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| Are women satisfied with American men?
Posted: 6/26/2008 1:49:56 PM |
Agree with you here Levi. I realize these types of threads are kind of like asking people "what is the best colour"? Most likely no real definitive answer as there seem to be many varying opinions. Most of which have been heard before anyways.
And yet, A Fortiori, you have been one of the most consistent posters on this thread! Why bother reading and/or posting when there is nothing to be gained? | |
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| Are women satisfied with American men?
Posted: 6/26/2008 1:53:09 PM |
I cant think of ONE case (not saying there isnt though)...but I cant think of ONE or have EVER heard of one case (even in the media) where a woman has gone deliberately shopping for an overseas husband
THIS is specifically why I posed the original question. A man began a forum based on his inability to find Russian profiles on POF. I have heard and read many men specifically seeking women from abroad, but I had never heard a woman say or do the same.
There's tens of thousands of people on this site...so surely you would think...outta all the people who participate in these forums...there must be ONE woman who's chosen the mail order husband path and offer how successful the route was.
I echo this . . . and breathlessly await that woman coming forth.
(Gwen turns blue and passes out.) | |
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| Are women satisfied with American men?
Posted: 6/26/2008 2:02:08 PM | No offense taken. But the fact that an expert says or reports something does NOT necessarily make it TRUE. Anyway, this is a collateral issue and I will not discuss it anymore. Have a great day.
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sure, once in a blue moon a Doctor makes a mistake or a scientist publishes a fake article. It "SEEMS" very rare. Like once in a bluemoon, someone on POF has a totally illogical way of thinking and gets listened to. Come on! I prefer to live in the real world of "reality" not my own misguided delusional thinking.
Gwen, I'll take your stats from most experts most any day. I got a enough nutcase ideas of my own orbiting around. | |
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| Are women satisfied with American men?
Posted: 6/26/2008 2:10:14 PM | And yet, A Fortiori, you have been one of the most consistent posters on this thread! Why bother reading and/or posting when there is nothing to be gained?
I tried to avoid making my input about my opinion, and offered some observations, and some questions, mainly early on in the thread. There have also been others to do the same, great. But it has become apparent to me anyways that there is a certain amount of bashing, strawmen galore, ironic postings on a grand scale, and mainly opinionted posting.... that's my opinion, ironic yet apropos as it would seem. Granted I suppose it comes with the territory, but as far as I'm concerned, I'm really not getting much by way of ideas out of the thread, mainly opinions, pretty much as Levi so accurately put it. Perhaps, as a suggestion, someone could find some kind of stats to actually get an understanding of this question. One guy posted about a book he wrote concerning part of the discussion, it seemed to have potential in regard to facts over opinion. Too bad it kind of died on the vine. I guess it's time to move on afaic. | |
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| Are women satisfied with American men?
Posted: 6/26/2008 2:26:20 PM |
but I cant think of ONE or have EVER heard of one case (even in the media) where a woman has gone deliberately shopping for an overseas husband in the specific hope that he is a "certain way" to fulfill her "idea" of the perfect (subservient?) husband.
hmm... might be that many cultures outside of the west (and certainly not all) are stereotypically on the dominant man/subservient woman model? That many/most western women want relationships based on equality and partnership on a different model and the over-riding perception would be a man from one of these cultures would thus not be satisfactory?
there must be ONE woman who's chosen the mail order husband path and offer how successful the route was.
To go a mail-order route is not ideal for anyone... to go that route you would (it seems to me) to have to be VERY dissatisfied with what you've encountered in your own neighbourhood. So, if women are reasonably satisfied, they wouldn't even consider this.
Further, women still *tend* not to initiate relationships... going a mail order route is so pro-active, I'm quite certain many, likely including the woman herself, would view the woman as desperate for doing so. If the internet still has a wiff of desperation about it for *some people*... a mail order transaction is even more so.
~~~
I don't get the hint of right/wrong I *think* I detect in some of these posts.
Just what occurs to me. | |
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~Kyn~
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Joined: 2/15/2008
Msg: 382 | |
| Are women satisfied with American men?
