| 12 year old that hates her father
Posted: 9/15/2008 6:35:50 PM | does he only show up when he has a new girlfriend? it might be a ploy to make himself look better in order to 'catch' the girl...my youngests father was like that, among the other things like player-really,-compulsive liar, borderline personality disorder and bi-polar disorder....anyways. he did the same thing. when a new girl came along, everything was about his daughter, he'd make it seem like he did all this stuff, he'd leave me to go 'spend time with his daughter' and he'd go home after he'd leave me and never even so much as call her. she's 6. then, after the newness of the relationship wore off, the niceness did and his 'visits' with his daughter became non-existant because he 'got' the girl. and then when he wasn't 'seeing' anyone, the daughter was non-existant unless he was extremely bored and had NOTHING to do. (bar wasn't open and neither was the local whore...ex: his 'friend')
**sorry to go on about the situation. im just giving my experience, and thinking that maybe he's kind of the same way.
XOXO | |
|
| 12 year old that hates her father
Posted: 9/16/2008 5:56:51 AM | Otherwise as to how to handle the situation - its important that the parent has it together. The child needs to know that - that their universe has some at least semi solid point. So going on about my mistake this and that - I dont see a point in it
There's SOME validity in what you say if it is a very young child and they can't comprehend much. But, a TWELVE year old is soon to be an adult and this is a crucial time to be teaching life lessons. There is NO need to sugarcoat situations. YOU even say it YOURSELF!
The child is intelligent mature enough at the age of 12 to view it their own way. You're not telling your child ANYTHING harmful by telling them that their dad is a loser and it was a mistake to choose him as her father. Would you rather she learn the lesson of 'choose your husband wisely' by screwing up like mom?? Isn't a LOT smarter to show her the wrong way so she doesn't do it herself?? Don't you think she'll be JUST smart enough to go, "Hey, I don't want to put MY kids thru the he!! I've been put through. I'm not picking a loser like Mom did!" | |
|
| 12 year old that hates her father
Posted: 9/16/2008 6:34:44 AM |
so I stated mine tyvm... you state yours but dont you dare attack me like that
I didn't "attack" you. I asked you legitimate questions that deserve a legitimate response. | |
|
| 12 year old that hates her father
Posted: 9/16/2008 9:56:18 AM | Um Truly single....
Why are you in a forum for single parents?
You don't have a child, Don't want to date anyone with child or children, and seem to like to argue more than help.
So is it a case of the no life low life? | |
|
| 12 year old that hates her father
Posted: 9/16/2008 10:52:42 AM | | Trulysingle, at 12 years of age, a child is not an almost adult. They DO need to know their parents are competent. If i was a 12 year old and my mom would tell me what you suggest - "I am an idiot and your dad is a loser and it was a mistake to be with him" - it would not exactly make me feel great and it does directly imply the child is a mistake too. Mind you - who wants to hear that from their mum at any age? The child is already in distress by her dad's lack of interest and now you suggest the mum "helps" by saying things like this. Where do I say there is no need to sugarcoat situations? One should certainly not lie, but they should not talk badly about others either. Especially as the child already hates him - how is your advice going to achieve anything? As for learning lessons - we all learn lessons constantly and only realise this after the "learning" situation is over and we are allowed to process it with some distance. It's life. We have to make choices all the time and it's not always obvious what the outcome will be. You know nothing about the OP I presume and yet you claim it was obvious that she was making a mistake getting together with her childs dad. How can you claim such things when you dont know the person or situation. And where exactly did the mum "screw up" as you put it? | |
|
| 12 year old that hates her father
Posted: 9/16/2008 11:22:40 AM |
If i was a 12 year old and my mom would tell me what you suggest - "I am an idiot and your dad is a loser and it was a mistake to be with him" - it would not exactly make me feel great
Why would it make you feel bad because your parent admits they were human?? And secondly, why are people in this culture so worried about making people feel "good" when they give advice or instruct?? That's one main reason many parents can't rear children, properly, because they're SOOoo worried about their kids "feeling bad" if they discipline them.
and it does directly imply the child is a mistake too.
