|
|
|
|
|
~Kyn~
|
Joined: 2/15/2008
Msg: 51 | |
| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/3/2008 10:37:08 PM |
Sometimes the answer to the why isn't all that complicated. If it's not a good "fit", it simply isn't.
Thats exactly true IMO.
Which is why...if I come across a "retreater"...
Im not gonna stand around expending copious amounts of energy to get through to these people or verbally argue or "blame" them for who they are. They simply are.
What they are doesnt work for "me"... so I personally just choose to not be involved with them at all.
And they should be with someone better suited to themselves to keep them happy. Which is kinda the point.
Doesnt make them a bad person...and it doesnt make me a bad person just because I refuse to participate in something like this with these people...it just means Im observant enough to know the entire relationship will consist of this  | |
|
| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/3/2008 10:41:35 PM | | I forgot one major detail this man actually stopped calling me completely for six months straight and then sent me an email apologizing. Obviously I did not wait for him to show up but after having dated him for a couple of years and being aquainted with him for many years before this I definetly had a difficult time with his dissapearance. There I was one day I am in a relationship the next I can't find my boyfriend. Not a good feeling at all. I wasn't sure if he was upset with me, met someone.... died LOL. | |
|
| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/3/2008 10:59:10 PM | | Emotionally unavailable/inadequate.....thats the quick answer. | |
|
| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 5:37:31 AM | I wonder if the anger you mention, could actually really be an internal anger for sabatoging something that could be wonderful
This could really be a whole new topic in itself. Sabatoge....self sabatoging....whether it's a relationship, a job, a reward, a move forward. We all know those who have done this. I have done it myself. Fears are usually without due cause, for the most part.
The Course in Miracles tells us that all reactions stem from either Love...or Fear.
So, my instinct tells me that retreating to the point of disappearing completely must come from Fear. Fear of the unknown, or, of something we have felt, or known in the past, or perhaps feelings that we are somehow not worthy of whatever it is that comes our way. Only we can determine where this reaction stems from.
In relationship, I prefer the term Coupling/Decoupling/Recoupling, Rather than Passive Agressive or Emotionally Unavailable, for those are psychological idioms that are not easily understood by most humans....yet people throw those phrases around waaay too much.
As we work ourselves closer to coming from Love....it becomes easier to understand why we have been evasive in the past....or perhaps in the present.
For the most part, i do believe that people simply process things, especially important things like Love, in their own way, and in their own time. It is only when we demand, or expect our mate to process things exactly as we do, that is when it can 'seem' like a major hurdle. For sometimes life events, such as sickness, dealing with a family crisis, money issues, etc..intercede, and in these times, we all deal with things differently.
I am not fearful anymore when things take time ...or someone seems to tend to themselves, or 'decouple' from my life these days. It simply means they are tending to something that demands their time. Acceptance and communication is the key to understanding these seperations.
But often, good things come to those who can wait.
Peace
```````````````` Kimbo~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 | |
|
| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 5:54:42 AM | I LUV THIS THREAD ... I think its a today fad and I hope it passes soon ... I cant believe how SHALLOW ppl are when they exspect NO baggage and NO drama ... I DONT like drama at all but EVERYONE HAS DRAMA AND BAGGAGE ... I wanna tell those ppl that say things like no baggage or drama to GET A LIFE ....  ... A arguement or a disagreement and their gone ? ... How self absorbed ... I DONT like argueing or disagreements myself but in the REAL world its going to come at ya one way or another ... Just my opinion ...
