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Kaos86
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Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 151 | |
| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 7/9/2009 2:12:43 PM | Mahmoud Ahmadinejad quotes...
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, has called the Jewish state as a "tumour" that should be "wiped off the map" or moved out of the Middle East, perhaps to Alaska.
"As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map," he added, referring to Iran's late revolutionary leader Ayatollah Khomeini.
"Anyone who signs a treaty which recognises the entity of Israel means he has signed the surrender of the Muslim world," Ahmadinejad said.
"Any leaders in the Islamic umma who recognise Israel face the wrath of their own people." | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 7/9/2009 4:07:02 PM | The quotes Kaos supplied notwithstanding, not "one" person should delude themselves into thinking Ahmadinejad's long history of hate-filled rhetoric and inflammatory speeches should be ignored.
Ahmadinejad is a flagrant Holocaust denier, Hitler apologist, and rabid Jew-hater that wants the destruction of Israel. There should be NO doubt about this.
The larger issue is with the secretive Ayatollahs that "really" rule Iran and use Ahmadinejad as their public mouthpiece and propagandist. They are, if anything, even "more" fanatical in their hatred for Israel than their stoolie Ahmadinejad (which, of course, won his recent presidency by trickery and fraud). | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 7/9/2009 4:07:32 PM |
If you think that would be an act of war and Israel is simply over-reacting to an Iranian threat that doesn’t exist, let’s switch the scenario.
What if Israel has repeatedly threatened Iran's existence as a matter of national policy, explicitly funded, armed, and supported terrorist organizations bent on destroying Iran, and continually defied international and UN sanctions/resolutions specifically targeting their nuclear program. In such circumstances I would have NO problem with Iran sending over jets to take out Israeli nuclear installations. They would be completely justified.
I have no doubt that you do believe such a thing.
I would imagine, based on the above, that you might also feel perfectly justified in killing a neighbour who constantly told you over the years that he hated you and wanted you to die, claiming "pre-emptive" self-defense because you saw hm in a gun store wanting to buy the gun that had the best "first-shot stopping power" for self-defense.
Some of us however, being somewhat more civilized, would think it wrong and an over-reaction if even Iran (or any country for that matter) did that. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 7/9/2009 4:14:32 PM | ^^^ This from someone that doesn't even recognize Israel's right to exist.
Don't get all sentimental and law and order on me now, mungo. Your visceral hatred of Israel and glee in terrorist violence against it tells me you're the "last" person to talk about lofty ethics and moral certitude. Like I said before, if the tables were reversed and Iran felt they needed to take out a threat against its very existence, you'd be frothing at the mouth defending Iran's actions. It's not the "concept" of self-defence you're against, just the players. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 7/9/2009 4:38:47 PM |
This from someone that doesn't even recognize Israel's right to exist.
And I said this where?
Can you provide a quote?
No?
I didn't think so but, I'm still prepared to negotiate those groundrules YOUASKED FOR.
Are you ready or have you not yet figured out how to support your position if you do?
Like I said before, if the tables were reversed and Iran felt they needed to take out a threat against its very existence, you'd be frothing at the mouth defending Iran's actions.
Seems to me I JUST said the exact opposite when I posted this in msg 154:
Some of us however, being somewhat more civilized, would think it wrong and an over-reaction if even Iran (or any country for that matter) did that.
You seem to have an issue with being able to accurately portray the views and statements of others and would rather just invent their views to suit yourself.
It must be so much more simple to maintain your viewpoint when you live like Humpty Dumpty where words mean exactly what you choose them to mean.
You can simply hear or read what you want to hear or read rather than actually understanding it. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 7/9/2009 5:43:47 PM | | cite your sources to prove that Mahmoud is: a flagrant holocaust denier, Hitler apologist and rabid jew-hater that wants the dstruction of israel. You will find that all your sources lead back to MEMRI mistranslations and misquotes. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 7/9/2009 6:00:56 PM |
Can you provide a quote?.....No?
