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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 12:03:22 AM | Im a gentleman but if I hear another woman squawk, "Im old fashioned, the man always buys", Im going to puke...A true woman with class isnt going to be here, yapping her gub that men owe her something because she is a woman...
If a woman brings class to the table , "Ive got no problem"...Thank internet dating ladies for the loser broke arse porks that bring nothing to the table but ego, arrogance, self indulgence, greed and sloth...For the woman who expect to be treated like ladies and ask for nothing more,"Guys will be more than giving"... | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 4:29:47 AM | To me, this whole thing is funny. Women want equality (except when it comes to paying for the date). I don't mind paying and believe me I've spent plenty on dates but it's rare when "it's fair". Don't misconstrue this because if I want to take a lady out, I will pay.
Also, I have had women pay for me too and it is a funny feeling only because it happens so infrequently. I think it's hard for a guy these days. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 5:47:12 AM | I think it's hard for a guy these days.
One solution for this is to be more discerning about a potential date, pick and choose with care, thus going on less dates and concentrating on those that really matter to you - but at the same time be realistic about what you have to offer and don't date too much out of your league.
It seems the nature of the internet that people get the feeling that they are strolling along some sort of 'love supermarket' where they can pick women up according to their fancy. It is only when they get to the checkout that they realise that they should have been more fussy!
No man who is infatuated with his partner complains about the financial cost - this IS about romance isn't it? All he cares about is keeping her.
Another solution would be to do as another poster suggested, start with coffee and work your way up to a three-course meal if you are not sure.
In any case, if a man invites out a woman, and chooses the venue, he should pay. If he can't afford it - again he should be more realistic - dating is not about treating someone to something you can't afford! This is about introducing a girl to part of your life - if you don't normally eat out at five star - don't take her there - take her somewhere you feel comfortable with and can happily afford. If a man doesn't invite a woman out, why she asks him is a big mystery to me - he shouldn't be dating at all in my opinion!
So many times a budding relationship founders at such an early point as 'who pays for what'. Men should just accept many women don't like paying for themselves - and women that pay for the men are even rarer - and the whole relationship might be at stake for one silly bill! If they want to stand the best chance of keeping the girl they should pay - no question. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 6:15:00 AM | | I don't really believe that it has anything to do with how pretty you are. If it does, how come these hot guys are with the fat, ugly chicks and treat them like gold??!! Looks aren't all that matters to women, and I think the same is trure for most men. Unless they are shallow asses, but who needs them?>????? | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 8:20:43 AM | In any case, if a man invites out a woman, and chooses the venue, he should pay. If he can't afford it - again he should be more realistic - dating is not about treating someone to something you can't afford! This is about introducing a girl to part of your life -
This is good but so one-sided. In 2008 any woman can invite out a man and choose the venue just as easily as the reverse. Yes, I know a lot of people are still uncomfortable with gender equality, but so far as I am concerned they are not people I want to know anyway. If I ever sensed that somebody I was with was stuck in old-fashioned expectation that having testosterone implies that I have an obligation that I didn't volunteer for, she wouldn't hear from me again.
When I met a woman who treated me totally as her equal, I was very impressed. I learned a lot from being with her. Right from first contact, I noticed that just as I enjoyed doing nice things for her, she was eager to do nice things for me. This was not a market exchange transaction neither was it just conforming to some social ritual about what "dating" is "supposed" to be. It was just two people learning about each other and increasingly liking what they found. It pleases me that our daughter is an outcome of our marriage and now growing up as a liberated woman with modern ideas.
Reading the posts in this thread I find it appalling that so many people think social relationships are built on who spends what etc., as if life is about obligations. Surely grown up human beings can explore relating to each other on the grounds of affection, courtesy, commitment, honesty, love and mutual support. I don't think it's a good situation if anybody is running a mental bookkeeping program in his or her mind rather than just enjoying the moment.
