|
|
|
|
|
| Fathers rights - looking for ideas.
Posted: 6/28/2008 9:39:31 AM | I do agree with the comment that he should go to court prepared with a parenting plan if he is interested in getting custody. The plan should include things like who will look after the child when he goes to work, how will he support the child, how will he keep the child's mother/grandparents involved in the child's life, etc. He should also be willing to take a parenting class. They are out there.
The person I was talking about in my earlier post got interim custody. He is in the process of completing a parenting class as this is one of the conditions to gain sole custody. Until then, he has interim custody and the mother has supervised visitation and the person supervising is his choice as the custodial parent. He also allows her grandparents to take the child every Sunday overnight to keep their bond with them. He also has told the mother of the child that once she gets her life in order, he is willing to look at joint custody once she is all better. That gives the mother hope. She is still the mother afterall but not in the state of mind to look after the child. His intent is not to hurt anyone, it is what's best for the child and to take responsibility for his own child.
So I would suggest putting all the above in the parenting plan.
Perhaps he is not interested in having custody and just wants to ensure the baby is not moved away? Then he needs to try to ask the court to give a court order stating the grandparents can't move. It happens with custodial parents all the time so I don't see why he can't get that in place. But it definitely needs to be done BEFORE they move. | |
|
| Fathers rights - looking for ideas.
Posted: 6/28/2008 10:12:58 AM | they'd have to have been living together exclusively for a period of a year or something like that before baby was born.
I would be challenging that immediately. This has absolutely nothing to do with his relationship with his ex. This has everything to do with his relationship with the child. If he for whatever reason was denied being listed as a parent by a crack head, that is irrelevant to the fact that he IS the father, he WANTS to be the father and he is CAPABLE of being the father.
If he's willing to fight, to take whatever programs the courts may suggest (parenting courses) and modify his lifestyle to that of a parent, he should do that. If he does not want to fight for his child like any quality parent would, then applaud him for being willing at least to be financially responsible and proving he has that responsibility, tell him to write a bunch of post dated cheques and kiss her goodbye.
When you fight for your rights as a parent, when you fight for the rights and the best for your children, you do not go wishy-washy. You put every ounce of effort you have, every resource you have and dedicate every moment you have to make sure their quality of life, quality of morals and knowledge that no matter what, you're always there for them is known not just to them but to anyone that matters.
You either are a good parent or you are one of the others. | |
|
| Fathers rights - looking for ideas.
Posted: 6/28/2008 10:19:12 AM | BUT, if that child has lived somewhere for the better part of her life,
But... she's only 2 years old!
You are right in saying that the system doesn't always work, but with the knowledge he has on the mother and her antics, he shouldn't have this much trouble. If he did go to mediation, and bent over for the controlling Grandparents, then he can submit an appeal and have the order changed.
The Grandparents sound like they are afraid of losing their grandchild, and are willing to make every move possible to keep her in their life. They sound desparate, and afraid. Fear can sometimes drive people to make decisons that in the end are not always the best decision.
For some reason, it seems they don't trust your brother (fear is likely making that decision). It's sad to hear of a father whose been limited to seeing his own child who he adores. He likely has a fight ahead of him, and he needs to prepare himself for a victory. Though the G-parents are coming across as controlling, he needs to understand that it's not control, it's desaparation and fear. Once he understands their motives, he will be able to confront the issue head on.
Leave the anger and resentment at the door. Knowledge and preparation is the way to go for your brother. I wish him the best, since it sounds like this little girl really needs him (and what daughter doesn't need her Daddy.......) | |
|
| Fathers rights - looking for ideas.
Posted: 6/28/2008 10:25:27 AM | The parenting plan is a good idea Mon Cherie, I'll make sure I mention it to him when he comes over to fix the door I tried to hang yesterday lol
He just emailed me, he's really excited. He said the lawyer he went to see yesterday is charging him a lower rate then she usually charges, as he was referred to her by a friend of hers.
I guess she told him that she thinks he should be able to get guardianship, access with split driving time as well as having his last name added onto hers (hyphenated). The guardianship/split driving access thing I'm unsure about, not sure if that means he'll get guardianship and will have to drive the baby to meet the grandparents halfways or what, I'll find out more later today. I'm excited for him, he sounds excited in his email.
