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| Bridge Closure Due to Jumper???
Posted: 7/7/2008 11:23:07 AM | Good Morning Serenity!
So good to hear your thoughts.
I have stayed away since my initial post because I can see "heat " coming early on in threads
and I like to let the resultant flames die away before commenting further.
I come from a family full of career military men, one of the few girls in my immediate surroundings.
I soaked all that up from an early age. Procedure, protocols, emergency/disaster control, all strategies which took several generations to address and still, yet to perfect. Circumstances and equipment evolve with changing population and environment so it is likely there will never be a definitive "way".
We sure could get a lot closer to having services that meet the needs of both sides better.
The police basically operated from a military model,as far as I can tell, until recently. I notice (due to recruiting and retention difficulties) an overwhelming majority of officers are age 25 or less for about the past 15 years. Many of those have but a few months, or years of experience away from a desk..
Note: I say many not all!It is way more typical to have NO senior officers at all on the call since
they can only send who they have!
I do notice, since where I live now( and the same for where I moved from), has a high street population/ crime area, that the police do things very much like current police tv shows and movies when they arrive for a call . They operate quite differently than in the past as far as using common sense and following the laws themselves in order to curb the hazard and inconvenience they create for the public. It is particularly galling when they create hazards (through habit) when they EASILY have an alternative.
ie parking one lane of two on a main one way street slanted just enough to butt into the other busy lane, leave the car running, question a pedestrian or bike rider and have them empty all backpack and pocket contents on hood of car same for cars they pull over for possible infractions. This when there are several legal parking spaces empty and waiting right next to where they have parked.
When an overdose or medical issue of any kind (recently it was a 2 week old body
found(poses very little thread or demand lol) and my managers heart scare(not the same call!)
no less than two fire trucks , two ambulance vans, and two or three cop cars arrive and STAY all with engines running(to flash lights) for as long as it takes to realize only half the personnel is needed and half leave after 45 minutes sometimes longer, rarely sooner, the remaining do not move or shut off their vehicles.
I don't write to invite critisizim(sp sorry) about where I live.
So, please give me a break on that and stay on topic,
My heart is with Halokitty, myself and the myriad of women I know and advocate(officially) for
in this argument because WE have personally been on our own "bridge"(quotes to indicate this also means figuratively). often more than once.
Some of us are just, often neccesarily, more reticent about declaring that to make a point.
I agree emergency Police and Emergengy Crew protocols regarding health and mental health situations need to be amended(enough with the review already!) and that training needs to address CURRENT common call circumstances. Also , the prejudicial attitude of individual officers toward various factors, such as age, economic standing and race is a rampant problem and does need to be habitually reviewed and corrected.
All of this takes money , which takes political will to change/expand the direction of govt spending.
Meantime, after you write your daily letter to the appropriate politician, in that regard,
thank your lucky stars it's not you or yours (if you can't include strangers in your compassion) on that bridge!
. | |
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| Bridge Closure Due to Jumper???
Posted: 7/7/2008 4:40:58 PM | Some of you already know that I work on "live" roads, improving, widening,etc. Well during certain times I have to use my imagination, a little luck and some planning, but I can still get my work done, AND still keep traffic moving(albeit,,,sometimes a little slow). THUS, my comment that 6 hours was wayyyyyyy tooooo long to have the bridge shutdown.
As Rita has pointed out,,,the police and fire personal do NOT want to think about traffic anymore when the arrive on the scene. They come in hell bent for leather,,,park their trucks,cars etc wherever,,,and HOPE they have blocked everything from moving. If you talk to them on the side they(well some) will actually admit that they do NOT want to deal with traffic zooming by while they are attending. One,,,it's dangerous. Two,,,they don't have a clue how to control traffic. (next time when driving by a scene watch the fireman holding the paddle,,,,,he shouldn't be doing it!!!)