A "date from hell" can mean many things but I predict that anybody who thinks "who pays what" is a really big deal is on board a relationship Titanic. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 8:40:18 AM |
No man who is infatuated with his partner complains about the financial cost - this IS about romance isn't it? All he cares about is keeping her.
so how is someone your "partner" if its just a first date? or a second date? or a third date? What you said makes zero sense. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 8:46:51 AM |
Men should just accept many women don't like paying for themselves
LOL..are you serious?..that's your argument?..wow..why don't wmen just accept that men don't like paying for them on a first date? why can't women accept the fact that it's attractive to a man when a woman offers to pay for herself/contribute, in a "genuine" way?.. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 8:47:26 AM |
A date a man pays for is for the pleasure of that woman's company
Fantastic! Then with any further due, any man have the right to classify you as an escort and treat you accordingly. And then you wonder why men don't respect you? Classic! | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 8:58:24 AM |
Ive never had a bad date like that..I mean Ive dated shitty men in the past but at least they paid for dates...
Men arent raised like they use to be. There not polite and they treat u like a slave and a bank account rather than a queen that u deserve to be treated like.
I don't get statements like these. Of course men aren't raised like the used to be. We are raised beliving in gender equality. From your argument I'll take it that you are ok with the idea of women treating men like bank accounts but equally upset about the plane equaling out meaning you have to pull your own weight. Also, a woman deserves to be treated as a queen when she prooves that she is one. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 9:11:21 AM | Posted By: HappyGilmore2 on 7/6/2008 8 26 AM
Subject: Hi just had a date from hell....again
Message:
A date a man pays for is for the pleasure of that woman's company
Fantastic! Then with any further due, any man have the right to classify you as an escort and treat you accordingly. And then you wonder why men don't respect you? Classic!
.................................................................
Wow. Did she really say that? It really is a classic, how did I miss it?
Let me call Charles Dckns right now. A novelist from Queen Victoria's early years will be delighted to talk to this woman and see what she is about and write her into a character in a novel. The passive woman, or the courtesan or the geisha, who is paid to decorate a lonely hour in the life of some horny man with more money than self-esteem. All she has to do is provide "the pleasure of that woman's company" and he will empty his wallet for her.
So her companionship is a commodity to be purchased, not a gift to be given. She should take out ads in the smutty papers offering to "give men a good time" for an hourly rate. There are plenty of lonely males out there with money in their pockets who will "pay for the pleasure of that woman's company" by spending half his paycheck on a dinner for her and what's left will be left on her table for her to find when she wakes up in the morning. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 9:22:20 AM | ^^^^^^Yeah, totally the point. That is why I turn down any and all dinner invitations from a man unless I feel there is really an interest that I may like to see him for an extended period. Too many guys "want " to pay the entire bill and then demand sexual favors. It is really ugly,and they won`t stop if you pay your half . Then they just think they got a half off deal. Rule of thumb. If a guy hardly knows you and wants to take you for an expensive dinner with all the frills straight on, he is probably percieveing you as a prostitute for dinner. I learned that here on POF and from a few guys trying to pull this.
Alot of men, especially once they get older, become so jaded, that they say things like "well you end up paying for it one way or another"so for them the choice is to either go out and hire a professional, or date and see if you can get some. I`m sure the latter is much more of a challenge so is more often than not the preferred choice. I am extremely aware that this is the way alot of men are, and guard myself from it.
I would never accept a dinner date from a man any more for a first date, it is way too risky and dangerous. You don`t know what they are going to try. Unless you want to have sex with the guy first time, don`t accept a dinner date.
Not all guys are this way, but enough are that you have to use it as a blanket rule. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 9:25:59 AM | I would never accept a dinner date from a man any more for a first date, it is way too risky and dangerous. You don`t know what they are going to try. Unless you want to have sex with the guy first time, don`t accept a dinner date.
Are you for real? You won't go to dinner on a first date? AND you think it's "dangerous"? That's kinda scary. Are you this defensive and paranoid in other areas of your life as well? | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 9:29:58 AM | I have to admit that reading this thread truly is discouraging. It seems that the bulk of the women quickly consider themselves traditionalists when it comes to dating yet in the same sentence advocate the virtues of equality. And that ladies, is hypocrisy to the n'th degree!