He's not the type to write a bunch of postdated cheques and wash his hands of all this, he definitely wants her and is more then capable in raising her. When he first told me they were moving so far away, my god, he was SO angry, I've never seen him that upset before. Then a couple of days later, he emailed me an mls listing, they've listed their house, and then he didn't hear from them for a couple of days, so he drove out to Airdrie (he lives in Canyon Meadows) to make sure they didn't clean out their house and take off. That's his biggest fear, that they'll just take off, and they're the type of people to do that, they just want him out of their lives, which is total BS to me.
But at least now he's making some headway, no matter how small it might seem. Not sure what his next move will be, I suppose the lawyer will have to get things rolling and get them into court. I hope this starts happening soon before they move. They have no idea he's consulting a lawyer, I told him not to tell them, because that will just make them pack up and leave faster. | |
|
| Fathers rights - looking for ideas.
Posted: 6/28/2008 10:35:45 AM | Sounds like he's got it rolling in the right direction. That's good. I hope some of what we all posted helped.
Good luck to your brother NL. He sounds like a good man. | |
|
| Fathers rights - looking for ideas.
Posted: 6/28/2008 2:51:26 PM | I'd also suggest he find out, as a parent of the child who is taking steps to get everything in order and gearing toward being in the child's life in such a way, do the grandparents have the right to take his child so far away. Legally, is that not the same as kidnapping and/or child abduction? Especially if they try to do it in anything but a completely open way that keeps him in touch with the child. I'd suggest he ask the questions and then if it is, have his lawyer remind them or their legal council that they can be charged and possibly face prison time if they try it.
As well, have your parents (I hope they are still around) thought about the fact that if those grandparents can get such rights, then so can they? My mom had to go to court to get visitation rights legally enforceable by the police to see one of my brother's children when the ex stopped letting grandma see the child over personal issues.
Now, if your folks fought to get 1/3 time, your bro fought to get 1/3 time, that still leaves the other grandparents with 1/3 time and the child with a family that raised kids willing to fight and instill good values for 2/3 time. Better than some or even half, yes-no? | |
|
| Fathers rights - looking for ideas.
Posted: 6/28/2008 3:39:59 PM | If he is going to family court over any custody issues....a parenting course is now mandatory.
Easyguy...since he does not have legal custody or guardianship of the child....the grandparents would not have to tell him if they move...as long as any legal visitation schedules are not breached.
I just have to wonder why it took him two years to try to do anything about this? The courts might wonder the same thing. | |
|
| Fathers rights - looking for ideas.
Posted: 6/28/2008 4:17:28 PM | Jan, I was not aware of what Alberta law is. Thanks for that eye opener. Alberta has shown itself to be ahead in so many family related issues compared to the rest of the country that it does baffle me how they can be that far behind in others. Ontario law states the child cannot be moved away from the parent without mutual consent. Visitation rights have no bearing on proximity. Otherwise, what's to stop the guardian parent from moving to say... New Zeland.. or the complete other end of the province? Visitation rights then become much more difficult to be responsible toward, don't they? And so it is not in the best interest of the child if one parent who desires to be a parent to the child, even a part time one, to lose the ability to see that parent by placing the child in an area where visitation is obstructed.
I love my new province for so many things, but I really do question how far up the legal corn-hole someone's head was when some things are decided. Legal to split up a willing parent from the child. | |
|
| Fathers rights - looking for ideas.
Posted: 6/28/2008 6:56:52 PM | Easyguy...I honestly think that if this guy has stepped up to the plate from day one...insisted that his name be on the birth certificate and filed for custody the minute the grandparents tried to step in.....none of this would be an issue right now.
It is a lot harder to undo something than it is to make sure it is not done in the first place. | |
|
| Fathers rights - looking for ideas.
Posted: 6/28/2008 8:03:59 PM | Easyguy...since he does not have legal custody or guardianship of the child....the grandparents would not have to tell him if they move...as long as any legal visitation schedules are not breached.
Not true.
