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| The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/1/2008 1:10:33 PM | Why do females act like they don't know that men have ALWAYS been visual.
It's been this way for THOUSANDS of years, it hasn't changed. You just like restating that you don't like that...
But the fact remains, if it were any other way, WE (as a speciaes) wouldn't be here today
WE WANT A PICTURE.... NO ,WE NEED ONE! (unless were desperate enough to not care what female will meet us, and you don't want someone who doesn't care... it's the tell tale signs of soooo many things)
"Instant chemistry" is also what women end up hating (and how many women have I met that I never saw again only to find out weeks later that they really liked me, and that's why I never saw or heard from them- go figure)
now you can even LEARN HOW to cause "Instant Attraction"
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| The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/1/2008 1:18:59 PM |
Despite some poster's talking about all the "stuff" that our brain processes from touch, smell, taste, etc etc etc - I'm sorry, you don't process all that "stuff" in the first 5 seconds
Dallas, that would be me...dont waffle lol!
...don't fear science; it asks intelligent questions, then questions the answers, and tries again.
Summarily tossing out hypotheses that so far have been borne out by empirical research because they don't agree with preconceived conclusion....whether lofty treatise or well grounded research...is not conducive to further understanding. Here's a bit of fodder for thought for those curious...There have been numerous attempts to quantify differences in capability between the human brain and computers. According to Hans Moravec, by extrapolating from known capabilities of the retina (a singular input sensor; how does the brain handle the uncounted myriad of input simultaneously?) to process image inputs, a brain has a processing capacity of 0.1 quadrillion instructions per second (100 million MIPS).
The following four simultaneous forces act upon the brain in shaping its ability and to change and ultimate capability;
1. Social brain; Human cultures teach children what to believe and what to expect in life, interact with cell biology and molecular genetics to assemble the highly social human brain.
2. Genetic blueprint; Everyone’s brain begins with a basic scaffold of connectivity that is formed genetically.
3. Experience modification; Experience alters brain structure, chemistry and gene expression to sculpture immature neural circuits into adult circuitry.
4. Brain direction; In everyday life the brain directs people’s activities, while the activities themselves shape the brain throughout life.
Some brains are NOT as plastic, and cognition itself can become either "concrete" or non-existent, relying only on those previously indoctrinated truths.
Unfortunately, man believes that he is naturally intelligent and that he acts intelligently at all times. He does not recognize that all of his social interaction is instinct (intuition) driven. Nor does he recognize that many of his instincts are archaic and only partially applicable. Nor does he recognize that whereas logic and reason would always result in uniform behavioral action, the normal divergence in instincts across the gene pool of the human, will always produce divergent answers for the same behavioral questions. Where his genetically provided behavioral tendencies ie instincts, fit the particular social problem, he functions well, but since he is unable to sense the dividing line between his instinctive (intuition, reactive decision summation) and logical reasoning, he usually substitutes intuition, imagination and conjecture or prejudice for logic, reason, and creative intelligence. Then he swears to its authenticity by virtue of his 'construct of intelligence'.
Its a sticky wicket; but suffice to conjecture, the capability is astounding, unfortunately sometimes thwarted....
i posted earlier about these factors having confounding issues re: hygiene, depilation, artificial scents, culture, dialect, genetics/race/gender....among others.
No...my brain is not fooled by perfume..because scent is only ONE of the thousands of factors the brain instantaneously gauges. Yes, that "white linen-wafting alluring blonde in the black gown" who just waltzed by me undoubtedly immediately gets my attention FIRST INSTINCTIVELY, then intuitively, THEN cognitively.......so i assess further. Provided I have similarly "tripped" HER trigger, she is available and searching, and i pass her immediate cognitive approval.
I think MOST if not ALL longitudinally satisfying relationships BEGIN right there.
Some amazing live 4d brain scan functional MRI's bear a lot of this out...
I agree with you more than you allow; it DOES take some time to delve into those other factors that one must live with a particular selected potential life partner.
sorry about the long post...its is an in depth and fascinating field. Hardly can be even given cursory appraisal herein. But some of us...just must try!
cheers, and happy fishin ya'll! | |
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| The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/1/2008 1:48:52 PM | | So if its such a visual thing, why do you see a good looking man with a less than perfect looking woman? | |
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| The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/1/2008 2:00:46 PM | OK, lets take what you said and analyze a bit. First of all, yes, the human brain is amazing in its ability to process. But I think we can agree that there must be inputs to process - no inputs, nothing to process. So, you said:
"No...my brain is not fooled by perfume..because scent is only ONE of the thousands of factors the brain instantaneously gauges. Yes, that "white linen-wafting alluring blonde in the black gown" who just waltzed by me undoubtedly immediately gets my attention FIRST INSTINCTIVELY, then intuitively, THEN cognitively..."