 | |
|
| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 6:11:57 AM | | This thread has been an education for me. My first experience ever with a "retreater" was my last relationship which ended 10 months ago. I've wondered since then if there was anything I could have done to deal with her tactic of sudden and complete communication shutdown. And from reading this thread, it appears I would have been wasting my time and aggravating her further by trying. I have nothing to contribute to the thread but thanks for confirming what I had suspected all along about what was happening on her end. I wish I could have reached her but knowing for sure now that it was impossible, at least makes me feel better about that whole needless breakup episode. | |
|
| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 6:28:08 AM | Ive been accussed of this and not only stonewalling in a relationship but my mother too has said i did this all through growing up. Nevwer mind
 | |
|
| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 6:32:40 AM | | Alot of the time these people will pass themselves off as being deep thinkers with profound hidden ideas and concepts...they act as if they are buried treasure that someone else must dig for,search out and suffer for in the hopes of some great reward....it's a bunch of B.S and just another way to get attention and have the focus always on them. | |
|
| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 6:38:16 AM | No thats not it its more a case of not wanting to be used as some sounding board for others emotions.
Draining your lifeforce out of your very being some people love an auidence | |
|
| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 6:51:08 AM | well i can only speak for myself as there seems to be quite a few ideas as to why this happens.
i did this when i was younger. when i walked away from an arguement, it was for a few different reasons, mainly i just did not want to deal with the problem, childish? yes! i dont hide it because i have learned to deal with 'problems' since. ive also learned that i dont like when my feelings are completely ignored when i have an issue, it was a hard lession, but hopefully those who do this will learn as well. | |
|
| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 6:59:31 AM | Alot of the time these people will pass themselves off as being deep thinkers with profound hidden ideas and concepts...they act as if they are buried treasure that someone else must dig for,search out and suffer for in the hopes of some great reward....it's a bunch of B.S and just another way to get attention and have the focus always on them.
My ex gf who I met on this line can be described in the above statement. She always said she had her self 2gether, was drama free, was a good woman that no man has ever "worked for." I seen a post by her recently where she refered to herself and "other good women," as the best apples at the top of the tree that men were just to lazy to climb for and work to get.
Yet I would ask in a polite and respectful manner: How good can that fruit be if it crumbles so easily in your hands once you do the "work" to pick it? Is it a beautiful red apple filled with rot and worms? Obviously if someone is unwilling to communicate and retreat in the face of a calm, adult discussion, which she did, then was it really worth the climb? And will it be worth the climb for any man that ascends the ladder to pick her? If you can't live up to the high claims you make about yourself, then it's best to rethink what you tell others. Here's a novel idea, why don't people like that climb halfway down the tree and meet the honest seeker at least half way. And better yet, why don't certian apples come down and show us that they are really quality fruit by taking responsibility for their own actions and words?? If you can't do the latter, then you need to take yourself off of that high branch.. and perhaps join the rest of the crowd in a plastic bag in a supermarket in the produce section. Because your no different than the run of the mill apples.
I know I just left a bit of a coded message here..lol.. But you know what? People need to live up to their words. A person is only as good as their word. And if you can't do that.. Then I don't care how shiney your skin is.. your rotten inside and decieve the climber... I mean, am I right here????
No disrespect meant to anynone.. Best of luck to all in the paths they have chosen..  | |
|
| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 7:07:41 AM | | I have found this to be true. I have met a couple of men whom I was interested in getting to know better, and they were also interested or at least said so. Along the way during conversation or email, something is said that is taken wrong or is inadvertently worded wrong but no insult or harm is intended. Immediately, they retreat never to be heard from again, without ever saying why or what you did. I always wonder what I said or did and sometimes even ask but they never reply. I have never intentionally said or done anything that would hurt or offend anyone. I am a talker and like to discuss things and talk things out but a lot of men I meet just turn off. I feel as nobody on internet dating sites really gives the relationship enough time to develop. You cannot know someone after one or even five "dates". I realize a lot of men only want sex and if they see that they are not going to get it on the first date, they retreat and if that is the case I am glad they do. Are men so insecure, afraid of rejection, or just incapable of saying "why did you say that" or "what did you mean by that", to clarify something that bothered them. If a man is incapable of communicating what he is feeling or talking then I probably wouldn't like them anyway. | |
|
| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 7:54:17 AM | The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/3/2008 10:35:16 PM
I dated a man off and on for a couple of years who loved to pull the silent treatment on me. It was horrible. The more I tried to speak to him the worse it got. It was like some sort of punishment. He would pull this over very little things such as asking him what he considered to be one too many questions during a casual conversation. I guess it irritated him. It would usually happen when he was under a lot of stress at work. Not that this is any kind of excuse. I did alot of reading about it to try to understand it. it is actually very common. Basically it is considered a form of abuse. Instead of talking about what is really bothering them they withold all communication, affection...everything as a way of letting you know you have upset them in some way.