The biological parent has the right to decline an out of town move. The custodial parent cannot just pick up and move, they have to get approval from the biological parent. If the move takes place without consent, it's considered kidnapping.
That is part of the mediation process, and written in the order. Always. (nowadays, anyway)
But I am left wondering what the OP's brother signed off on? Maybe he wasn't clear on some subjects and just agreed with the g-parents?
Even if that is the case, he still has the power to change the order.
| |
|
| Fathers rights - looking for ideas.
Posted: 6/28/2008 11:47:36 PM | Zoo...that's not true at all....he has no legal right to stop them. He does not have any custody order in place and he does not have legal guardianship of the child. ( as per the OP's posts )
It is not kidnapping...THEY are the child's only legal guardians at this point in time...you have no power to change an order that does not exist.
IF he had done what he should have done from day one and established his parental rights from the start and gone through family court from the start and had guardianship or joint custody...or custody of any kind...then yes, he could petition the courts to prevent the move. The way it stands right now....he hasn't done anything to legally have any say in his daughter's life.
I also think you are giving too much credit to the 'mediation process'. A mediator cannot authorize any kind of 'order'. They are there to try to mediate the two parties to attempt to come to a resolution without going through the courts. If there parties cannot reach any agreements...there is no order and nothing is decided and the case must go on to family court. | |
|
| Fathers rights - looking for ideas.
Posted: 6/29/2008 12:37:41 AM | I also think you are giving too much credit to the 'mediation process'. A mediator cannot authorize any kind of 'order'. They are there to try to mediate the two parties to attempt to come to a resolution without going through the courts. If there parties cannot reach any agreements...there is no order and nothing is decided and the case must go on to family court.
YES!! You are absolutley right about that..
Which makes me wonder what happened during the mediation with the OP's brother and his daughter's family.
If the ball got dropped during mediation for whatever reason, he can appeal the court order (that he signed), and has the option of going through mediation again, or going straight to the courts.
It seems the mediation process didn't match the needs of the father, yet he had to have signed papers stating his agreement with what was said in mediation, and ultimately signed before a judge.
My point is, it's not too late. He can appeal that order.
But, there is a fight ahead of him.
| |
|
| Fathers rights - looking for ideas.
Posted: 6/29/2008 12:41:49 AM | Do not waste another minute of valuable time in mediation.
Guardianship, really has very little to do with it.
The fact of the matter is, ALL bioloigical parents have this, that is a given.
What does make the difference is, who has custody.
Changing custody is not simple, as I stated earlier....there will need to be alot of work put into it.
Foremost, it must be in the best interests of the child.
This must be proven.
The largest problem to face here is....you must prove to a court that it is in the best interest of the child to change custody, as opposed to the status quo.
As to some previous statement questioning my experience in these matters, I have spent literally countless days in this area, not just a matter of I've been there too.
I am posting here only to help with some insight, as requested by the O.P. , not to be in a little pissing match. | |
|
| Fathers rights - looking for ideas.
Posted: 6/29/2008 8:24:34 AM | Actually horzshooz...no one questioned YOUR experience in these matters....YOU commented on all of us posting without having any experience in these matters and speaking on subjects which we know nothing about.
My response to that was...do not assume that you are the only one here who has gone through the court systems and knows something about mediation, custody issues. Many of us have gone through it.
I do beleive that if you read the original posts....the grandparents do not have legal custody...they were awarded guardianship of the child when the mother disappeared. At that time the father did not seem to be in the picture since he was not on the birth certificate, hence, the grandparents were the only ones to turn to. | |
|
| Fathers rights - looking for ideas.
Posted: 6/29/2008 8:58:05 AM | from many past experiences with friends....
If I were your brother I'd hit up the lawyers that are just finishing school for some basic advice to start with. No they are not complete idiots...they are just finishing is all.
I'd go into court, stand up for myself with my family for my support.
In the eyes of the law...a biological parent does have MORE rights than a grandparent.
Now that the DNA has been supported he needs to get the birthcertificate changed, or the child could leave the country without his knowing.
Yes it will become a p*ssing match
Control is out of fear for these grandparents...they need to get a grip
Going into court alone will not be a bad thing...it may take a little longer
but from what I have seen, most judges give some guidance to the "unlaywered" person.
