| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 12:17:02 PM |
I swear that every date I ever went on, the man always paid. Even if I take out my wallet, they've insisted
thats because those men (and most men in general) who does that think that they are "obligated" to pay..and they want to buy the womans affection and attention.. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 12:20:41 PM | Like someone else said what's his return for the investment?
Will the second date consist of you cleaning his bathrooms and making dinner after that? I'm pretty traditional like that. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 12:28:23 PM |
Posted By: stringbeen on 7/6/2008 12:08:28 PM
Subject: Hi just had a date from hell....again
Message: I swear that every date I ever went on, the man always paid. Even if I take out my wallet, they've insisted. Even my dad pays for my meals when we go out to eat, if I offer to pay. It's a nice gesture. And I think (this may sound old school) that it's a very generous offer when a man pays for the date, especially the first. And if there needs to be a discussion before, it usually makes me not want to date him again.
Well, ahem, consider this. Maybe the man who insists on declining your offer to pay all or part of the bill is indeed "old school" in fact, you DO indeed compare him to your daddy. Are you grown up yet? Or, inside, are you still a helpless little girl needing a big brave patronizing male to take care of his little daughter? A substitute daddy to fill what's missing in an insecure overaged child's adult life?
Do you REALLY want an "old school" guy? If so, are you ready to scrub his shirts by hand on the washboard while fourteen rug rats crawl at your feet? He will be out in his Stanley Steamer. No thanks, I'm happy to live in the modern world and I think it's cool that we have penicillin and the internet.
As for that dude who absolutely INSISTS that only HE shall pay - does it occur to you that he may be insecure and desperate to prove his dominance because he is scared of equality with females?
Sigmund Freud describes the way a baby discovers that he or her can produce feces from his own body, or pickings from the nose, and then likes to spread it around, getting satisfaction from making an impact on the environment. An adult who is driven to smear his money around, says Freud, is acting out that infantile urge, not yet grown up. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 12:31:05 PM |
As for that dude who absolutely INSISTS that only HE shall pay - does it occur to you that he may be insecure and desperate to prove his dominance because he is scared of equality with females?
I would say that dude has low self esteem and is probably overcompensating for a small pecker. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 12:32:52 PM | /\/\/\/\/\
Speak for yourself. JD - you seem to fit the 'bitter' profile I stated earlier ... and ignored my point that dating is NOT compulsory. Actually, it's supposed to be FUN isn't it?
You (and your date) can walk away at any time in the early days ... and you can mutter all sorts of things to yourself as you do so. You clearly are not here for discussion with your lambasting.
If I was ever to experience a man who had your attitude on a first/second date - then there would be no others. You have a way of communicating which is demeaning and disrespectful to women. I cannot think why you are here. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 12:51:37 PM | I had to do a little research on the wage gap before I could respond but here goes... There's a website called wageproject.org where the reality of the wage gap is being continuously studied. They also have a calculator for figuring out what people make based on job, industry, gender and county. Here were my results:
You currently make 55% of what the average White Non-Hispanic Male makes with your same job title in the county you provided.
After adjusting for age, education, and industry, you currently make 53% of what your corresponding White Non-Hispanic Male coworker makes.
Now... if I'm making roughly half what a man doing the SAME thing I'm doing is making... I figure there's my 50% for dinner. He can buy. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 1:00:48 PM | ^^^^ IS that a joke or an excuse to be selfish? Even feminists and tv ads say its 81% of what men are making. 50% please give me a break.
If women made half and did the same work we would all hire men. If you can't negotiate that's your fault.
The wage gap is a myth. But lets say you are dating and there is a wage gap. The woman is a doctor and he's a teacher. Just because she makes less than male doctors should he pay despite the fact that he still makes less money ? No. So please compare your relative incomes instead of other people.
Some of Farrell's findings: Women are 15 times as likely as men to become top executives in major corporations before the age of 40. Never-married, college-educated males who work full time make only 85 percent of what comparable women earn. Female pay exceeds male pay in more than 80 different fields, 39 of them large fields that offer good jobs, like financial analyst, engineering manager, sales engineer, statistician, surveying and mapping technicians, agricultural and food scientists, and aerospace engineer. A female investment banker's starting salary is 116 percent of a male's. Part-time female workers make $1.10 for every $1 earned by part-time males.
(http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/leo031405.asp)
Now I feel angry women are earning more than me for the same work.
The point is we will never know who earns more. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 1:07:48 PM | | JD you're a student. You should know better than to post a reference to a biased site from 3 years ago. Try again sweetie... | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 1:10:22 PM | I had to do a little research on the wage gap before I could respond but here goes... There's a website called wageproject.org where the reality of the wage gap is being continuously studied. They also have a calculator for figuring out what people make based on job, industry, gender and county. Here were my results:
You currently make 55% of what the average White Non-Hispanic Male makes with your same job title in the county you provided.
After adjusting for age, education, and industry, you currently make 53% of what your corresponding White Non-Hispanic Male coworker makes.
I just did the same thing for my job, education level, and age. The average woman makes about 85% of what a man makes.
