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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/4/2008 10:46:53 AM | i am a financially self-sufficient woman
on the dates i have been on, i have offered to split the cost of whatever we have eaten/had to drink
in every instance, the offer has been graciously declined, and my date has picked up the tab
i agree with those who say its simply not fair that a man is EXPECTED to pick up the tab just because of his anatomy;
i also admit, however, that though i am willing and able to pay my own way, i find it feels more like a date if my date picks up the tab, in the same way that although i am capable of opening a door for myself, i find it sweet when a gentlemen opens a door, allows me to go ahead of him, etc. it somehow just seems kind and gentlemanly (is that a word?) to me.
i don't generally consider myself to be old-fashioned, but i guess what i just said could be perceived that way.........overall, its not about the $$$ to me; but i could see that if you date alot, or do not have a great job, the expense of dating could soon become a financial dilemma for the guys. this is why i always offer to pay my share, and though i've never been taken up on that offer, i would not think less of a guy who did | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/4/2008 10:48:57 AM | Men arent raised like they use to be. There not polite and they treat u like a slave and a bank account rather than a queen that u deserve to be treated like.
If you don't want to pay for anything you're treating him as a bank account. He deserves to be treated like a king too by that logic. So you alternate expenses.
It doesn't matter what you purchased. The old school way is to pay for the lady.
Isn't this 2008?
Perfectly said.
I never offer to pay and I can't believe men will even allow a woman to pay. Have they no couth?
Good for you gold digger. A woman pulls her weight. (When you use the word woman you imply an adult who believes in sharing responsibility and being fair). Have you no pride or morals or ability to give? I wonder how many dates you get.
i also admit, however, that though i am willing and able to pay my own way, i find it feels more like a date if my date picks up the tab, in the same way that although i am capable of opening a door for myself, i find it sweet when a gentlemen opens a door, allows me to go ahead of him, etc. it somehow just seems kind and gentlemanly (is that a word?) to me.
So then what's your contribution to the relationship? Isn't a good relationship 50/50 (or 100/100)? Kindness is only restricted to men doing for women? | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/4/2008 11:05:32 AM | Boy...a date from hell to me usually means a night out spent trying to end a date. As far as the money goes..well..if they act like that one the first date - I consider myself lucky to only be out the cost of one meal. That's why I love meeting for coffee or drinks as a first meeting.  | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/4/2008 11:10:35 AM |
So you go dutch on your dates? Its kind of unromantic but still fair. If both parties have similar tastes it would be best to alternate paying.
Sometimes, sometimes not. Depends on the other person, and the circumstances. But dutch for meetups, definitely. And I'm kind of a traditionalist, in that for the first few (at least the first) dates, I think that the one who asks should expect to pay--unless they have been upfront from the beginning, i.e., meetup, that they expect, for whatever reason, each to pay their own expenses unless specifically stated otherwise.
I have absolutely no problem paying my own way if I know about it beforehand, but would be just a little upset if asked on a "date" and then find out when the bill is presented that I am expected to split/pay my own. Just in case, if it hasn't been discussed beforehand, I make sure that I don't order any more than I'm prepared to pay for, in case my "date" does this.
When I ask a man out (and I have, and will do so again, once I find someone I'm interested in dating) I expect to pay all costs, but do appreciate it if he offers the tip, or dessert, or after-dinner drink, which is what I do in the same situation. Usually, I accept, other times (usually special occasions) I'll tell them thanks, but the night is entirely my treat, and they can do likewise some other time.
After that, like I said, it depends. Communicate! By the time you've gone on more than a handful of dates, you should be able to establish a plan for dating parity that works for both people. I do enjoy being treated to a meal and/or evening of entertainment, certainly, and I also enjoy treating someone, when I can.
If there's a big disparity in disposable income, that certainly factors into things. When I'm the person on the lower end and my date does most of the paying, I offer to leave the tip and/or buy dessert or a round of drinks later. I also invite over for homecooked meals or gourmet picnics. When I've been the higher-earning person, I've made sure that my date/partner understands that the attraction for me is them and their company--which, if he wants to treat, I can enjoy at a diner or other location just as well as a 4star restaurant.
I don't want any man, regardlessof income, to think he has to overspend to impress me--it actually does just the opposite.
