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| Christianity 'could die out within a century'
Posted: 7/1/2008 5:44:58 PM | G O O D R I D D A N C E !
I can't wait for the world to become a place where people are finally able to THINK for THEMSELVES and not be labeled negatively for it - so long as they keep their ethics in check.
down with the brainwashing! down with the brainwashing!  | |
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| Christianity 'could die out within a century'
Posted: 7/1/2008 7:19:42 PM |
Your'e right about one thing: it is all crap, its all from the Bible which is apparently the word of a God thing which could'nt write and could'nt remember what it said to one Jewish stenographers after another and ended up contrdicting itself 147 times.... You know, if you're going to criticize God's ability to write, you really should correct your own writing first. There are FOUR spelling errors in your one sentence. It's not a criticism of your primitive writing skills, merely a "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" sort of thing.
You either can't count or your spelling skills are no better than those which you criticise.
Let he who throws stones have good aim, lest someone start throwing stones back at him.
OT: Christianity will still be here in 2108. | |
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| Christianity 'could die out within a century'
Posted: 7/1/2008 8:33:09 PM | Yeah and Human beings could die out in a century
Personally, i see Christianity as a good thing. If a person is a Christian and lives in Truth...he'll be a good person, same thing goes for a Muslim, Buddhist or whatever...the only people that a person should wish to die out are these nut-so radicals that kill in the name of "god", the ones that harm children, that trick people into "donating" thousands of dollars to their "ministry" so they can drive around in BMW's...Last but not least, those that act like that they are somehow superior to you all because of their BELIEFS.
I think a person can be a Christian and NOT be any of those things.
This world wont be as ONE with Christians screaming you must be saved Anymore than it'll be with the Non-religious saying the Christian/Muslim/etc is brainwashed.
For a few of you, I must ask, what if your Christian friend loves you as himself, and walks the Christian walk WHY would you still want him to "die out"??.......the same thing applies for the muslim, the atheist. The idea that a person dislikes a specific belief so much they wished it would "die" is beyond me; especially if that belief has changed someone for the better? (I'm not talking just Christianity here, any religion)
Personally, I hope everyone goes on being free to believe as they would like in this world. If something makes them happy and a good person i hope it continues existing....whatever that may be. | |
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| Christianity 'could die out within a century'
Posted: 7/1/2008 9:48:58 PM |
For a few of you, I must ask, what if your Christian friend loves you as himself, and walks the Christian walk WHY would you still want him to "die out"??.......the same thing applies for the muslim, the atheist. The idea that a person dislikes a specific belief so much they wished it would "die" is beyond me; especially if that belief has changed someone for the better? (I'm not talking just Christianity here, any religion)
No one wants the person to die out, you want the superstitious mythology to die out so the human race can progress beyond 2000 year old lies, contradictions & general ignorance. | |
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| Christianity 'could die out within a century'
Posted: 7/1/2008 10:05:03 PM | | Kind of curious what we would progress to? Limey, I am interested in hearing your idea of the Utopia that would happen when everyone stopped believing in God. Care to share your ideas with us? | |
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| Christianity 'could die out within a century'
Posted: 7/1/2008 10:41:04 PM | I read somewhere that France may well become a majority Muslim place in not too many years. I don't think anyone around during the French Revolution would have imagined that.
Xtian is certainly on the wane in GB, but I'm sure some other superstition will crop up. Human history is littered with gods once popular, but now forgotten. And we keep getting these new faiths that spread like wildfire, yet are so preposterous the god of the Xtian bible seems somewhat plausible in comparison. Mormons, Scientology, etc.
