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| How to Date With A Disability
Posted: 9/8/2008 7:11:09 PM | you and the guy who dated "ileen" should get together and screw each others self esteem up. Can I get a vote on that??? | |
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| How to Date With A Disability
Posted: 9/8/2008 8:46:58 PM |
"So how can those of us who are not considered disabled make dating easier for those we consider disabled? And yes, I am beginning to rethink how I view disabilities."
I had to think about this thread for a while, watching how I have been dating over this last year, and also observing my son, who is just starting out dating as he navigates the social world.
I think that it is difficult for those of us who grew up before schools were integrated (disabled & non-disabled) to get over the "unusualness" factor of meeting, socializing and working with the disabled. But my kids have been integrated since day one, and the kids in classes with them don't seem to even "see" the disability. They see M___, and D___. (Their names.) I know they "know" in their heads about it, but it is more like height or weight as far as it being an issue. It is more of an issue with their parents.
Around age 8 or so, kids get more discriminating, and if a new kid with a disability enters the picture it seems harder for them to see the kid underneath the differences. Joyfully, younger kids seem to find ways to include even a severely disabled child, if the adults around them assist them without an attidude of pity, condesention, or avoidance.
As they hit the age that dating becomes an interest, there have been regular dances hosted by our PTA, and other dances hosted by a group called "Best Buddies" which pairs a non-disabled peer with a disabled one for monthly get-togethers. Often these develop into more than once a month as the kids get to know and enjoy each other better.
I think the thing that makes the Best Buddies program work so well is that the non-disabled peers are so-called "high status" kids, socially. The popular kids. These kids learn first about socializing with a disabled kid, and they are really good at it--probably why they are popular to begin with.
The way disabled kids used to be "socialized" is to put them with low-status aides and adults who saw being with them as a job, and not with peers. (Aides need to get much more credit for the job they do.) So the disabled kids learned to act as if any freely-given social attention was a "gift" and this is called "needy" or "clingy" if you do it here.
The older disabled adults I have met have learned to be "ultra-polite" and super nice, and to never cross, or criticize a normal person, as if the "normalness" trumps anything they have. They have to act super-independent, as if they didn't need anybody, ever, and here that is sometimes seen as aloof. (Independence is still a good thing, however, acting as if you never, ever, need anything from anybody is a little unnatural.)
My kids tease and get teased and get sarcastic sometimes, and all the stuff normal kids do. ( Sometimes this startles the teachers each fall. But they aren't "behavior problems.") And whatever help they might need is done automatically by friends without smothering them. Their friends learned early that they will ask for help when they need it, but not when they don't. Just like anybody else.
I think that my kids are going to have it much easier than my generation did, because they have lots assistive technology, lots of friends on Facebook, (I do supervise it) and there are more sports and other after-school activities that work much better to socialize them than a social skills class does. Like my son lifts weights with the football team, and hangs out with them.
The social skills classes have the potential to be very helpful, but unfortunately, often the disabled are put into groups with kids with no disability who have "behavior problems." This just gives them more negative "skills" that don't help at all.
Group dating, and doing things in various size groups, seems to be working. And I have seen that the whole "hanging-out" thing is important. My son goes to the town center with friends after school and "hangs out" with them, in various size groups, sharing a pizza or getting ice cream, or going to games, plays or the library. He can get there and back on his own, and sometimes a friend gives a lift. This is usually with several others. I think the fact that some of the kids know him very well for many years helps the others, because new kids (girls) just watch how the older friends act and follow suit. No one has to ask how-to...anything.
Children are naturally curious, and in grade school, one son was constantly being asked the same questions over and over about his disability. So we had an hour each year when we let them ask away and my son or a nurse from the hospital patiently answered every single question. Then he could get on with the rest of the year without the constant repetition of the answers. Unfortunately, as adults, we are taught to not ask these questions, and so have to "Google" it. This is a little harder, since you don't get the specifics to the unique issues each person has. If we had the benefit of learning this stuff when we were in grade school, perhaps our dating lives would be a little smoother.
My sons both go to other schools occasionally and give talks about disability, which has given them some public speaking skills. They also have learned to be advocates in the political arena, and have met their legislators. I had a bumper sticker on my van for years that said; "The Disabled Vote." Every vote counts. This can be very empowering.
