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| Cave man days, bring'em back
Posted: 6/26/2008 4:41:08 PM |
Women don't want a man to control them. What they do want is a man who will take control of situations.
Amen sister!
The problem is, they marry guys who they believe are going to continue to grow and become men...and the guys don't...and eventually, she realizes she can have a better life with one less (adult) child under her care.
amen bro... and as they say being a former marine ,66-72 the corp does not make you a man,
you have to be man first then you join and then we'll build em alittle better'!
" ooh rah" "Semper Fi" | |
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| Cave man days, bring'em back
Posted: 6/26/2008 4:46:23 PM |
vaxplant and cuteguy get it. Thank goodness there are still real men out there. It gives a girl some hope.
Awww shucks...
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| Cave man days, bring'em back
Posted: 6/26/2008 5:24:30 PM |
It's been my experience that many women if not most women like an assertive, aggressive man.
Thanks but no thanks. Assertive men are the most likely to try and control you, and I won't have it.
A man who can make decisions without asking his female partner what she thinks, what does she want to do or leaving the decision up to her.
If those decisions involve me, and he doesn't ask what I think, he won't be part of my life for long. I really am not trying to find a new father.
But I do believe women want to be somewhat controlled in a limited way.
I don't know any other way to put it, you are insane. I do not need a keeper. I am an adult, and can control myself thank you very much. | |
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| Cave man days, bring'em back
Posted: 6/26/2008 5:56:50 PM | I believe the only controling i want from my man would be in the
bedroom. But then again i loveeeeeeee to take control there sometime myself,wink.
Nothing wrong with telling a man what to do there either.
Now if he would like to take control of setting up dates and places to go hey im
all for that surprises are always nice. | |
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| Cave man days, bring'em back
Posted: 6/26/2008 6:42:25 PM | | Correction on my earlier comment: Many Anthropologists today are debunking the myth of male dominated stone age societies, not Archeologists. Atlhough it is largely the work of archeologists that helped anthropologists to reach this conclusion. | |
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| Cave man days, bring'em back
Posted: 6/27/2008 6:37:06 AM | in Neolithic times there were matri-focal or women cnetred societies and during this time there was NO EVIDENCE of rape..fortification or violence..
this PEACEFUL...PARNERSHIP ways lasted for a million years
we have had DOMINATOR...societies for only 5000 years and
IT IS NOT WORKING...
for realatiohsips to work we NEED PARTNERSHIP..no t control and agression
GQ
I think this is probably more of a myth. Are you going to tell me when were not men and were all pacific? That's more of a New Age kind of idea
not real logical history. As far as women goddesses that was true in some parts of the world, but not everywhere. Not all societies were so focused on female goddesses
over male goddesses from what I understand. This was true in some areas. The whole world is not India or the Middle East. I agree with the idea of partnership, but not the take on history and applying on the whole ancient world. I need some proof of that that this applied everywhere. I am sure men in ancient times used force. I mean we had weapons, we used violence. I am sure men went to war with each other as primitives and took other men's women. That is a more realistic history.
When someone speaks about female goddesses before Jesus, then they are dealing with Semites. The ancient Semites did have a lot of female goddesses and some Arameans did associate with a god in the feminine. Again, not everyone was Aramean or Semite. That's what I have a problem with that history. I wish it were true that there was actually a time with no fighting and warfare. I have never seen any evidence of that in history books. | |
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| Cave man days, bring'em back
Posted: 6/27/2008 6:48:10 AM | Wow...
Barring the idea of "clubbing" and "cavemen" .... in a very light hearted view of the situation, the OP may be scratching the surface of a much bigger problem that seems to have been generated.
Women talk about wanting that nice, considerate, gentlemanly type of guy.... Yet they are drawn to that flash in the pan bad boy type. Contridiction in realities??? There is something to be said about the Aggressive, out of control, masculine man, that seems to draw women in. Hence the saying, "Nice guys finish last"....
Granted, there's always going to be the select few who are going to take what the OP say's on a LITERAL basis.... and make jokes. Maybe there's an element of truth to it, and in mocking it... they can sweep it under the rug...
But in a world where boys are raised by women, and end up having no idea of what it is to be a man... The OP may be on to something, more than some would like to admit.... | |
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| Cave man days, bring'em back
Posted: 6/27/2008 8:09:01 AM | in response to message #106
"his-tory books" do NOT give evidence you are seeking because they are written by #1 men and #2) are thus biased...
ancient artifacts such as women with drums or vegetation with branches were labeled "woman with cake" and arrows going the wrong way"
WHY?