Now, what "inputs" were available for your brain to process? Well, there's the "white linen-wafting" but you already postulated that your brain won't be fooled by perfume, so lets discount the white linen. So, what are we left with? That's easy, "alluring blonde in a black gown." So, we have physical, visual attraction - that's easy enough, and is my contention. Now, please list the other inputs that have been available for your brain to process at that point? Touch? No, she hasn't touched you and you haven't touched her. Voice? No, she hasn't spoken nor have you. Taste? No, we'll assume you didn't reach out and try to lick her.  Intelligence? Definitely not, you haven't even heard her speak. Shared interests? Nope. Personality? Nope. Sense of humor? Nope.
So, I argue - no matter how many million MIPS that wonderful brain is able to handle - it can only process the inputs which are made available to it. And looking at all the senses, all the facets of that woman, discounting the artificial smell of perfume, there's only one input available to your brain to analyze at that point. "Alluring blonde in a black gown." So, given no further inputs, the brain does its wonderful work and analyzes what's available to analyze. And in the first 5 seconds, that's it! If you disagree, please list the other inputs that you feel were made available to your brain to analyze at that point?
Physical, animal attraction. Lust. You can't analyze what hasn't been made available to analyze!
I believe in "chemistry", I really do. But I want MY "chemistry" with a woman to be all the things I mentioned above, rolled together. She may only be a "6 or 7" on the initial "5 second lust index" but if all those other things click, she'll climb well above that - IF I'm willing to invest just a bit of time to allow those other inputs to manifest themselves.
Its only the ones who claim they make their decision irrevocably in the first 5 minutes, or 5 seconds, who I contend are being extremely shallow and shortchanging the other person AND themselves! | |
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| The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/1/2008 2:10:24 PM |
so, OP, men make instant judgments too...pretending they don't is delusional.
Yes some men expect instant chemistry as well. But whenever there is a thread about this topic, it seems like a higher percentage of women will state that they want instant chemistry. | |
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| The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/1/2008 4:37:23 PM | I suppose it depends on what you are looking for, a one nighter, a FWB, a LTR. I think each would have it`s own priorities.
If looking for something of greater depth, you would need to look more inside the person than the outside. There are so many layers to attraction.
For myself, I don`t have a specific type of man I would go for. There are however a few traits that I generally find very attractive and stimulating. These are not physical however. But there are a ton of stoppers out there, more personality traits, but also a few physical. I guess it is just that right combination that seems to work for me and it comes in a lot of different packages. But I would definitely know within a 50 minute chat if there was a potential for interest.
I`m no longer however going to accept a date from a man that has crossed several stoppers. It`s just a waste of both of our time and why lead someone on or try to force the issue when you know it is going to crash and burn. If there is no spark at all, there probably won`t be one if you go out more. Just makes for hurt feelings. Just my observation. | |
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| The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/1/2008 7:44:45 PM | Wow.
Well written and extremely informative. I think we all develop blueprints over time and that odor/smell is the unique fingerprint that makes the attraction so unique and stimulating. That is truly chemistry in its rawest form and keeps us yearning for that bound.
I have had and been told by women there is instant chemistry within the first five minutes, primarily because it initailly matches the mental blueprint in our minds. This can deterioirate if there are personality clashes, which happen quite often. But, the blueprint and some of that attraction remains. | |
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| The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/1/2008 7:56:43 PM | I agree with you entriely
It is what it is, simply put
We all have different templates, but they are there! | |
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| The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/1/2008 10:05:19 PM | | To the OP: chemistry does not, in and of itself, constitute compatibility...but it's a necessary component thereof, so it's a perfectly valid criteria - particularly in the context of a (presumably) monogamous sexual relationship. Let's get real, these aren't just fishin' buddies we're seeking! | |
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| The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/2/2008 6:35:12 AM | | Dallas .. great post thanks.. I think you really nailed the first 5 second bit. Almost all the women Ive had any relations/relationships with when asked stated that what first attracted them to me was my smile.All the other came after. | |
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| The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/2/2008 6:47:25 AM |
Its only the ones who claim they make their decision irrevocably in the first 5 minutes, or 5 seconds, who I contend are being extremely shallow and shortchanging the other person AND themselves!