That tired game again. You won't be "pinned down" or "get cornered" and "refuse to answer" on the grounds it may incriminate you. Don't think me stupid. This isn't some abstract theory I'm asking your opinion on (like whether God exists or not) but is germane to the topic at hand and has concrete dimensions in the real world. Your refusal to answer a simple question is de facto admission you don't believe Israel has a right to exist and should be wiped from the area. You then protest with, "I didn't say that....prove it??" I did. Your strict, weaselly avoidance in answering did it for me. Again, if you "disagree", then tell me your position on Israel???
You seem to have an issue with being able to accurately portray the views and statements of others and would rather just invent their views to suit yourself.
I've read your posts over pages in here, and I can honestly say your pacifism only extends to Israeli reactions, not to those that are violent against it. To them you give a free pass. You have not once condemned terrorist organizations like the PLO, Hamas, and Hezbollah, or put down Iran's hardline stance and rhetoric regarding the ultimate destruction of Israel. Now's your chance to put those concerns on record so we can dispense with this silly back and forth about a position anyone with an ounce of intelligence knows you da*n well have. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 7/9/2009 6:32:43 PM |
Don't think me stupid.
Then don't act stupid.
YOU asked for the groundrules, I asked you to clarify them and you have consistently avoided doing so, in my opinion most likely because you can't support your position if you do.
I've already told you that my position on them will become clear when we have agreed upon a set of givens and definitions that YOU ASKED FOR.
If you would like to drop them and state that you agree that they have no bearing on or role in the discussion then I can agree to that too.
I didn't ask for them, YOU DID. If you want to come into the discussion "acting like you're smart" then perhaps you should be prepared to follow through.
You have not once condemned terrorist organizations like the PLO, Hamas, and Hezbollah, or put down Iran's hardline stance and rhetoric regarding the ultimate destruction of Israel.
I am under no obligation to express my views in the way you decide I'm supposed to express them, to assume that you have the right to demand that is the height of intellectual dishonesty. This is especially so when YOU ASK for groundrules but refuse to clarify them to come to a mutual agreement.
I've read your posts over pages in here, and I can honestly say your pacifism only extends to Israeli reactions, not to those that are violent against it.
Your opinion as to what you THINK my posts mean isn't worth spit if you can't show where I have said same.
That tired game again.
In my opinion, your asking for groundrules but refusing to clarify them is the "tired game".
If it weren't just a "game" why would you refuse to clarify them when YOU ASKED for them?
you don't believe Israel has a right to exist and should be wiped from the area.
Can you provide a quote?
No? I didn't think so. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 7/9/2009 6:54:53 PM | And your thoughts aren't worth a sh*t to me. You continually evade, weasel, avoid, and play a stupid shell game in giving your position on a variety of subjects central to this thread.
"I am under no obligation to express my views..." Did I really see that??  Then why do you write in here? What in the hell do you think we're all doing in here but EXPRESSING OUR VIEWS? You're a sixth-grader trying to debate in a grown-up world. You're really too funny. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 7/9/2009 7:03:21 PM |
"I am under no obligation to express my views..." Did I really see that?? Then why do you write in here? What is it we're all doing in here but EXPRESSING OUR VIEWS? You're a sixth-grader trying to debate in a grown-up world.
Nice try with the partial quote, dude.
Obviously you are incapable of providing any intelligent response if you have to turn this
I am under no obligation to express my views in the way you decide I'm supposed to express them, to assume that you have the right to demand that is the height of intellectual dishonesty.
into this
"I am under no obligation to express my views..."
just to make a point.
You continually evade, weasel, avoid, and play a stupid shell game in giving your position on a variety of subjects central to this thread.
I haven't done
evade, weasel, avoid, and play a stupid shell
I've stated quite clearly that I will make my position clear when we have agreed to the groundrules YOU ASKED for.
You on the other hand...
Well, we're still trying to get you to clarify the groundrules YOU ASKED for.
Don't think me stupid.
Why the hell not when you're acting that way. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 7/9/2009 7:05:40 PM | | Btw, if you want to stop this personal back and forth all you have to do is stop taking quotes out of my posts and responding to them. But once you do, don't start whining about being picked on by others. You leave yourself wide open to it, smart*ss. | |
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Kaos86
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Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 163 | |
| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 7/9/2009 7:11:28 PM | cite your sources , this sounds like stuff from a hate site.
Perhaps you are right!
I was actually hoping you would say that...
Those were all taken right out of Aljazeera.