FROM PERSONAL EXPERIANCE comes personal response..
Primitive HUMANS did not use force..or violence until the Kurgans began to domesticate the horse and swooped down over the steppes of Russia over a 300 year period..
then we have EVIDENCE of fortification and women being taken..
BEFORE that...THOUSANDS of years NO EVIDENCE of that in art..drawings...artifacts found
as for "godesses OVER gods"///////that is your perception
Goddess centred or women centred means..a focus on mother....creation and equality NOT an OVER -NESS or domination...your very wording belies the perpetuation of dibilating notions based on your OPINION..
OPINION is NOT fact...
there are many books and websites some citing 40+ years of research and if you care to do this research as I have for 16 YEARS you will find your evidence..
PEACFUL societies is not a NEW age thing..
the last 5000 years on earth... an eye blink.....the violence..the domination...is NEW..
and
there is vast evidencw of these peacful societies in EUROPE INCLUDING..sCOTLAND,iRELAND,ENGLAND,Wales,Britanny,France..
as well as Malta,Sicily
Attitudes tend to determine what we see and what we FAIL to see or comprehend
Scholars ASSUMED as you do that males played the dominant role and PROJECTED their assumption into thier analysis.
MALE bias together with preconceived religious notion,inaccurate comments,and taranslations blend into explainations of ancient times..
I would be happy to provide websites and an extensice book list for your evidence gathering..which is OFTEN done BEFORE making comments...based on asuumptions//
GQ | |
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| Cave man days, bring'em back
Posted: 6/27/2008 9:19:00 AM |
OK Ladies, you all gave some thought provoking thoughts, but honestly most you that have replied if not all of you would loved to be controled by the right in some manner or another. And please read what i wrote, I don't club women.
Not a friggin' chance.. I had one guy who tried that with me and I learned quickly that I really LIKE being an adult and thinking for myself.
Any man who doesn't take my wants into consideration when making decisions that affect me and or us will soon find himself alone. That is just disrespectful.. in ANY relationship. An adult does not make decisions for another adult.. adult DO make decisions for children BECAUSE they don't have the knowledge base yet to make informed decisions. To treat a woman that way is to put her in the position of a child. This works vice versa... I wouldn't treat my man that way either.
A man with a backbone, and respect for his partner, is a far cry from a controlling macho dumbass.
NO.. women (most I would think) would be completely turned off by this attitude, much less it's manifestation.
I make my own money, have a career where I am in a position of authority, pay my own way, raise my own kid, have my own residence...why in the world would I accept some man just taking over my decision making without consulting me?
The bedroom is a different story.. but still must be mutual consent.
The facts of the neolithic.. from what we know so far is that female statuary and images were the first to be created, fertility symbols, goddesses and such.. for a VERY long time before any phallic or male representation occurs. The first "calendars" were made to track menses.. and there doesn't seem to be any evidence of gender inequality amongst neolithic peoples.. females as well as males were buried with honour..and in some cases both with hunting weapons, badges of honour (status symbols) and other implements that weren't gender specific. The peoples who lived in "stone-age" cultures also seem to have been far more gender equal than agricultural or urban cultures... matrilinear or matrifocus society would have made sense as the main concern was the well-being and perpetuation of the tribe because in a Hunter/Gatherer society ALL members were needed to survive and infant mortality would have been high..childbearing women and children would have had high value, we can see this in cultures such as the Celtic tribes of Europe which were much more female friendly than many other more "civilized" peoples. However, since there is no written record we can only speculate as to how their social structure really worked. The Minoans were a great example of a matrifocus society that was very peaceful AND gender equal, that were also highly advanced.. and that's not as far back as the neolithic but right up to the bronze age. There is plenty of evidence, even if difficult to substantially prove, that early societies worshipped a Creatrix first (ie: Mother Earth, Queen of Heaven, Sea Goddesses from which all life came from), which later had a male consort.. it wasn't until people began to breed animals, till the soil and understand how fertility worked that patriarchy began..with the "owning" of land and inheritance rights becoming important. In many places around the world, women still "own" the land and the only way for a man to tap it's wealth is through marriage.
