| Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/4/2008 3:41:17 PM | GospelSteel:
Point of fact: Obama is not a "born again" Christian. He is Christian convert.
As for his pro-choice position, I am sure Obama is not worried about not getting the vote of fervent right-to-lifers such as yourself.
This is not to say you don't have a legitimate gripe -- you do, but like a lot of issues, this one is rife for exaggeration.
Obama isn't for indiscriminate abortions, and his recent stand against the ban on partial-birth abortions is predictated on permitting an exception (with respect to the health of the mother). It's his desire to avoid a "slippery slope" argument to take hold which would lead to a ban WITHOUT exception.
TJ
TJ | |
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| Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/4/2008 3:54:47 PM | This is why organized religion of any kind is an abomination to God!!!
First of all, I don't care what faith anyone has. Faith is a private matter. Second of all, the whole Obama going to burn in hell thing is freaking rediculous. What ever happened to the judge not lest ye be judged?
If God is omnipotent, then he knows if a fetus os going to be aborted, so he wouldn't place a soul in it. If God Doesn't exist, then what does it matter? It is a paradox. God doesn't care about our trivial problems. If he cared, he wouldn't allow evil people like Bush to rise to power.
Obama is a good man, who will do a fine job as president. Your vote was never in play, so why should any of us care what you think of his faith? You support Bush, who never even goes to church, but question Obama's faith because his precher was radical. Talk about hypocracy! | |
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| Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/4/2008 3:54:58 PM | Sanderick:
It was YOU who posted the thread and created the subject line. ~Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage~, the similar title to the Afeef article, notwithstanding.
Additionally, it was YOU who said
~QUESTION: Should Obama quit acting like having a Muslim Heritage is a bad thing and just embrace it and overcome it?~
The words were echoed by YOU.
My point is you premised this thread on a silly premise.
It's also disingenuous of you to bring up a spurious notion and then claim the "It's not me, I'm only just telling you what I heard" argument. This is sophistry at best, gossip/dissemination of false information at worst.
As I said, this issue of Obama "embracing" his Islamic heritage is a nonstarter.
BTW... I am not an Obama supporter.
TJ | |
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| Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/4/2008 10:46:58 PM | he does have a muslim heritage... just as i have a swedish, german, english, scottish, irish, italian, and (gasp) french heritage. now i know very little about a good deal of that heritage, barring the swedish and the german part. i do have relatives in sweden, and i always feel a weird comaraderie when i meet people who are swedish... i say, " hey! i am swedish too!"
obama may regard himself as a largely "secular so-called christian (most people on the left that claim some sort of church affiliation fall into the this catagory) but he does have muslim heritage. unfortunately, he is also a man of political expediency and that is the reason he denies is so vociferously.
why should anyone be surprised? he's thrown everyone under the bus thus far when said individuals have become an uncomfortable affiliation, so why should the prophet and the uma be any different.
lar | |
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| Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/5/2008 1:32:15 AM | | That is another case of pure ignorance. Please stop repeating lies. It is infuriating that you resort to that. Sweedish, French, etc are national origins. They aren't even races. Islam is a faith. You don't get a genetic code for Islam, it isn't hereditary. Saying someone has a Muslim background because an ancestor was islamic is just pure stupidity or lies. Learn the difference, please. | |
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| Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/5/2008 2:54:39 AM | Exodusi1 ~Saying someone has a Muslim background because an ancestor was islamic is just pure stupidity or lies~
It's also the stuff of comedy writers.
Consider the movie "Groundhog Day," in which the piano teacher is amazed how well Phil (Bill Murray) plays the piano, despite presumably never having played before:
Piano Teacher: ~ Not bad... Mr. Connors, you say this is your first lesson? ~
Phil: ~ Yes, but my father was a piano mover, so... ~
TJ | |
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| Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/5/2008 7:19:04 AM |
Mr. Afeef is director of public and government Affairs at the Council of Islamic Organizations of Greater Chicago.
Obama Should Embrace His Muslim Heritage
While his heritage may include Muslims, Mr. Obama is a Christian, and when his religion is incorrectly identified he rightly corrects the record. Now there is even a Web site called "Fight the Smears" that challenges the lie that he is a Muslim.
The problem, however, is the manner in which he corrects the record. He vociferously denies being a Muslim as if it were a slur.