Go to the Aljazeera site and search your self.
Is Aljazeera a hate site?
Is Aljazeera a Right Wing NeoCon site? | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 7/9/2009 7:15:49 PM |
But once you do, don't start whining about being picked on by others.
don't recall that I ever have "whined" about being picked on.
You seem to be under the impression that you are p*ssing me off somehow.
Can you show me where I wrote anything about being picked on?
You leave yourself wide open to it, smart*ss.
Dude, I'm not the one that posted this message about groundrules, that was YOU
Let’s get some simple agreements out of the way first.
Israel has a right to exist.
Definition of “aggressor”: For one side to be considered the principal aggressor means they must attack first without “any” provocation. That also does NOT include defending oneself by responding to attacks instigated or initiated by others.
And then refused to clarify them because it would undermined my position, that was YOU. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 7/9/2009 8:29:49 PM | | couldn't find any quotes from Mahmoud on Aljazeera, did find a few stories on the zionists slaughter of the Palestinians in Gaza, also an interesting headline: US politician urges sabotage in Iran. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 7/9/2009 10:50:12 PM |
Btw, if you want to stop this personal back and forth
Actually, you know what, since you've already exposed your bias pretty clearly I'll put an end to this now.
When you posted this set of groundrules
Let’s get some simple agreements out of the way first.
Israel has a right to exist.
Definition of “aggressor”: For one side to be considered the principal aggressor means they must attack first without “any” provocation. That also does NOT include defending oneself by responding to attacks instigated or initiated by others.
You were trying to trap me into a postion where you thought I couldn't refute your argument without repudiating the groundrules or by not accepting them give you an opportunity to label me anti-Israel and to try to dismiss my arguments as biased. You thought you kenw just EXACTLY what my position was and you couldn't have been more wrong.
When I questioned you about clarifying your ground rules you immediately began to accuse me of anti-Israeli bias because you thought you knew where I was going with it. Again, you had no clue.
Every time I asked you to prove your allegation and offered to talk about your groundrules you simply repeated the allegation and tried to "shame" and bully me into accepting your trap while refusing to discuss the groundrules because you thought you knew what my agenda was. Not once did I question your supposed commitment to the Palestinians. Once more, you were lost in the wilderness.
You have no clue why I asked you those questions and the reason is your totally pro-Israeli, anti-Palestinian bias. You like to try to hide it with your ever-so-generous "gifts" to the Palestinians but that is a sham, a cover that you don't believe will ever have to be made good on.
How is this obvious?
Your first groundrule
Israel has a right to exist
Totally Israeli-centric. You make not one mention of any concommitent right for anyone else. Oh, you will oh-so-magnanimously toss the Palestinians a favour but you won't make it a right equal with Israel's and equally enshrined. Instead you treat it as a gift that you will condescend to bestow out of the kindness of your heart.
It never even occurred to you to include a concommitent right for anyone else other than Israel, equally ensconced, equally as inviolable, equally as necessary.
You made a great todo about how
Israel has a right to exist
Was an inseperable element, an nonnegotiable factor and a necessary condition for the discussion but never once offered such lofty status to anyone else.
And again, each time I offered to discuss these groundrules you merely repeated your allegations, refused to prove them and refused to discuss your groundrules. It never occurred to you to consider the possibility that I may have wanted no more than a truly and honestly balanced statement that favoured each side equally.
And that is because of your pro-Israeli, anti-Palestinian bias. It led you to believe that you were so astute that you knew with absolute certainty what my position was.
My questions to you were to test the sincerety, the validity, the honesty, the truth, of your supposed commitment to a truly fair, equal and balanced consideration to both sides of the issue of the issue.
I very clearly stated that my only interest was to "balance the coin", to be certain that there was someone to expose the mess that so many want to sweep under the rug.
I was very clear that my views would become known and all you had to do to hear them was to discuss the groundrules with me.
If you truly were sincerely, honestly and truthfully committed to a truly fair, equal and balanced consideration to both sides you would have been willing to discuss it and then draw your conclusion as to my motives rather than simply assuming you were astute enough to know them before hand.
What you are talking about here is, essentially, a universal principle (it would be inconsistent to apply it to one people and not to another), a fundamental right to a self-governing national homeland.