Competition helps. Being able to cheer someone with a disability as they cross the finish line, of whatever sport, is amazing. It gives you a way of supporting someone that is not humbling to them, and shows everyone they have abilities that can improve with effort and practice, and these can be celebrated.
"Helping" people with disabilities isn't just about what you can do for them, it seems, it is also about how we all get along at whatever levels we are at, in positive, life-affirming, fun, joyous, ways.
My kids are dating. And they have a wider circle of friends than I did in high school. They look out for each other.
Speaking of circle of friends, that is the name of a type of help that was developed for a severely disabled person whom I met after she wrote a book about it. Its called just that: "Circle of Friends" and it is a method developed for a person who was working in a college who needed support to keep her job during an illness. Her co-workers developed a system of helping her that worked for them so she could stay fully employed even with the severest of disabilities and no family to help.
If they weren't already married, over the years, I have met some very attractive, athletic, intelligent, financially stable, working, disabled men* who I would go out with in a minute. I admit it took me a while to stop seeing the disability myself, and I am used to it. But after a while, it really happens. I came to a day when I said "hi" and it never crossed my mind after that. I wish it had happened sooner for me, because I might have been a better mother to my sons, and a better person to those I met when I was younger. Also, these men have character, ambition, drive and charm. Qualities I admire more than ever after having started dating again.
*I almost didn't put "disabled" in there. I had to add this later. LOL. I have to say, they really aren't disabled if they have good jobs, cute spouses (some gorgeous), children and everything else most people say they want in life.
I am thinking of the thousands of people coming home from the war with disabilities. These are people who will come home to families that are new to disability, and the possiblities of what can be accomplished. Some of them will be single (or newly single.) I see them skiing, sailing, golfing, hunting, fishing, dancing, running with prostheses, learning new jobs and starting businesses. I expect there will be a whole new appreciation for the meaning of disability when these athletic, courageous, determined people find their place among us. | |
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| How to Date With A Disability
Posted: 9/8/2008 8:53:54 PM | As a person who has Cerebral Palsy I am so offended by some of these posts. When did it become "acceptable" to make fun of someone who is challenged in life? It's NOT ok to joke about a disablity. To the "woman" who got ticked off because she went on walk with the disabled. Get over yourself! You have bigger issues than he ever will. No one is perfect. Next time you think its so cute to make little cracks about someone think about if someone did that to your child, parent or friend.
I tell men that I have CP. I also tell them my limitations. Thats just my personal choice. | |
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| How to Date With A Disability
Posted: 9/9/2008 10:14:22 PM | I just re-read my last post here, and I realize it is long. I never really get to the point sometimes.
I am just a mom, and I only know my own experiences. In my opinion, here is what might help, put in a more straightforward way:
There are still roadblocks for the disabled. Our high school just added an elevator, but there are still some attitudes that need adjusting among the staff towards integration, inclusion, mainstreaming and the way help is planned and offered. Get to know the issues that affect the disabled and then Vote. Encourage any adult disabled person to Vote. Help them get to the Voting place if they need it.
Learn to be advocates in the political arena, and meet your legislators. Every vote counts. This is very empowering.
Don't be timid about learning about a disability. Learning about it takes away a lot of the stigma, and myths. The knowledge might come in handy some day if you or a loved one are faced with disability at some point.
Don't treat disabled people as if they are all extremely fragile. Some are more athletic than you are--believe me! My son can easily go up and down an escalator in his wheelchair. Lately, the Mall security always tries to stop him. I understand the liability issues, but, come on, kids do worse stuff than that all the time, and there is nothing like seeing a teen in a wheelchair doing something that people didn't know was possible....its a great feeling for everyone.
Treat the disabled you meet without an attidude of pity, condesention, or avoidance in front of your children. Never assume they cannot or should not date or marry or have children. You never know what is possible, and certainly don't convey the "sexless" attitude about the disabled to disabled children. Many disabilities are not inherited. So children are a possibility, and so is adoption.
Encourage the disabled people you know to go out with you in groups and invite them to activities. Don't worry how they will manage--the disabled person often knows how to enjoy an activity and will decide if they can do it or want to do it themselves, and they will let you know. The worst they can say is no. My son has done some things I have never done, like kayaking, rock climbing, and deer hunting. All from a wheelchair.
Don't imply, feel, or act as if any freely-given social attention is a "gift." A person who is acting that way is called "needy" or "clingy" if you do it here on PoF, and is not True, anyway.
