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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 5:26:02 PM | John - the women's movement is real convenient for you isn't it? 
If you lived 500 years ago, and your wife was in bed having your child, would you let her and your other children starve because she wasn't "pulling her weight", or would you get your ass out there and hunt something?
Mark
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 5:27:08 PM | | Giving and money are the same thing? mmmm I give in many ways when I am dating someone, and it is not about money...I would much rather a man do something for me that was sincere and thoughful that did not cost anything rather than something that was expensive and meant nothing....many of us are not princesses and/or gold diggers, and we still are thrilled when men offer to pay and show chivalrous and gentlemanly behaviors. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 5:29:19 PM |
If you lived 500 years ago, and your wife was in bed having your child, would you let her and your other children starve because she wasn't "pulling her weight", or would you get your ass out there and hunt something?
Are we living 500 years ago? 500 years ago knights were supposed to be chivalrous to noble woman yet were allowed to rape and run over normal women. 500 years ago a man inherited his woman's property. 500 years ago women had no say in many decisions at home. all that changed yet a man paying didn't. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 5:32:26 PM | Ok - let's put it another way - TODAY your wife becomes disabled and can no longer work. Would you dump her sorry ass for not pulling her weight? After all - the ledger sheet HAS to be kept in balance, doesn't it? She HAS to contribute EXACTLY what you do, or she's a BAD woman - right?
Mark
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 5:34:10 PM | What's with the hypothetical situations? There's a difference between being able to pull your weight and not doing it and not being able to. Do you not understand that?
And no I wouldn't leave her just as I wouldn't expect her to leave me if I became disabled. And you really want to start a thread on how many men have been left because they did become disabled. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 5:38:43 PM | | John 2 things, there are alot of guys who have been burned. Bad relationships, users, divorce. They come out bitter and disillusioned by those experiences. Now as to you NEVER having had a woman express gratitude, I can't believe it. After an evening of good conversation, good food and interest on both sides, I can safely say I have NEVER NOT HAD a woman say "thank you for a lovely evening". Even when there was zero chemistry, major mistake, they would express something like "sorry it didn't work out, thanks for trying" or some such comment. You have to check your selection process if ALL the women your seeing don't do what mine did. Bob | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 5:39:54 PM | "And no I wouldn't leave her just as I wouldn't expect her to leave me if I became disabled. And you really want to start a thread on how many men have been left because they did become disabled. "
Good - I'm sure any potential mate would be GLAD to know you feel that way... That is admirable... It shows that to you, love is more important than money...
Now - which conveys that character trait in you - paying - or arguing over the check?
Mark
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 5:40:13 PM |
like i said its never been appreciated of me paying for dinner or ever reciprocated in anyway.
Then there's something broken in your woman choosing system dude.
You used the phrase so MANY times in this thread "women scoffing down free food" that I think there's just plain something effed up in your head.
And your theory about compensation/small d*cks. Utter rubbish, from my personal experiences and what I've been told by female friends.
You are tired of being the one on whom the entire burden of sustaining the relationship in terms of effort and finances? Why do you keep finding yourself in this same scenario? Why do you keep ending up with women who "scoff down free food", who expect gifts, who look to you to make all the plans and provide all the entertainment, and show not an ounce of appreciation/reciprocation, just use you and dump you? Do you see that the constant in these scenarios is YOU?? Are YOU compensating for some shortcoming? Seems to me, if you were a guy truly worth keeping, these women would make some kind of effort (BEYOND spreading their legs) to show their appreciation,and want to impress you!
Hey, are you maybe continually trying to date way above your league??
Cindy O | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 5:44:02 PM | Good - I'm sure any potential mate would be GLAD to know you feel that way... That is admirable... It shows that to you, love is more important than money...
Now - which conveys that character trait in you - paying - or arguing over the check?
Mark
I said i pay for a few dates but it should be mutual give and take after the few dates. Am I so wrong for believing I deserve that?
1. Never come to a date empty handed (i.e. Flowers,Candy, or something)
Allrite this is bs. If anything it should be the other way around. The one who is paying is the host. You bring a gift for the host not your guest. That's just bad etiquette.
See all the double standards? You bring your guest a gift? A free meal isn't enough but now a gift?