When I talk with young, single women (20's thru 40's), they often tell me that they have lots of men interested in them. Since they can't spend time dating all of them they need some criteria for sorting out which ones they want to date and which they don't. I can understand why they will use the "instant chemistry" demand to make this decision. | |
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| The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/2/2008 7:20:16 AM |
msg#123 They try to oversimplify something they can't understand to the point where it is something they "feel" within 5 seconds now. That is funny.
Yes, I'll have what shes having! 
I look at it this way. When I happen to run into these folks, I look at it as a natural filter. Why would I want to be around such a person who that unaware of themselves to the point where they are no better than a dog who chases their own tail and can't figure out why the can't catch it.
In the virtual world of instant everything,humm It kinda reminds me when I hear this chemistry some girls seek, is this the same attraction the groupie chicks had for rock bands to fall mindlessly head over heels ? ~smile~
I am glad the proportion of people in the non POF world seem to be a little more aware. If that wasn't the case I would probably have a permanent bruise on my forehead from endlessly banging my head against the wall.
Yes, that is a saving grace outside their virtual world which will save you from bumping your head too many times. | |
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| The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/2/2008 8:43:23 AM | | I think it happens on both sides. I'm looking more for feelings of lack of chemistry than for actual chemistry. If I feel I could never be attracted or charmed by someone, then I don't feel a need to pursue anything. Yes, I'm looking for a certain spark, but I don't expect to be wildly attracted to someone after five minutes. I'm not a teenager, so I don't expect some hot guy that I'll fall madly in love with the minute I lay eyes on him. If I'm on the fence about someones I'll go on another date or two until I see how we mesh. I think both men and women would be more successful with this whole thing if we tried things a few times with one person before calling it quits. | |
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| The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/2/2008 8:52:11 AM |
lack of chemistry than for actual chemistry. If I feel I could never be attracted or charmed by someone, then I don't feel a need to pursue anything. Yes, I'm looking for a certain spark
well said. i believe it surely involves the same decision; based from our instincts, intuition, subconscious dictates.
To exclude...or include...a potential...
i believe arises from that mystery.
can we explain "love"?
people we'd never imagine "right" together...going 60 years?
people we think "perfect"..in abject emotional bankruptcy?
our decisions are usually less calculating and rational than we imagine.
even for the "gold digger" when the gold tarnishes, and the mine grows old, where's the love? She may have convinced herself awhile.
even for the jet setter...seeking penultimate ego-stroking arm candy.
At the end of the day...an empty heart.
but..those in tune with the "heart".... and some of its cues...may make decisions that engender true love..if but also only a while.
no guarantees...in any of it. | |
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| The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/2/2008 8:55:00 AM | | Instant chemistry is a farce. It takes time to develop REAL attraction. The whole instant chemistry thing is for teenagers. Anyone who demands "instant chemistry" has the IQ of a cabbage and you should ignore them and move on. I've been in love but never felt this "chemistry" bull. I think it's a line women use most of the time when they think they're too good for you. | |
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| The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/2/2008 9:21:34 AM | | C'mon, heartseekertrue, I responded in depth to your last note - waiting for you to answer the questions I posed now! | |
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| The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/2/2008 11:08:06 AM | should be short and in a public place....that way neither one will have any expectations....we'll both know within the first 5 min. if there's any chemistry between us..." If it's THAT extreme (first 5 minutes).....the translation is, "If I don't find you the hottest man on the face of the earth, then I'll date you". | |
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| The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/2/2008 12:20:51 PM | You HARDLY see a man EXCLUSIVELY with a woman less attractive then he is. ...and then again, your taste may be different.
But like someone with no money problems will buy the best car he wants, so to will a man date the best possible mate.
lol- Its FUNNY, the man (forgot your name here) claiming that men ARN'T visual- who the hell do you think your fooling!!??
Let me add, the other senses that are involved, because Dallas, clearly you need to do some research on the subject (not being a jerk, just saying).
Just quickly, SMELL; There are few who can actually smell biology at work (I seem to be one of the ones who can in certain cases). Pheromones. They are picked up through the nose of both sexes, and actually give genetic information about the opposite sex. There's are things related to immunities, and other information. Perfume, just smells nice man.