Now... if I'm making roughly half what a man doing the SAME thing I'm doing is making... I figure there's my 50% for dinner. He can buy.
Even if a man was making twice as much as you were, that's still no excuse not to offer to pay your portion of the bill. You shouldn't expect a man to pay just because he makes more money than you do. I made more money than many of the men that I have dated. They never expected me to pay the entire bill just because of that. Besides first dates should be relatively inexpensive so that both people can afford it. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 1:14:54 PM | | Well when I finish my MBA and things are more equal maybe I'll feel differently. Until then, I will keep on letting men buy me dinner if they want to because that's how we were both raised. I can't imagine living in a world where women try to act like they're equal to men. Thank GOD my mother raised me better than to think that a man could even come close to being my equal! LOL | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 1:21:17 PM | You should know better than to post a reference to a biased site from 3 years ago.
Its not a biased site. The same article was on ifeminism which also encourages the end of affirmative action for women. At least men are starting to get affirmative action in education and jobs now.
Like I said female doctor dates male teacher. She's making less than male doctors and he's making more than female teachers. Should he pay based on that? If you want to use income compare your income with the people's your dating (although its tacky). Unless you only date people from your company with the same job title, education, people skills, negotiation abilities and have confirmed he is making more than you then its fair for him to pay.
Well when I finish my MBA and things are more equal maybe I'll feel differently. Until then, I will keep on letting men buy me dinner if they want to because that's how we were both raised. I can't imagine living in a world where women try to act like they're equal to men. Thank GOD my mother raised me better than to think that a man could even come close to being my equal! LOL
What a selfish attitude. What's you contribution to the relationship? Your presence and sex right? What happened to 50/50? I hope you just meant the first date and you would start paying after you get your degree or after the first date. You seem to be just a user and don't believe in treating your dates like they are worth anything besides a wallet. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 1:30:51 PM | i always paid for my dates but i remember as a young man that women changed and wanted a more exciteing type guy .. well thats what you got and as i read you writeings it comes to me that you picked them . maybe its not them .
but girls who pay the bills aren,t to smart . brains are important to, but some people who think there smart aren,t .   <img src=http:/
/www.plentyoffish.com/smiles/icon_76.gif border=0> | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 1:55:33 PM |
What a selfish attitude. What's you contribution to the relationship? Your presence and sex right?
Well if men weren't willing to pay for those things then prostitutes would have to get real jobs,wouldn't they?
I've no quarrel with a first date or meeting being simple and inexpensive. I'm OK with paying my share,but I have to admit, barring some unusual circumstance, being expected to do so puts this new contact into "friend zone" until such time as I have a clearer picture for his dating motives. I will not under any circumstances pitch a fit over how the tab is handled, and that includes the "forgotten wallet" scenario. But "forgotten wallet" is going to be more closely evaluated before I get into any kind of significant involvement with him.
And if a guy insists on paying, but then does the disappearing act thing, (or I just really really CANNOT see the thing going anywhere) ...OH WELL. WTH am I supposed to do? Hunt him down so we can have a 2nd date so I can take MY turn at paying.
For the most part men I've dated or had relationships with had no problem paying for a the first few dates, and after that I INSISTED on being allowed reciprocate in the general classification of being "in kind" ( sex is for pleasure and expressing love, NOT a means of balancing the dating ledger).
Cindy O | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 1:56:12 PM | | LOL..is this a joke?. i have to laugh..what does "how much money anyone makes" have to do with this?..NOTHING..please no need to discuss who makes more than who..that is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT to this discussion..now lets stop talking about that please!! | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 2:16:42 PM |
What a selfish attitude. What's you contribution to the relationship? Your presence and sex right? What happened to 50/50? I hope you just meant the first date and you would start paying after you get your degree or after the first date. You seem to be just a user and don't believe in treating your dates like they are worth anything besides a wallet.
JD This whole thread seems to have devolved from what it originally started out as. And you seem to be incapable of posting without bringing your own biases to the table.
I am a very generous woman. I have done more than I probably should have of paying for dates or gifts or whatever for the men in my life. Heck my ex husband alone is proof of what a generous human being I am! LOL
However... I will repeat this for the umpteenth time... I have never had to pay for dinner on a first date. And I won't pay for dinner on a first date unless I'm doing my best to make a man understand that I NEVER want to hear from him again. I've never had to. I don't think it's right for a woman to have to. I think a gentleman will always offer to. And every man I've asked about this in the last 2 days has agreed with me that it's just not in our culture (our's being the Southern culture) to LET a woman pay on a first date. We (Southern women) are typically less likely to initiate a first date as well. It's just not what "we" do.
I would find this funny if it weren't so darned interesting to keep coming back to see what else you have to say.
And by the way... if ALL I had to offer to a man was my presence and sex?? He couldn't afford me... | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 2:24:12 PM | Here's a reason why this woman would indeed be a date from Hell:
Now... if I'm making roughly half what a man doing the SAME thing I'm doing is making... I figure there's my 50% for dinner. He can buy.