Mr. Obama does not need to take this approach. He knows how to smash through barriers. He brought whites and blacks together in the primary, no small feat in a nation that still struggles with race issues.
As a great leader, Mr. Obama should take a principled stand on the issue of Muslims and Islamophobia. While anti-Muslim sentiment in the U.S. is substantial, it is not an insurmountable challenge.
Mr. Afeef is director of public and government Affairs at the Council of Islamic Organizations of Greater Chicago.
Mr. Afeef is NOT a comedy writer. | |
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| Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/5/2008 8:31:15 AM | The answer to the question is no because it's irrelevant and others only want it to be relevant for their own reasons including Mr. Afeef.
Mr. Afeef should embrace that not all people are Muslim and stating such is not Islamaphobia.
Perhaps his perception could be different if anyone ever asked about Obama's Muslim "heritage" in such a way that wasn't a self serving accusation. Has it ever been "Mr. Obama, are you a Muslim"? No, it's always been "Obama's a terrorist agent!". Obama's responses have always been in addressing the Islamaphobia of others.
As for Islamaphobia, Mr. Afeef could possibly take the mantle as a Muslim to lead other Muslims in showing that Islam is not hatred and murder. Islamaphobes don't fear Muslims because of the policies of US congressmen and candidates. They fear Muslims because of the actions of some and the silence about those actions by others. | |
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| Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/5/2008 9:24:17 AM | This thread is a desperate attempt by Obama haters to stick him with the muslim label for obvious reasons.
Its pretty obvious that he has relatives who are muslims but he has repeatedly stated he chose christianity a long, long time ago.
Its also pretty obvious that it is a politically touchy subject, for obvious reasons, that he doesnt wish to engage because it is a huge distraction, stupid, and a non-issue for him, just an issue for the nutjobs on the right wing.
This kind of thread and the thinking and spirit of it is sick and disgusting, its people who have lost any sense of humanity and decency due to their sick, sick, sick, desperate partisanship........more like animals........jackals, in particular........than people.
Judge a man for who he is and what he does, for christ's sake. | |
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| Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/5/2008 9:41:58 AM | This thread is about the article.
I don't think that Mr. Afeef is sick. He brings up a good point.
Obama will have people labeling him up until the election. If he clarified his position, as he did with Rev. Wright, he could take the wind out of the sails of those who would try to LABEL him.
This thread is a discussion about the article and it's claim. Some may label this thread desperate. But it's just a thread on POF with the intent to create debate and discussion.
It's a shame that some people can't help but inject their own partisanship into the discussion.
We should not "judge" Obama. But we should try to understand him.
To bring back the original post to try to keep this thread from dissolving into a partisanship debate about Obamas religious choice.
While his heritage may include Muslims, Mr. Obama is a Christian, and when his religion is incorrectly identified he rightly corrects the record. Now there is even a Web site called "Fight the Smears" that challenges the lie that he is a Muslim.
The problem, however, is the manner in which he corrects the record. He vociferously denies being a Muslim as if it were a slur.
Mr. Obama does not need to take this approach. He knows how to smash through barriers. He brought whites and blacks together in the primary, no small feat in a nation that still struggles with race issues.
He knows how to smash through barriers.
Should he try it or not? | |
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| Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/5/2008 9:54:30 AM | | Since you are taking it upon yourself to argue Mr Afeef's case, Sanderick, perhaps you could provide an example of Obama "VOCIFEROUSLY" denying that he's a Muslim. Unless, "I'm a Christian" counts as a vociferous denial.....then this is just all smoke and mirrors, IMO. | |
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| Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/5/2008 10:00:38 AM | Sanderick: ~Mr. Afeef is NOT a comedy writer.~
Nobody said he was.
In any case Mr. Afeef and the article he wrote is not relevant.
Again, you're missing the point that several people in this thread have been able to grasp quite easily.
A "heritage", by definition, involves practices that are handed down from the past by tradition. As such one may speak of a "heritage of freedom."
However, an organized religion, be it Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, or even Atheism are NOT heritable practices in the genetic sense. One's offspring need not adopt any of these doctrines! They can pay lip service to them and attest positively to them, but they DO NOT HAVE TO ADHERE to them themselves!
Hence, the whole question of whether or not a person SHOULD "embrace" (inappropriate term) a "heritage" (inapplicable expression) is silly!
