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Show ALL Forums  > Current Events  > US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict      Mod Threads Home login  
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 Author Thread: US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
 CountIbli

Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 51
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US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 7/21/2008 2:34:58 PM

Ummm… shoot… what was the up side of this again?


The total collapse of the corrupt US political machine.

There's no fixing it from within. The American people don't have the guts to violently overthrow the government. That just leaves the collapse of the government as our only hope.
 mjk21258

Joined: 10/20/2007
Msg: 52
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US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 7/21/2008 2:40:09 PM
lumberman03 on 6/20/2008 802 AM
Subject: US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Message: better to piss off the Russkis and the Red Chinese than to have Iran deliver us a nuke by one of their proxies such as Hezbollah.
The Israelis are the only friendly nation in the Middle East, and I include the supposed "friends" of ours, the Saudis.

And one must ask why are the Isrealis our only "true friend" in the Middle East?
 kelef

Joined: 4/30/2007
Msg: 53
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US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 7/21/2008 2:45:31 PM
I think we have to stop Iran as as possible to protect Israel and the whole world.
The middle east conflict is not just proctecting Israel, its also has to do with the oil and to have a democracy country in the middle east which is only Israel , we need Israel to exsist
for the whole world.
 o76923

Joined: 11/3/2007
Msg: 54
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US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 7/21/2008 4:15:03 PM
*looks to the left, then to the right, then tilts head quizically*
I'm confused, what has Iran done so far that indicates they are bad people?