I have pretty simple tastes, and since I'm currently dirt-poor, that's a good thing, for sure! | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/4/2008 11:22:04 AM | | Absolutely!!,the guy should pay on the first date,no matter who asks who out,never mind that hair splitting bullshit,he should jump to pay!this guy was a total cheap ass,he discusts me!,he gives dating a horrible black eye. I've been seeing a girl for over a year now as a friend and I still pay for everything,no matter what.Next time ask for seperate cheques,if he insists on one cheque from the waiter,ask him why,make him SAY he wants to pay for yours,other wise he may be trying to get you to cover it. If he sais he'll cover it,at least he'll pass the cheap ass test.Cheap asses are dead beats,losers,living in their parents basement most likely with no prospects,poorly dressed,and self centered,with bad people skills,and would screw you over just as soon as something isn't convenient.To be honest,if a guy doesn't pay,I'd dump his ass on the spot if I were you.If he can't afford to date,he shouldn't be playin' the game. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/4/2008 11:47:52 AM |
That's why I love meeting for coffee or drinks as a first meeting.
I agree with you, a first meeting should be over coffee or drinks, that way no one feels cheated if it doesn't work out. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/4/2008 12:02:44 PM | In my view of things, it doesn't matter whom asked who out. It doesn't matter if you think you should be treated like a 'queen'. It doesn't matter if you like a guy to romance you and you think that it requires money to do so. In today's world, equal footing is the name of the game and 50-50 is the way to go. It's fair.... it's honest... it makes sense.
For you to think that because you had to pay more, that it was a date from hell, is completely retarded. If, however, he was a total jerk, than okay... Just because you had to pay more and you didn't particularly have sparks with the guy, does not qualify it to be a date from hell.
Dating is all about ritual.... but, while there is some part of us that clings to the old ways, the old ways can never stand up to the shifting sands of time. Men and women are more equal now, than ever before in known human history and this is causing a shift in behaviors and expectations.
I think once you get into a solid relationship, you shouldn't keep score, but you shouldn't take advantage of that relationship, to the detriment of it...
If you think that a guy should pay the first and perhaps the first several dates... maybe you should reevaluate your expectations and see if they match up with the equity of our present environment.
If for instance, I had a lot of money... and it was obvious my date was less fortunate in that department, I would most definitely pay 100 percent, without pause and without expectation on my part... I would hope the same would be true if the roles were reversed.
Ultimately, I think more people are comfortable with the 50-50 proposition... and if I'm with a woman and she feels I did something wrong, because I want it 50-50... well... I'm not with the right woman.
the giggleparts - wisdom comes in the form of me | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/4/2008 12:04:43 PM | bsolutely!!,the guy should pay on the first date,no matter who asks who out,never mind that hair splitting bullshit,he should jump to pay!this guy was a total cheap ass,he discusts me!,he gives dating a horrible black eye. I've been seeing a girl for over a year now as a friend and I still pay for everything,no matter what.Next time ask for seperate cheques,if he insists on one cheque from the waiter,ask him why,make him SAY he wants to pay for yours,other wise he may be trying to get you to cover it. If he sais he'll cover it,at least he'll pass the cheap ass test.Cheap asses are dead beats,losers,living in their parents basement most likely with no prospects,poorly dressed,and self centered,with bad people skills,and would screw you over just as soon as something isn't convenient.To be honest,if a guy doesn't pay,I'd dump his ass on the spot if I were you.If he can't afford to date,he shouldn't be playin' the game.
No matter who asks a guy should pay? This would mean girls would be going around asking constantly. Girl ask, guy pays. Women would be eating for free every day if people believed this philosophy. And a woman who expects to pay when she asked would not only be a bad partner but has some people problems. That is just bad etiquette.
I know plenty of men who believe in dutch. A few are investment bankers with apartments in NYC, dress in nothing but designer clothes and obviously have better people skills than someone like you who can't even spell or have proper grammar.
I'm glad your friend found a whipped man. I have a backbone. Not every man feels submissive or inferior.
Guys like justme have ruined dating for normal sane men like me and giggleparts.
Id never even consider taking a girl to a restaurant for the first date..id take her to a pub or cafe.
Maybe ive been lucky as ive not yet met a free loader, every girl ive dated has offered to buy the next round..Ive always declined, but id feel less than happy if she didnt offer...id probably not bother seeing her again.
This the man is always presumed to pay attitude cuts no ice with me...id feel pretty cheap , as if I had to buy her company.
So you always declined the offer? Shouldn't a relationship be 50/50 though? | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/4/2008 12:11:43 PM | Id never even consider taking a girl to a restaurant for the first date..id take her to a pub or cafe.