I can't help but wonder if it is also something they had witnessed in their own families.
This is utter bulls**t. Men do not think like women. They don't talk about emotions like we do. They are problem solvers, not "emotional dikes". And the more we try to bleed the emotion out of the guy, the more he retreats. Jeeze when will you women understand this??? Abuse my big fat white ass... | |
|
| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 7:57:47 AM |
I have found this to be true. I have met a couple of men whom I was interested in getting to know better, and they were also interested or at least said so. Along the way during conversation or email, something is said that is taken wrong or is inadvertently worded wrong but no insult or harm is intended. Immediately, they retreat never to be heard from again, without ever saying why or what you did. I always wonder what I said or did and sometimes even ask but they never reply. I have never intentionally said or done anything that would hurt or offend anyone.
This is *exactly* what I'm talking about, and though it happens irl, too, I think it must happen online a lot more, because it's easier for people avoid anyone they don't want to talk to.
Are men so insecure, afraid of rejection, or just incapable of saying "why did you say that" or "what did you mean by that", to clarify something that bothered them. If a man is incapable of communicating what he is feeling or talking then I probably wouldn't like them anyway.
Yep, I think a lot of them are that insecure, and a lot of people - men and women - just never learned how to communicate and are so uncomfortable with it that they'd rather run and hide. And I don't know about your experiences, but several of the men who've done this with me have specificially written in their profile that any potential match of theirs must be able to communicate openly. I guess they're just talking about in the bedroom.
What's really sad, and I tried to tell one guy this, is that even if you find after a conflict or misunderstanding with a potential match online that you probably aren't a match after all, you could at least talk it out and figure out what went wrong, let bygones be bygones, and use the experience to improve communications with future matches. Instead, they just disappear in a huff, carry the same attitude and tactics into every new connection, and then keep complaining about everything the other side (men/women) does wrong. | |
|
| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 8:16:40 AM |
My whole point (if you're still with me), is that I think all of that crap is just manipulation. They get angry and stay angry so you'll grovel and beg their forgiveness. They give you the silent treatment and withdraw from you so you'll grovel and beg their forgiveness. They break up with you so you'll grovel and beg their forgiveness. My experiences was that a woman was doing this, but it's not a gender thing - some men do it, too. It's just a form of game-playing, and I've said for a long time that games are for kids. You want to play games, go get a jump rope and find a friend.
that's why I don't waste time with the females that want to run away, instead of the ones that want to talk it out. Because the ones that are about to run away and walk out that door already have minds made up. I have more respect for the one that talk it out because those females are not cowards and they say what's on their mind and hopefully we keep things simple. | |
|
| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 8:33:42 AM | Retreating Game
that people should not do, and do only because there is something wrong with them
Hey you, come back here, I am talking to you. Come back here and hear me explain what is wrong with you. You said you wanted us to talk about things. Here I am talking, so you had better listen, no matter what I say or how you feel. If you walk away I will throw a label on you and explain to strangers what is wrong with you and why I am right and reasonable. Come back here and get what you deserve. | |
|
| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 9:09:22 AM | I will retreat if I am given a reason to. Sometimes people will exhibit behavior that I know I could never deal with, such as extreme anger, being a huge flirt, lying and some lesser things as well. I know not being able to deal with those things is my problem. However, I know myself well enough to know how I function in a successful relationship. If I meet someone and they show a trait that I know I just could not deal with, I walk away, I will tell them why and that's it.
