| Who Pays????
Posted: 7/1/2008 1:29:29 AM | | It should have been discussed before the trip, not after. If someone wanted to whisk me away, I wouldn't just assume that they were going to pay. I don't think that he should just drop the bill on you either. There was definitely a lack of communication here. If you couldn't afford the vacation then you should have stayed home or told him about your situation. | |
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| Who Pays????
Posted: 7/1/2008 10:22:12 AM | | This is where communication is crucial. If asked to go on a trip by a man you ask him what the costs associated with it will be because you need to see if it fits in your budget. If he says he will cover the hotel and major costs...great. If not, you decide if you can afford it and decline if you can't. I can understand why the woman thought they had already worked it out, but a trip is a big deal and you need to treat each big expense as if you may need to pay your way and discuss it. I would be glad to pay for part of a trip if it was in my means. If not and if my partner wanted to take me, I'd accept but would find ways of doing nice things for him as a show of my gratitude. Unless you are in a committed and defined relationship you just can't make assumptions about money. It is outdated and disrespectful of the other person. | |
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| Who Pays????
Posted: 7/1/2008 10:37:58 AM | I can understand your dilema, but YES, you should pay for your half.
Unless he specifically stated that he was footing the bill, you should pay for the vacation that YOU took.
It's obvious that you were hoping he was going to pick up the tab since your financial obligations wouldn't allow you to pay. I hate to say this, but come on... you should have discussed this BEFORE the trip and not after.
You assumed he was paying, he assumed you were paying... I think both of you made the assumption that you wanted to make, but neither of you put it in words.
Without it being said, I think it's your responsibility to pay your bill.
Sorry, it's only fair.
"If you want to catch a catch, then BE a catch!" | |
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| Who Pays????
Posted: 7/1/2008 12:14:19 PM | If you're just going out into town, the guy should pay the majority of the bill, the girl throws in a few bucks. Although I do believe the first date should be covered by the guy. Now the first date doesn't have to be a dinner or anything fancy. It can simply be pool and bowling, maybe some tea or ice cream at the beach.
..But if you're going on a big vacation, you split if 50/50, there shouldn't even be a conversation about it. Last year my ex and I went to Australia for two months, I had enough air miles saved up that we just had to pay the ticket taxes. She paid for hers, I paid for mine. I would expect her to at least pay for the taxes, I did after all save her a few hundred bucks. I did purchase insurance for her out of my own pocket. While there we split most of the food bills, but any "touristy" things that we did, we paid our own shares. | |
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| Who Pays????
Posted: 7/1/2008 12:24:10 PM | Three words, dump the guy.  | |
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| Who Pays????
Posted: 7/3/2008 11:28:09 AM | | well kamaboko you are exactly the kind of man that we are shocked and saddened by and the type that is to be avoided Men Pay PERIOD get over it............ | |
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| Who Pays????
Posted: 7/4/2008 7:28:00 AM | well kamaboko you are exactly the kind of man that we are shocked and saddened by and the type that is to be avoided Men Pay PERIOD get over it...........
Men don't pay. A vacation should always be proportional to income or amount of dispsable income. She has more money she pays more. He has more money he pays more.
What type of woman puts they want to be spoiled in their profile? I feel sad for the dude that ends up with you.
Men pay PERIOD- Guess it must sadden you that a woman I dated paid for my part of the vacation expenses in full (she made 40x what I did). Guess this must probably piss off all the gold diggers here.
The one doing the whisking should be doing the paying.
Like you said, whoever does the invite, does the paying, nough said..
Sure that would be fair but it would always be the man doing the whisking or inviting. So no that system wouldn't work.
The man - pays for all dates ad infintium, not expecting quid pro quo, not discussing the tab, not complaining. A smart woman would reward him with pizza, hot wings, and good ale before Monday night football, then hand him the remote control.
Invitee - offers to pay only she wants to make it clear that they are just friends, nothing more. Not so much as a kiss.
Husbands - pays for all dates. A kind woman might reciprocate with candles, a little Sinatra and thick steaks on the grill.
IMO this man's parents should not have procreated unless they were going to ensure his social communications skills in civilization. He should never let the wonderful female in this situation even offer to pay. Would that female date this male if she met him today, knowing what she knows? I think her love for this man is clouding her good judgement. He is no longer that great catch she knew way back when. She should carefully disengage herself, buy a good dog who would make a better companion without so much drama, and enjoy a few tv dinners before moving on to a real man who knows how to treat a woman
Husband pays for all the dates? You usually share the money.