Just as silly as one saying he has an aptitude for music because his father was a paino MOVER! | |
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| Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/5/2008 10:20:04 AM | My "family background" is both Roman Catholic and Protestant, should I "embrace" both those religions ? They are not mine, they are my parent's. Do I "embrace" one, or the other, or both ?
As such, they have little to do with me, except that I'm directly genetically linked to two people who were members of those two religions.
I see it the same way in Obama's case. | |
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| Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/5/2008 10:24:10 AM | It is just more of the same thing over and over and over. Distract the masses with meaningless diatribe to sway them from voting their interests.
Democrats are out to take your guns. . . Boogy Boogy.
Democrats are going to tax you. . . Boogy Boogy.
Democrats don't believe in God. . . Boogy Boogy.
Democrats are going to lett all the criminals out of jail. . . Boogy Boogy.
Democrats will let the terrorists win. . . Boogy Boogy.
How about a strategy that actually discusses the topics? Would that be too much to ask for? | |
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| Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/5/2008 12:30:13 PM |
Since you are taking it upon yourself to argue Mr Afeef's case, Sanderick, perhaps you could provide an example of Obama "VOCIFEROUSLY" denying that he's a Muslim. Unless, "I'm a Christian" counts as a vociferous denial.....then this is just all smoke and mirrors, IMO.
Why should I provide an example of what is known to be true, that Obama is not a Muslim. Why do you need a vociferous denial? Can't you just take him at his word?
Actually your mistaking arguing Mr. Afeef's article, with trying to keep the post on topic , and trying to prevent it from being hijacked into a discussion, as to if Obama is a muslim or not. He isn't.
A lot of people here want to argue with the content of the article and also want to attack the messenger for bringing the message that I didn't write.
If people think that this thread is silly, then don't bother posting and wasting your time on what you would consider silly.
No one is claiming that Obama should adopt his family heritage. If people have trouble or issue with the writers use of the word "embrace" and want to correct him on it. Feel free to do so. But don't bother trying to correct me about it. It wasn't my choice of words.
If people feel so strongly about the article and want to debate it the content or the writer's intent, you can write the Council of Islamic Organizations. You can reach them at: http://www.ciogc.org/contact.html
If people want to debate the semantics of the article, I invite you to create your own thread on it. If people want to debate if Obama is a Muslim or not, start your own thread on it.
If you want to stick to the original question, please read the article, and question, and provide your answer.
Thanks...
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| Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/5/2008 12:48:28 PM | | He does not act like muslim is a bad word it is the right saying he is muslim that is wrong. I do not thhink any one would like to be consently mislabled. Do you see Romney say that he is a Mormon more then once. No he said it everyone believed him no one said he should change his belief systems. Evil folk who keep harping on this BHO is a muslim thing are trying to hijack the race in to a Christian vs Muslim thing whenMcCain never made a public claim to religous belief. All he had to do is sit in a church service. | |
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| Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/5/2008 1:01:24 PM | If people want to debate the semantics of the article, I invite you to create your own thread on it. If people want to debate if Obama is a Muslim or not, start your own thread on it.
If you want to stick to the original question, please read the article, and question, and provide your answer.
Actually, I respectfully disagree with your concept on Obama being a Muslim as a topic of discussion totally unrelated to the article in question. Thanks to a rather powerful, popular, and factually wrong campaign regarding Obama's "Muslimness"  , people have tried to use that "link" as a political weapon against him.
The writer of the article is in fact doing that himself. 
If one has Muslim members of one's family, that's something that's neither good nor bad. It just simply "is", and we all have various nationalities/religions/etc in our family circle. Because of my Irish heritage, do I have to "embrace" Ireland ? If I do, do I also have to "embrace" my other "heritages", as I've mentioned before ? Is there a sequence to it ?
Obama joins a "black" church (albeit with white members, too , and it's time to celebrate his "Afrocentricity"  .
If he doesn't , then he's not "embracing" his heritage.
It's a great little game, only it cannot ever be won - except by those using such things as potential political weapons.
The only heritage Obama has is his one with America, one he's already embraced quite openly.  His past is both a black and white one, combined into one person, much like America itself - a polyglot nation whose end goal is simply to be labeled as "American" after a generation or two.
He needs to embrace only that, and nothing more. | |
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| Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/5/2008 1:08:32 PM | TJ?
