| Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 6/30/2008 5:32:39 AM | "Truth"...like "security" and "trust" is a term that only has the value given to it by the user of the word.
Truths: Abortions and gay "marriages" "harm" no one but the people involved.
While I believe that statement to be true...how many others would not?
Whenever I hear the word "truth"...I always steady myself for a lie...or another person's interpretation of something. | |
|
| Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 6/30/2008 6:02:00 AM | I really see "truth" as being highly dependent on what one's filters are, and we all have them. Then your perception of events causes you to interpret things differently. There are also people out there, with THEIR filters and agendas, that are trying to manage your perception of things in a very real manner.
Those filters can be political. If we take conservatives and liberals, those labels are reflections of the filters involved in looking at the world. One of the reasons our political systems are so effective, compared to other alternatives, is that ( in the best of times) these two different sets of filters balance each other out to find the best overall solution.
Those filters can also be cultural, I've spoken about that difference as well. We can see that in the differing views of individual rights vs collective ones, or in how "free speech" is defined. Those "truths" may appear to conflict with the "truth" you know, if you fail to see the effects of those filters.
The job of the spinmeisters in todays world is to gently massage those perceptions towards their own pre-determined goals. That's done in a way that's almost imperceptible, and can be highly successful if done correctly.
The job isn't to shift the totality of the population to one "truth", it's more to simply effect enough people to affect an overall opinion shift towards the target.
Some good examples would be post Katrina, when (out of the blue) you had a group of people all coming out and suddenly mentioning EXACTLY the same phrase about "the Blame Game" . I'm quite positive that wasn't accidental, or that someone thought that up over their morning coffee. It was probably created by a PR person.
They took "responsibility" and re-branded it as a negative.  That's quite a brilliant political idea, at such a moment, and enough people bought it to reduce the impact of Katrina afterwards. Again, you don't have to reach everyone with it.
It's the same with the lead in to the war in Iraq. You never directly say Iraq was involved in 9/11, but you repeat both the words Iraq and 9/11 in the same sentence over and over again. You suggest meeting that "may or may not have occurred" , even when you know they haven't. You mention yellowcake uranium and aluminum tubes (when you know they aren't really factual) , and then "smoking guns and mushroom clouds".
The children will color between the lines you draw to complete the picture you want. It's like one of those "connect the dots" drawing books, really. "wink:
I say "cut and runner" , you say "democrat".
It's almost a Pavlovian response to having your bell rung. | |
|
| Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 6/30/2008 6:12:10 AM | MG, you are describing "truthiness", not truth. And there is a big difference, to me, between interpretations of events and the events.....or lack thereof.......of events themselves.
I can excuse different interpretations of an event, thats actually a good thing because most causes are multifactorial and most people make the mistake of committing to single causes......... but we seem to hardly even get real information on the actual events themselves these days .....which is pretty frightening. | |
|
| Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 6/30/2008 6:49:37 AM | @Stefano... I completely agree with you...
...but we seem to hardly even get real information on the actual events themselves these days .....which is pretty frightening.
The more I read this thread, the more I get confused it seems. The concept of truth seems to alude me...
Example: The search for the TRUTH...
8:15 a.m. First period of the morning... A student is in a very very bad mood (the young man in question is 17 years old. He is built like a young man. ) He seems confused and disoriented... I gently ask him to try and concentrate and follow the class.
8:35 a.m. He becomes more and more irritable and refuses to open his note book and refuses to listen to the lesson.
8:40 a. m. I ask him to accompany in the hall in order to talk to me... Makes a big scene...
8:42 a.m. Refuses to communciate... I cannot allow him to be in the class... I send him to the "time out" place... He is insulted and goes there and I heard he just lost it...
The truth... It could be all kinds of reasons... The outcome was the same... He was in a bad mood... Whatever the truth was, it made him so irritable that he could not concentrate in class...
What happened?... He ended up in the principal's office and he had to go to detention which made him lose his shift at his part-time job which in turn made his "manager" at the gas station upset at him... Potential to lose his job...
THE NEXT DAY
Before the class, I crossed him in the hall. I gently approached him and simply asked...
"What happened?... You are a good person... You need to help me help you sort of speak... "... I waited... patiently....
His eyes got all misty... I motioned for him to follow me to a discreet place. I realize young men have their pride and they are very fragile sometimes...
Anyway... He litteraly blurted out... His baby brother is teething and basically, no one sleeps at home and his mother is always in a bad mood and his father seems to escape by working overtime...
The night before, he came home around midnight from his part-time job, he was a little hungry. There was no milk left, hardly anything to make a snack and he went to bed hungry and just was not able to sleep because of his baby brother.