The chemical, least in men, is something like androsterone (NOT androstenidine, dion, diol)
And just to be funny, technically, your sense of smell DEPENDS on TOUCH- particles from her would have to enter your nose and phyically interact with you. | |
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| The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/2/2008 12:55:45 PM | I think today's paranoid society kind of puts a hindrance on that instant chemistry demand:
For me personally, I tend to establish chemistry via "less-than-pristine interactions", i.e. a little flirting, perhaps some playful glances or touching, the faintest of caresses, a dash of inappropriate humor/innuendo, some close dancing, etc.
However depending on your first date venue and just how nervous your date is about online dating in general, you may be forced to walk a tight line between being completely polite and respectful yet somehow still trying to generate some playful sexual/romantic interest. 
That's a fine line to walk, especially if you're not allowed to do any of the activities I mentioned above... 
In my case, I do know whether I'm attracted to a lady within 5 seconds of seeing her, because my focus is predominantly visual. If I don't like the visual, I don't care about the personal from a ROMANTIC aspect. I might still be interested in making her into a friend, but if I don't get that Lust-O-Meter siren at the onset it isn't going to develop over time, that's just me though... 
Fortunately I don't waste time tossing around buzz words like chemistry; I just see if I'm into someone or not, and if I'm not, I do them the courtesy of letting them know politely as soon as I've made the decision in my mind.  | |
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| The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/2/2008 1:04:06 PM | "First meeting or date (whatever you want to call it) should be short and in a public place....that way neither one will have any expectations....we'll both know within the first 5 min. if there's any chemistry between us..."
Yes, you are correct. In the first face-to-face you will ONLY know (IMHO) if you are both physically attracted to each other (you can stand looking at one another...lol)I/others are looking for this - as we all want to be visually stimulated by our potential S.O.
If the physical aspect is not there - something strong enough better be present to interest both parties on seeing each other again.  | |
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| The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/2/2008 6:56:03 PM | Zowie - this thread moved fast!
I think PoF would be well served to have a "Chemistry" data field like "Do you have children." Choices could be "Under 5 mins" and "5 mins or more" - that would allow users to filter people by chemistry. On attempting contact, folks with incompatible views on chemistry would then see something like "You must want chemistry in under 5 mins to contact this user" - should save heartburn on both sides, I would hope.
AMEN, hurray, standing ovation, riotious applause!!! 
Dallas, I completely agree with you and have enjoyed the posts of Lateef, ItsMargo, and SerenityBreeze.
heartseekertrue, I'll deal with you in a bit.
For starters, it's more than clear that semantics is the issue here. People define 'chemistry' very differently and all cling to their definitions as though they were blessed by Webster & Co. Perhaps it would be better to try for a series of threads and being explicit about your definition of 'chemistry' for each one.
As to various statements made:
***all my relationships*** were always formed from an almost instant connection in person (my emphasis)
LOL - irony, much?
the body is a horrible piece of equipment because you are so often physically attracted to the mentally imbalanced and truly stupid.
 now there's wisdom!
Chemistry is not a guarantee for success, but the lack thereof is an indicator for certain failure.
Not having 'instant chemistry' does not mean there will never be chemistry. That's one of the main problems with this 'instant chemistry' theory.
But you assume it's a choice. It isn't....I simply cannot become interested in a man as a potential mate if I don't lust after him. And my experience is that if it isn't there right away, it's never going to be.
I'm sorry, maybe it works for some people, but it's never really worked for me that I meet someone, have no physical attraction whatsover, but think that "chemistry" might grow further down the road.
And in my experience, if it isn't there right away it absolutely can develop over time - and that sort is *much* stronger than the type that happens instantly.
I see a ton of threads about a guy with a female friend that he's known for YEARS, and became attracted to. This isn't a common occurence with women.
Did you do a study of all women that you can present this conclusion? I disagree because it happened to me so there's your data skewed already.
WE WANT A PICTURE.... NO ,WE NEED ONE
If you think a photo accurately represents a person, then your thinking is seriously flawed.
if you don't have the physical attraction, then you've got yourself a companion. if you have the physical attraction, but not friendship, then that's just lust. lust you know immediately, friendship takes time. bringing the two together is the hard part.