The expression of that universal principle that I would have offered, after I was convinced of the sincerety, validity, honesty and truth of your commitment to a truly fair, equal and balanced consideration of both sides, as a first and ideal statment of principle was this:
"All persons who comprise an identifiably distinct people based on race, religion, ethnicity, creed, etc and who have a long-standing historical attachment to a geographic territory based on that distinct identity are entitled by right to a self-governing national homeland within that territory.
And by everybody, I mean everybody. The Jews, the Palestinians, the Tamil, the Timorese, the Native Americans, everybody who seeks a national homeland in their respective regions.
The right you are talking about is a right that is due all peoples on the planet, it is not the exclusive privilege of only one or a few.
Now does that sound fair and balanced enough to you?
Unfortunately it is far too late to go back and discuss them now.
You've exposed your true colours and all your phoney assertions of supporting Palestinians equally have been shown for the sham they are, a mere bauble, a trinket that you deign to toss their way but not truly a right. You've flown your true anti-Palestinian bias like a flag for everyone to see.
The most obvious conclusion to draw is that you left any mention of Palestinian rights out of your groundrules because you had no intention of ever truly considering them as having equal right.
Any commentary you have on the subject will now be tainted as disingenuous and intellectually deceitful by this bias you so unwittingly exposed for all to see.
The morals of this sad tale?
Make sure you hide your own bias well enough that others can't see it before you start alleging it of others without proof.
Don't go around thinking that you are astute and intelligent enough to assume others motives when you aren't equipped to pull it off. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 7/10/2009 12:09:37 AM | Mungojoe
I very clearly stated that my only interest was to "balance the coin", to be certain that there was someone to expose the mess that so many want to sweep under the rug.
And you are willing to lie, pretend you had military service in two armies, as a Ranger, in the Golan and, ridicule others who served honorably in order to vilify Israel to do so. What a stand up guy. Your stated motives are rather suspect given the underhanded ways in which you present yourself.
Mungojoe
The right you are talking about is a right that is due all peoples on the planet, it is not the exclusive privilege of only one or a few.
Motown
I accept the Palestinian right to a homeland and a two-state solution.
Golly. Both of your agree on something. Unless of course Mungojoe the 'Ranger' is going to ask something a liar would ask when asked a direct question like 'Do you mean Palestine specifically as a Arab homeland?'
Mungojoe
'I had to duck enough IDF rounds while there to have a, well, somewhat more realistic picture of it than most natural-born North Americans '
'I have, for several years, Army to be exact and in the Canadian Army, also for several years and a tour as a UN peacekeeper on the Golan (where the IDF likes to shoot and bomb peacekeepers with uncanny regularity).'
'I too have been there, in a military capacity with UNTSO. Except the only people who took pot-shots at me weren't Arab or Palestinian, they were IDF and acting under orders.'
We're duckng your lies for sure but, keep coming back Mungojoe, you may make a top google rating for bullshitteer yet. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 7/10/2009 12:53:32 AM | Whiskeypapa
couldn't find any quotes from Mahmoud on Aljazeera, did find a few stories on the zionists slaughter of the Palestinians in Gaza, also an interesting headline: US politician urges sabotage in Iran.
You can find the source easily by entering keywords of 'al jazeera' and the quote. took me thirty seconds. However, a considerate poster would and should include the link with the quote unless it is obvious. Just to save you the trouble.
http://english.aljazeera.net/archive/2005/10/200849132648612154.html
"The establishment of the Zionist regime was a move by the world oppressor against the Islamic world," the president told a conference in Tehran on Wednesday, entitled The World without Zionism.
"The skirmishes in the occupied land are part of a war of destiny. The outcome of hundreds of years of war will be defined in Palestinian land," he said.
"As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map," said Ahmadinejad, referring to Iran's revolutionary leader Ayat Allah Khomeini. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 7/10/2009 9:51:11 AM |
What a stand up guy.
*ahem* (clearing throat)
Why, thank you, thank you very much
Too bad it's not a two-way street.
But I guess these little statements were more prophetic than a Nostradamus quatrain:
I guess I have to admit to not being 100% accurate with that.
It seems that these statements weren't JUST prophetic, they were diagnostic.