Now... None of this was said at the principal's office. He does look a bit "rough around the edges"... Leather jacket and all... He is a good kid though...
Now... I realize this is a simple situation... I often wonder... When we really get to the truth, does perception change?... Is the truth so powerful that we can overcome the short term pain and go for long term gain sort of speak...
Conclusion to my little story... If anyone cares... I went to the assistant principal and with the permission of the young man in question, I told her the REAL STORY behind the behaviour and I strongly suggested we need to cut him some slack.
We made an arrangement for him to better function in my classroom and I arranged for him to do his detention time under my supervision during lunch so that he would not lose his part-time job.
The family is not well off. His money is basically to support himself for clothes and he is trying to save for college.
Anyway... I realize it is not the most intellectual post, but I just keep wondering ...
I often wonder... What if I never attempted to talk to him when I crossed him in the hall?... Would I just have lived with the perception of MY TRUTH?... Rather than deal with the REAL TRUTH?...
Do politicians actually know the truth? If so, do they willfully manipulate it to suit their agenda?... We all seem to think so... Do they know what the real truth is really? Do they just take the advice of his aids with their own percption of THEIR TRUTH...
I know they do that but what is the long term cost to the masses that are just tooo dumb, (Yes I will say that), to realize that we need to take everything the media tells us with a grain of salt?...
Are we as a mass of population, sooooo easily manipulated?...
I'm off... I'm thinking too much, I have to shut it down or my brain will explode...
Go have a look... male and female brains... It is a bit off topic, but it may make some people laugh... There is some TRUTH to it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuMZ73mT5zM
 | |
|
| Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 6/30/2008 8:52:38 AM | | I am a big fan of truth, so things like this always disturb and anger me. The world and this country have almost made truth bad. Despite protestations otherwise, most people don't really want to know the truth. They want to hear what they want to hear, or want to hear that what they already think is true, is true. Most people don't want the actual truth. In this world, the more people lie and cover things up. the more they think they can get away with. It sucks and I hate it, but that is the way of many people these days. One of the biggest problems with truth in the U.S. is that there is absoultely nothing that encourages/ensures/requires that any news organization tells the truth. This includes all forms of media and newspapers. These are all businesses and their purpose is to make money, not tell the truth. They will say whatever they feel will get them the most money. For example, I once saw an artcle in a major newspaper that said that Milk killed more people every year than drunk driving. Pretty screwed up huh? | |
|
| Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 6/30/2008 9:11:24 AM | annasthasia, nice story, thank you. The truth about people is sometimes very humbling, but always good and so important to find out.
evilside:
You seem to have swallowed a line of propaganda whole.
I'm not sure who or what you refer to with multiculturalist, globalist, etc....why dont you elaborate?
As far as Iran's intentions, you have no idea what their intentions are and so far as our own intelligence agencies are concerned, as reported some months ago, there is no evidence they have any wish for a nuclear weapon.
Think about it: why would a nation of 60 million people want to commit suicide? Life is pretty good in Iran, at least for most ... why would they wish to do something that would bring them certain destruction?
It's people who mindlessly repeat other people's lies and propaganda that are part of the problem, friend.  | |
|
| Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 7/1/2008 12:36:33 AM | Truth is gone. We can not really handle truth. We live in the world of 'everything is ok'. As they say the truth hurts. Why would we desire to hurt. | |
|
| Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 7/1/2008 6:09:33 AM | Ok... I have read this thread with great interest and I have pondered about the question... "Whatever happened to truth?"...
Is it possible that the truth is sometimes not the best solution for the masses?
What I mean is, that one person may handle the truth, but a group of people cannot because we all have our own interpretation of the truth... Therefore, it is sometimes better to "sugar coat" it in order to better convince the masses.
Now, is it wrong?... It all boils down to the degree of the intentions. If the intention is good, then maybe it is not wrong, perhaps it is the way to go but if deception is the goal then it is wrong. (I am trying to point out the grey areas.)
I came across these ideas... I quote...
... Deception is not a "woman's problem" or even a uniquely human phenomenon, for that matter. From viruses to large mammals - from desease-causing microbes to baboons and chimps - deception is continually at play: an African beetle kills a few ants and attaches their carcasses to its body in order to enter an ant colony to feast undetected; achimp misdirects her group away from a food source, covers up her own movements so that the location of the food can't be traced, and returns later to dine by herself. Many baboons and chimps, when threatened, make themselves appear larger... Organisms that do not improve their ability to deceive - and to detect deception - are less apt to survive...