Born again = Christian convert.
Read your Bible "You must be born again."
Anyone who is a "Christian by default" is not born again they are practicing a religion no difference then any other religion. Born again is a personal event not a rite. You are one person before it happens and another after. The transformation is evident to you and others who know you see in you without you saying a word.
Obama like Jesus and the Bible believes in allowing people to live with their choices.
The Bible says "Sin is at the door and wants to devour you. You must Master it." "Choose this day" "you should not________ "," you should__________" "All things are lawful but not expedient" This makes him Christian.
The folk who want to ban this and stop that are forcing a religion on others and it is not Christian but Muslim to force Gods will upon people. That is the root of separation between the two Christians believe in "Shake the dust" and Muslims have the "Yield to the will" Funny how it has been twisted
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| Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/5/2008 1:46:37 PM | Vvendy.
Now you're just messing with semantics.
Many people, such as yourself, believes that anyone who becomes a Christian is "born again." The definition varies, but in any event is moot.
Obama was never a Christian until he became one 20+ years ago. Prior to that, by his admission, he had essentially NO religion (including Islam).
Thanks for your proselytizing, just the same. However, I have no interest in the subject or the discussion of same, especially in this thread which addresses a different topic altogether. | |
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| Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/5/2008 2:02:22 PM | I don't understand what to "embrace his Muslim Heritage" entails. Does that mean that Obama should say he believes in Islamic teaching instead of his Christian denomination?
It is only his name Hussein--which he simply inherited from his father--that attaches him to this religion. But religion and names are just what they are for everybody; what really matters is the character and intellect of a person.
Why is no one asking Obama to call himself a Kikuyu or Luo or even African since his father was African? Why is no one concerned about Sen. McCain's place of birth--Panama? Do you think that Obama would be allowed to run for president if he was born in Panama like Mc Cain?
These are all biased claims based on fear. But as FDR once said during one of the toughest moments on this country's "what we should fear is fear itself."
Watch out for those making such claims out fear! | |
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| Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/5/2008 2:32:49 PM | And speaking of fearmongering, here is what Mayor Bloomberg had to say about it to a group of Jewish voters.....
BOCA RATON, Fla. — Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, injecting himself directly into the presidential campaign, forcefully denounced on Friday what he called a “whisper campaign” linking Senator Barack Obama, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, to Islam.
Speaking before a crucial constituency in the coming election, Jewish voters, in the pivotal state of Florida, Mr. Bloomberg said that rumors of Mr. Obama secretly being a Muslim represent “wedge politics at its worst, and we have to reject it — loudly, clearly and unequivocally.”
“Let’s call those rumors what they are: lies,” said Mr. Bloomberg, who has been mentioned as a potential running mate for both Mr. Obama and Senator John McCain, the likely Republican nominee.
Obama 2008!
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/21/nyregion/21jewish.html?_r=1&oref=slogin | |
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| Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/5/2008 2:52:49 PM |
he does have a muslim heritage... just as i have a swedish, german, english, scottish, irish, italian, and (gasp) french heritage.
one of these things is not like the other. One of these things is not the same.... | |
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| Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/5/2008 3:50:45 PM | That's too funny! But even putting it at the Sesame Street level isn't going to explain it to the groups that keep trying to "Swift Boat" Obama. It is the only way they know how to win.
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| Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/5/2008 3:58:07 PM | You were wrong TJ, ff but I could not let it pass I teach for a living.
Back to the subject
To me Obama understands and respects the religions he has been exposed to. The ones I know about are the Catholic, Muslim, Protestant, Baptist, Apostolic and Agnostic people he grew up around. It is reflected in his speeches that he accepts them. As I accept all of my background on just race but the Buddhism and tribalism that are mixed in my religious heritage. I do not own any statues or burn sage; I do understand the practices and respect them.
I think that the challenge Republican and Muslim goads to get him to do more then accept them but identify his self with them and he can't
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| Should Obama Embrace His Muslim Heritage?
Posted: 7/5/2008 4:03:06 PM | ~.....he does have a muslim heritage... just as i have a swedish, german, english, scottish, irish, italian, and (gasp) french heritage.~~
Aw, c'mon.. a "French" heritage?? Seems like a lot of people on these forums have "embraced" that ... I mean if obtuseness, haughtiness , rudeness, and snobbery count
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