It does NO such thing. That's your misguided inference. You're telling your child that you picked the wrong guy to be her father. You're not saying ANYTHING, or inferring, anything poorly about her.
You know nothing about the OP I presume and yet you claim it was obvious that she was making a mistake getting together with her childs dad. How can you claim such things when you dont know the person or situation.
She described the situation. It's not hard at all to diagnose a situation, such as this. ASSUMING the OP is telling the truth, then all of the things she describes about her ex CLEARLY shows what a loser he is. THUS, it's very easy to figure out that he was always like this, even before she knew him. People do not become THIS narcissistic in a short amount of time. They've always been this way.
And where exactly did the mum "screw up" as you put it?
She chose to have children with him. She either knew he was like this but married him anyway OR she didn't take the time to figure it out. | |
|
| 12 year old that hates her father
Posted: 9/16/2008 11:35:39 AM | You are still not providing any concrete basis for your claims - you have merely guessed how things were based on your way of thinking. She described very little of the situation for your to be able to jump to the conclusions you have. You are saying it was obvious but you dont say how.
If you have to ask why it is important not to make a child feel bad when they are already feeling shit, then you are really missing compassion and empathy chips.
There is a difference between showing you are a human and saying you are a failure.
And surely you know how it works - sperm and egg and all that - there is no such thing as picking wrong father - with another guy, it would be a different child.
And the most important thing is what the mum does now - what sort of relationship she builds with her daughter. The father is dysfunctional and she needs to compensate for that. The daughter already figured what hes like and that hes a shit father - why disect the negatives - would it not be much better to build something better now?
Life is not about avoiding doing anything in case you get it wrong. The success is getting up each time you get knocked down. | |
|
| 12 year old that hates her father
Posted: 9/16/2008 12:03:59 PM |
You are still not providing any concrete basis for your claims - you have merely guessed how things were based on your way of thinking.
LOL, the OP has CLEARLY described how he hasn't been there for his daughter! If THAT isn't a CLEAR description of a loser then PLEASE tell me what is.
If you have to ask why it is important not to make a child feel bad when they are already feeling shit, then you are really missing compassion and empathy chips.
Because the truth is needed here and the truth isn't always pretty. Besides, this truth shouldn't make her feel any worse than she feels. If anything it will make her feel better because Mom will be owning her part. There will be some clarity in all of this mess and it will help her.
And surely you know how it works - sperm and egg and all that - there is no such thing as picking wrong father - with another guy, it would be a different child.
You don't know that and I don't know that. Again, you're making a lot of inference here. Regardless, mom isn't saying ANYTHING about her daughter, you're assuming that just because her child would be wrapped in a different package that it wouldn't be HER. That's a LOT of assuming.
The daughter already figured what hes like and that hes a shit father - why disect the negatives - would it not be much better to build something better now?
Life is not about avoiding doing anything in case you get it wrong. The success is getting up each time you get knocked down.
And this thinking is the irrational PC/ New Age way of dealing with situations-- you can't say ANYTHING bad because when you say anything negative then it's harmful.
I'm thinking her daughter has been put through enough that a few more nasty truths can only do her good. | |
|
amg72
|
Joined: 8/29/2008
Msg: 84 | |
| 12 year old that hates her father
Posted: 9/16/2008 1:05:25 PM | OP
Ignore the trolls....
As a child anytime you put down the parent you put them down because they can't differentiate it at this age.
It probably will not do you any good to even tell her father what she says. Most likely he will not believe it, think you put her up to it, or not care.
Chances are she doesn't hate him but is let down and confused. I would never say anything negative about him to her or in front of her. I also wouldn't justify his behavior but just say you don't know why he acts like this but it has nothing to do with her. Also don't speak for his feelings just yours and you can back them up with action. Let her know it is ok to be confused and she can talk to you but just listen don't build up or put down. As time goes on she will learn on her own and then she will at least know that she had a good parent who supported her and never put her in the middle.