... People justify lying, however, if they believe it serves a protective end or greater good... What has changed are cultural norms, and we have changed with them. As creatures of culture and context, our beliefs about "constructive lies" shift with the political climate of the day.
Taken from the book,"The Dance of Deception", by Harriet G. Lerner
Is it possible that in order to assure the "environment" that we live in we NEED to be LIED to?
Like some posters have said... We, as a mass, cannot handle the truth.
The truth may threathen our ability to "survive".
Would the truth, create such shifts in our way of thinking that it would change our way of life? Will the next generation, and our children's children be able to survive if we "adapt" and deal with the truth?...
I believe, we do not have a choice. Times have changed and the leaders of our country, lie not to preserve the greater good, but only for their own welfare, sort of like the African beetle. The beetle will feast on the unsuspecting aunts...
Just musing...
| |
|
| Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 7/1/2008 10:42:11 AM | Clark keeps apologizing for his comments because it is Independence week and McCain is a war hero. McCain can be an hero, and still Clark not think he is qualified to be the President. That is Clark's truth based on his experience. Why must we keep apologizing for stating what we believe is the truth. Yes, Anna the truth may not be good for the masses. We have all learned how to be politically correct.
Have a Blessed Day! | |
|
| Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 7/1/2008 1:12:49 PM | I read a book many years ago, Snapping: America's Epidemic of Sudden Personality Change.
http://www.amazon.com/Snapping-Americas-Epidemic-Sudden-Personality/dp/0964765004/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1214941899&sr=8-1
The writers created an interesting hypothesis, something they called 'information disease'.
A summary of the hypothesis is, the human mind takes in information through the prism of the information already contained in it. This has nothing to do with the truth or falsity of the information, it has to do with how the person perceives the world. If the information coming in conflicts with the information already there, the new information will be rejected or colored to fit a person's preconceptions.
This book was mostly about cults; Moonies, Krishnas, Scientologists and that. These groups can create extreme versions of information disease. They use similar tools; isolation, lack of sleep, poor nutrition, constant chanting or 'lessons' in the groups 'theology'. Eventually the victim undergoes a 'snapping moment' where their perception of the world undergoes a complete change.
There were two examples that stood out for me. One former Moonie, when confronted by his parents while still a member, no longer believed they were his parents. He said you could have hooked him to a lie detector and it wouldn't have wiggled when he denied them. A former Krishna said he saw the world outside the temple in shades of gray, as if it was darkly overcast.
That's how severe information disease can get.
It could be argued we all suffer from information disease to some degree. Our perceptions are shaped by a lifetime of information. The more information the less likely you are to take new data raw. It's always going to be colored by your past. In some, maybe many cases, the truth of information may be lost because of what we already know.
My own conclusion from this is that we have to be self aware. We have to know who we are and where we came from. Then we can know that what we learn has more to do with what we know than whether new knowledge is true or not.
Unfortunately, many people aren't aware. And see no reason to be. | |
|
| Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 7/1/2008 2:02:04 PM | Evilside, well, I see you got your belief system going there and seem pretty cool with it and baby, I'm not going to touch that belief system with a ten foot pole, so I am just going to wish you well and hope that works really good for ya. ok?  | |
|
| Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 7/3/2008 12:45:43 AM | The Media Can Legally Lie
3 links so you know its not bullshit.
http://www.relfe.com/media_can_legally_lie.html
http://www.rense.com/general35/MEDIA.HTM
http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-18336366_ITM | |
|
| Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 7/3/2008 1:34:39 AM | I don't know why it is so surprising that we are being manipulated. All of the world's media are now owned by just 7 multinational corporations. Do you think truth and justice is what they're interested in promoting? No, it's whatever lines their pockets and they do it without shame or remorse.
It's difficult to be a discerning adult but the internet has helped. Not that there isn't plenty of garbage there too. Small wonder the Big Seven are so anxious to reign it in. | |
|
| Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 7/6/2008 2:28:14 PM | thestefano- thanks. It's interesting. I was on another forum on a different website, where I ran into a multiculturalist. Basically, she told me that there is no truth. Truth she said, can not offend anyone and cannot restrict other peoples actions or beliefs. Each person and culture has thier own truth.
I tried to explain that sometimes the truth is offensive, sometimes we don't want to hear it. Like when a woman asks me, "Does this dress make me look fat?" Well, the truth is that it makes her look like Bessie the milk cow. But, she doesn't want to hear the truth.
So, I'm not real sure what the answer is. I just know that there seems to be a strong effort underway to make TRUTH, something that is very questionable. Which is sad. | |
|
| Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 7/6/2008 5:28:04 PM | And you are very welcome, evilside.