Before you answer, let me debunk the first few responses I'm guessing are appropriate:
- Ahmadinejad isn't in charge of Iran. He doesn't control their military. He can't really do that much of anything but say stuff. Ali Khamenei has complete control over Iran.
- Khamenei may have a strong opposition and fear of the US trying to conquer the world, and has said he will stop any attempt at the US Dictatorship trying to overtake his nation, he said that that is just for the present. He stated that he is open to diplomacy in the future, when the US isn't threatening them
- Ahmadinejad never said he wanted to wipe Israel off the map. Any assertion he did is a blatant lie because his original quote was in persian. The persian language lacks that idiom, so the original mistranslation in the media (which did come from the Iranian news agency) was corrected. the news agency said they were not familiar with that idiom when translating it, but it means something closer to the Zionists should be wiped from the pages of time.
- Islam is a religion of peace. War and terrorism are corruptions of that peace. Khamenei was one of the first foreign leaders to condemn the attacks and to call for the eradication of terrorism worldwide. He said that the monumental loss of life is horrible and cannot be justified. He wants all terrorism to stop in the US, Palestine, Israel, and the Balkans.
- Iran is in fact a religious state. The leader of the nation is a scholar in the religion and has in fact always been a revolutionary to support stronger interpretation of Islamic law. Where you consider that a good or bad thing is irrelevant, America can't declare war on a religion and still be America.
- On a somewhat related note, Khamenei has declared a fatwa on producing, using, or stockpiling nuclear weapons anywhere on earth. What that means is that based on his study of the Qumran (the Islamic holy book) it is morally wrong to make, own, or threaten to use nuclear weapons. Khamenei is, in effect, the head of the military and religion in Iran. So when he says no for both military and religious reasons, it isn't going to happen.
- Speaking of nukes, Iran hasn't demonstrated a desire to build nuclear weapons, nor the capacity to do so. Building a nuclear weapon, even if given complete access to nuclear technology, take approximately ten years. The idea that they are going to surprise us by turning a nuclear plant upside down and strapping a rocket to it is ridiculous. It mostly stems from the fact that most Americans think it's all the same. However, the power plant only needs to create enough heat to make water. A nuclear weapon requires the technology to create a chain reaction. The two are not even close technologically
- While on the topic of nukes, no, they do not have now nor have they ever had a clandestine nuclear operation. The rest of the world looks at the US and shakes their head every time we say it. The US congress admitted in 2006 that they couldn't prove it. The IAEA said they knew for a fact that nothing was going on. Iran both asked for and received US help in building the nuclear power plants they are working on. Iran is still asking UN inspectors to come to their facilities and verify that they are not doing anything but making power plants. The clandestine operations they were accused of and received sanctions for in 2002, were in no way secret. For starters, they talked about it on their national radio station. They described how the new power plants would help Iran and it has been a popular political platform for some of their politicians to take. And if you don't believe their radio, IAEA inspectors were there when it happened. Some of the documents the US cited as proof of the clandestine operations were from an IAEA report that Iran doesn't have nuclear weapons and is building a peacful nuclear power program.
- It is in fact the opinion of the majority of the world that Iran should be allowed to do what they are doing. 118/192 nations in the UN voted to support Iran's right to build nuclear reactors for peaceful purposes. Beyond that a number of nations have begun their own nuclear power program because of the US response to Iran saying that they worry it will become a struggle between the haves and havenots and that they do not trust the 5 major nuclear powers to treat them fairly.
- Among these nations, Argentina and Brazil have started and developed past the level of technology Iran has. They have stated that they did this because they were afraid the US would take away their right to do so if they didn't do it now.
- Back to a less nuclear topic, Iran performed missile tests after Israel preformed mock air strikes. ISRAEL STARTED IT. The two countries were yelling insults at each other. Then Israel flexed its muscles telling Iran to back off. Iran flexed their (much weaker) muscles back and now Israel is claiming Iran started it. It doesn't matter who started an argument once it escalates to violence, what matters is who throws the first punch.
- Which reminds me. Ahmadinejad actually has stated a number of times that he doesn't want to go to war with Israel. It isn't because he fears them or the US (although he should). He says that the Zionists in Israel will destroy themselves so there is no reason for him to do so. He firmly believes that within 50 years or so, Israel will not be controlled by Zionists.
- By the way, the Iranian solution for fighting in Israel isn't a dictator. It isn't even a puppet government. Khamenei supports a democracy in Israel where the Christians, Muslims, and native Jews all have equal rights and the Immigrant Jews go to some other country. Namely, he wants the people who were living there before WWII to elect democratic rulership there because the current rulers aren't from the middle east. Ahmadinejad has an even more progressive solution than that. He suggests the one-state solution. He believes that all of Israel and Palestine should be one nation with a government made up of Palestinians and Israelis. He doesn't even care about the religious side of the battle or even if the Palestinians have as much power as the Israelis. He just thinks that a government should be installed to represent all people in the nation and that there should be both Palestinian and Israeli leaders in government to make sure that one group doesn't hurt the other.

Look, I know that it's hard to believe that the US government is the bad guy. But please, at least consider for a minute that maybe someone else isn't a bad guy just because the US is trying to declare war on them.
 OneBlend

Joined: 3/31/2007
Msg: 55
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US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 7/21/2008 7:38:02 PM

"Is the middle east conflict more about protecting Israeli sovereignty than democracy and oil?"
Oil.
Another thread about oil.


Ummm .. I think you forgot to include "water" .. which is what concerns the middleast more than oil. Too many articles on the topic..
http://www.leinsdorf.com/water.htm

Turkey thinks of water the same way the Arabs think of oil. If it falls on their land, it is theirs to do with what they want, regardless of the consequences to the people living downstream. One reason that Israel wants control of the West Bank is for the water. Israel is "downstream" to the West Bank aquifers. For the past 36 years, Israel has been overpumping water from the West Bank, degrading the aquifers and destroying that source of water for the Palestinians. In effect, Israel is trying to make the West Bank uninhabitable, a subtle form of ethnic cleansing. Maybe that's one reason for the Palestinian suicide bombers. When someone is trying to destroy you and you're going to die anyway, it makes perfect sense to launch a pre-emptive suicide attack and at least take some of them with you. Remember, water is life in the Middle East.
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