Then you also have to take into account the public's reaction to such events. Ummmmm, this thread is one of them. You have some here on one hand thinking that the world should be shut down because someone has decided they may want to take their lives by jumping off a bridge into water. ( I won't point out that this is NOT the way to kill yourself if you are actually thinking of doing it.) Then you have the other hand (including Falcon) that have said that there is no way in hell that bridge should have been shut down for that long. And on this "other" hand,,,,no one says that we should just abandon the mentally ill.But we have a few from the "first" hand saying that the "other" hand is cruel, heartless, unsympathetic,etc. And I ask,,like a few others here,,,WHY??????
Sooooo, you have these emergency people with public watchdogs who are ready to whine and complain at the first sign of trouble,,,but have no idea why they are complaining other then to stay with the "norm",political correct and not looked upon as cruel, heartless, unsympathetic. You want to "save" everyone from everything,,,but I'm asking you at what cost????? And please,,,let's have some reality within your answers.
I wonder if there has been a study on potential "jumpers" and how many of them ACTUALLY jumped after standing on a bridge for.,,,,,,,let's say an hour???????? Anybody???? I'm sure there is enough evidence out there that will tell us the "average". Of course someone is gonna have to have the gonads and make an actual call on how these types of situations are handled. If we hear enough whining,,like we have heard on this thread,,,those gonads will shrink daily. No matter what these people do(or not do) to help these mentally "ill" when they are hanging around on a bridge deck you are going to have people say we do too much,,,or too little. Either/or,,,,,guaranteed,,,just go back a re-read^^^^^. | |
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| Bridge Closure Due to Jumper???
Posted: 7/7/2008 9:05:55 PM | | ^I suspect there are studies of jumpers and how long it takes them to jump. For some reason, I think they might take a while to decide. Someone should google it. | |
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| Bridge Closure Due to Jumper???
Posted: 7/7/2008 9:22:33 PM | Not exactly statistics but an amazing read nonetheless:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/06/magazine/06suicide-t.html?pagewanted=print | |
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| Bridge Closure Due to Jumper???
Posted: 7/7/2008 9:46:29 PM | "thanks for the article Halo"....
"In September 2000, Kevin Hines, a 19-year-old college student suffering from bipolar disorder, leapt from the Golden Gate. Along with Ken Baldwin, he is one of only 29 known survivors of the fall. Today Hines controls his bipolar disorder with medication and a strictly controlled regimen of diet and exercise and sleep, even while maintaining a frenetic schedule. Having recently married, he is frequently on the road lecturing for a suicide-prevention network while simultaneously working toward a psychology degree. One of his most intense ambitions, though, is to finally see a suicide barrier erected on the Golden Gate.
“I’ll tell you what I can’t get out of my head,” he told me in his San Francisco living room. “It’s watching my hands come off that railing and thinking to myself, My God, what have I just done? Because I know that almost everyone else who’s gone off that bridge, they had that exact same thought at that moment. All of a sudden, they didn’t want to die, but it was too late. Somehow I made it; they didn’t; and now I feel it’s my responsibility to speak for them.” ""
Moral is....Put up a suicide fence on the bridge.
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| Bridge Closure Due to Jumper???
Posted: 7/8/2008 8:21:39 AM | | I feel for the woman who felt her only course of action was to think of suicide.....having said that having the traffic come to a complete stop while they try and talk her down is something all together different. What about the old people that had to sit in their cars and risk their health due to heat exhaustion...or the Doctors who were scheduled to preform operations that could not make it....there patients might have died....they need to get other alternatives in place so this type of gridlock does not happen again. Several people could have died, to save one!!!! | |
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| Bridge Closure Due to Jumper???
Posted: 7/8/2008 9:46:32 AM |
there patients might have died
Nope. When that happens the surgery is either rescheduled, or if it's an emergency, another surgeon takes over. They don't just let the patient die because that particular surgeon hasn't shown up. | |
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| Bridge Closure Due to Jumper???
Posted: 7/8/2008 11:31:58 AM | | Perhaps a bad example but none the less....other situations could have taken place many people could have been put in harms way just to save one. | |
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| Bridge Closure Due to Jumper???