On the bright side, it looks like the more intelligent people are, the more likely they reject all superstition. Add to that, people as a whole are getting more intelligent. | |
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| Christianity 'could die out within a century'
Posted: 7/2/2008 10:55:33 AM | History has already spoken. In the Soviet Union and Eastern bloc the atheistic goverments tried everything they could to destroy other faiths. The end result of these persecutions were millions were arrested tortured and executed, all Church propety was seized and turned to secular use, and many generations of youth were indoctrinated to the tenants of atheism, but Christianity has survived and come back stronger. The Cathedral that Stalin tore down to make a swimming pool has been rebuilt with millions of dollars in donations. Boris Yeltsin was buried their. The persecutions also drove many refugees to the West and they brought with them their living faith into a largely secularized Western culture. So just as the pagan Roman persecutions of Christianity benefitted it by driving people closer to God and boosting missonary activity. The atheist persecutions of the 20th century have only served to strengthen Christian faith. | |
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NERO1
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Joined: 3/8/2008
Msg: 58 | |
| Christianity 'could die out within a century'
Posted: 7/2/2008 1:55:41 PM | To some extent however official gov't repressions of religions DID work, in both the short and long terms. Hoxha's complete repression of Islam in Albania has left Albanians (whether still there or in the "diaspora") as some of the least religious of all Muslims; many are "Muslim" by cultural identification only, for all intents & purposes. Ataturk's insistence on secularism has also left the Turks a relatively "cultural"-only lot of Muslims. Granted, religiosity varies amongst individuals, as anywhere, but those two examples alone are representative of large numbers of Muslims whose grandparents or great-grandparents likely were far more religious than they themselves are due not only to modernity but also due to having grown up under regimes which deliberately shut out the religion from life. You also don't see as many devoutly religious Chinese for example either and perhaps a case could be made about the former USSR countries as well (excepting perhaps the usually devoutly Catholic Poles who were also a part of the Soviet Union).
What official gov't repression under Communist or secularist states did not accomplish, modernity in many ways has. Look at Spain and Port., Italy, and France ; the old "Latin Arch" countries where Catholicism formerly had its strongest hold over day-to-day life. Today, in Italy or Spain, although about 80 to 90% of the native-born will often say "Catholic" if pressed on what their religion is , like the nominally Muslim Albanians less than half that number can identify as actively practicing.
Sure , in Italy or Spain they may still wear Catholic religious jewelry or show up in St.Peter's (if they can) if the Pope dies, but so many are hardly truly devout or practicing members of their stated religion. There are American Catholic converts for example who are far more serious and devout (just as there are American-born Muslim converts who are far more devout than Albanians or Turks who were born into Muslim families). Much depends on the environment. Western Europe is said to be entering the "post-Christian" phase. Perhaps it is true. Whether, or when, more Americans will begin to follow will remain to be seen. | |
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| Christianity 'could die out within a century'
Posted: 7/2/2008 3:55:48 PM | The atheist persecutions of the 20th century have only served to strengthen Christian faith. It could also be said that the religious persecutions of the last 20 centuries have only served to strengthen atheism.
All depends on which side of the persecution you're on. | |
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| Christianity 'could die out within a century'
Posted: 7/2/2008 4:34:22 PM |
Kind of curious what we would progress to? Limey, I am interested in hearing your idea of the Utopia that would happen when everyone stopped believing in God. Care to share your ideas with us?
Reality & common sense. No one ever committed a crime by being *too rational* | |
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| Christianity 'could die out within a century'
Posted: 7/2/2008 7:01:00 PM | | That answer really does not explain the Utopian society that will come about when people quit believing in God. Please explain where will we progress to when all of us start thinking "rational". You have thought about this haven't you? | |
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| Christianity 'could die out within a century'
Posted: 7/3/2008 6:56:03 AM |
What are your thoughts?
Is Christianity dying in America too?
What will take it's place?
I can't speak for the rest of the country, but where I'm from, the deep south, it's alive and well, unfortunately. We have a church on every corner and in many places the traffic on Sunday around them is so heavy, they need police officers to direct traffic. There are more than a dozen or so Christian schools in my town and the debate between evolution and creationism doesn't look like it's ever going to cease.
Buddhism however, proved more attractive than both Islam and Judaism, and was chosen by nine per cent of those questioned.
