| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 2:03:06 PM | Hmm. Well, when I'm bothered by something, I try to get some space until I can handle the situation without yelling. So that I can have an actual discussion aimed toward a solution rather than a screaming match.
Aside from that, I'm pretty comfortable with confrontation.
In my experience, a lot of people get some sort of flashback or something whenever an uncomfortable situation comes up, and they clam up with fear. Having a fight doesn't mean you have to end the relationship, or that it's an unhappy relationship. It means there's a problem with one or both parties, that needs a solution. | |
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| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 2:48:36 PM | Akimmbo-
"I am not fearful anymore when things take time ...or someone seems to tend to themselves, or 'decouple' from my life these days. It simply means they are tending to something that demands their time. Acceptance and communication is the key to understanding these separations."
"But often, good things come to those who can wait."
I liked that, and I am trying to work at that.
When someone retreats, the fear steps in, fear of loss.
Especially if you care deeply for that person.
If the retreater would communicate the reasons for retreat, and let the other person know
it is not because they are leaving them emotionally, or the relationship, it would maybe be
easier to handle the times their partner turns away from them.
I think a person ends the relationship with a retreater because they feel they have already
been left, not realizing if they wait it out, the other person may work through their problems and come back.
We are always growing and always changing. Mistakes are a way of learning the right way of handling difficult times.
This is a good post and I think this situation has touched alot of people.
People that retreat and also those that have been left behind. | |
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| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 3:21:54 PM | A person is only as good as their word. And if you can't do that.. Then I don't care how shiney your skin is.. your rotten inside and decieve the climber... I mean, am I right here???? IMO you are right. Talk is cheap and without the behaviors to support the words, of what value is the good looking package on the outside when the inside is rotten? None as far as I am concerned. | |
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| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 7:46:48 PM | When I retreat it is because I have been frightened and intimidated by the other person.
So for me to get into a place where I feel safe, how is that controlling? I have not asked a thing of the other person. Did I ask them to grovel or beg after they have already been aggressive and frightened me? NO. If anyone is the controller, it is the one who is pushing the buttons and forcing the person to flee by their actions. They are the aggessors, not the victims. If you treat a person badly, there is a chance that they will leave and not come back. That is not controlling. That is reality.
Any time I have retreated, it is not to cause the other to come crawling back. It is because their behavior warranted me leaving. And when I left , I meant it. I`m not trying to play games with their head and be passive aggressive.
When you are bad to people, you take the risk of them leaving period. Then if you are mad that they left, rather blame them for the problem than your own aggressive behavior.
I mean think about it, when you leave, you know there is a very strong chance that this is it. Why would you do it if there was any other alternative? In my opinion, aggressive bullying type people are left alot and then they are angry so blame the person they are aweful to instead of blaming themselves. Before you attack (again) this person that left you for their problems, look in the mirror and wonder why they felt that they had to flee. | |
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| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 7:52:46 PM | Another issue is that some people thrive on confrontation and drama, to some, it cripples them. It is never a good combination. If you get off on conflict and fighting and all of the drama, find a parnter willing to spar with you. Not an amiacable peace loving person. But don`t blame the peace lover when you attack both barrels and they go running for the hills.
Some people are Jerry Springer people and some aren`t. Find the type that works for you. | |
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| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 7:57:51 PM | Desert, it's pretty clear to me from reading your posts that advising you is way beyond the scope of this forum. It's not anybody's job here to fix you, you need to fix yourself. With professional help.
I still see no accountability on your part for your irrational coping mechanism when faced with conflict. Just because you feel frightened by someone confronting you and you feel the need to run and hide ~ that doesn't make it healthy. It isn't healthy. Learn to deal with conflict as an adult rather than a child. You can blame others all you want, but if you do, your life will never change. | |
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| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 8:06:48 PM | I have to admit, this is where I entirely agree with ~Kyn~ about expecting a partner my age to have already dealt with their issues:
think a person ends the relationship with a retreater because they feel they have already been left, not realizing if they wait it out, the other person may work through their problems and come back
Yes, someone might well wait it out with a retreater, as you say...but WHY? If I was younger, I might do so, and probably did. At my age? Nope, that chance in hell went bye-bye long ago. Why? Well, while we all have good or bad past experiences, I just finally decided several years ago that hey, I've dealt with any major emotional/relationship things in my past, so...well I hoped by that age, that anyone I wanted to date had as well. Any minor issues? Sure, we can work together through those things. Any vitriol or outright "scary" issues? Sue me, but nope...same as for retreaters...way I see it, if they're still "retreating" in a new relationship, then aren't they still just technically "retreating" from any past issues as well?
I've never seen myself as a 'rescuer' or a 'mommy'....sue me, but the older I got, the more I preferred emotionally healthy adults, is all. ;) | |
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| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 8:08:52 PM | I am not being a child by choosing not to deal with unevolved aggressive people.