You see? When she is with you she does NOT recognize you as an individual human being. She judges you as a mere thing, a member of a class of objects, all of them allegedly making some certain income therefore (here the bad logic cuts in) YOU must be making more money than she is.
In any case, I think this whole discussion is tiresome and boring. If I am ever with a woman and what's going on in her mind is calculations about money then frankly I don't want to be there. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 2:29:47 PM |
... that's how we were both raised. I can't imagine living in a world where women try to act like they're equal to men. Thank GOD my mother raised me better than to think that a man could even come close to being my equal! LOL
...........................................................
Will somebody please change this child's diaper, and put that pacifier in her mouth - after all, that's how she was raised, right? It's going to be quite a while before she grows up and discovers that in the real world you can't always remain a dependent infant for your whole life, not even if you play the "poor little female" card. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 2:35:06 PM |
Will somebody please change this child's diaper, and put that pacifier in her mouth - after all, that's how she was raised, right? It's going to be quite a while before she grows up and discovers that in the real world you can't always remain a dependent infant for your whole life, not even if you play the "poor little female" card.
Spoken like a truly bitter man... | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 2:39:30 PM | [quote="]thats because those men (and most men in general) who does that think that they are "obligated" to pay..and they want to buy the womans affection and attention..
oh okay.....
Are you grown up yet? Or, inside, are you still a helpless little girl needing a big brave patronizing male to take care of his little daughter? A substitute daddy to fill what's missing in an insecure overaged child's adult life?
No I don't date older men, not attracted to that in the least.
...an insecure overaged child's adult life? Are you speaking about yourself?
...does it occur to you that he may be insecure and desperate to prove his dominance because he is scared of equality with females? No that doesn't "occur to me".
...Do you REALLY want an "old school" guy?... Nope, I am not attracted to "old" guys. I date younger men. They are more agile in bed.
...the way a baby discovers that he or her can produce feces from his own body, or pickings from the nose, and then likes to spread it around,..
A good reason that I do not date older men, like yourself.
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 2:50:47 PM | In this day and age due to your cohorts in the feminist movement rules have evolved just like human revolution. This time it did not evolve you demanded it. Pay Half And Shut Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 2:51:37 PM | If you measure generosity based on monetary windfalls, you truly are an escort and deserve to be treated accordingly! How in the world can you measure or gauge a man's ability to love, his generosity and personality based on his willingness to throw money at you?
You miss my point entirely. This is not about 'throwing' money all over the place. This is a special date with a special person, not one in a score in a week! If you find yourself haemorraging cash because your dating budget has gone out of control, you have two things to blame 1. yourself for not being more discerning with how many women you date 2. your choice of date.
There are too many men who start off in a reckless manner, lose money, don't get what they want ... and then spend the next few dates whining that they are not going to be 'taken for a ride'. Take more responsibility - take more control! There might be 'plenty of fish' but you are probably dating the wrong species.
In addition, an escort (so I have heard) would make you pay for the meal, drinks, and add a further fee for 'services'. Once the 'service' has been applied she would disappear from your life - or until the next 'business' transaction. If a man thinks that any woman who accepts a meal is an 'escort' then I can fully see why is unsuccessful at dating - he is a fool and has attitude issues towards women.
Ability to love through finance issues - of course I am not saying that! I am saying that him taking responsibility for the entire date is 'a good start'. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 2:53:13 PM | I'm not sure if there really is a right or wrong answer to first date and who should pay.
I think like so many other things, it's whatever the two of you are comfortable with.
But, if you have strong feelings one way or the other, it should definately be something you talk about BEFOREhand. Why just 'assume' you're on the same page? Why not find out? | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 2:54:00 PM | | In this day and age due to your cohorts in the feminist movement rules have evolved just like human revolution. This time it did not evolve you demanded it. Pay Half And Shut Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 2:54:26 PM | In this day and age due to your cohorts in the feminist movement rules have evolved just like human revolution. This time it did not evolve you demanded it. Pay Half And Shut Up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 2:58:06 PM | This thread has become such a joke...
I am a southern gentleman. I always pay on dates - no excuses - no exceptions - except ONE. If I'm out with a woman and she INSISTS on paying for her half, I will of course allow that - but it almost NEVER happens.
In my opnion, it is insulting and demeaning to a woman and to any potential relationship you may wish you have with her to take any other position.
God loves men and women equally, so that makes us equal in my book. That said, we also have different responsibilities and different needs. I believe most women need to feel cherished, loved, and secure. Men have those needs too, but they are usually not as much of a priority as they are for women.
When I take a lady out for a nice dinner, and I make as little issue out of picking up the check as possible, it shows I respect her, and that I appreciate her spending time getting to know me. That said, I STILL pick up the check, even on a BAD date. Why? Because I am a gentleman, and that is what a gentleman does.
No - picking up the check does not mean she OWES me a thing. I don't care if I bought dinner in EUROPE! That is a ridiculous and manipulative argument!
Some of you men out there really need to get real. You sit there and argue for women's lib like Gloria Alread! All just because you're too freaking CHEAP to buy a lady dinner! Man - THAT attitude is just going to have them lined up around the block! 
Mark
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