Swamp i dated a woman who made 150 times as much as me and i was still expected to pay and yes you read that right 150 times. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 5:46:07 PM |
So why did feminists decide that it should be changed
So they could get equal pay, and rights, in the work force, so they could do jobs that were only "men" jobs, with equal pay. I couldn't do a lot of those jobs, but I know plenty of women that can, so they should be paid and treated equally. So women could walk up to a bar and order their own drinks, instead of a man having to do it for them, so girls at school could wear pants, instead of dresses or skirts, and they had to be at a certain length also. So they didn't just have to be stay at home moms, but pursue other things as well. Need I go on?
like i said its never been appreciated of me paying for dinner or ever reciprocated in anyway. so why should i have to do it? a lot of men feel this way
Well, that is sad. Again, maybe you need to take a look at who you are dating.
you just contradicted yourself
Highly doubtful. Women usually give a lot of themselves, the women that I know and associate with anyway. Maybe you need to think about what kind of women you are hanging with.
Okay, you got me there, I don't think men should have to pay for every date. But the first couple of dates are a little different. IMO But then again, I've never dated anyone that expected, or wanted me to pay. I pick sensitive, and caring guys.
So you just said you never pay and yet claimed you were the greater giver
You twisted my words a little. Or maybe you just don't understand the difference in giving, and money? No, I don't pay for dates, but I am a great giver when I'm dating or in a relationship. DUDE, it's NOT all about money. It's respect. And that dreaded word... courtship and/ or dating. Making someone feel special, and believe me, if you find a woman worth anything, they will make you feel sooo special. They will tell you thank you, I appreciate you, love you, and even though you are an a sshole I love you anyway. lol... And you will say, even though you are a b itch I love you anyway. Do you get that at all. I know that' s kind of crude, but hopefully you get my point. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 5:47:56 PM | | thats is kinda messed up. Its the first date, i think guy should pay for at least first 10 if he gets them then they can split the bill or what ever. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 5:51:17 PM | From a man's perspective who grew up with 4 woman in the house. 1. Never come to a date empty handed (i.e. Flowers,Candy, or something) 2. You open the car door. 3.You ALWAYS pay for the first date. I think a woman should only pay if the date is her plan and she is trying to do something special for you. But at the same time all most men want is for you to attempt to pay then he can say no I got it. It shows that you are not a gold digging hussy!!
If that is the date from hell I don't know what to call the date I had where she brought her gay friend and his "brother" to the bar. Then as she was eating licked the sauce off her arm several times. And this is a woman with a Masters in education!! | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 5:51:53 PM | that is not a date from hell. maybe a presumptive or slightly rude guy. And a cheapskate. did you agree to go dutch? Shouldn;t you have spoken up and said are you going to pay your half or buy me dinner? hmmm? Be honest! sometimes I go dutch on a first date ebcuas eI don;t know if its going to turn out well. why should I risk $50-$100 if I am not going to get a second date? i tend to talk to the girl for about a half hour ebfore the date. Get to know her and see if she;s affectionate. If we are kisisng I will usually pay for everything. If she; is a coldfishor a prude. then I go dutch. and you never know when you meet someone. sometiems you just click and during those times I pay. Ionly go dutch if I am low on cash or am unsure of my date. unsure meaning I skeptical her feelings for me, wondering where its going, inner feelings, and how atracted i feel to her. The movies will cost about $35 and dinner is about $50-$100. Why should the guy always pay. Its an investment. And sometimes you have to speculate whether you are going to lose your money and give a girl af ree meal only to get dumped at the end of the night or the next day ebcuase she is not over her previous relationship. So many factors. But this is not a date from hell. I have ahd dates from hell!
Dates who ditched me int he movie theater. Dates who would not get off their cell phone and one who even ahd her violent ex-boyfriend pick her up. Ditching both me and her best friend on a double date with my friend. i have had dates who would make out with me and give me a handjob/blowjob only to never call me again or return my calls or break up with me becuase they are not over a previous relationship. Or just can't handle being with someone or are sexually confused. Too much drama! | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 5:52:10 PM | "I said i pay for a few dates but it should be mutual give and take after the few dates. Am I so wrong for believing I deserve that?"
No. There we're probably closer to agreeing now... At some point that is reasonable...
Now personally, I usually do tend to continue to pay. The reason for that is because I usually earn a lot more than the women I date. At some point they usually realize that too. Well, if we both know I earn a lot more, I would prefer to continue to do that because it sends the message that I understand money is a little tighter for her, and I'm willing to maybe contribute a little more to the relationship to help offset that... Nothing wrong with that either... It all boils down to the kind of message you want to send... Unfortunately money does talk... I'd rather mine say, "He likes you more than me" :)
Mark
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 6:00:39 PM | OP
Not sure where you found this guy but -
If I ask a lady out to dinner - that means I will pay unless I ask if you will go dutch (that doesnt happen much).