I also find it interesting that the choice to not interact with aggressive conflict driven people is childish. I would say it is pretty mature. Plain and simply put, I don`t like nasty people who like to bully their way through life, and I won`t be around them any more than I have to. Aggressive bullying people can`t win 100% of the time, even though they would like to. Some of us just don`t put up with it and leave. I am certainly not going to apologise for that. I plain and simply don`t want to be around jerks. Call it passive aggressive or whatever you want to call it . If you are nasty for no reason, I am out of there. I don`t do it, and I would appreciate the same respect. If I don`t get it, apparently I am around the wrong kind of person.
If you can`t be descent , stay away from me. I`ve had enough of jerks. | |
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| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 8:09:51 PM | Desert -- I won't put it as harshly as some others, but you're being defensive, and as long as you see others as bad and you as good you will continue to allow your parents to control you well into adulthood.
You're continuing to feel that others have control over you and they don't -- you have the control inside of you and retreating from this conflict won't help because it will keep coming up in your life over and over until you face it.
Wishing you well. | |
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| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 8:12:45 PM | I have recognized this in myself,, this retreat and go. I have analyzed it and come to somewhat of a conclusion.
It is not so much a retreat, as a sabotage. I have a tendency to make sure something goes completely awry with relationships. I was hurt very deeply by a man I met after my divorce whom I had a relationship with.
Since that time I have not let too many into my "bubble" and past my walls.
I have been working on this and have been confronted by a friend who immediately called me on it.
Time heals all, and this too shall pass.
I hope that helps with your question OP, mine is just one instance. | |
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| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 8:14:35 PM | | wow, pinciperro, that was refreshingly honest. Your bravery in facing your issue is half the battle. You'll be fine with time and I'm sorry you were hurt by that man. The human tendency when emotional hurt is to withdraw and you've recognized that in yourself, good for you!!!! | |
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| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 8:25:47 PM | I just have to jump in here and interject on the thread because Ive been following it.
The OP was NEVER about abusive situations or bullying...it was about normal communication.
And I think what you're becoming defensive wildflower on...is EXACTLY the point that people are trying to get across.
People like you...and with your history...are unable to appropriately determine a NORMAL conversation and interaction without jumping into defense/retreat mode.
Communication is not about assault. And sure...
...sometimes general discussion will escalate to debate...but thats perfectly normal. It happens everyday.
I even offered my own son as an example of someone without any abusive history but simply having a predisposition for this behavior.
If someone cannot interact with normal human beings without laying blame at others feet or playing victim...its a classified disorder...and it needs to be treated.
The reasons WHY people do it...are not nearly as important as the fact that they make the effort to overcome it. Just like my son did. | |
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| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 8:30:14 PM | Kyn you're absolutely right of course.
Having a similiar history I will say that I know exactly why Desert feels the way she does, and for her and her history (as is mine) it certainly feels normal. The only way we know it's not normal is when healthy people tell us. So that is the key, listening when people who mean well say, What you are doing is not okay. | |
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| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 8:31:00 PM | Why in the world would you put yourself in harms way and put yourself through alot of stress and conflict, endanger yourself, if you don`t have to. I`m sorry if people who like to sparr don`t find a willing combatant with me. Not everyone is going to be a sparring partner and everyone is not wired to enjoy it.
For people to say it is normal to accept conflict and abnormal and disfunctional to avoid conflict is a judgement in itself. Just because you prefer not to spar does not make you inferior. You are just wired different. All I am saying is that people do much better if they are wired similarly. People who enjoy fighting and conflict should be together, as well as those who dont. But to slam pacifists as disfunctional,just shows more of the aggression that makes them not want to be around you in the first place. Extremely judgemental and distasteful.
Hey some people like to go to WWF big fight and some like going to the symphony.
It takes all kinds. | |
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| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 8:42:57 PM | also find it interesting that the choice to not interact with aggressive conflict driven people is childish. I would say it is pretty mature. Plain and simply put, I don`t like nasty people who like to bully their way through life, and I won`t be around them any more than I have to.
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What makes you think this topic, thread, is about "aggressive conflict driven people", or "nasty people", who bully their way through life???
This is about talking to someone about things that they want to ignore, and they do, and they retreat. So we can't even talk to you...not at the symphony, and not at WWE.
"""I`m sorry if people who like to sparr don`t find a willing combatant with me.""" I think you are sparring solo.....Woman, look at yourself? Is that who you want to be?
"Stay away from me"...no problem if thats your attitude. Me? I prefer to be a friend among friends, a worker among workers, and a family member among the family. | |
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| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 8:47:31 PM |
A solid relationship shouldn't be "work." It should just "work" on it's own. (And yes, I had a maintenance-free love ~ it was amazing how easy it can be.)
Every relationship requires work on BOTH partys to work together. Communication, honesty, and trust. Working out problems when they come. Every single relationship has problems. The ones who can work them out are the ones who can survive it.
Those who run away from their problems all the time, are going to have a lot of lifelong problems mount up while leaving trails of undealt with issues.