Maybe ive been lucky as ive not yet met a free loader, every girl ive dated has offered to buy the next round..Ive always declined, but id feel less than happy if she didnt offer...id probably not bother seeing her again.
This the man is always presumed to pay attitude cuts no ice with me...id feel pretty cheap , as if I had to buy her company. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/4/2008 12:31:42 PM | I'll grow a backbone as soon as you grow-up. Yes, a relationship is 50/50 and a guy who pays for everything and beyond is probably compensating for something, but seriously, are you so uptight you won't shell out an extra 15-30 dollars for her part of the meal? Compromise is possibly the most important part of a relationship, but so is making your partner feel wanted and loved, and something as simple as picking up the tab for a meal shows you're chilvarous and desire to continue seeing her. Do you buy chocolates and flowers as a surprise but ask her to pay for half of it? Do you expect money back from Christmas and birthday presents?
No backbone? Please. Wanting to treat your lady special makes you a spineless coward? Grow up. Men wouldn't be here if it wasn't for women, I wouldn't be who I am if it wasn't for the women in my life, and frankly, paying for her part of a dinner is a small part of what most women deserve.
P.S. If the woman offers to pay for half, I'm more than willing to accept. I may ask her if it's alright, but if she insists further I don't push the subject. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/4/2008 12:35:45 PM | Mark this is why we love you...
I DO expect a man to pay for dinner if he asks me out. I paid for my part of a dinner a few times, but only when I knew I never wanted to see the guy again. I'm more likely to pay for the popcorn if he buys the movie tickets but I only pay for my share of the dinner on a first date if I need to send a CLEAR signal that it's not going anywhere... | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/4/2008 12:35:45 PM | Who said id never treat a women i dont love spineless?
I think some people live in the dream world here im talking about a first date ?? first meeting ellooo wake up please. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/4/2008 12:42:03 PM | I suppose some guys would feel a little insecure if they feel they have to lavish someone on the very first date...maybe its the male bread winner thing? god help him if the woman earned far more and could lavish on him far more than he could reciprocate | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/4/2008 12:52:39 PM | Do you buy chocolates and flowers as a surprise but ask her to pay for half of it? Do you expect money back from Christmas and birthday presents?
No but dinner is a mutually pleasurable activity. Its not a gift or surprise. Please don't even get me started on gifts. Men give surprise gifts all the time. What do women do? And for Christmas they get you the cheapest thing they can find but expect jewelry.
god help him if the woman earned far more and could lavish on him far more than he could reciprocate
no man would feel that way. if a woman could give more doesn't matter because she WON'T. Women are calculating like that and give you a fraction of what you give them no matter what. When was the last time the average male got a surprise gift, or picnic or weekend away? I'm pretty sure it was in his dreams.
Score points? Oh wow. That tells me you have no backbone. You need to score points and bribe women with food and cater to them. This wasn't a coffee. It was a $60 dinner and he paid more than she paid by at least $20 as someone pointed out. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/4/2008 12:55:17 PM | Pardon me, but paying for dinner, coffee, or a movie isn't "lavashing" them. You're being a gentlemen, you're being chivalrous, and possibly helps you score a couple points if you're interested in the long run. You're not paying hundreds of dollars on gifts, it's a dinner, probably coffee for pete's sake.
john- OKay, now I know you need to grow up and I'm practically half your age. You don't buy gifts for something in return, you do it because you love and care for the woman and you want to make her happy. Besides, you don't have good female friends if they buy you the "cheapest thing" for X-Mas and birthdays, I've gotten some awesome items for my celebration gifts. Probably not the best I've receieved, but things I needed and wanted and full of their love (friendship mind you).
ANd how the hell is "scoring points" considered not having a backbone? It's a dinner! Probably something one doesn't do very often, it will hardly hurt your wallet to shell out an extra 20. If someone wants to continue seeing someone, it shouldn't hurt to go a little further. it's not bribing, it's, like you seem to keep missing, gentlemenly. You're not giving the woman the deed to your house, your PIN number, or the keys to your car. It's 40-50 dollars! | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/4/2008 1:03:04 PM | @Recurring Dream
Do you know what a straw man is?
A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw man argument" is to describe a position that superficially resembles an opponent's actual view but is easier to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent (for example, deliberately overstating the opponent's position).[1] A straw man argument can be a successful rhetorical technique (that is, it may succeed in persuading people) but it carries little or no real evidential weight, because the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted.[2]
I think your heart is in the right place, but I don't agree with everything you said(probably because of how you phrased it, more than I don't actually agree).