In defense of Middle-eastern women.. the things we interpret as "anti-woman" are not always seen that way over there.. the head coverings, and in some cases full body coverings, are seen as a protective thing, in honour of women, to protect their privacy and keep them from the hassle of being approached by the unscrupulous...unfortunately it has been twisted by the 'patriarchy" into a control measure for the majority. Not all women over there are maliciously dominated, and the original intent was to honour and protect, and also to show deference to God. Not men. As always the fanatics amongst them have used it to serve their own purposes, but try to research and understand it before making blanket statements that paint all with the same brush.. or read, "Behind the Veil", written by a Persian woman, can't remember her name.. sorry. There are aspects to Islamic society that are not at all understood over here, and they are not all anti-female.
Peace | |
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| Cave man days, bring'em back
Posted: 6/27/2008 10:54:57 AM | I think your observations are wrong.
While a confident man is attractive (given that the opposite is being a milquetoast), I do not believe "many women if not most women" would want a man to make life decisions for her without asking what she thinks. This shows a lack of respect for her and her decision making.
I take it you have never been married? Have you met any women? How did that "making decisions without asking what she thinks" thing work for you? | |
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| Cave man days, bring'em back
Posted: 6/27/2008 12:46:53 PM | Just for the record, Cavemen exsisted in the Palaeolithic era, not the Neolithic era.
This discussion centers around a "caveman" analogy. Some of us are trying to set the record straight, that "cavemen" societies were not particularly male dominated. They shared responsibilities and status more equally and the vast majority of these early cultures worshiped some form of Earth Mother or Godess.
We should stick to the correct term for this time period which was the Palaeolithic era, not the Neolithic era. While the Neolitic era is considered the end of the stone age, only Homo Sapiens existed in the Neolithic era. They lived almost exclusively in shelters that they built for themselves. They hunted, farmed, herded animals and later began using metal tools. The Neolitic era is not the period that most people have in mind when they use the term "caveman".
When most people toss around the term "caveman", they are usually thinking of some part of the Palaeolithic era, when several forms of humans, including Neanderthals and Homo Erectus existed and later coexisted with Homo Sapiens for thousands of years. They lived in caves and and also huts and skin dwellings. The arts of working and knapping stone tools, painting and ritualized burials were all developed in the Palaeolithic era. The classic "caveman" image is more in line with the Palaeolithic time period. I know, Just what we needed, more useless information.  | |
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| Cave man days, bring'em back
Posted: 6/27/2008 1:45:03 PM |
And when that happens, she naturally seeks your leadership and in doing such fulfills her need to be with a strong man.
Horsefeathers. I'm a capable, very intelligent woman who fends for herself perfectly fine without needing 'leadership', thanks.  What I would like is someone who knows at least as much as I do about how the world works. I couldn't believe I had to instruct my 50+-year-old neighbour about how to negotiate with tradesmen.
The shocking thing about this thread is that hoary old ideas are not restricted to hoary old guys. One would have hoped that modernity might have permeated the under-40 minds but apparently not so. | |
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| Cave man days, bring'em back
Posted: 6/27/2008 2:05:09 PM | smuggler, you interpret the OP as
Barring the idea of "clubbing" and "cavemen" .... in a very light hearted view of the situation, the OP may be scratching the surface of a much bigger problem that seems to have been generated.
Women talk about wanting that nice, considerate, gentlemanly type of guy.... Yet they are drawn to that flash in the pan bad boy type. Contridiction in realities??? There is something to be said about the Aggressive, out of control, masculine man, that seems to draw women in. Hence the saying, "Nice guys finish last"......
.....But in a world where boys are raised by women, and end up having no idea of what it is to be a man... The OP may be on to something, more than some would like to admit...."
A few thoughts- to me 'the bad boy' is not an aggressive, controlling man - it is a man who is confident and in control of himself, but still is aware of their attraction to females in a very powerful, but subtle way - not the puppy dog wanting constant attention.
Anyway, that's my idea of a bad boy. Any man or boy who really has aggressive and controlling tendencies is the least attractive.....just like women who are aggressive and controlling are the least attractive.
I agree all genders are struggling with balancing how male and how female each is - with most extremes from either sex a problem.....for it almost seems like both genders have to be confident and in control, along with being true ladies and gentleman also.....or that's how it appears to me.