Don't expect a disabled person to be "ultra-polite" and super nice, and to never cross, or criticize a normal person, as if "normalness" trumps anything they have.
Don't expect them to have to act super-independent, as if they didn't need anybody, ever. (The "I don't want to be a burden" syndrome.)
Someone acting that way here on PoF is seen as aloof (or a martyr.)
Find out whatever help they might need ahead of time before going somewhere together, and do it without smothering them. They will ask for help when they need it, but not when they don't. Just like anybody else.
Encourage independence with those that have less independence because of having had too little support in the past. (Some never get out and do things.) Get the support they need to get out and do a variety of things.
Tease and get teased and get sarcastic sometimes, and do all the stuff normal people do.
Use lots of assistive technology, get on Facebook. Do sports. Lift weights at the gym.
Do things in various size groups. Hang out. Give a friend a lift. Go with someone who knows the person very well for many years. New people can just watch how the older friends act and follow suit. So then no one has to ask how-to...anything.
Competition! Everyone has abilities that can improve with effort and practice, and these can be celebrated. Attend a competition. Bring friends. Currently, Basketball and Murderball are very, very competitive and extremely interesting to watch. You would not believe it if I told you some of the stuff....you have to see it. (OK, just one thing--lately, the college guys are doing handstands with their wheelchairs still strapped on.)
Widen your circle of friends. Friends look out for each other.
For a severely disabled person, learn how to form a "Circle of Friends" in the workplace.
Notice and talk about the attractive qualities of the disabled people you know: some of the people I know are athletic, intelligent, financially stable, are working, have character, ambition, and drive, are courageous, determined, and charming.
Find the disabled who have found success in various areas, and if you are a writer, write about them. If you are a photographer, take photos at a competition. If you are an employer, hire them, ect..... Don't portray them as "heros" as much as just everyday people who are achieving everyday accomplishments. Just like anyone else. They are making the best of what has come their way. Just like we all try to do.
If they don't already exist in your area, research and help to form a group that gets the disabled better access to doing all the sports that are now open to the disabled: skiing, sailing, golfing, hunting, camping, fishing, archery, dancing, kayaking, rock climbing, horseback riding, running with prostheses, learning new jobs and starting businesses. You would be surprised how quickly these activities catch on, and get funded.
The more you do interesting things, the more interesting people you will meet. This goes for both disabled and non-disabled. | |
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| How to Date With A Disability
Posted: 9/11/2008 8:04:27 PM | | no kerry i was referring to the rude guy who said "once i dated a girl named Ileen... she had one leg shorter than the other" jer off and the other person who was laughing at her walking date... the two of them should hook up and they can laugh at everyone who arent as perfect as they are. Then when they run out of friends and people to laugh at they can do it to each other.... poetic justice, wishfull thinking thats all. why would you think I was referring to you?? | |
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| How to Date With A Disability
Posted: 9/11/2008 8:51:24 PM | Kerry while I am very sorry that you have to deal with cerebral palsy you also have to try to look at things from other peoples point of view. Some of us simply can't handle being in a relationship with someone who has a disability. Life ,dating and relationships are hard enough without adding in a disability.
While you may be a sweet , kind , loving individual on the inside your disability still limits you. I want someone I can share all of my life with, not just little parts of it here and there. | |
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| How to Date With A Disability
Posted: 9/11/2008 9:20:49 PM | Good grief, tuckerjo, I hope to h*ll you don't wake up some morning and discover you're (more) disabled. I've been deaf since 1982 due to a riding (horse) accident and can't begin to imagine how I'd feel if I was blind or limped because I've faced some of life's worst experienced just because I can't HEAR!
As far as I am concerned, anyone who is disabled who continues to challange and enjoy life is far and above a better person than your so-called 'normal' person. At least we KNOW our disabilities..............everyone else doesn't.
I'd give my eye teeth to find a Mr Right(ly Disabled) because he would be far kinder, far more understanding, far more honest than ANY of the men I've met online so far, except one.