Some people may not agree with this but the way I look at it is I am really protecting both of us. I don't want someone to have to change to be with me. If they are happy with themselves, that's great and who the heck am I to ask anyone to change for me.
What I see as a fault may be no big deal to another woman. I think the most important thing is that you allow people to be themselves and if you can't then you should leave them alone. | |
|
| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 9:10:20 AM |
But why do some choose to retreat and be mean.. Instead of just talking things out calmly with someone who cares about them?
I was just in a relationship with an emotional retreater and I actually just wrote a thread about it, about withholding sex as manipulation tool.
In my humble opinion people who do this have huge intimacy issues. They don't really want to be in a real relationship because real relationships require work, and it is when you have conflict that the work is done. 
They retreat and sulk because they haven't grown passed that two year old stage when you think if you pout and fold your hands over your chest in defiance Mommy will give you what you want.
It is a control mechanism, IMO, designed to make the other person do what they want so they don't have to do that hard work of CHANGING what might be bad behavior on their part.
Hope this helps a little. | |
|
| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 9:49:26 AM | I`m a total retreatist and I will tell you why, It has nothing to do with trying to get my way, sulking, being uncaring or inadequate or cruel-----none of it. At least for me. I am one of the most giving, caring people you would meet when in a relationship.
Why do I retreat? It`s called the fight flight response. You r brain actually turns off and you can`t even respond or process. You don`t react. Sometimes you go blank for a few minutes and can`t even remember what went on until you get yourself safe. For myself it came from alot of childhood abuse from my parents. If when you are confronted, you actually fear for your personal safety, you just run. Fight flight response. I`m scared I`m going to be physically injured if I say or do anything, so I just try to get out of there safe. Having arguements scares the crap out of me. I don`t trust human nature. You don`t know if it is going to escalate, if they have a gun, if they are going to beat you up, whatever. You never know. And if you have seen that this is how it goes, time and time again, of course you will take the logical and self preserving
approach abd get the heck out of there.
I know that this may sound crazy, but unless you have had to shut up,pacify, and run
in order to be safe and survive, you wouldn`t get it. I just don`t want to risk my own safety being around people that may harm me.
The other thing is that I usually don`t see a compromise as a solution. When you have always had to give in and pacify, you just assume that the other person is laying down the rules, and your two choices is either to accomodate them or leave. I never feel like I can count or come half way anyways, so what is the point. So I accomodate and go their way until it is uncomfortable and intolerable for me to do so.Then I leave. I may totally love and care for them, but I`ve stretched a far as I can go. I can`t give any more. I really don`t ake into account if the person cares for me to be with them. I just figure they`ll find another one. I really don`t think my presence means that much to them anyways, so I guess I don`t feel like I am hurting them by leaving. I mean if they cared about me, they wouldn`t have had to have everything always go their way from the start, or get in an arguement. | |
|
| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 10:10:35 AM | Desertflower, I really hear what you're saying and coming from an abusive home myself totally understand.
The thing is what you're describing is really a fear of intimacy. What you've described is FEAR! The people who were supposed to protect you hurt you instead.
Now when you get or are beginning to get close to someone and conflict comes up, your gut instincts tell you to run -- and why wouldn't it?
Your experience has been that you'll get hurt. The work is to pick someone who is healthy, who will not do that to you, so that you can learn to stop behaving this way.
It is like Alice Miller said, walking around with seat belts on when you're no longer in a car.
This was necessary to protect you as a child but it becomes a burden (and a block to true intimacy) as an adult with healthy people.
The other thing is that I usually don`t see a compromise as a solution. When you have always had to give in and pacify, you just assume that the other person is laying down the rules, and your two choices is either to accomodate them or leave. I never feel like I can count or come half way anyways, so what is the point. So I accomodate and go their way until it is uncomfortable and intolerable for me to do so.Then I leave. I may totally love and care for them, but I`ve stretched a far as I can go. I can`t give any more. I really don`t ake into account if the person cares for me to be with them. I just figure they`ll find another one. I really don`t think my presence means that much to them anyways, so I guess I don`t feel like I am hurting them by leaving. I mean if they cared about me, they wouldn`t have had to have everything always go their way from the start, or get in an arguement.