It's a psychological thing and can often come rooted from childhood. I have an old ex right now that describes herself as a free spirit who lives for now. She runs from EVERY issue! But it's kind of a false run because she eventually has the same problems bothering her for years always bringing them up because they are not dealt with. It's like a car that has a problem ignored that just gets worse and more bothersome.
Worst thing is that most runners will not learn to cope and deal with their problems in order to move on from them and put their mind at rest with that problem. Even worse it always effects others negatively but the ones I have known usually don't care or don't realize it. | |
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| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 8:50:32 PM | well what we can see from what happened here in this thread is that what the person does is project the blame for their behavior onto the other person.
It is a sad truth that those of us who have been hurt the most can be very harmful to others.
Though you can bring a horse to water . . . you can't make them drink. Each person must get to the point where they can see the truth about themselves and their behavior on their own. | |
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| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 8:53:03 PM | [QUOTE]It is a form of punishment and I suspect it happens because the person felt hurt in some way. When they feel hurt, they get angry. They then follow up with the punishment, either ignoring the person or breaking up with them. They are like an employer who takes great delight in dismissing employees who don't do what they want.[/QUOTE]
I do not believe it is always hurt, I would also say that even if they did exactly what is expected some peope just cannot be pleased. The person withdrawing is spoiled, cruel, unfeeling, uncommitted, and just plain selfish. Some people cannot survive without making someone else miserable whether it be a stranger, relative, spouse, child, workmate, or anything that brings these people into lives that have a heart. If you hav this problem the only course of action will be to leave that person alone. If they really love you then the will bring something tothe table to work with. If they don't then they are as shallow as you portray them. | |
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| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 8:54:03 PM |
Worst thing is that most runners will not learn to cope and deal with their problems in order to move on from them and put their mind at rest with that problem. Even worse it always effects others negatively but the ones I have known usually don't care or don't realize it.
I hate to say it but, exactly! ^^^ And, I also have to ask...why would the opposite or anti-thesis to "retreating" be "fighting" or "arguing" etcetc anyway? Or even "not understanding"??? | |
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| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 9:08:13 PM | why would the opposite or anti-thesis to "retreating" be "fighting" or "arguing" etcetc anyway?
I think it's because all they (those who shut down and withdraw) have in their frame of reference is one extreme or the other. They have not experienced or been taught healthy conflict resolution. Therefore in their mind, any conflict equals danger. It's way out of control, very irrational, very dysfunctional, very toxic, and very self destructive. As I've said, coping mechanisms that serve us well as traumatized children do not work once we reach adulthood. | |
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| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 9:14:53 PM | ^^
Each person must get to the point where they can see the truth about themselves and their behavior on their own.
Exactly, so why are you breaking forum rules as far as I can see and keep writing individual posters and now about individual posters trying to get them to see things through your eyes and projecting your experience onto them.... instead of sticking to responding to the Original Post and Original Poster?
We all do it up to a point (me too), but you seem to be excessive in this behavior from the reading of threads I've seen tonight and I thought perhaps you have not read the rules, as you appear to be new here. | |
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| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 9:16:30 PM | ^^
Each person must get to the point where they can see the truth about themselves and their behavior on their own.
Exactly, so why are you breaking forum rules as far as I can see and keep writing individual posters and now about individual posters trying to get them to see things through your eyes and projecting your experience onto them.... instead of sticking to responding to the Original Post and Original Poster?
We all do it up to a point (me too), but you seem to be excessive in this behavior from the reading of threads I've seen tonight and I thought perhaps you have not read the rules, as you appear to be new here. | |
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| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 9:20:47 PM | | ^^^^^^Thank You^^^^^^ I will now follow my pattern and shut down and withdraw. It ain`t worth the battle! | |
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| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 9:27:08 PM | no, you're right, I hadn't read that particular rule. But it seems I'm not the only one breaking it (you've done it a number of times yourself as you correctly state) so . . .
and you're entitled to your own perspective about my "excessive" intentions but it certainly isn't correct. I count about four messages in this thread frm u in the space of five minutes -- tsk, tsk, you're also breaking a forum rule, I think - LOL | |
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| The Retreating Game
Posted: 7/4/2008 9:34:47 PM | ^^
Each person must get to the point where they can see the truth about themselves and their behavior on their own.
Exactly, so why are you breaking forum rules as far as I can see and keep writing individual posters and now about individual posters trying to get them to see things through your eyes and projecting your experience onto them.... instead of sticking to responding to the Original Post and Original Poster?
We all do it up to a point (me too), but you seem to be doing it quite a bit from the reading of threads I've seen tonight and I thought perhaps you have not read the rules, as you appear to be new here, that's all.
By the way, I did not get that her protecting herself is for the purpose of blaming others at all....she specifically said to start that it is her own process....to retreat.
When many retreaters here said they feel it comes from fear and then have it turned around and brought way out of context and almost had the interrogation spotlight put on them as if they are wrong is not what these forums are meant to be about - even if that is what seems to happen sometimes.
I think perhaps if we all tried to stick with the rules, there would be less apparent attacking and defending going on. | |
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