LIB | |
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| How to Date With A Disability
Posted: 9/11/2008 9:36:49 PM | | How do you know you can only share little bits of your life with someone with a disability? I have been in several serious and long-term relationships, and we shared ALL parts of our lives with one another. I found people who were open-minded (didn't just SAY they were), took time to know me and become educated about my "disability" and not make assumptions before even spending time with me. People with "disabilities" are not aliens from other planets; they are simply humans (no better, no worse than anyone else) who happen to do some things slightly differently from most people. I will say for as long as I live that my biggest problem is not my physical condition but the narrow-minded attitudes of others. At first when I put my profile on here, I did not disclose my disability for this very reason. Then I met someone and we seemed to develop a strong connection, in all ways. He kept asking when we could meet, so I had to "break the news". When I did, his attitude immediately changed, and I was no longer a person to whom he was very attracted, but a "situation" that he did not think he could handle. He said I should have included the info in the profile, and maybe he is right; but I knew from experience what would happen. So I tried an experiment. Before including my disability in my profile, I got about three emails a week from different people. After I took it out, I got no emails, and when I would IM someone, they would either answer very rudely and sign off, or just not answer at all. See my point???? | |
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| How to Date With A Disability
Posted: 9/11/2008 10:06:08 PM | First of all ldynblk you seriously need to calm down. I was not harsh or cruel in what I said. I said what was true to me in the kindest way possible. I know myself and I know that a disability is not something I can live with on a regular day to day basis.
How do you know you can only share little bits of your life with someone with a disability?
Again because I know myself and how I live my life. I am a very active person. I hike , bike , camp , run and play sports on a regular basis. On weekends and days off you will find me out deep woods camping. I hike on my favorite hiking trails pretty much every day , run daily and bike frequently. I don't see how I could possibly date someone who has physical limitations. We would never see each other as I am going places all the time where if one has physical limitations they can't follow you. Honestly how do you have a relationships when you never see each other.
People with "disabilities" are not aliens from other planets; they are simply humans (no better, no worse than anyone else) who happen to do some things slightly differently from most people.
I never said or even implied that they were "aliens from another planet" . I also never said or implied that they are less deserving or less of a human being.And I most certainly never said or implied, nor do I think, that they are not deserving of love and happiness.
I will say for as long as I live that my biggest problem is not my physical condition but the narrow-minded attitudes of others. At first when I put my profile on here, I did not disclose my disability for this very reason. Then I met someone and we seemed to develop a strong connection, in all ways. He kept asking when we could meet, so I had to "break the news". When I did, his attitude immediately changed, and I was no longer a person to whom he was very attracted, but a "situation" that he did not think he could handle.
Maybe you should try to look at your situation from somebody else's point of view. Do you really want someone trying to be with you who already knows full well upfront that they cannot handle the limitations you have? Knowing what you can and can't handle is not being narrow minded , it's being aware of who you are and what you can handle in life.
He said I should have included the info in the profile, and maybe he is right; but I knew from experience what would happen. So I tried an experiment. Before including my disability in my profile, I got about three emails a week from different people. After I took it out, I got no emails, and when I would IM someone, they would either answer very rudely and sign off, or just not answer at all. See my point????
You should include your disability in your profile. Why hide it? People know what they can and can't handle , so why not give people a chance upfront to know what they will have to deal with. You are trying to make a justification for lying to people and it's not working, so your point is also not working. People should know upfront what they are getting into when they are dealing with a new dating partner. It's only fair. No one likes to have surprises sprung on them.
I will say it again that everyone deserves love ,and that for everyone ,I do believe there is people who will be compatible with them. Being deceptive about situations in your life , no matter what the situation is , be it kids , deeply in debt, separated, a former addiction problem or a disability , will not endear you to people. You don't want to attract and lead people on who can't deal with what you have to go through every day. No one is saying you are less then a human or unworthy, but we must be honest with people about who and what we are and our situations in life. | |
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| How to Date With A Disability
Posted: 9/11/2008 11:38:28 PM | Tuckerjo, Let me enlighten you. People with disabilities DO ride bikes, hike, go camping and play many sports. I am one of them. Just google "disabled sports" or "sports for disabled" and you will find TONS of web sites. I dare you to keep up with some of us.
And, just remember Disability is the only minority group that you don't have to be born into...you can become a member at any time in your life. | |
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| How to Date With A Disability
Posted: 9/12/2008 12:15:30 AM | I think that it would really depend on the disability. If it were something like deafness, blindness or a physical disability where someone is still mobile, meaning able to walk , but with a cane or walker, then yes I think I could deal with that. I would at least be willing to date and get to know the person to see if I could deal with their situation. If we are however talking about a quadriplegic or a paraplegic or something like that , then no that is not something I can deal with. This person can never move out of their chair and for some of them just going for a bowel movement requires someone to evacuate their bowels for them.