You wonder why men don't respect a woman who proclaims to be independent yet when it comes to the bill and dating, you become a traditionalist believing in chivalry. Well the reason men won't respect you is because hypocrites do not deserve respect! You justify you stance with the argument that women makes less than men. Although this is true in aggregate, it is not because of gender discrimination, it is because of occupational choices. And that fact has been proven over and over. So if you want respect, you have to earn it. And expecting a man to pay for dates is the wrong way to do this. Welcome to 2008!!! | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 9:30:49 AM | | no, it should be split down the middle, this is not 1950 anymore, when you go on dates now, take smaller bills and make sure your date knows the bill will be 50/50 or dutch..shows you the kind of men that are out there, not cool.. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 9:34:05 AM | ^^^exactly - why is that concept so difficult to get?!
Fantastic! Then with any further due, any man have the right to classify you as an escort and treat you accordingly. And then you wonder why men don't respect you? Classic!
While we may not agree with her thinking, no doubt there is a man out there willing to do this and even marry her.
As for whether I would accept a man paying for dinner? I would depending on the situation. I would not feel right accepting if I had no intentions of seeing him again, but if the situation were reversed, I can't say it would bother me that much to have paid for dinner. For me, it would be a case "oh well" (and it HAS happened where I paid for a date and never heard from him again, but I commented on it to one friend and that was the end of it, what's the use in whining about it?). I always expect to pay for mine and that IS where the problem lies, most men enjoy treating their date, but when it is expected, they DO not like it. Much as women do not like it when men "expect" sex. Different issue, same line of thinking.
Since women have not had to traditionally pay for men, the money issue is not such a sore spot for us, but for men it is, and I think that both sexes need to really "listen" to these forums and see where we are both coming from on these issues.
I've had relationships where in the beginning we paid half for everything, but as time went on, he would often pick up the check. I didn't pick up the check, but I bought him things and did little things for him. None of it was to "get" anything in return, it was done out of wanting to "give" and to see the other person's pleasure. I'm not sure why this concept is so difficult. I guess it's not for those who are not greedy and cheap. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 9:34:10 AM |
Men should just accept many women don't like paying for themselves - that's your argument?..wow..
Yes. That is my argument.
Why? Because we are talking about something which is not compulsory. Your whole object of taking a woman out is to show her how great life with you would be! She doesn't want a guy who is going to be mean, jealously guarding his 'pile' - she wants a generous and loving partner! At the end of the date she is perfectly free to walk away without a backward glance if she wants - all because of him being petty - and that is a total waste of time for all.
If you are seeking a companion in later life fine - things are different! But for most budding romeo's they want the lot, love, sex, vulnerability, loyalty - that is a big deal for a woman to give. The least you can do is pay for a date - it should only be a relatively small amount of money after all (see my previous post), and the subsequent rewards of the bigger picture could be substantial. The woman gambles with her heart - and it is her right to retreat if she thinks you are being petty and unnecessary. If you invite her out - then she has every right to assume that you will 'take care of it'.
Most women don't feel that they have anything to prove other than by being charming and attractive as a prospect. By the woman putting money into the date (which the man has organised) she is demonstrating to him that she doesn't think that he is worthy of organising it himself, or that she wants to persuade him in some way that she is worthy of him.
We all know that all things in the dating world are NOT equal. Women need to far more cautious of men's intentions than the other way around. Paying for a date is a good of gauging a man's interest because he will tend to put his money where his interest lays. It's not 100% because we all know there are wolves out there but it's usually a good start.
I say that if I turn up for a date, act nice and be attentive - the least he can do is pay - whatever the outcome (unless disasterous). | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 9:41:57 AM |
We all know that all things in the dating world are NOT equal. Women need to far more cautious of men's intentions than the other way around. Paying for a date is a good of gauging a man's interest because he will tend to put his money where his interest lays. It's not 100% because we all know there are wolves out there but it's usually a good start.