First meetings are to get to know someone for me anyways - coffee or lunch is nice. I get nervous on a first meeting and I dont want a lot of expectations getting in the way of talking.
Cheers | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 6:10:30 PM | | Brownbear313, sorry you had that rather odd experience on the date. I have a Masters in Education and have not and hopefully will never act like the woman you mentioned in your post. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 6:12:20 PM | "Then either you're not very smart or those women didn't care about you. How could they let someone who makes less money than them pay? They were just using you. I think you have confused being a gentleman with being whipped. There is a difference."
I'm actually very smart, but thats another subject. No, they weren't using me. I WANTED to pay the bill. I wouldn't feel right not paying it. I insisted. I didn't care if they made more money than me, because thats the way I am. You must be a cheap **stard. As for being whipped, I'm the least whipped man you'll ever meet.
A relationship may be 50/50, but I sure as hell pay the first few months of the dinner bill. Also, there isn't much of a relationship on the first date.
-Wil | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 6:30:05 PM | | Well, now I can honestly say that I have never had a date, that I wasn't treated to the date. So I guess I have been blessed not to have dated the gentlemen you have had the misfortune to date. Believe me, even the ones you may ever date again, if they are truly a gentleman, will pay for the date, if they have asked you out. Even if you have asked them out most men I have found will pick up the bill. Good luck and maybe go to a less expensive place on the first date. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 6:52:13 PM | Let me explain a few things here. You may think you are right, John, about it being 50/50 and equal and all that nice stuff, thats great. You may think people like me are chumps, and thats fine. But let me tell you a few things I've noticed in my lifetime :
I've learned a long time ago how to act. I've been taught the correct way to act out in public, how to treat people, and how to consider other people's feelings towards you. The way you act is a big reflection on you in other people's minds. Paying the bill has nothing to do with being used, with being a chump, or being chauvanistic. The reason you should pay the bill is that you may be showing off a characteristic that is considered VERY bad in MANY aspects of life - being cheap. I'm not cheap. I've been raised not to be cheap, being cheap is a very bad trait in a person.
I don't hang out with cheap people. I will not ask them to come out for drinks or to go to dinner or to go to a show. I go so far as to not even be friendly with people who are cheap. I despise cheap people. I hate when people say "I only drank 2 beers, I'm not throwing in 15 bucks". They are a pain to go out with, they are a pain to deal with, and their cheapness is something that permeates everything they do in life. I'm not the only person who feels this way, I've heard people talk about other people and they WILL say things like "God I can't stand that guy he's so cheap". Is this right? Maybe not. But I know its not something I want to be, and not something I will ever be. I'm not saying you should spend money to the point of hurting your finances, but really, truly - there is nothing wrong with paying the bill no matter how your sick twisted mind says you should "split it". Lol. Thats so laughable.
This reminds me a few nights ago. I was telling someone how they need to talk to their brother and encourage him to work on his social skills. They asked what I meant, and I said "Well, he's almost 30 years old, he has no girlfriends, he has no friends, he doesn't go out, and he pretty much acts like a child". This is the point of where the conversation didn't go too well. The person was slightly offended by my comments, and said "well, not everyone is like you, you know you aren't the perfect person either" and I replied that I 100% agreed, by NO way am I perfect. BUT - I was telling them an opinion from the outside that they couldn't see. Their brother is cheap. He is UNGODLY cheap. He is 28 years old and has 100,000 dollars saved up. Yes, you read that right. The guy makes 60k a year. You know how hard it is to save up that much money?
He has no friends, no girlfriend, really nothing except his job and his family. By no means is there anything wrong with that. The REAL issue here is that the way he feels about money - him being cheap - permeates into everything he does in life. This, in turn, is affecting everything that surrounds him. I firmly beleive this is why he "is the way he is".
I could be wrong. My opinion wasn't taken too well, obviously, so I let it drop. I only offerred it because I cared about the situation, not because I wanted to be critical of the person because really, I coudln't care less. His cheapness didn't affect me either way.
