that, Israel is willing to use military force to respond to what should receive, by all reasonable accounts, a police action. One small group of terrorists capturing someone should be responded to the same way as a group of normal people kidnapping someone. If a group of 5 canadians got tired of the hockey jokes and kidnapped an American football player, would our response be firebombing all of Canada? No, of course not. We'd negotiate or deploy a small tactical unit to return him. Instead, Israel uses it as an excuse to firebomb every city, capture every person, and claim a moral high ground.
Personally, I think the one state approach isn't a bad idea. And if that's not good enough for the Israelis, I say we give them their own country either in Europe or by giving up American land. From a purely logical standpoint, wouldn't it make more sense to put them somewhere that not everyone surrounding them actively hates them and they actively hate everyone around them? Wouldn't it make sense that if we feel bad about how we treated them, or let them be treated, then why not give them some of our own land to make up for it? That way Jews would have two nations, one they have to share in a democratically elected government, and one all to themselves.
There's honestly got to be a point where we have to say, look Jews, we love you to death but if you want us to protect you, you have to move away from everyone who hates you, you don't like the neighborhood anyway. We know your grandparents lived there, and that's important to you, but your parents didn't live there and it's not safe to live there now. You can visit, but we actually care about you and don't want you hurt. Sometimes you have to say hard things because you care.
Sorry, I've digressed into potential solutions and using logic again. Back to my original point. Just because I hate Israel, doesn't mean I hate Jews. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 7/21/2008 2:30:19 PM |
Disliking Israel and disagreeing with their policies doesn't make someone antisemetic. The entirety of the political world may disagree with that statement, but it's true.
I agree entirely, unfortunately making any critical statement toward Israeli policies or direction is immediately flagged as an anti-semitic attack, by so many sources. Zionists, invariably refer to themselves as Jews, which is not entirely inaccurate. As in this gem
"every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." Ariel Sharon , October 3, 2001
However, the stated goals of the Isrealis and Zionism are in NO WAY related to the religion of Judaism or the Jewish people as a whole. And people need to stop blurring those lines.
I have to also agree with the people who comment on the fact that many of the current advisors to the White House have a "Pro-Zionist" leaning. People, like Richard Perle or William Kristol, scare me when they outlines their wishes to basically remove all muslim-dominated countries starting with Iraq, and moving on to "assimilate"? (for want of a better word) Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, etc, etc. These are not the goals of Nation who wishes to "Protect" the poor or oppressed societies of the earth, they are the actions of an Imperial agenda to make all countries toe the line that is understood and accepted by the West.
Peace | |
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