I can see where you are coming from here. I have heard of certain men who when they are ready to settle down, start going on dates and invest alot of money into it. Most of these men do end up finding someone. Whether it works or not remains to be seen.
That said, some men use money as a way to "get" things from women too, so my opinion is that you can't always be sure of a man's intentions based on the money issue - not in this day and age.
I dated a guy who didn't always pay for me, but then when he was dating someone else paid for everything. Now, was that his decision or hers? Was she that hot that she could get guys to pay for her?
Men do have a weakness when it comes to beautiful women, you guys cannot deny that. It's the way you're made. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 9:48:58 AM | most men enjoy treating their date,
I assume the vice versa is true otherwise its not much of a relationship.
I say that if I turn up for a date, act nice and be attentive - the least he can do is pay - whatever the outcome (unless disasterous).
Doesn't he do the same?
Men do have a weakness when it comes to beautiful women, you guys cannot deny that. It's the way you're made.
Only those ruled by their members and most men outgrow that phase by their 30's once women's looks start to fade. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 9:49:26 AM | | Keep it Simple.....meet for coffee and conversation...then you will find out if you are interested in persuing the relationship. Women who want the man to pay, date the man who wants to pay. Men who want the woman to pay, date the woman who wants to pay. Always be able to cover yourself of the first date. Never assume. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 9:51:50 AM |
Fantastic! Then with any further due, any man have the right to classify you as an escort and treat you accordingly. And then you wonder why men don't respect you? Classic!
While we may not agree with her thinking, no doubt there is a man out there willing to do this and even marry her.
Sure there is - it happens all the time. She is called his "eye candy" and becomes the "trophy wife," decoration for his life like the head of a deer mounted on the wall of his study, and yes, maybe she too has a splendid rack. (ha ha.) And she gets all the respect due to any prize found in a Crackerjack box. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 9:59:10 AM |
I say that if I turn up for a date, act nice and be attentive - the least he can do is pay - whatever the outcome (unless disasterous).
Doesn't he do the same?
Heh. She gives herself away by her choice of words. Take note of that word "act." She's not a real self-directed autonomous person, she's just an actor playing a role. Move on, guys. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 10:05:10 AM | | I NEVER pay . The guy should pay for at least the first few dates. I know this sounds old fashioned, but guys don't respect you if you offer to pay. I never even take out my wallet. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 10:06:25 AM | Most of these last pages seem a bit tedious. There would seemingly be 3 camps, making claims and counterclaims. Most of these posters seems to miss the key points.
On one side the men seem divided by those who pay and those who advocate dutch.
The other side here are women, who seem to split 4 to 1 on the side the man pays.
There are so many facets involved, coffee or drink, dinner or how close to who, costs or expectations.
One should remember we are talking about a first meet or date. Equality aside for a moment. Women will always enjoy the upper hand here with regard to dating. There are 7 men here for every woman. She will get more dates than you will. If 66% of men pay the first date, she may go out 3 times and only pay for 1 meal. Now lets take costs out of this as well.
Didn't we all come here to meet someone? All or most of us want to put our best foot forward. It is up to you to determine what that foot looks like. For the men I think it's fair to say you should expect to pay for the first date. After all you are not in a relationship yet, so quid pro quo does yet apply. Since the information you have is that the ladies expect you to pay in 80% of the cases, it is your choice to try dutch, full well knowing, it will probably result in no second date. As to you ladies, try to remember the paragraph above, you may have a dandy social life having 2 or 3 dates a week seeking your S.O., he has to go through the same process and depending on his circumstances may only do it once a week.
As to myself, I like to meet some women in a quiet place for a drink or coffee and see if there is mutual interest. Though when I have been chatting with someone I think there are tremendous interest on both sides, shared hobbies or interests, attraction. Then no I don't want to meet for coffee, I want to take her to dinner, to spend several hours together. Now if you share interests, are you saying even if there is zero chemistry, you would not enjoy a good meal and discussion with an attractive woman? I believe all are losing sight of the goal, meet someone interesting, form a bond, and leave this place or just stay for the forums. My 2 cents, Bob | |
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