I do believe there is truth and I do believe that many people lie, some lie so much that theyve abandoned truth altogether and believe their own lies.
Sit for a minute and set a cup in front of you. Look at it and ask, "do I know the truth about this cup?".
Please tell me your answer. | |
|
| Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 7/6/2008 6:28:48 PM | Well the BBC is still toying with it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/
(second thumbnail in) | |
|
| Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 7/6/2008 7:00:20 PM | The truth is right before your eyes it can not be denied it can be debated but that will not change it
The truth is $4 a gallon gasoline is driving up the costs of every thing it touches, The truth is OUR dollar is losing value, The truth is we are heading for a depression driven by high energy costs and a war we could not afford to wage.
The truth is WE would rather debate it then resolve it, The truth is WE are responsible for the decisions made by those WE elect into office as public servants. | |
|
| Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 7/6/2008 7:11:26 PM | This is all interesting reading and you all have a good understanding of what is going on.
Thats good we need to be aware of what the truth is .
My dad always said read between the lines and you will find the truth being that the media in the US is run by mega corporations who controll what is put into our heads every second of the day.
another analogy is to follow the money and there shall the truth lie | |
|
| Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 7/6/2008 7:30:57 PM | | Very Cool Peace Teach. It's all illusion and until you have belief, there is not any truth. There is cause for concern. I think the only truth is only going to those that believe. http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/ Skip the first 5 minutes and Do Not get involved with the theology part of this movie. Read, watch, and pay attention. ;) | |
|
| Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 7/7/2008 8:29:23 AM | Wow... I watched the whole thing!!!
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com
You know... something strange happened after I watched it... My computer made a strange sound and asked me to send the "error" to microsoft...
I wonder... Will I be then identified as a "terrorist"?... I wonder... (Just my imagination I am sure... ? )
... Anyway, this whole thing reminds me of a certain race found in Start Treck the next Generation... Each individual was part of the "collective" all governed by a central station... Each human or any other individual of any other species or race was altered to have improved vision, strength and their sole purpose was to make sure that the central station was well maintained. Simply, without the central station, all would die since they would not be told what to do... What I found interesting is that they had no name... They were identified with numbers only. 3 of 5... (numbers in sub groups...) etc. It assured that there would be no individuality...
For the readers...
The idea of the RFID chip really really scares me... RFID = Rockerfeller I D chip...
Basically, all humans born will have a chip implanted and all movements will be "monitored". If a certain person does not obey. The chip will be deactivated and the person will not be able to function in all the every day activities of society.
What I understood, it is not only a tracking device but you will not longer need a wallet of identification papers. All will go throught this chip...
I agree, we need to go back to our roots and the "natual" links of the earth in order to evolve... We need to break this cycle...
Wow.. just Wow... It gives ideas and enlightment... Part of me though still wants to "believe" it isn't so... Surely, the "REAL" power behind the manufactured governments are not that EVIL... Scary...
Good stuff... | |
|
| Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 7/9/2008 1:05:24 AM | Truth left when God was kicked out of schools and young children were no longer taught that it was important to be truthful....when man has no higher authority...namely God..our Father in Heaven...then man makes up the rules as he see fit...everyone doing his own thing..(A house divided cannot stand) instead of all peoples going by the same set of rules as given to us by God. In Unity..
Answer...lack of God and biblicle teaching..It used to unite us and made this country great..People used to have a greatful heart for what they did have..Now...people are always complaining about everything. And lying is much easier.. Its just going to get worse as with each generation...unless we make some drastic changes...Maybe get back to God like we used to be...It was a much better time in America than it is now.. | |
|
| Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 7/9/2008 2:40:36 AM | | I think the truth went out with political correctness. Trying to be non offensive is one thing, but sometimes the truth hurts. If a person must lie to keep from being offensive, whats the use of saying anything?I may see an issue as the truth, but another person with a different experience may find the same thing to be a lie. | |
|
| Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 7/9/2008 7:52:15 AM | | Like John Denver said, ... "the truth is hard to come by". The basic problem is that truth is not cheap and too many people just aren't willing to pay the price for it. Or like the wise man said, ... "buy the truth and sell it not". | |
|
| Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 7/9/2008 8:11:16 AM | "You cant handle the truth!!"
Prime reason why I dont converse with people about what I do for a living | |
|
| Whatever happened to TRUTH?
Posted: 7/9/2008 8:18:35 AM | | annasthasia...Thanks for that...Your life experience with that kid is an example of what I address daily at work as a therapist...Most people would be shocked if they knew the real truth hidden behind what others do...People make all sorts of false assumptions about others and situations based on surface infomation | |
|
Home
login 