Posted: 6/26/2008 3:40:33 PM | hmm... might be that many cultures outside of the west (and certainly not all) are stereotypically on the dominant man/subservient woman model? That many/most western women want relationships based on equality and partnership on a different model and the over-riding perception would be a man from one of these cultures would thus not be satisfactory? Point taken margo...but that argues directly in favor of the women & men being money/lifestyle driven.
ie.
1. if it was "role" behind the driving force of these these mail order brides...they simply wouldnt need to leave their own cultures/countries in the first place because what they want is already there.
2. if it was anything except money from a male order husband standpoint...then the stereotypically roled men from other countries...wouldnt even consider it. And those sites DO exist...even if...as I said before regarding women....I just dont know anyone stupid enough to argue for it and deceive themselves into doing it. And I dont.
See belowThere's tens of thousands of people on this site...so surely you would think...outta all the people who participate in these forums...there must be ONE woman who's chosen the mail order husband path and offer how successful the route was. Maybe she'll speak up?
I wont hold my breath though.
To go a mail-order route is not ideal for anyone... to go that route you would (it seems to me) to have to be VERY dissatisfied with what you've encountered in your own neighbourhood. So, if women are reasonably satisfied, they wouldn't even consider this. I dont think it has anything to do with men being dissatisfied with anything except reality. I believe its purely their outdated expectations and not only not gracefully accepting their own 21st century culture within their own country but bandaiding a solution.
Sure Western women have changed, Im more stereotypically driven myself...but thats just life...its what it is and its now.
So therefore...in essence your statement does support what I said earlier.
Please reference my post 226 to see a hypothetical of why this is occuring.Further, women still *tend* not to initiate relationships... going a mail order route is so pro-active, I'm quite certain many, likely including the woman herself, would view the woman as desperate for doing so. If the internet still has a wiff of desperation about it for *some people*... a mail order transaction is even more so.
~~~
I don't get the hint of right/wrong I *think* I detect in some of these posts. I gotta be honest...Im not exactly sure what you are saying above and am finding it difficult to reconcile those two ideas.
One concept argues for the desperation of these acts and then considers it not wrong to take advantage (albeit blindly so with self deception) of any people who are motivated out of their own desperation.
Even if the idea behind it (and I dont think this has been argued) is to "save" someone from a situation, there is no nobility in taking advantage of a people, even if you're attempting to justify it and throwing them a few bones along the way.
I cant help but fundamentally liken it to paedophiles who adopt children.
Taking Africans out of oppressed conditions and turning them into slaves.
Or a pimp who finds a junkie then prostitutes her to make him money
Clearly different examples...but the SAME principles IMO and I think thats why people find it so offensive.
I wouldnt like to see women doing it either.
Whether people agree or not with any of that...I dont much care and neither will I argue it...cos in 16 pages of discussion regarding this particular topic and its tangents....and all the marriages Ive seen under these circumstances....Ive never seen it otherwise... or seen a case to argue its either
a) necessary
b) valid reasoning as opposed to complaint and lack of self reflection and input
c) selflessness
Its a transaction...and you dont make transactions with peoples lives just to get what you want. I cant possibly give an opinion on each individual case and there WILL be some Loved based.
People can do it...sure...but would I support it (the general idea), pursue or consider it "right"? No.
I dont enable. | |
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| Are women satisfied with American men?
Posted: 6/26/2008 4:08:17 PM | the thread asked 'are women satisfied with American men?'
so who could really answer this question other than women, and their opinions, based hopefully from their own experience?
even statistics would be based on womens' opinions....who else could answer it?
and then there were those of us who tried to share the idea that level of satisfaction comes from within and not necessarily from an external source - for it's an internal state.
for anyone who felt offended by my posts, i apologize. it was not my intention at all.
by the way, my experience with marrying an english man and living there was not that different than here, compared to other parts of the world that others are talking about.....only thing is the men seemed to still respect women in general and the women respect the men too (imo). it did not seem to have suffered this terrible plight that has hit here - of many women and men finding too much fault with each other....or so it sounds on these forums, but of course that does make sense from a group of people on an internet dating site, many of whom are single and no longer in relationships.....imo probably more here have experienced dissatisfaction than perhaps a wider group off the site.