Strongly secure and lovingly compassionate also....that's my ideal man anyway.... if cavemen were like that, then, yes please.... | |
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| Cave man days, bring'em back
Posted: 6/27/2008 3:06:21 PM |
Maybe I read it wrong but I didn't think the op was saying women should be controlled. Rather, I thought he was saying men should be men. And of course that means different things to different people. Having been with an abusive controlling man I would never go there again. But isn't there a happy medium? People have always said I'm so strong. Guess what? I didn't always want to be strong! I didn't always want to make all the decisions, fix whatever was wrong. My experience has been that most men, and this is only my experience I'm talking about, have been seriously lacking in the ability to share in responsibilities. Lacking self control, confidence. Maybe because I appear so strong I attract these sort of men?
I'll continue to fantasize about cavemen, cowboys. They just took care of whatever needed taking care of. Lot like us women.
I agree five marie. But there are also women who can't mage logical decisions and need men in the same way. Both parties should be strong. No man or woman wants to have all the pressure of doing all the work. A strong man with a strong woman can do a lot.
Anyways OP I think your stereotype comes from men being the hunters. But from a lot of what i have read women were also hunters in early society and hunted alongside men. Only later did specialization occur. So that is men and women willl always be partners as they should be. No woman wants to be controlled and no man wants to make all the decesion, | |
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| Cave man days, bring'em back
Posted: 6/27/2008 4:03:45 PM | Women wanted equality and sensitive men...then they got it.
Now they want cave men who ride motorcycles, talk in grunts and can fix things...
Then they'll get that and want something else entirely...
....so what is REALLY the lesson here??? | |
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| Cave man days, bring'em back
Posted: 6/27/2008 4:06:15 PM | confidance? Hell yeah... that's hot.
Aggression? Not so much.
Very few women will remain satisfied with a doormat for very long, but I don't think many of us are ready for knuckle-dragging troglodytes, either.  | |
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| Cave man days, bring'em back
Posted: 6/27/2008 4:17:03 PM | I must have missed the post saying we wanted a man who rides motorcycles, talks in grunts and can fix things.
Lesson? Actually read the responses instead of putting your biased words in our mouths. | |
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| Cave man days, bring'em back
Posted: 6/27/2008 4:19:55 PM | | I won't try to speak for all women but what I want is someone who can keep up with me. I don't want someone I can walk all over. I don't want someone who can't hold their own in a debate with me. I want someone who is my equal, not my subordinate or my boss. There are a lot of those men out there. I don't find them to be the type who whine about why women don't respond to their emails or complain about how evil women are. | |
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| Cave man days, bring'em back
Posted: 6/27/2008 7:41:03 PM | | I want to find me a caveman and dress him up in a suit! LOL. Seriously, I don't want to be clubbed over the head and I really don't need to be controlled...but I do like manly men and manly men are kinda bossy. So long as it never degenerates into stupidity or violence then I'm Ok with a bit of that....Doesn't mean it will work on me, but I love a man that has the balls to try. Maybe alpha-male is a better term. | |
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| Cave man days, bring'em back
Posted: 6/28/2008 8:26:34 AM | Although some have given responses, some of you still don't understand what I wrote in this thread. I didn't say women want to be controlled, I sais they wanted to controlled in a limited way. If your're with a significant other or on a date, whoever make sthe dicision as to what's going to happen at that time and place is the controller, not the controller for all time and every time but just for that time. I am saying that there are many many many women who would love to give up that kind of controll to the man they are with most of the time.
I'm not say a man should rule over her friends, the clothes she wears or the food she eats etc. Ladies if you want to understand what I'm saying and not what you think I'm saying or mean, learn to read everything that is written. YES, women do liked to be controlled in many ways, mostly good ways, and with the right man the boundries can be pushed. Many of you will read this and deny you like being controlled in any way, form or fashion and you'll do so because you don't want anybody to know but whenyou're with your man I am positive you'll give up controll over lots of issues/thing/situations, again not in a bad or demeaning way.
Because I know there a many women out there who like giving up controll to their man, I'm saying there aren't many men out willing to take that controll, most do what is considered to be the "right" thing. I can hardly wait to the responses to this. It is possible to be controlled and repected at the same time!! | |
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| Cave man days, bring'em back
Posted: 6/28/2008 8:31:14 AM |
I didn't say women want to be controlled, I said they wanted to controlled in a limited way
I believe we all do it's human nature...some just can't admit to it! | |
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