Best of luck .... | |
|
| 12 year old that hates her father
Posted: 9/17/2008 6:52:34 AM |
Chances are she doesn't hate him but is let down and confused.
SURE she hates him, rightfully so(assuming that everything the OP has stated is true). The way he's crapped all over her it's understandable.
I would never say anything negative about him to her or in front of her. I also wouldn't justify his behavior but just say you don't know why he acts like this but it has nothing to do with her. Also don't speak for his feelings just yours and you can back them up with action.
You're PARTIALLY right here. Don't ever say anything DEROGATORY about him but if something is "need to know" then it's OK to say something NEGATIVE, if it's the truth. In this case it's imperative that mom tell her daughter that dad is selfish. His priorities are on himself and they should be on HER. Then you tell her, "Learn from this and don't EVER put yourself before your kids.... also learn that when you don't choose your husband WISELY then you'll set your kids up for the kind of pain I've put you through. Learn from my mistake and don't do that to yourself or your children!"
Let her know it is ok to be confused and she can talk to you but just listen don't build up or put down.
WHY would she come to you?? You don't have any answers. You won't judge, nor say anything negative. All you are is a sounding board. She could talk to her clueless best friend and get THAT, plus her friend will give her poor advice of an inexperienced teen.
As time goes on she will learn on her own and then she will at least know that she had a good parent who supported her and never put her in the middle.
WHY would you want your child to have to experience things the hard way, like you did?? That's what your job as PARENT is-- instruct and discipline! | |
|
amg72
|
Joined: 8/29/2008
Msg: 86 | |
| 12 year old that hates her father
Posted: 9/17/2008 9:58:05 AM | My parents are still married so I did not learn this the hard way.... Rather I put myself in counseling to better cope with very similar circumstances and to figure out how to minimize the damage to my kids and prevent myself from repeating my mistakes. Truly, while I appreciate your attempt to correct me, the advice given was the same provided to me in counseling by a professional with years of experience not from someone who read a child psych book...... so I will go with his.
Also, OP, let me clarify my intent was not for you just to be a sounding board..... Rather I meant do not justify his behavior because you are trying to minimize her pain and do not critisize him or continue the negative cycle. However,unlike the clueless bff you can still teach on your own values and make very clear what is acceptable without doing either.
I won't forget when my son got in trouble at his dad's for telling him something was "absolutely unacceptable". He learned the lesson without me putting down the man but the behavior in a different context. We then had to discuss that while not right what his father did and while his behavior was unacceptable he cannot parent his father. He can see the consequences it has had and if he doesn't want his kids to go through that then he will have to make better choices as an adult. Kids can learn without being encouraged to hate and put down.
Believe it or not Truly, I point out my mistakes all of the time as life lessons to my kids. However, there is a difference between telling them they are suffering because I picked a selfish mate and encouraging to choose wisely. I can teach them to know who someone is to listen with their eyes not ears without putting down their dad and myself. I also want to teach my kids we all make mistakes but to learn from them without them being afraid to make one because they will be a moron or selfish. They can insert their own negative and derogatory adjectives in regards to their dad and I won't correct them or tell them not to feel that way but they do not need to hear me put him down. Also putting down the other parent is called parent alienation and often backfires down the road.
It is also our job as parents to TEACH our children to make good decisions on their own not force our opinions on them and continue to make them pay for our bad past decisions by continiung to put them in the middle now. JMHO,what you are suggesting will never let anyone heal and move on but reinforce bitterness and hard feelings indefinately.
 | |
|
| 12 year old that hates her father
Posted: 9/17/2008 12:30:01 PM |
My parents are still married so I did not learn this the hard way
Of course you "learned" the hard way! You ended up divorced, with kids, so you didn't learn from others, otherwise you wouldn't BE HERE.