What you've written here is really key. Look at what you said. YOU don't feel like you can count or come half way -- you feel you'll always have to give in and pacify the other person.
Now that might have been true for your abusive parents but it's not true now. You DO have a choice; you DO count. If you're in a relationship with a healthy person, you can begin to see that but only if you take the chance.
This was the problem in my relationship with the guy I spoke about above. He felt totally powerless in the face of conflict, as if I was trying to dominate him but he wasn't willing to trust that I was NOT doing that and start to believe that he did matter.
He wanted to always have peace but that is not realistic.
There are no two people who can get together and not argue or have conflict but for him, conflict meant: YOU WIN, I LOSE -- it was a self-esteem issue that he was unwilling to grow from. When he withdrew, passive-agressively, he was trying to feel in control because as you said, he couldn't see any other options. Bu there are so many options with healthy people. With an abusive person, you're right, there are not many options.
And if you can look at in reverse you can see how in some way you're replaying that dynamic because a person in a relationship with someone who retreats doesn't have many options. They can't talk to, get through to, reason with or compromise with a person who won't interact with them.
Sound familiar -- it's what your parents and my parents did to me. The cycle continues.
I hope you can start to look at this and heal -- don't let your parents rob you of the ability to experience true love. I won't let my parents do that to me. | |
|
| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 10:15:47 AM |
In my humble opinion people who do this have huge intimacy issues. They don't really want to be in a real relationship because real relationships require work, and it is when you have conflict that the work is done.
They retreat and sulk because they haven't grown passed that two year old stage when you think if you pout and fold your hands over your chest in defiance Mommy will give you what you want.
It is a control mechanism, IMO, designed to make the other person do what they want so they don't have to do that hard work of CHANGING what might be bad behavior on their part.
You have just described my former S.O....major intimacy issues. Not willing to do the work, just expected to have his fantasy relationship materialize all by itself and was unable to understand why it didn't. He was very controlling and it makes a lot of sense that his emotional withdrawal and complete communication shutdowns were just another attempt at maintaining that control. It took me a long time to leave that relationship, but I'm so glad I finally did and one of the main things I look at now in getting to know someone new is whether he is uncommunicative. If he is, I beat cheeks down the road. | |
|
| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 10:24:10 AM | He was very controlling and it makes a lot of sense that his emotional withdrawal and complete communication shutdowns were just another attempt at maintaining that control. It took me a long time to leave that relationship, but I'm so glad I finally did
ClassyfiedAlly, Controlling relationships are so physically and emotionally draining - I'm sure you know. They rob you of a sense of security in yourself and in the worldin general and are very difficult to get out of once you find yourself in one -- and it doesn't matter if it's passive control or aggressive control.
I'm glad you got out too, and are looking for the red flags in new relationships!! Good for you!!
Alot of the time these people will pass themselves off as being deep thinkers with profound hidden ideas and concepts...they act as if they are buried treasure that someone else must dig for,search out and suffer for in the hopes of some great reward....it's a bunch of B.S and just another way to get attention and have the focus always on them.
Wow, for the last guy I dated this is ABSOLUTELY true. He was a very wounded person and in need of a lot of care but unwilling to give in return. I feel so sorry for him. | |
|
| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 10:25:12 AM | OP: It sounds like someone just burned you? As noted, a few people in life will do this for irrational purposes, and sometimes IT IS the smart thing to do. I don't know what part YOU PLAYED IN THIS? Dig deep and honestly, I mean really, spend some time with paper and pencil and write down every little thing you can think of or that YOU did.
We cannot control other people or what they think of us, can we?
On another note: the "RETREAT" in dating commonly refers to that first few dates or weeks where one person does the pursuing and the other acts less interested, then the other person becomes interested, then the first person backs off for a few days (thinking it is working, now what do I do..etc?). Then the two finally click and stay together for however long. That's whats called the "RETREAT" by dating/relationship experts.