and, no, the women there, I found, were not that subservient to their men, but there is still mutual respect....their roles have not been thrown into chaos, like the changes seem to have manifested here.
and for the poster who said he honestly likes to be spoiled by a woman and that's really what he's looking for (and feeling he might receive that more from a woman not from this country) - i understand that - i think spoiling (caring, loving, sharing, being genuinely wishing to help the other be happy and feel loved), probably is what most people would like, actually. (just my opinion)
EDIT to add: just thought of something regarding thinking there must be at least one woman who went the 'mail order route' and could tell us about their experiences - well, have you considered the idea that perhaps they were successful and, therefore, would not be on this site? (smile) | |
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| Are women satisfied with American men?
Posted: 6/26/2008 4:30:51 PM | Satisfied? As with customer service? Who does a woman complain to for improved service?
Satisfied, perhaps. Grateful, she will never admit it.  | |
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| Are women satisfied with American men?
Posted: 6/26/2008 4:32:22 PM |
so who could really answer this question other than women, and their opinions, based hopefully from their own experience?
even statistics would be based on womens' opinions....who else could answer it?
Indeed, who else could answer the question? I expected men to make comments, but how could a man answer that question? Immediately, SOME men took the question as a springboard to (again) justify their thoughts on women from other countries.
and then there were those of us who tried to share the idea that level of satisfaction comes from within and not necessarily from an external source - for it's an internal state.
Satisfaction and happiness do come from within, but there are always outside factors than affect the degrees of what we feel. None of us live in a vacuum--if some do, they are not on POF!
for anyone who felt offended by my posts, i apologize. it was not my intention at all.
If you offended anyone, that was because of the way they perceived what you said, not what you said, and you owe no one an apology.
It is too bad that adults cannot discuss issues, even a moot issue, without resorting to anger and insults.
Sigh. | |
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| Are women satisfied with American men?
Posted: 6/26/2008 4:49:37 PM |
Satisfied, perhaps. Grateful, she will never admit it.
ahhh, perfect point.
ok, i'll admit it
i am utterly grateful for the men in my life - past present and i'm sure future.
i never would have had such a rich life without them! (and even though it was two wonderful british men who fathered my three children, i still connect all men together, really, so words do not describe my gratitude to them for this).
i have three amazing brothers and one pretty incredible father who turned from a totally intolerant tyrant as a young parent raising four children with my mom....into one of the most loving men i have ever known in his later years.
i love men. i have been saying it the whole thread....in between getting sidetracked with so much dissatisfaction (giggle).
and, yes, i am utterly grateful for them....
plus the men i know and have always known are ones who are equally grateful for me too (most of the time :).  | |
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| Are women satisfied with American men?
Posted: 6/26/2008 6:17:13 PM | This is well worth repeating (and sorry if i've double posted now)....
Happiness doesn’t come prepackaged in a box you can buy at the local convenience store. You are not going to find satisfaction from a man or woman anywhere but in your own heart! Bryan Adams said it best, “Search your heart. Search your soul. And when you find me there you’ll search no more.” Satisfaction can not be found in others; you have to be satisfied in your own heart…then seek someone with whom you would like to share that happiness.
author? the ever so clever livetobecreative! | |
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| Are women satisfied with American men?
Posted: 6/26/2008 6:21:57 PM | Message 264:
I think that the second one is a touch more likely. By attempting to "level the playing field" we've ended up with men actually having to be people of substance in order to succeed with the opposite sex. I don't see this as a bad thing by any means.... even if it does mean that I'm only noticed once in a blue moon.
LOL! .Marc.......I owe you $175!!!! (psychiatrist hourly rate) LOL! You have just totally answered what I've been asking myself for years......which is...."why I seem to have such lousy taste in men!" LOL! It all makes perfect sense now! I've never looked for a "breadwinner", or worried too much about how responsible they were. I never figured I needed a guy to support me or my children (even when they were his children too), didn't particularly care about much except.....were they FUN! LOL! Then ya go and do that crazy "M" thing...and they wanna grow up....and then they're not fun anymore....and I get bored! LOL no wonder I'm allergic to the "M" word! | |
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| Are women satisfied with American men?