"You can't because it's not there... This is just some wild tangent you pulled out of your ass to distract from the ass-kicking."
"If you were one of those people who are SO incredibly desperate and hopelessly untalented as to go searching back through almost 2 years of posts and even other websites in order to pull some wild, off-topic tangent out of your ass..."
Apparently OCD is a factor here as well.
Just can't stop perseverating on the desperate, hopelessly wild tangents pulled from the deepest, darkest recesses of your ass.
I certainly was correct about the "searching through 2 years of posts" and "other websites" part though.
I'm on vacation so I have a reason to have lots of extra time on my hands, what's your excuse for having the time to sift through posts going back to more than 2 years?
And how do you account for the utterly pathetic fact that you actually did it just to pull some desperate, hopelessly wild tangent out of your ass?
I mean really dude, a post from May 2007? Are you sure you're actually over 18?
The utter desperation to try and snatch even the tiniest crumb from the lion's mouth is truly sad.
Actually, that's not quite right either, not "sad", more like "utterly and pathetically juvenile".
I'm wondering how long it will be until you start resorting to comments like "poo-poo head" as well. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 7/10/2009 10:26:02 AM | Mungojoe
"If you were one of those people who are SO incredibly desperate and hopelessly untalented as to go searching back through almost 2 years of posts and even other websites in order to pull some wild, off-topic tangent out of your ass..."
Didn't go searching Mungo, in order to find more of the lies you've been scamming the posters here with, I just used google with the keywords of Mungojoe and Golan to find the one I knew of from before and all these other ones popped up. Took like five minutes. Interesting that when caught in a lie, you blame the guy who catches you. Like it's my fault you're full of it huh?
Mungojoe
I'm on vacation so I have a reason to have lots of extra time on my hands, what's your excuse for having the time to sift through posts going back to more than 2 years?
Some vacation you're having. You rock!
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 7/10/2009 10:34:50 AM |
I just used google with the keywords of Mungojoe and Golan
And how you went searching through over 2 years of posts and other websites makes it less obssessive, juvenile and pathetic, in what way?
It changes the fact that you are pulling desperate, hopelessly wild tangents out of your ass because you got your ass kicked, how? | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 7/13/2009 11:43:32 PM | Mungojoe
It changes the fact that you are pulling desperate, hopelessly wild tangents out of your ass because you got your ass kicked, how?
By sheer reality that you are not who you say you are when attempting to add any weight to your words when you say you have personal experience and degrade those who actually do. In short, one could say you are a liar if they were so inclined. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 7/14/2009 8:27:49 AM | Back on point,.....
no one get's sucked into any war,...unless the powers want to be in it,....period,...not one war ever!!!!! you can check your history if you like,....
They get into them because there is something to be gained by those powers to be,....
and as recent history has shown they can even start them on a whim for no other reason than they want to,.... you need not look further than the Presidency of the baby bush,.....what's scarry is how many people actually bought his incredible pile of bull shit,...lock stock and barrel,....
when I spoke of this before the Iraq war,....that would be #2,....I was poo pooed by many,...ridiculed,....and called a hater of the USA,....
I was amazed at how many people blindly believed,.....I still am,....all the time,....but I am no longer surprised,... | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 7/14/2009 3:04:23 PM | If Israel tries to suck the US into some sort of Israeli - Iran conflict ... then that should be grounds for us to break our ties with them ... IMMEDIATELY. (We should have done that a long time ago, and that would be the best reason I can think of to do it!!!!)
If Israel wants to take on Iran ... for any reason at all ... they need to do it unilaterally and leave us totally out of it.
Israel has been trying to pick a fight with Iran for many, many, many years. It would serve them right if they finally pull the trigger and no one ... especially not the US ... comes to their rescue. | |
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| US Sucked Into Israeli - Iran Conflict
Posted: 7/14/2009 10:20:24 PM | ^^^^^^^^^^
LOL...and she's back!!! It's funny that such a serious subject calls for such gleeful emoticons...Methinks a particular poster is a tad too over-zealous in her "unbiased" "serious" analogy" of politics "ISRAEL trying to pick a fight with IRAN?" . LOL...Now THAT statement is hilarious...!!!!!!!!! | |
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