Have no fear, this is already a topic elsewhere on POF: (((This could really be a whole new topic in itself. Sabatoge....self sabatoging....whether it's a relationship, a job, a reward, a move forward.)))
(((seems you wish to blame the retreater with out asking what triggered the behavior. Well it is always easier to simply blame anything negative on someone else, especially if instead of defending thierself the person retreats to safety. It takes two.)))
Ok, whoever wrote that....do you think "asking a retreater" what is going on will get an useful answer from a retreater (or other "non-communicator"). That's why we are calling them "retreaters" in this thread, you want to talk to them about somenthing (i.e, "it takes two") and they lock up tite, look at you funny, accuse YOU of thinking, want to know why you always want to talk about things, go away, disappear, break up...
as per "Cat and Mouse" below, maybe you read different books than I did. If you are talking about the first few weeks of many peoples dating, it is fairly common, it can be confusing and fun, and most often harmless to healthy normal people as they continue on their relationship. It doesn't play out through the whole relationship. You may be talking about something else. Is there a more serious or grievious "cat and mouse" game commonly referred to in dating? Or are some of YOU taking things way too seriously, perhaps, because of your past? | |
|
| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 10:27:56 AM | On another note: the "RETREAT" in dating commonly refers to that first few dates or weeks where one person does the pursuing and the other acts less interested, then the other person becomes interested, then the first person backs off for a few days (thinking it is working, now what do I do..etc?). Then the two finally click and stay together for however long. That's whats called the "RETREAT" by dating/relationship experts.
Oh my goodness, I hate to disagree with you but that is actually what is called that Cat and Mouse game -- it is co-dependent and very dysfunctional. It usually plays out through out the entire relationship, no matter how long it lasts, with no issues ever truly being resolved, no intimacy or closeness ever really being achieved.
It is very toxic, IMO. Anyone does this to me, and I put down my ball. I'm not interested in playing that game. | |
|
| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 1:25:32 PM | "My whole point (if you're still with me), is that I think all of that crap is just manipulation. They get angry and stay angry so you'll grovel and beg their forgiveness. They give you the silent treatment and withdraw from you so you'll grovel and beg their forgiveness. They break up with you so you'll grovel and beg their forgiveness. My experiences was that a woman was doing this, but it's not a gender thing - some men do it, too. It's just a form of game-playing, and I've said for a long time that games are for kids. You want to play games, go get a jump rope and find a friend. "
Wow. I had this experience, exactly as outlined above once, and all this time I thought maybe I had been 'too much" for him to deal with. In reading this thread, I see now that he used the retreat to cope. All I can say is, I am very glad not to have to deal with that anymore. I like to talk things out, not run away.
I guess if we all knew in the beginning of any relationship, what style the potential mate used to handle conflict, it would make things easier. Perhaps on our profiles we should have to check a box...retreater, yes or no. That would help!
I think some people can deal with a retreater, while others cannot...and I will say this-to retreat and say like an adult "listen, I need time to process this, can we pick this up in a bit"...I would have no trouble with that. In fact I have used that tactic when confronted with things I could not process quickly...the difference though, is I will always come back to the table willing to talk. The fellow I encountered would not have any discussions at all, about anything that made him 'uncomfortable'. One of the final things I said to him was, how do you expect to live your life with ANYONE and never have an uncomfortable moment? It just doesnt seem realistic to me...once in awhile life is going to deal you a card that is not comfortable. I would prefer to deal with it, not run from it. JMO
On the plus side though, I learned a lot from time spent with him. I learned I will not stick around someone who I cannot count on to tell me when he is uncomfortable. I learned I do not have ESP, nor should I be expected too...and I learned I really value a good old talk. I will look for these qualities in future..and that is a good thing. | |
|
|
| Page 3 of 7
|
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 |
|
Home
login 