Truly, while I appreciate your attempt to correct me, the advice given was the same provided to me in counseling by a professional with years of experience not from someone who read a child psych book...... so I will go with his.
All that I, or any other professional in this field, provide is perspective. So, for you to be SO monumentally worried about someones' credentials, rather than your own common sense in analyzing advice, says a lot about your reasoning skills.
I can teach them to know who someone is to listen with their eyes not ears without putting down their dad and myself.
You listen too much to the Dr. Phil types and modern psyche-culture types. Pointing out someone's faults is NOT putting them down. It's a fact. If you were to put a bunch of nasty adjectives in front of it THEN you would be "putting him down". And even then it's not as BAD as "they" point it out to be if your base point is true(your dad is selfish).
It is also our job as parents to TEACH our children to make good decisions on their own not force our opinions on them and continue to make them pay for our bad past decisions by continiung to put them in the middle now.
Politically Correct Psyche has corrupted your thinking. Your idea of "forcing opinions" is what parents USED to call "teaching lessons" to your children. But, that's not acceptable in today's society because sometimes you have to be NEGATIVE when you discipline and teach those life lessons. And today's psyches will tell you that "negative" = "bad". | |
|
| 12 year old that hates her father
Posted: 9/17/2008 1:39:21 PM | All that I, or any other professional in this field, provide is perspective. So, for you to be SO monumentally worried about someones' credentials, rather than your own common sense in analyzing advice, says a lot about your reasoning skills.
Oh wait a second, I didn't realize that you where a proffesional in the field as you stated above. So does that mean you are accredited and a practicing proffesional? So you also now admit that you are offering a perspective, yet you consistantly talk as if yours is the only correct perspective. Yet anyone in your proffesion should know there are many perspectives, and no one perspective is correct for all things. | |
|
| 12 year old that hates her father
Posted: 9/17/2008 1:45:52 PM | | Truly single you really are obnoxious. You will be enjoying your true singleness for very long time i dare say - bet you dont have friends either as no one can put up with you. People cant be bothered with you after a few times because you just claim everybody is wrong without having any sound reasoning and when you are cought out with faulty logic, you decide to not to answer those points. | |
|
amg72
|
Joined: 8/29/2008
Msg: 90 | |
| 12 year old that hates her father
Posted: 9/17/2008 1:51:26 PM | Thank you for your perspective! How could I have not realize earlier that you are spot on! I didn't even know myself that I was monumentally worried by your lack of credentials until you told me. Now I will go cry over all the lessons I learned the hard way since my parents failed me. Then I will tell my kids I am an idiot that ruined my and their lives because they didn't teach me better just as all the other single parents here should.
Thanks!!!  | |
|
| 12 year old that hates her father
Posted: 9/18/2008 9:21:29 AM |
Oh wait a second, I didn't realize that you where a proffesional in the field as you stated above.
I never said I was, or was not, a professional in the field. Again, you're jumping to irrational conclusions with no evidence. And I ask AGAIN, 'what difference does it make whether I'm accredited or not?
Yet anyone in your proffesion should know there are many perspectives, and no one perspective is correct for all things.
So, how am I offering my perspective any different than any professional you'll run into? They're going to tell you what you should do, just like I have. | |
|
| 12 year old that hates her father
Posted: 9/18/2008 9:46:13 AM | I never said I was, or was not, a professional in the field. Again, you're jumping to irrational conclusions with no evidence. And I ask AGAIN, 'what difference does it make whether I'm accredited or not?
What you had stated was " I, or any other professional...." which means either you are a professional, or seem to think of yourself as one to put yourself on par with other professionals.
Why does it matter? That is the exact question a person who is not a professional but who thinks of himself on par with one would ask. Interesting.
So, how am I offering my perspective any different than any professional you'll run into? They're going to tell you what you should do, just like I have.