Treat a woman? You mean treat a gold digger. I think your parents shouldn't have procreated knowing you couldn't grow up and become a functioning adult. Great catch=he pays. Get a life gold digger. | |
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| Who Pays????
Posted: 7/4/2008 7:47:09 AM | | hell no, he surprised her with the meal, so he should pay, otherwise its not very romantic. | |
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| Who Pays????
Posted: 7/4/2008 8:07:51 AM | f he invited you on a trip, he should pay. He should especially pay if he is trying to have a relationship which is more than just a friendship. Friends go dutch but when people are dating the man pays! That is why society gives them an edge in life. They make more money for less education than women and get favored in society. Asking you to pay is probably why he is still single. He is cheap and a jerk.
No because will you ever invite him. Most of the college population is females. There is no pay gap at all. Women work less hours, take time off for having children, ask for less promotions and are more likely to switch jobs so they make less. Those are choices so you make less as a result. Men are better workers so don't blame men. Female engineers make more than their counterparts as do teachers and nurses.
Edge in society has nothing to do with a relationship besides the fact it doesn't exist. Talk about our edge in society when we have our genital mutilated right after we are born and have to sign up for the draft. And relationships are not equalizers for what society does.
Didn't your traditional parents teach you that etiquette dictates you can't take any expensive gifts from a MAN WHO YOU ARE NOT ENGAGED TO? Any actual traditional/ old fashioned woman would call you a gold digger too.
hell no, he surprised her with the meal, so he should pay, otherwise its not very romantic.
Paying=romantic? | |
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| Who Pays????
Posted: 7/4/2008 8:08:55 AM | | Im taking my girlfriend out for a weekend of gambling, etc, and am paying for it. She will pay for her own gambling, but im happy to come up with the other costs (why would i invite them otherwise?). Im amazed this thread has gone on this long, if you invite someone somewhere you pay for the obvious expenses. Its hard to imagine it otherwise no matter how many ways you can try and skew this situation... | |
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| Who Pays????
Posted: 7/4/2008 8:17:15 AM | Im taking my girlfriend out for a weekend of gambling, etc, and am paying for it. She will pay for her own gambling, but im happy to come up with the other costs (why would i invite them otherwise?). Im amazed this thread has gone on this long, if you invite someone somewhere you pay for the obvious expenses. Its hard to imagine it otherwise no matter how many ways you can try and skew this situation...
Except you know she will never invite you for a weekend out?
Funny how most of the women who think men should always pay are ones that are old, overweight and generally not so good looking. Yet most of the young, attractive, tall girls have no problem asking out men and paying the full costs.
Oh, most men never expect it, it is more like a really nice surprise.
Most MEN expect it. Only boys will cater to a girl like that. REAL MEN have pride, and know they are worth more.
I can't believe how many women claim that women have a need to be taken care of and its biology. Every psychologists and psychology book said it was a human need. Maybe even stronger in males. Every religion pretty much states males should be breastfeed longer and I think this is what naturally happens. Maybe women should be taking care of men no? | |
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| Who Pays????
Posted: 7/5/2008 1:15:35 PM | "I can't believe how many women claim that women have a need to be taken care of and its biology. Every psychologists and psychology book said it was a human need. Maybe even stronger in males. Every religion pretty much states males should be breastfeed longer and I think this is what naturally happens. Maybe women should be taking care of men no?"
Everyone wants to be taken care of, men and women. It is how we get those needs met that matters. We cannot assume people can mind read and understand our needs. Everyone has different experiences and expectations.
The problem for the OP was the way the trip was handled. She told the guy she was broke and it seems he persuaded her to go on the trip anyway. She assumed that since he knew she was broke, he was paying. The guy is still pretty crass in my opinion. I would not ask anyone on a vacation who was broke and then say, "pay up."
I have spent plenty of money and time on my past boyfriends. We never kept a tally of who was doing what, but I never got serious about cheap, petty, or bitter men either. The guy the OP described sounds cheap and petty to me. If I was the OP, I would have paid and said, "don't let the door hit you as you go." | |
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| Who Pays????
Posted: 7/5/2008 2:06:46 PM | | why does all this have to be so damn complicated???....i mean .....why didnt you tell your "friend"...yeah..."would love to go but, here's what i can do and heres what i cant"..it just comes down to something very simple but so hard for many to do.........talk......now ....theres resentment...and confusion....anyway...good luck dealing with this one...lol | |
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| Who Pays????