Marrying a person with such a disability would just not be something I would ever be interested in as sex would either be impossible or only one position would be able to be done for the rest of your lives. Quadriplegics or paraplegics are sometimes not even able to have sexual intercourse. Some can maintain an erection and even ejaculate , but don't feel it. Some will retain all feelings in their genital area , but again we go back to one position of women on top and never deviating from that.
Now I am not saying that sex is the most important thing in a marriage, but it is important and when you are faced with such huge problems even dating someone with such enormous physical limitations would just be too much. | |
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| How to Date With A Disability
Posted: 9/12/2008 6:39:50 AM |
I know myself and I know that a disability is not something I can live with on a regular day to day basis.
Well then, sweet pea...you better get down on your knees and pray to whatever God you worship, that YOU DO NOT ONE DAY FIND YOURSELF DISABLED. :O)
Imma gonna say this one more time...People with disabilities tend to be the most ambitious, most goal oriented, most persevering sorts. Some have grown up being told "You Can't" so much, that it is in their blood to show everyone that "CAN'T" does not exist.
If you have not already seen it...I suggest you rent the movie 'Murderball.' Your entire opinions and views on "disabled persons being limited in their functions" will be blown to hell! :O) | |
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| How to Date With A Disability
Posted: 9/13/2008 7:20:10 PM |
"I will say it again that everyone deserves love ,and that for everyone ,I do believe there is people who will be compatible with them. Being deceptive about situations in your life , no matter what the situation is , be it kids , deeply in debt, separated, a former addiction problem or a disability , will not endear you to people. You don't want to attract and lead people on who can't deal with what you have to go through every day. No one is saying you are less then a human or unworthy, but we must be honest with people about who and what we are and our situations in life."
I think the problem here is that people don't want to be pre-judged on things that might be considered deal-breakers to others.
A good profile is confident and positive. Putting things that PoF doesn't list as necessary information says you think it is important. PoF has a place for "separated" and "kids." But no one will generally put "deeply in debt, a former addiction problem or a disability" in their profile as part of a first impression, unless they want to for a reason.
You can mention these things after a basic level of interest is established, perhaps after a few e-mails. Certainly, some things might need to be mentioned before meeting, particularly if it is with regard to appearance, since the person needs to recognize you. But who in their right mind is going to advertise on the internet their financial situation if it is particularly difficult? Or that they are in AA? Or post pictures of their young children for all to see (if they don't want to.) Anybody can go on this site and read the profiles. This is the part called "getting to know you." Its the same if you meet in a public place. Nobody puts information on their t-shirt to keep people they meet from "being too surprised." (Well, usually. I've seen some pretty out-there t-shirts.)
This is still an "honest" approach. If you put too much in your profile, you are saying, "weed yourself out, please, I am not worth getting to know other than by these differences that you might be put off by." People will take their cue from how the profile is worded as to how to approach someone who is different. If someone goes about it as if being disabled is the worst thing in the world to have happened, then people will be put off by that attitude alone. And someone might think; if the disabled person can't emotionally handle their own disability, then how is the person who dates them going to learn to handle it?
Being positive, confident, active, interesting, independent, and having a disability are not contradictions. Nor is it "deceptive." | |
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| How to Date With A Disability
Posted: 9/13/2008 9:11:50 PM | I applaud anyone who is mature enough and honest enough to say when they can't handle a situation that you have going on in your life. There is nothing worse then dating someone who after a month of dating finally cracks and tells you that they just can't deal with your particular issues. Having a disability myself I would much rather someone say right up front that "sorry but this is way to much for me to deal with" then down the road after you have gotten to know them, develop feelings for them and gotten you hopes up that they drop on you how they have really felt right from the beginning.
I am also dating someone now who has epilepsy and for me this is no big deal. I do get it and understand that for some they would not have the necessary tools to deal with this. Even for me there are some disabilities that I know I could never deal with in another person. I have had quadriplegic and paraplegic men message me on here before and I had to be honest about how I felt right up front. Since I know how it feels to be "pity dated" then I can appreciate how for someone else with a disability ,or for someone with any major issues in their life, that they would rather someone tell them straight up that they are not capable of dealing with their issues.
Lets not discourage honesty here , because I can assure you that it is not appreciated at all. I don't appreciate being lied to and I would believe that others don't appreciate it as well. If you can't handle my situation then please by all means tell me right up front. | |
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