WRONG! A professional will make suggestions, they will never TELL you what to do! They will acknowledge that they do not have all of the answers. They would encourage discussion, and inquire into thought processes, not shoot your thoughts down and say you are in denial. If a person is truly in denial then the professional would help that person come to that conclusion themselves. Not brow beat them with their idea of what is right. Do you get it now? Do you get why every one is taking exception with what you are saying and how you are saying it? You seem to think you are not an equal in this discussion but higher than everyone else. That we must take your suggestion with out question. You are not willing to discuss your position regarding its merits or flaws. How is this conductive to a discusion in a forum? How is this different than you standing on a soap box and preaching your "gospel"? | |
|
| 12 year old that hates her father
Posted: 9/18/2008 10:00:33 AM |
What you had stated was " I, or any other professional...." which means either you are a professional, or seem to think of yourself as one to put yourself on par with other professionals.
Wrong assumption.
A professional will make suggestions, they will never TELL you what to do! They will acknowledge that they do not have all of the answers.
I never claimed to have all of the answers. Just answers to the OP's, and your, questions. Again, wrong assumption.
If a person is truly in denial then the professional would help that person come to that conclusion themselves.
Not a GOOD professional. And last I checked, you weren't paying me anything to sugarcoat the truth for ya.
You seem to think you are not an equal in this discussion but higher than everyone else.
Wrong assumption because your denial makes it easier to dismiss me if you make me out to be the "bad/ righteous guy".
How is this conductive to a discusion in a forum? How is this different than you standing on a soap box and preaching your "gospel"?
There is NO way to put what I say in a "nice" way. It goes against everything you, and most others on this site WANT to do so it doesn't matter HOW I say it, you will think I'm being "preachy". | |
|
| 12 year old that hates her father
Posted: 9/18/2008 10:31:53 AM | What you had stated was " I, or any other professional...." which means either you are a professional, or seem to think of yourself as one to put yourself on par with other professionals. Wrong assumption.
Easy assumption to make based on the way in which you engage everyone, and by what you stated in the words I quoted you on.
A professional will make suggestions, they will never TELL you what to do! They will acknowledge that they do not have all of the answers. I never claimed to have all of the answers. Just answers to the OP's, and your, questions. Again, wrong assumption.
But your not answering the question! You are simply coming on here saying that "single parents shouldn't be dating." That is your opinion, its not a specific answer to as specific question!
If a person is truly in denial then the professional would help that person come to that conclusion themselves. Not a GOOD professional. And last I checked, you weren't paying me anything to sugarcoat the truth for ya.
I'm sorry what? So your saying a GOOD professional puts no value on self discovery? And that their client, should either be spoon fed the answers or brow beat with them? Thats the most absurd thing I've ever seen.
You seem to think you are not an equal in this discussion but higher than everyone else. Wrong assumption because your denial makes it easier to dismiss me if you make me out to be the "bad/ righteous guy".
You keep throwing this denial label at me, you don't know me from Adam, so how the hell can you say I'm in denial? What am I possibly in denial of? And, in your words, is it easier to dismiss what everyone says because they are in "denial"?
How is this conductive to a discusion in a forum? How is this different than you standing on a soap box and preaching your "gospel"? There is NO way to put what I say in a "nice" way. It goes against everything you, and most others on this site WANT to do so it doesn't matter HOW I say it, you will think I'm being "preachy".
I am going to ask you again, what I and many other people have asked with your previous statement in mind. Why are you on a dating site in a single parents forum giving your opinion (which according to you is the only real answer), and how can you not consider it "preachy?" The only thing that comes to mind is that you feel you know the truth and are on a mission to convert everyone to your beliefs, because to be honest, your approach is the exact same as that of any extremist. | |
|
| 12 year old that hates her father
Posted: 9/18/2008 11:12:12 AM |
But your not answering the question! You are simply coming on here saying that "single parents shouldn't be dating."
That IS the answer. I've given the myriad of reasons why people shouldn't be dating when they have kids. They aren't "opinion", they are fact. The reason you keep asking for me to answer the question is because of denial. You don't WANT to hear the answer so you gloss over it and find ways to dismiss it.