HOpe all goes well | |
|
| Fathers rights - looking for ideas.
Posted: 6/29/2008 9:09:51 AM | Easyguy...I honestly think that if this guy has stepped up to the plate from day one...insisted that his name be on the birth certificate and filed for custody the minute the grandparents tried to step in.....none of this would be an issue right now.
It is a lot harder to undo something than it is to make sure it is not done in the first place.
Please janalta, he did try to step up to the plate, the fact remains that they didn't live together prior to the birth, so she had every right not to put his name on the BC. There is more to the story then whats written here. It's not so cut and dry as you make it out to be. Paternity DOES take awhile to prove, and at the beginning, he wasn't even sure the baby was his as she had a habit for disappearing for weeks at a time.
He WAS in the picture, from the very beginning, he was always there for his daughter, but again, paternity was the issue, and since he couldn't prove he was the biological father, nobody paid him any attention.
But you're right, it is a lot harder to undo something. Hind sight and all. He learned the hard way and is now trying to do what he can to make things right.
The biological parent has the right to decline an out of town move. The custodial parent cannot just pick up and move, they have to get approval from the biological parent. If the move takes place without consent, it's considered kidnapping.
This is NOT true fox. Janalta is 100% correct. The grandparents have legal guardianship, which trumps anything the bio parents have to say. In essence, they ARE that baby's legal parents right now, they could move to PEI if they wanted to, nobody would be able to stop them because they have guardianship. If the bio parents wanted to stop them, they'd have to go to court and have the courts step in. As long as visitation is being upheld (if it's done up in a court doc), then they can do what they want.
And again, my brother did NOT sign off on anything, the guardianship was given to the grandparents because of child welfare involvement due to the mothers drug use. My brother was not on the BC, so he had no legal right to step in at the time because in the eyes of the law, if paternity was not established, he had absolutely NO say in what she did with the baby.
Just because one goes to mediation, does not mean that people will agree to things. Their mediation ended because they simply could not agree (same thing happened to me and my ex), and they were told they needed a judge to resolve the issues. Regardless of what happens in mediation, whether they work something out, or it was just a big waste of time, the mediator still has to write up a report, and in this case, the report states that the mother didn't even bother to show up, so really, how can mediation go forth, and people sign things off when the mother doesn't show up? The lawyer told my brother that this will also help him, the fact that the mother couldn't be bothered to show up.
It seems the mediation process didn't match the needs of the father, yet he had to have signed papers stating his agreement with what was said in mediation, and ultimately signed before a judge.
There was nothing to sign, there was nothing agreed upon, I'm starting to sound like a broken record here, but I'm not understanding why you keep asserting that something had to have been agreed to, signed and put in front of a judge? They simply went to mediation to try and work out things he was not happy with, and they disagreed with everything that was being put on the table, so the mediation session was ended, that simple. Nothing to go in front of a judge because nothing was agreed to.
Again, there is NO COURT ORDER that my brother signed. When all this went down, he was just another joe schmo off the streets, the courts didn't give a shit about him, simply because nobody was sure who the father was. it was only once he got the dna testing done he began to have SOME rights. Any other guy would have thrown his hands up and walked away I think. He IS trying, but it's not an easy process at this point. I agree, he should have done something at the beginning, but he thought they could work things out, being young and foolish. He knows better now.
He got some paperwork to fill out, and he'll be dropping it off at the lawyers early next week. Once she has that, she can go ahead and do her thing, she told him she expects them to be served sometime in July, with court being sometime in August. He has not told them he hired a lawyer, because that'll just make them run, and once they are out of the city, it'll be harder to fight this, so he's not saying a word to them, he's just gonna let them get served and then they're stuck here until this matter is resolved, one way or another.
Again, like another poster said, all I was looking for was some ideas that I could pass along to him to try and help him out, not a 'he should have done this, he should have done that" pissing match. Yes, he f*cked up, and he knows it, and now he's trying to do what he can to change things, so I have to give him credit for that. He is a good kid and an excellent father who had no idea how the law worked until he found himself in this mess. Can't fault him for that, he's doing the best he can, has done so all along, he's learning as he goes.