Posted: 7/5/2008 2:14:01 PM | I think who pays should have been discussed prior to the trip so there were no misunderstandings about what each expected.
When presented with a surprise bill, I'd be on the phone or at his place to have that discussion now. He wasn't clear about expecting you to pay and you weren't clear about being unable to. You were both uncommunicative.
Ultimately, being who I am, I would most likely pay my share (in installments if necessary), as I would feel responsible for my role in the misunderstanding by not being clear about my financial situation. I would also make dayum sure there were no such misunderstandings in the future. | |
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| Who Pays????
Posted: 7/5/2008 2:24:33 PM | If you had dated him several months prior, it is surprising that you didn't know each other well enough to avoid this nasty conclusion to your trip.
I think he was rude in submitting you a bill after the fact. If it was his intent, he should have given you the costs before hand.
I have adult sons, and I know without question that if they take a lady out they expect to pay the expenses of doing so. They have pride in being men and treating a woman as their free choice. I respect that and applaud their old fashioned values.
OP, this guy is a little boy. Go find a real man. | |
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| Who Pays????
Posted: 7/5/2008 2:30:29 PM |
I'd probably have a stroke. The $500 for 'tourist activities' would have been way over my budget to start with. Add another $700 and I'd really be in trouble. Being hit with a bill for that amount, when someone says they want to 'whisk me away', would cause me to question either my hearing or his sanity. The one doing the whisking should be doing the paying.
I agree that the terminology 'whisk away' tends to suggest he is paying but I don't agree that the one suggesting an outing is always supposed to pay. It depends on the wording. For example if he said: "Lets go on a holiday together!", or "Do you want to go on a cruise together next summer?" I would expect to pay my half. If he said: "Let me take you on a holiday!", or "Would you like to go on a free all expense paid cruise with me next summer?" Then I would assume he was paying. Even then I would probably confirm my assumptions before the trip to make sure. After all, paying for an entire trip is quite a bit more expensive then just taking someone out for dinner and a movie. To be safe I would always assume that I would be paying my own way unless I specifically asked. | |
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| Who Pays????
Posted: 7/5/2008 2:47:06 PM |
OP, this guy is a little boy. Go find a real man.
I think your sons are the ones acting little boys. Tell them to act like adults. How sad they need to bribe women with food.
shield do you really believe that? You know a woman would NEVER invite a man out on as many vacations as he would or even one. That rule wouldn't work. | |
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| Who Pays????
Posted: 7/5/2008 2:54:30 PM |
I think your sons are the little boys. Tell them to act like adults. How sad they need to bribe women with food. Not everyone is whipped.
They are adults and as such I don't tell them anything unless they ask. One is very happily married for 3 years to an extremely devoted and loving wife. If he is whipped, we should all be so lucky. | |
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| Who Pays????
Posted: 7/5/2008 3:03:02 PM | The rule has not changed for at least 400 years. (See The Book of the Courtier.) Who invites, pays. Period. The fellow in this hypothetical is a dishonest little beyotch, and obviously so. At the top of the narrative, OPie makes clear they both know and practice the standard rule.
Did I mention what the standard rule is? Who invites, pays. Period.
So, he knew the rule, acknowledged the rule, practiced the rule, and then invited her to go Dutch on a vacation and didn't mention the Dutch part! He has no excuse whatsoever. He tricked her; he cheated her; he flat out lied to her by inviting her someplace where he was determined not to be her host.
You know who the host is, don't you? The host is the one who invites. You know who the guest is, don't you? The guest is the one who accepts the invitation. Did I mention what the difference is? Who invites, pays! Exclamation point.
I tried to think of something just as classless and evil, the same story problem without the distraction of the expense, since fora fishies are so fond of comparatives. Suppose I invite you to my house for dinner. You show up, and I lead you to the kitchen where shrink-wrapped steaks are waiting. I leave you there to fry them up, and I go turn on the game. My excuse might be that I bought you those tacos last week, and so it's your turn to feed me. Or that I paid for the steaks, and you should contribute, too, because, what am I? Your slave? Or that I don't cook, and you're a woman.
Or, maybe, just that there's a game on.
The bottom line, however, is that I deceived you. I could have invited you over to cook for me. You might have accepted, and we could be fed and naked by 9:00. (If the game is over.) But I didn't, and you know why I didn't. I wanted you (or someone) to cook for me (because the game would be on), but I couldn't be sure you would agree. So I got you to my place first, figuring I could guilt you into it, that you wouldn't be strong enough to kick me in the nuts and leave.