Why are you on a dating site in a single parents forum giving your opinion (which according to you is the only real answer), and how can you not consider it "preachy?"
I've answered this question many times.
It's not anymore "preachy" than anyone else offering advice on here. The difference is that THEIR advice doesn't sound "preachy" because it doesn't affect you personally. | |
|
| 12 year old that hates her father
Posted: 9/18/2008 12:44:42 PM | There was more to my post than which you responded to. Although I've noticed you seem to just ignore that which is inconvienient for you.
That IS the answer. I've given the myriad of reasons why people shouldn't be dating when they have kids. They aren't "opinion", they are fact. The reason you keep asking for me to answer the question is because of denial. You don't WANT to hear the answer so you gloss over it and find ways to dismiss it.
If you wish to indicate something is fact, the burden of proof is on you. You need to back up your statements, otherwise they are just opinion. To be honest, if a person wishes to cram their opinion down my throat, and refuses to have a dialogue, about their opinion I will stop listening to what they say. As soon as I, and many others , wished to discuss your stance, you started to label people with "denial", and used ridicule, and attempts at shaming people to make your point.
It's not anymore "preachy" than anyone else offering advice on here. The difference is that THEIR advice doesn't sound "preachy" because it doesn't affect you personally. {/quote]
To be honest, your "advice" doesn't affect me at all, as what you have to say has little value for me. The reason I keep responding to your posts apparently is due to the fact I'm a masochist, and quite honestly, I really don't like bullies. | |
|
| 12 year old that hates her father
Posted: 9/18/2008 12:56:05 PM |
If you wish to indicate something is fact, the burden of proof is on you. You need to back up your statements, otherwise they are just opinion.
And I've done that. | |
|
| 12 year old that hates her father
Posted: 9/18/2008 1:06:56 PM | | pointing at these forums is not evidence. Its anecdotal at best. Show links to studies that have been done, link to something. Simply stating "well I've seen this happen" , or "Dr. Laura says" doesn't cut it. If you are going to come into the lions den and start poking the lion you need a really big stick. Up to this point you've only been using your finger. | |
|
amg72
|
Joined: 8/29/2008
Msg: 99 | |
| 12 year old that hates her father
Posted: 9/18/2008 1:09:24 PM |
I never claimed to have all the answers. Just answers to th OP's, and your, questions
Since you have established that you are here to answer our questions, can you please stop hijacking threads when anyone states an opinion or fact different than your own and stick to the questions instead of pointing out how inferior we are for disagreeing with you. It would just be nice for threads to stay on topic.
You can start your own threads (up to 3 a day!) such as "single parents shouldn't date... So why do they?" and "did you get divorced because you didn't take the time to know your mate or you made a bad decision?" or my favorite ..."subdividing time...how can we get more than 24 hours into a day?" and debate these issues with you nonstop.... I for one look forward to it!
No question about it! And btw, no question.......
And can we get back on topic please | |
|
| 12 year old that hates her father
Posted: 9/24/2008 4:56:23 PM | haha. well, i guess since im a single parent, i shouldn't be on here looking for dates!? is that the answer?? WRONG! get off yer freakin soap box AND yer high horse and step into the 21st century you twit!
youve never lived until yer a parent. and just because you have children DOES NOT mean that your life just 'stops'. just because you have children doesn't mean you have to give up EVERYTHING, yes imbicile-that INCLUDES DATING, if in that case.
and if you can't see, your arrogance and idiocity aren't welcome in this forum. (and possibly every other you've posted on...) you have NO children therefore have no right posting your rude and obnoxious aquisitions, stupidity and 'insight' on something that you have no IDEA about the facts of the matter. yer making everyone turn their heads at the REAL question that actually matters (the ORIGINAL POSTER) onto you because you're DEPRIVED of attention! (wonder why that is???) GET A LIFE! and go post on the forum called b*tches who know everything...[all] yer friends will be there. you should have fun.
XOXOXO | |
|
Home
login