Posted: 6/26/2008 6:28:34 PM |
I cant think of ONE case (not saying there isnt though)...but I cant think of ONE or have EVER heard of one case (even in the media) where a woman has gone deliberately shopping for an overseas husband in the specific hope that he is a "certain way" to fulfill her "idea" of the perfect (subservient?) husband.
Well, that's 'cause women don't need men anyway, so why bother looking at all?
Besides, why would women look for subservient men overseas? There are lots of them willing to grovel right in their own backyards and more are created every year.
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| Are women satisfied with American men?
Posted: 6/26/2008 6:30:41 PM | | No women are not satisfied with American men and surpise surpise men are not satisfied with american women. Thier is alot of stupid reasons like men she is not young enough or she is to heavy than women say he has to have a job that says he has to have money and a car. they are all resturction people have for not wanting to meet some one. Funny love dont know of these resturctions. | |
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| Are women satisfied with American men?
Posted: 6/26/2008 6:36:03 PM | boo boo, you said something in your post that i was thinking the other day in relation to this thread, but the thought came and went so quickly, i forgot to remember it :)....
basically, i can't blame my dissatisfaction on the men i've known....it's what you said-
"....You have just totally answered what I've been asking myself for years......which is...."why I seem to have such lousy taste in men!"
i laugh with how truthful that is for me too! | |
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| Are women satisfied with American men?
Posted: 6/26/2008 6:44:22 PM |
i laugh with how truthful that is for me too!
Well, yeah..so do I..or at least the ones I picked anyway..so, some dissatisfaction is from the ones I chose..but, even then..there were things about them I liked and still do...
As for US men as a whole...I don't think all men are "bad"..but, I do think some male behaviors of some men...are dissatisfying? But, I know to see those things now, and just not go there? Just like most of us do, one way or the other?
Well, that's 'cause women don't need men anyway, so why bother looking at all?
Well, capitano..I need you to keep posting and making me laugh and think? Does that count?
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| Are women satisfied with American men?
Posted: 6/26/2008 6:44:22 PM |
Satisfied, perhaps. Grateful, she will never admit it.
I don't know all American men, but I am satisfied and grateful for all of the men in my life and for those that have touched my life in some way! | |
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| Are women satisfied with American men?
Posted: 6/26/2008 7:02:06 PM | NO I'm not satisfied with American men, and yes, I have/am looking for another culture at least to some extent. It has nothing to do with that subservient theme on the pages of this thread that I did read. I didn't read all 16 pages yet. And at least the southern portion of Canada seems to be really similar to the US, and NAFTA has made it easier to get jobs there and here.
I'm not satisfied with American men because so many have become trained by the tv and the internet to expect all women to be like the ads and banners that they see on there. Somebody taught them that is what is real but it is not. Hence, barely teenage girls starve themselves etc. American men have been so socialized by all of this, and I can't speak for all of Canada or the European cultures, but it seems that there is a bit less of that. So if American men are almost not an option, then I'm considering elsewhere.
I would definitely be interested in men from some other cultures, such as European, Italian, Australian, Jewish, etc. However, there are obvious issues of long distance dating even in the same city now these days, without going around the world. So I don't know how I could logistically date someone who isn't already here, but I would be willing to do it. And if guy is already in the US, then alot of them have already been trained by their tv, so that doesn't work much either. | |
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| Are women satisfied with American men?
Posted: 6/26/2008 7:05:34 PM | sure, once in a blue moon a Doctor makes a mistake or a scientist publishes a fake article. It "SEEMS" very rare. Like once in a bluemoon, someone on POF has a totally illogical way of thinking and gets listened to. Come on! I prefer to live in the real world of "reality" not my own misguided delusional thinking.
olyman38
Would a man be guilty of misguided delusional thinking if he stated that many women in the US are obese because he knows "for sure" from his own personal observations?