This whole story is to make a point. You may nto be able to see what you are doing, or how you portray yourself to the outside world. Perception really is reality. If a man doesn't pay for the first meal, I consider him cheap. If a man doesn't leave a tip, I think he's also cheap. Sure, he may have his reasons, but the first thing that comes to my mind is "cheap **stard".
If a girl tells me she went out on a first date with a guy, and she tells me they split the bill, I say "don't go out with that guy, he's cheap". I'm usually right.
John - You are cheap. Deal with it.
-Wil | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 6:56:32 PM | Read the rest of the thread. And you know there is such a thing as a cheap woman. cheapness is not attractive in either gender,
and i've had female friends, sisters , aunts tell me if you're paying past the third date dump her ass. that a woman who doesn't want to treat you out will likely just be out for your money. she'll make a bad wife and especially a bad mother so you see it goes both ways. still don't know why only men are expected to be generous while women are not. Never knew generoisty was a male only quality. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 7:16:27 PM | I don't think you are seeing this the right way.
I don't pay for every single date. I don't pay for every single thing. I really like it when the girl offers - but I won't accept. I pay for dinner. If the woman says "Hey, let me pick up dessert", I will agree. If she wants to buy coffee, I will agree. If after the 3rd date she wants to "pick up the check", then I may consider it, and I may let her even pay it. But, in general, I will pay for the meal. Later on down the road (say a month to 6 months) we can split it if the girl wants. But in general, I go out with the intention of paying. If I feel as if the girl is really using me for every bill, then I will probably never talk to her again. I don't do it to the point of idiocy.
One time a night out was planned for my birthday. The girl rented a hotel room in the city and we were going to spend a night out to dinner and then go relax. It was a nicely planned evening (this was maybe 2 months into the relationship) and I was looking forward to it (and not because of the room. Well, not totally, anyway). I was 22 and working, she was still finishing school. The bill came, and I paid. She insisted on paying, and I said that was nice of her, but I didn't want her to be strapped up because she wasn't working yet. I was very grateful she wanted to pay for it, but the 150 dollars for dinner would have hurt her much more than it would have hurt me. So, I paid for dinner on my own birthday. I was working, making 600 dollars a week or so, and I didn't want her to be hurt financially by spending so much money on a night out (she was making about 800 dollars a month at this point, so this night was literally costing her half of her monthly income). I was touched that she would give up so much to treat me to a night out.
Some people might think I'm a chump for that. I sure as hell don't.
-Wil | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 7:21:02 PM | | John, in view of what you said about paying I don't think your cheap. Now I don't know about the advise the women in your life gave you, they maybe right or expressed poorly a correct concept. Generous women are great, or I should say women who have a generous trait in addition to other things are great. You never want to date self centered woman/man, it is a no win situation, just like a cheater, user, liar etc. Bad people, bad traits are not the ones to start a relationship with. None of us here started the way dating is done, maybe it will evolve, maybe not. Though you must decide, the rules being what they are, people having done things a certain way, have created the dating world you are in. You can partcipate or be selective with regard to dutch and eliminate 70% of your potential mates. You are correct though, in wanting a woman with a good heart and who is generous, loving, atune to your needs and desires. A woman who thinks of you in ways you can't even imagine. Now given that discription, you would just like me pay for 10 dates without thinking twice. Unfortunately, as the saying goes that women use "you have to kiss many frogs to find your prince", so it also seems we must do many first and second dates to find that woman of substance. John as an aside I shared details with you, so you know there are generous women out there, especially in NYC. Bob | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 7:23:54 PM | | I like the first date to be a meet and greet free thing like a walk in the park if he is hard up for cash. It should not sour the whole date OP. Go on dates that do not cost a thing here in Denver we have free Jazz live in the parks I can meet the guy there then go home thinking "I liked him" or "Not for me" with out the bother of who pays what. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 8:31:48 PM |
I like the first date to be a meet and greet free thing like a walk in the park if he is hard up for cash.
Thanks for bringing this up again along with a couple of other people; the issue was about the first date and the merit of buying things as the primary means to impress the other person. And like you and several people said earlier, most complications can be avoided by doing something simple where you can focus on one another's personality instead of the venue. | |
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| Hi just had a date from hell....again
Posted: 7/6/2008 8:47:46 PM | | If you're too broke to pay for a coffee and a light snack, you're too late to date. What happened to gentlemen being gentlemen. After you're seeing each other exclusively is soon enough for a lady to start treating her boyfriend from time to time. | |
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