To sit here and b!tch about what he should have done a couple of years ago is hardly constructive. | |
|
| Fathers rights - looking for ideas.
Posted: 6/29/2008 9:44:41 AM | The reason I am asserting the mediation process, is because of my experience with mediation. At first I refused mediation, and was quickly handed a subpoena to appear in court. After much consideration and more understanding of the mediation process, I decided mediation would be the better way to go (imagine going through mediation with you ex after 11.5 freaking years!!)
During mediation, if there was an issue we couldn't agree on, they made us sit there UNTIL we agreed on SOMETHING, and would often comment that should we have a change of heart in the future, that we had the option to change the order in court.
It was my understanding (through my experience) that issues could not be left hanging, which is why I keep going back to that issue, and making you sound like a broken record! lol.
But then, my ex is on the Birth Certificate, so maybe that makes a difference? I'm not sure, but by the sounds of things, your brother is on the right path. Now that paternity has been established, things should go faster (hopefully), and as posted before, it would be wise that he get his name on the Birth Certificate soon.
Bravo for your brother for keeping himself involved and not giving up. | |
|
| Fathers rights - looking for ideas.
Posted: 6/29/2008 10:08:56 AM | See, that was not the case with me, I wanted to go to mediation, my ex didn't. Unless I wanted to hire a lawyer and spend thousands of dollars, there was nothing I could do. I didn't really want to go the court route anyways, better things to spend my money on.
He eventually agreed, and we got nowhere with it. At that point, I was ready to go to court, I was fed up with his games. I did hire a lawyer and before it got to Queens Bench, we had to go thru a JDR (which I was told is mandatory now?), which is kind of like mediation, but you are in a room with your lawyers and a judge. That is finally when things got settled because my ex realized he could not weasel his way out of paying child support (that's what our big issue was). The JDR saved me a lot of money because we hammered things out there. It took the judge to tell my ex what everyone had been telling him all along to make him realize that he HAD to pay guideline CS. It still cost me a bit, but nowhere near what it would cost if we had to go to court.
When we went to mediation, nothing was accomplished, he whined like the big baby he was, about how paying me child support to help raise our son would make him destitute, OMG, he was such a big drama queen, even going as far as to say he'd have to sell his house..... over a measly $400/mo??? WTFever. Even the mediator was so frustrated with it, she told us we'd have to go to court, then he whined even more that he couldn't afford a lawyer... In the end, I just told the mediator I'd had enough and literally walked out of the room!
Mediation IS good when both parties want to reach a resolution, but if there is no resolution to be reached, then there is no point in continuing, which is exactly what our mediator told us, and what the mediator told my brother and the grandparents last week. Some people have good experiences with mediation, others not so good, depends on the people involved and what they expect the outcome to be.
Fox, are you sure it was not a JDR you attended? Because in mediation things CAN be left hanging, not so much in a JDR though.
**Added, yes, he's going to get his name put on the birth cert. The lawyer told him it'd have to be hyphenated, but he's ok with that. | |
|
| Fathers rights - looking for ideas.
Posted: 6/29/2008 10:36:12 AM | Fox....mediation is NOT an official legal means...it is simply councelling, if you will....a way to try to avoid court.
No one has to sign any sort of agreement in mediation....ever.
If your mediator told you that a decision had to be reached....they lied to you.
We too went through mediation and accomplished nothing at all...and signed no form of legally binding agreement. In fact, when I said that I was asking for some money for our home, cattle, etc...he had a hissy fit and walked out, screaming about me trying to steal his father's farm....mediation over.
Mediation is great...IF both parties get along and agree to all issues surrounding custody, visitation and such...but pretty much a waste of time if you are on different wave lengths...but....a step that pretty much has to be done now before the courts will hear your case. | |
|
| Fathers rights - looking for ideas.
Posted: 6/29/2008 12:10:03 PM |
Fox, are you sure it was not a JDR you attended? Because in mediation things CAN be left hanging, not so much in a JDR though.
Aha.... Must have been JDR then, because we actually signed papers in front of a judge. No lawyers though, just me, the ex, a family counsellor and a judge.