Posted: 7/8/2008 4:41:22 PM | Well said CR Pete !! I am sure many people were seriously suffering for those 6 hours, especially children and the elderly, all because of one person. I drive for a living and am constanly getting into traffic jams, mostly because of other selfish people who drive like morons. The police should have a gun that fires a net, like capturing an animal, together with a tranquilizer dart to sedate them, or some other way to catch them.
What the suicide should do in the first place is to not go on the bridge but PHONE SOMEONE!!, crisis line, a doctor, a church, a friend, police, ANYONE! | |
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| Bridge Closure Due to Jumper???
Posted: 7/8/2008 5:42:47 PM | someonelikeyou YOU get my vote to leave the island. To the rest of you that think it is a major inconvience to save a persons life SHAME ON YOU! I wonder just where you are going to draw the line when it comes to one of YOUR loved ones????? Maybe you should let all the Police and Fire Depts know ahead of time just how long you want us to tie up traffic for to save your loved one. I have been to or seen first hand the results of both successful and unsuccessfull suicide attempts most of you have no idea the effect it has on the families and the Emergency Response Personal involved. I am not surprised however because I see the same sad behavior at most of the accidents I attend.
Al | |
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| Bridge Closure Due to Jumper???
Posted: 7/8/2008 8:32:36 PM | I agree with you Al, seems no one really cares until the tragedy hits close to home.
Next there will be a thread on how the EMT etc... tried to get traffic moving at the scene and the person ended up dying because no one cared. Didn't know trying to save a life should be timed by a stopwatch... Ok times up, shows over, jumper dead , lets get this traffic moving ... seems a little callous to me but then again I have empathy for those that seek help. | |
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| Bridge Closure Due to Jumper???
Posted: 7/8/2008 8:47:23 PM | REPOST......"thanks for the article Halo"....
"In September 2000, Kevin Hines, a 19-year-old college student suffering from bipolar disorder, leapt from the Golden Gate. Along with Ken Baldwin, he is one of only 29 known survivors of the fall. Today Hines controls his bipolar disorder with medication and a strictly controlled regimen of diet and exercise and sleep, even while maintaining a frenetic schedule. Having recently married, he is frequently on the road lecturing for a suicide-prevention network while simultaneously working toward a psychology degree. One of his most intense ambitions, though, is to finally see a suicide barrier erected on the Golden Gate.
“I’ll tell you what I can’t get out of my head,” he told me in his San Francisco living room. “It’s watching my hands come off that railing and thinking to myself, My God, what have I just done? Because I know that almost everyone else who’s gone off that bridge, they had that exact same thought at that moment. All of a sudden, they didn’t want to die, but it was too late. Somehow I made it; they didn’t; and now I feel it’s my responsibility to speak for them.” ""
Moral is....Put up a suicide fence on the bridge.
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| Bridge Closure Due to Jumper???
Posted: 7/8/2008 9:23:43 PM | | That's a great idea putting up suicide fences, might stop the jumpers. What about if there are fatalities on the bridge deck itself eg. pile up, head on etc... emergency crews will shut down the bridge. Then what? Think you end up with the same scenario of traffic held up. Bit like the ferries when there is a bomb threat on board or sailings are stopped because of high winds and it's too dangerous for crossings. People chose to live in the lower mainland knowing that it is all connected together with bridges, so when an incident occurs, guess what there will be delays. If you don't want to deal with the potential events taking place move to the prairies. It's flat for miles............... | |
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| Bridge Closure Due to Jumper???
Posted: 7/8/2008 10:02:29 PM | ^I think it is probably best to deal with one problem at a time and to minimize the number of problems we have.
However, if these suicide fences are so effective, why aren't they up? Is it a cost issue? | |
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| Bridge Closure Due to Jumper???