@kiwi31909
I DO expect a man to pay for dinner if he asks me out. I paid for my part of a dinner a few times, but only when I knew I never wanted to see the guy again. I'm more likely to pay for the popcorn if he buys the movie tickets but I only pay for my share of the dinner on a first date if I need to send a CLEAR signal that it's not going anywhere...
You might expect it... but, so what?
So you are telling me that paying for YOUR (I'm using your own conventions here so don't get upset) part of dinner, means you are not interested? How is that a clear signal? If it were me, I would not be thinking she CLEARLY didn't think this was going anywhere. Not only that, but the next time we would go out (hypothetical in my mind situation, obviously) I'll probably pay for the night out, just to switch it up and show my appreciation.
I'm telling you... expectations pave the road to misunderstanding and disappointment.
Hiding behind the concept of chivalry and romance..... chivalry is opening the door for someone and pulling out their chair.... it's defending their honor.... romance is a gentle caress and a whispered promise... it is not something green. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/4/2008 1:17:30 PM | Probably going off topic here as ive had a few
But who hasnt heard of the old clitche( cant spell now im definately)
'He took me for a meal etc etc then expected sex afterwards? Ive heard that a thousand times in other forums!
At least by not lavishing on a women on the first date , theres no preconsceptions that she has to pay anything in return...NOT I ADD WOULD I EVER..but ive heard of women put in that very situation, theyve gone out to a fancy restaurant and the blokes paid everything, and the blokes expected favours in return.
If i take someone for a date, id buy a few beers or few coffees, and hope the girl likes me for me and not whats in my wallet!
I have a mate, filthy rich....he met a girl down the local years ago...they arranged a date the very next day...anyway he borrows my 20 year old rustbucket, leaving hes new jag at home..takes her out..and there still together now...she thought he was piss poor still liked him and he loved her even more for that very reason ;-) and now he lavishes on her every day. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/4/2008 1:18:08 PM | It's alright if you don't agree with everything I say, that's part of individuality. My responses were, due in fault, to a knee-jerk reaction to me being called a coward and "without a backbone." If a man prefers to pay for half for the first date, that's fine, I'm not saying anything bad about it, but I just think it more chivalrous to pay for a meal.
I do apologize for sounding like a martyr, or "straw-man". Like repeated, it was a knee-jerk reaction to being called names, and, in addition, he calls everyone who likes to treat women a little more fairer spineless and attention-grabbing. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/4/2008 1:35:18 PM | Over 3 years since I last had a date...a meal, drinks and a movie. Would've been happy with a "Thanks, I've enjoyed the night, but don't really think we're suited." but all I got was a stony silence and the next day an email to say please don't contact me again.
I've grown used to not getting more than 1 date, but least I can ask for is for the woman to be civil when she says she doesn't think it's going anywhere.
As a person, who isn't confident in the datign arena, this sort of experience does nothing for my self esteem. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/4/2008 1:46:03 PM | I really feel for you there mate. I hate arrogance! if that ever happened to me id walk out there and there.
Reading some of these first date threads...personly If its a first date from the internet id regard them as relatively a stranger.
People can and do say what they will on an internet dating site..but i say trust is earned never given, only a fool trusts a stranger,
Id disregard any advice from the majority on here....and there i go giving it so tell me where i can shove it lol. lets just say thats my opinion but you dont have to follow it. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/4/2008 1:54:11 PM | Giggleman...
Paying for my part of dinner is just a part of me making it clear that I'm not interested. I don't know...Maybe it's just a Southern thing? It's not a generational thing because I date men of all ages from 23 to 62, but they've never asked, expected or accepted any part of me paying for anything on a first date.
That being said... if a guy expresses an interest in me and tells me up front that he can't afford to go anywhere....I'm all over watching a video at home and eating popcorn from the cupboard. Dating younger men...that happens a lot. But it can be as fun...if not MORE fun than going to a fancy restaurant! | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/4/2008 1:58:48 PM | Women are calculating like that and give you a fraction of what you give them no matter what. When was the last time the average male got a surprise gift, or picnic or weekend away? I'm pretty sure it was in his dreams.
You must have been hurt many times by bad women, but not all women are like that. I wish you luck in the future, but please you must let go of this anger.
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