If that's the case, then I can see why I was so confused about the mediation left hanging. All makes sense now!! | |
|
| Fathers rights - looking for ideas.
Posted: 6/29/2008 12:16:02 PM | LOL, mystery solved!
JDR's and mediation are sorta kinda the same, but different, they work on the same principal, but in mediation, things are able to be left hanging, people can (and do) walk out of them, as I did, they are more informal.
JDR's have a judge present, and if you agree to the terms, the paperwork is signed right there, and you avoid court. With mediation, the terms still have to be presented in court and signed off by a judge.
We had the option to go in without lawyers, but by this point, I'd already hired a lawyer, and wanted him there with me because he was a kickass guy and he really did help move things along. I was tired of the shit with my ex, and this was our last resort before we actually had to go to court. Thankfully, we got it all resolved before we both spent piles of money we didn't have on lawyers. | |
|
| Fathers rights - looking for ideas.
Posted: 6/29/2008 12:27:17 PM | OP
All i can say is take them to court, fight them. The judges only have one thing in mind. What's best for the child. They couldn't care less of the parents. They would in a heart beat hand the child over to the provonce if they felt it was the best interests of the child.
I too am in the same situation as your brother. With an ex like your brothers ex. I had an "epo" (emergency protection order) drawn up to protect our daughter. I now have full parental rights and my daughrer lives with me full time.
All i can suggest is, have faith in the courts when it involves children. HAve your brother keeps documented notes of every visit, conversations with the mother, the grandparents. Note EVERYTHING. It's very important. Have the courts limit where the grandparents can move with his child.
Basically, just fight, fight, fight!
Also, have your brother call once in a while with no regular pattern when he know, thinks or feels that the grand parents are out and his daughter is left alone with the mother unsupervised. Then either call the cops, write it down or record it with an audio device. Basically have him call their house, if they're out? the mother will answer, ask him to ask the mother to talk with the grandparents. She'll hesitate and make up excuses why BOTH grandparents can't come to the phone.
Prove that their unfit gaurdians. Just build evidence.
Good luck to your borther. | |
|
| Fathers rights - looking for ideas.
Posted: 6/30/2008 1:03:22 AM | Mediation of any sort can be made into an Court Order, as long as the parties agree and sign a Consent Order, present it to a judge, and have it signed.....simple.
AND NO, .....this is not some of the "new rapidly changing" ways someone was speaking about
Now, someone must have custody of this child presently, guardianship means nothing.
I expect it may well be the grandparents, possibly having been done ex parte, therefore the father would not know himself......this needs to be determined.
The O.P. is right, hindsight is 20/20, and people's opinions of what "they think" this father should have done, or should not have done, is irrelevant, and further leaves a negative taste.
What this situation needs, is positive ways to get this child into the best, most stable home.......
 | |
|
| Fathers rights - looking for ideas.
Posted: 6/30/2008 6:45:22 AM |
What this situation needs, is positive ways to get this child into the best, most stable home.......
Assuming that where the child is now is not the most stable home.
I am all for the father having as many rights as he can get and being a huge part of his daughter's life....but quite honestly, we have no idea what is in the best interest of the child.
There are two sides to every story and all we know about the grandparents is what we are being told by the 'opposition', as it were. No, their daughter didn't turn out very well so it seems...but does that necessarily mean that was the fault of her parents? They did step up to the plate to raise a child when most people are preparing for retirement....so could they be all bad?
Being a part of his daughter's life and trying to prove that where she is now is harmful are two completely different things.
| |
|
| Fathers rights - looking for ideas.
Posted: 6/30/2008 7:07:23 AM | | The term "custody" is no longer used by the courts. It's "Parenting rights". Asides from the small detail, The recieving end of an ex parte would be notified. I'm assuming he would have been notified of such things. Since he hasn't, it's pretty much evident that there is none in order. I'd suggest he get's one however, based on his fears that the child is being left alone unsupervised with the mother. This WILL get very messy, emotions will start to run VERY high on both sides. But if the OP's brother does want a fair chance. It's going to have to be done through the courts and he MUST start building evidence. As I mentioned before, based on what i had gone through? take notes of everything. | |
|
|
|
Home
login 