This is a good thing imo. I'm not a Buddhist, but I understand a bit of what is believed in Buddhism, which seems to me to be more of mental discipline than a religion. I think the reason for it's popularity is societal evolution. The belief in a personal, anthropomorphic god is very primitive imo, and as man learns more about the universe and his place in it, the idea of such becomes more absurd.
As to what will take it's place, I don't see atheism being the belief of choice for the majority, but I see each faith interpreting their scriptures in a more metaphorical way as opposed to the primitive literal interpretation.
I think people will always practice some type of religion as I think religion is and should be about a person's moral character and how to treat their fellow man and to be less self centered and more concerned with the common good for all. It's not about who's god is the right one, which holy book to read or what church you go to. | |
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NERO1
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Joined: 3/8/2008
Msg: 63 | |
| Christianity 'could die out within a century'
Posted: 7/3/2008 8:55:29 AM | QUOTE: This is a good thing imo. I'm not a Buddhist, but I understand a bit of what is believed in Buddhism, which seems to me to be more of mental discipline than a religion. I think the reason for it's popularity is societal evolution. The belief in a personal, anthropomorphic god is very primitive imo, and as man learns more about the universe and his place in it, the idea of such becomes more absurd.
As to what will take it's place, I don't see atheism being the belief of choice for the majority, but I see each faith interpreting their scriptures in a more metaphorical way as opposed to the primitive literal interpretation.
^^ I agree. The notion of an anthropomorphized god with curiously human qualities and characteristics who is personally interested in and involved with the lives of each and every human being is, IMO, very primitive indeed. A holdover from, to quote Christopher Hitchens, "the bawling infancy of our species."
I think metaphorical interpretation (as opposed to vulgar fundamentalism -- a position which is totally indefensible and inane IMO for any serious adult) is probably the way of the future to some extent. I've seen it happening already with certain Christian writers, such as Bishop John Shelby Spong.
Islam probably won't go that route for quite some time, as they've yet to even have anything resembling a "renaissance" or "reformation" (but then look at how Christendom was behaving when it was Islam's age  ). The Christian world however I think is now tending, and will be continuing to tend, more towards metaphorical interpretations as opposed to literal.
If you tell me, for instance, this man was evidently a very interesting spiritual teacher , like the Buddha , with some important messages about how we should live our lives, and so on, but he died tragically young, I'll be interested in hearing more. If you tell me , on the other hand, this man was born of a virgin through an "immaculate conception", began to preach in the last few yrs of his life, performed many literal miracles, literally walked on water, and then literally rose from the dead and literally "ascended into heaven" and that act was the single saving act for all of Mankind and I now have to believe all of this literally in order to be "saved"..........I shut down and cannot go any further in the discussion. | |
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| Christianity 'could die out within a century'
Posted: 7/3/2008 10:45:52 PM | Average Anomaly in message 51:
G O O D R I D D A N C E !
I can't wait for the world to become a place where people are finally able to THINK for THEMSELVES and not be labeled negatively for it - so long as they keep their ethics in check.
I was thinking about this last part of what you said -- "as long as they keep their ethics in check." And I thought I would pose some questions out of sincere curiosity.
How do you propose that these people, who are finally able to think for themselves, who have no influence from the "brainwashing," will "keep their ethics in check?" What is it that encourages such a thing within them? How are they going to be able to do this? Willpower alone? What is their reward for being ethical? Would you say that our current society is "keeping their ethics in check?"
Personally, I don't know a whole lot of people who are truly ethical anymore. I don't think people are very successful at this, from what I see on the news most evenings, world and local. Your mileage may vary. | |
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| Christianity 'could die out within a century'
Posted: 7/4/2008 7:18:36 AM | How do you propose that these people, who are finally able to think for themselves, who have no influence from the "brainwashing," will "keep their ethics in check?" What is it that encourages such a thing within them? How are they going to be able to do this? Willpower alone? What is their reward for being ethical? Would you say that our current society is "keeping their ethics in check?"