Posted: 7/8/2008 11:27:16 PM | Good question there Xavery! You would think that if maintaining the flow of traffic was such an important issue then DOT would have thought of this preventive measure years ago. Bet it will happen before the Olympics .. Just like everything else that needs to be done around here, it seems to hinge on if there is an election or the Olympics.
Will be interesting now to see what will happen to rectify this situation. | |
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| Bridge Closure Due to Jumper???
Posted: 7/9/2008 8:02:28 AM | I am sure the idea of fences or barriers to prevent jumpers from being able to carry out their mission. If someone is desperate enough they will do wat they wish to do. Consider a catch net beneath the bridge. While it has the effect of preventing a jumper from plummeting to his/her death on the initial jump it still does not prvent the jumper from taking a leap from the highest point of the bridge attempting to leap past the furthest point of the catch net or leaping to the bridge deck below.
A main fence gating off the super structure of the bridge. Well this is a little more realistic if 12' chain link is used with razor wire at the top is in place around the entire perimiter of the access to the main structure. However again with enough determination a person will find a way around or over this.
Putting up a steel mesh grating to protect cars from falling persons on the above super structure. An expensive option that does not protect the jumper from performing their high dive act but does protect drivers below from possible injury. This is an unrealistic plan as police would still close off the bridge to keep public viewing of a suicide act from publics eyes. The best option IMHO is the extremely high fence with razor wire. I do not see it happening however as the Province will not want to have visitors think we have a problem with people commiting suicide here and this would be a visual indicator to tourists.
Something must be done though and there will be a bandaid fix done by 2010. | |
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| Bridge Closure Due to Jumper???
Posted: 7/11/2008 7:51:07 PM | first of all... halokitty thanks for sharing your experiences and wisdom
secondly... to kevin(expetive deleted) falcon and those that made the following statements -
with much less disruption to traffic ... emotional distress of one person is not reason enough to let thousands of people... the sack of shit... caused havoc for 50,000 people... look at all the attention they can get.... Of course she just wanted the attn
does anybody really think that allowing slow moving traffic through is going to help things? what if your "attention seeking" " sack of shit" wife/daughter/mother/father/son/husband or even one of you are standing out there wanting to end it all and the authorities decide not close the bridge. tell us how you'd feel about the people out there having to work that much harder to save you or your loved one, while callous shitheads are driving by screaming obscenities about being inconvienced and how their time is so much more important(and don't even think about saying that wouldn't happen). come back and share your views with us then.
the police and fire personal do NOT want to think about traffic anymore when the arrive on the scene.
why should they have to worry about getting run over while trying to do their jobs? the first step at any emergency scene is to make it safe and secure for those doing the rescuing and the simplest way to do this is to seal it off. once it is closed off, they have one less thing to worry about.
as for the backed-up traffic... i'm thinking somebody in uniform should've started at the back of the line and said "you back up and turn around" and worked their way up the line. slow yes, but still better than just sitting there. | |
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| Bridge Closure Due to Jumper???
Posted: 7/11/2008 9:44:27 PM | I've decided to take the proactive route with this issue and written several letters to the people that have the power to make changes. I believe that many others have done the same. I think that the only way to make major positive changes to situations like this is to write as many letters/and petitions as it'll take to make these changes come about. It is the slow/tedious way to do things, but I believe that it can/will be done with constant pressure through this route that the changes can/and will be made.
So for those of you that are both angry and those of you that are of the more understanding of the situation but all still feel that there needs to be a change of some sort, you might want to consider going my route and see how well/fast it works.
Spud  | |
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| Bridge Closure Due to Jumper???
Posted: 7/11/2008 9:47:09 PM | | Wow...does it ever make sense to get someone in uniform to start at the back of the line and tell people to back up rather than just sit there. What a great solution. | |
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| Bridge Closure Due to Jumper???
Posted: 7/11/2008 10:09:31 PM | | ^^^ well, considering that some people were sitting there for hours, it obvious that those at the back of the line weren't thinking of it themselves. as for the uniform, do you want to explain to the jerk in the suv why you're coming off the cassiar connector the wrong? | |
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