Or would he be guilty of such thinking merely because someone who does not like his assertion claims that he is guilty of such thinking merely on the grounds that he has not quoted or produced statistics to support the statement?
And do you know anything at all about expert testimony or expert evidence on any issue? Experts disagree on everything except the fundamentals in any subject all the time. And if you choose not to believe me on this issue, then just sit through a trial at a court in which expert witnesses are called to give their opinions on either facts or statistics. I guarantee that you will come to realise that disagreements between such experts occur daily and not as you seem to believe "once in a blue moon"
The problem with a certain person on POF is that he does not think at all and he would be much better off if he at least tried to think for himself instead of regurgitating the silly ideas of others. | |
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| Are women satisfied with American men?
Posted: 6/26/2008 7:09:45 PM | | OP - Personally, I think more middle aged women are dissatisfied with men in general (world wide), than women of other ages. I don't think it is a specific country where a man is from, I think it's more the "middle years". Women are in a state of flux during their middle years. They are done raising the kids; they are done "doing for others"; and now they want to live their dreams. Often, husbands or S/O's aren't on the same page. It's the ol growing apart thing that I think breaks up quite a few middle aged relationships. It's either grow with me or splitsville. | |
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| Are women satisfied with American men?
Posted: 6/26/2008 7:17:59 PM |
Well, capitano..I need you to keep posting and making me laugh and think? Does that count?
Not sure... you'd better check with your sistas to make sure it's ok to have that or any need. Better to play safe and say it's a want.
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| Are women satisfied with American men?
Posted: 6/26/2008 7:29:10 PM |
Not sure... you'd better check with your sistas to make sure it's ok to have that or any need. Better to play safe and say it's a want.
giggle...
I might lose that "sistas" card..but, I'm one of those aberrations that thinks need is different than needy and want is a desire, not a necessity?...
I am so in trouble....lol...
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| Are women satisfied with American men?
Posted: 6/26/2008 7:33:44 PM | (~Kyn~) Infact some US men will often argue that american women are gold diggers and thats why they do it...well how stupid's that?.... considering you're entering into a financial contract with someone who's upfront motivated by it in the first place. Guaranteed gold digger *lol* Definition of irony right there.
Not ironic at all. The foreign women are UP-FRONT with what they want; they don't dance around, and say one thing, and then do another. At least when you get the shaft from a foreign woman, you knew what you were getting in to!
"The blow you see coming, hurts less." -- someone-or-other
Arlo  | |
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| Are women satisfied with American men?
Posted: 6/26/2008 7:39:58 PM |
I'm not satisfied with American men because so many have become trained by the tv and the internet to expect all women to be like the ads and banners that they see on there. Somebody taught them that is what is real but it is not.
Extreme make over, slice and dice ... implants, face lifts and NOT exclusive to women either. The Americans are way over the top on this one.
Everyone sculpting to try to attract WHO? Why the opposite sex of course.
Well clearly when so many women AND men are going to such extremes to attract then just what does that tell us about the opposite sex?
Can we say LOOKS and MONEY. That is what most, not all, Americans are all about ... and that is what the rest of the world sees.
Youngest face, biggest breasts, thinnest waist, biggest boat, fastest car, biggest mortgages !!! And biggest dept !!! It just kills me. You need implants to get a date with ALLOT of American men. An American man will pay for his girls breasts before he would pay to get her teeth attended to !!! Isn't that so funny? If you have had breast cancer and without reconstructive surgery ... you are sunk.
American men or women are not satisfied with each other ...
In the States, if you don't have looks AND money you just get passed on by. And the people who passed you by well they very often don't have looks OR money either.
So many people wanting so much and having so little to offer. But then of course who ever mentioned the word LOVE ... I don't think that is in the American vocabulary any more. Lest not here on good old POF
No one wants to really admit the REAL truth. If you aren't living it, your watching it, (Orange county) or reading it. EVERY magazine, every show, every soap, deal or no deal ... money and looks.
Just look at the Y & R compares to Coronation Street ... PLEASE tell me it isn't all about looks, perfect home, perfect hair ... but completely unperfected lives. All screwed up ... just like the soaps. | |
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