It's called common sense and logic. Why do Christians think that their religion is the only philosophy in civilization that carries morality? It's really not all that complicated, morality is a societal construct, designed to make the social structure work without falling apart into anarchy. That's why laws exist. Self destructive behavior is NOT "sin".It's a symptom of ill mental and emotional health. I can use my dad as an example. He was an alcoholic and throughout his life, he seesawed between being a workaholic, alcoholic and gambler (obsessive behavior) and being piously religious. Personally I preferred him drunk because at least drunk, he had a sense of humor. No amount of preaching, walking the church isle or beinig baptized "cured" him. The truth was , he suffered bipolar disorder and alcohol was his form of self medication. This is true of most "sin", and all of those guilt trips priests and ministers put on folks for the most part only exacerbates the already existing problem. Yeah, I know, you're going to point out all of these examples of people you may personally know (even maybe your own story), that was cured of everything from drug addiction to halitosis when the "found Jayzus". These are the folks that I believe, weren't all that bad off and if they were, then when they became religious, they were religious fanatics and basically just traded one dysfunction for another, like an alcoholic who's discovered pills.
People do NOT need religion to be moral. Morals are embedded into our DNA as survival mechanisms much the same way an animal's instincts are born in them. If moral teaching is examined and taught with logic instead of dogma, I believe it will be more succesful. The self destructive should be looked at with a medical/scientific eye and not a holier than thou religious guilt trip with primitive fantasies about invisible people who fight for your mind and soul inside your head. My dad drank because of a chemical imbalance in his brain, NOT because the devil was telling him to! The Christian religion teaches the silly ass doctrine that humans are sinful just by being human (original sin). What a load of crap ! It's just the same song and dance the ancients did on people with pagan gods. Not too different from telling farmers that their crops aren't growing because the sky fairies are pissed off at you for not regularly attending temple services and making proper sacrifices, only now the sacrifices are your hard earned money instead of your animals or worse, your kids.
What is their reward for being ethical?
How about good health and a better life? Why not take an objective look at why morals exist instead of looking at scripture like a programmed automaton and compare the lives of folks who were moral and the lives of folks who weren't? It's pretty self evident. Every evil empire from the ancient civilizations to Nazi Germany and communist Soviet Union collapsed and caused much suffering for their people. Every criminal eventually suffers a bad end. This, if taught properly and dealt with properly instead of shoving religion on people with commandments that might as well say "thou shalt not because I said so", would be succesful imo.
Personally, I don't know a whole lot of people who are truly ethical anymore. I don't think people are very successful at this, from what I see on the news most evenings, world and local.
Having worked in the media for almost three decades, I can tell you it's very sensationalized and not an objective look at the way things really are inspite of how much the networks and local stations claim they are. The basic mechanics of TV, as well as the way capitalism works makes objectivity impossible. History also shows that morality is cyclical. Social systems and conditions ebb and flow with the tides of humanity's mood swings. Don't worry, society won't implode on itself if people stop going to church. | |
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Nergal
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Joined: 5/14/2008
Msg: 66 | |
| Christianity 'could die out within a century'
Posted: 7/4/2008 10:25:26 AM | | I hope so ... let them get raptured off then we cann al have some fun without some stupid Christian pointing out that we are all going to burn in Hell .. | |
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| Christianity 'could die out within a century'
Posted: 7/4/2008 1:35:15 PM | I am not sure whether Christianity will die out within a century, but It is likely that it will diminish in its potency with time. I take the view that Religions, of whatever flavour are like viruses: self replicating, self protecting (institutional) organisms that morph and mutate to survive in a changing environment.
A Virus.....or religion for that matter, that kills off its host before it can spread and replicate among a population, isn't itself going to survive very well....many cults like the Jonestown cult are like this....like Ebola....the disease is so virulent, that it killls its host before it has a chance to spread. Some faiths have become so anaemic, that they have the virulence of the common cold...which is survivable by most people with a healthy constitution.....some faiths are somewhere in between, with morbidity, mortality rates and perniciousness to match.
The panacea...... Education, effective sanitation (rubbish removal), good hygiene , quarantine, innoculation and vaccination......works for organic pathogens....should work for pathogenic faiths too  | |
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