Hypothetical Man, I guarandamntee you, was not certain OPie - I mean Hypo Woman - would come with if she knew what it would cost her. So he drew her in with his deceit and sprang his real meaning when it was too late. I'm glad this guy isn't real, because he's the very worst sort of person, the kind who will lie about anything, to anyone, to get what he wants, and then pretend he didn't.
OPie, if you ever really meet someone like this, kick him in the nuts just as hard as you can, and then never see him again. It's not polite, I know, but sometimes you have to bend the rules. Just ask Hypo Boy!
Cheers!
Vulf  | |
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| Who Pays????
Posted: 7/6/2008 5:13:53 PM | John.duke12 stated,
"You know a woman would NEVER invite a man out on as many vacations as he would or even one. That rule wouldn't work."
I don't know what type of women you have dated, but I have paid for vacations, meals, and whatnot for my men. I sent an ex-boyfriend on a $3,000 golf weekend with his buddies for one of his birthdays. I HATE golf, but he loved it so I booked and arrainged everything for him. I took another boyfriend snorkeling in Florida, when I had the urge to go. I paid for that vacation even though my boyfriend at the time wanted to pay for it. There is quite of long list, but I did not keep track of everything.
So john.duke12 maybe you have been with women who are scorekeepers like you. | |
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| Who Pays????
Posted: 7/6/2008 5:44:20 PM | | Thank you, Toomuch! I was just about to go off on this john.duke "man" (so he claims but seems to be a golddigger just as much as the women he's trying to call out) myself. What century is this dude living in ("there is no pay gap"...ok, be a woman with a degree and work in a company where men DO make more money, douchrag. Just because you say it isn't so doesn't make it true), and what kind of women is he meeting?? Ok, maybe I went off a little, I apologize! But it's not always about MONEY or CASH. When you take someone out, it's like giving them a gift. Saying that you care about them and want to spend time with them and would be offended if they tried to take that away from you. It can go both ways (yes, women can and do take men out and if that hasn't happened for you, john.duke, perhaps your attitude has a LOT to do with it), but if you make it about money, you're missing out on a lot of great things in life. It's just money! Giving is very rewarding, and I don't want to spend my night with someone special stressing about who's paying for what. Goodness. If I invite someone to my house for dinner, do I give them a bill afterwards for the groceries and time spent cooking? Of course not. | |
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Posted: 7/6/2008 5:45:20 PM | I just found it funny that POF wouldn't let me spell out the word douch e.
Thank you, POF! You're absolutely right, I need to watch my mouth...uh...fingers. | |
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| Who Pays????
Posted: 7/6/2008 5:57:32 PM | | Well, this situation is different than the regular dating scenarios. It's a major expenditure. It would have to be talked about in advance with no assumptions to be made. Since nobody initiated the talks, then they both have to bear the consequenses. I think fair would be to go ahead and explain to him her misunderstanding, and try to work it out by paying her share. May take awhile, but he didn't ask about that, and neither did she. | |
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| Who Pays????
Posted: 7/6/2008 6:00:03 PM | | I would not be defending his character. If he offered to whisk you away and also knew that you have money problems he NEVER should have presented any bill to you. That is most unkind. | |
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| Who Pays????
Posted: 7/7/2008 6:38:21 PM | was it just me or was the OP referring to herself in the third person...sort of?
her 3 posts had her talking about this as if someone else was involved.
sort of like " hulk speak"
"me hulk, didn't ask him no questions about it as me hulk would prefer not to know. That way, me hulk can start a thread about this hypothetical man. "
"Now Hulk smash!"
communication and expecations. .. ah.. ain't it grand.
Then it all fell apart when she admitted that " the woman told him that she started a thread about it to get objective opinions!"
i mean.. holy moley. nice... airing dirty laundry on the internet...it's a bit low...
some people seem to purposefully do things or not do things just so that they can get some drama in their life.
All of this would have been avoided had :
he said the truth to her- he's somewhat of an a$$ to do this.***
she asked him point blank- " what will I be paying " at any point before and during the trip. I realize that she may have not done this in order to avoid any unpleasantness. But here we are..
It was her best interest to assume that she wasn't paying for any of the shared expense so she didn't ask.
*** I reserve the right to change my opinion at any time as it always happens that there is a tonne of other really important information that is not given. Info that casts a shadow on the OP's version. | |
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