Again, it's not about *never* having physical attraction; physical attraction can and will develop over time if you find other commonalities - but you must give it time to happen. And, no, lust you don't know immediately. I'd have missed out very badly had I allowed that fallacy to govern my behaviour. For me, I have to be attracted intellectually for lust to have a chance and you can't determine someone's brainpower in a couple of seconds or minutes.
the CHOICE to entertain a further relationship sufficient time to develop...is itself based on an immediate decision.
Not even that. I will allow for 'intuition' and 'gut feeling' because I have had those and the 'bad vibes' I got initially from people were inevitably true. However, that's a rare experience and none of the people I may not have had 'instant chemisty' with but developed chemistry with later didn't generate the 'bad' vibe. I don't argue that you try to battle a 'bad vibe' if you get it, however people you may be indifferent to initially can grow on you surprisingly.
It seems you're now saying that a choice to continue to get to know someone happens instantly. Again, no. If your immediate reaction is repulsion, then maybe you won't give it a chance, but seriously, how often does that happen. Sometimes you're taken with someone but more often than not you are indifferent and need to give it a chance to see if something develops.
The following four simultaneous forces act upon the brain in shaping its ability and to change and ultimate capability;
1. Social brain; Human cultures teach children what to believe and what to expect in life, interact with cell biology and molecular genetics to assemble the highly social human brain.
2. Genetic blueprint; Everyone’s brain begins with a basic scaffold of connectivity that is formed genetically.
3. Experience modification; Experience alters brain structure, chemistry and gene expression to sculpture immature neural circuits into adult circuitry.
4. Brain direction; In everyday life the brain directs people’s activities, while the activities themselves shape the brain throughout life
And therefore in these discussions about 'chemistry', we see that some people operate on 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 or combinations of the above and that some folks stick to 1 and 2 and never let 3 and or 4 mitigate the effects of 1 & 2
He does not recognize that all of his social interaction is instinct (intuition) driven. Nor does he recognize that many of his instincts are archaic and only partially applicable.
Right. But those of us who have become informed about the vagaries of our animal instincts can bring the more evolved bits of the brain into play and reason with the bits that are trying to tell us that there's 'chemistry' with someone.
Still, of the men I've met from online meet-ups I would say they decide right away if you are attractive in the way they want
That has been my situation. Worse, I spent time in email or on the phone discussing chemistry and friendship and that I don't believe in chemisty and want to start slowly and see if we can manage friendship first and they agree on the phone.
Then, when we meet, they say that they're really 'romantics' and believe in 'instant chemistry' and pretty much were hoping it would happen to us both and that somehow I'd become a convert to their way of thinking. GRRRRR. 
Too bad all the people who share Dallas' opinion (and mine) live too far away and/or are too young for me.  | |
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| The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/2/2008 7:19:19 PM | "I see a ton of threads about a guy with a female friend that he's known for YEARS, and became attracted to. This isn't a common occurence with women."
Did you do a study of all women that you can present this conclusion? I disagree because it happened to me so there's your data skewed already.
Nowhere in that quote did I indicate there was an absolute on that...I said "not common". I didn't say "impossible".
You're not skewing anything. All you're proving is that you're one of the few that CAN become attracted to someone over time and lose the revulsion. Doesn't make you right or anyone who can't wrong, it just makes you different.
My point is that I PERSONALLY cannot do that, and I know this about myself based on past experience. I know men seem to do this more than women, but not all men will develop attraction over time, and not all women won't. IME (meaning me, not anyoe else) it seems to be that men tend to do it one way and women another. | |
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| The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/2/2008 9:05:50 PM |
Nowhere in that quote did I indicate there was an absolute on that...I said "not common". I didn't say "impossible".
Yes, and Merrylass' contention - and she's right - is that your own personal experience, or even that of some of your girlfriends, does not give you grounds to flatly say "This isn't a common occurrence with women." You can say its not common FOR YOU, but not that its not common WITH WOMEN IN GENERAL. | |
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| The instant chemistry demand
Posted: 7/3/2008 1:33:21 AM | | Chemistry doesn't seem to make any sense to me, some really hot girls make me want to smash my face into the dirt, some hella average girls I can't stop thinking about, sometimes it's a killer personality, sometimes it's just the right fit at the right time with the right look, but never have I ever been able to pin it down to any one thing. I've known smart matches that haven't done it for me, bad matches that I seem to just love being around, and everything in between/opposite. | |
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