shimbo
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Joined: 6/15/2008
Msg: 26 | |
| How well do you LISTEN to your partner?
Posted: 7/4/2008 11:01:24 AM |
I didn't start out thinking that women are irrational
I didn't, either.
It's hard-won experience.
I recently revisited the "Double Your Dating" book and I realized what the author is really saying... don't take women seriously. Be condescending. And now I suspect that's how many men handle their relationships. They smile, they say the right words but the majority of women are clueless that they're being humored.
I totally get it now.
You *can't* take them seriously.
It's far too much work and trouble. | |
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| How well do you LISTEN to your partner?
Posted: 7/4/2008 11:08:54 AM | | I wouldn't call it humoring or condescending. You want to know what they mean, but to get that you have to look past what they say and focus on how they feel, and do that only when they have stopped making sense. Women make perfect sense except when they don't, which is to say they can, and do unless when upset. But where listening falls apart is when you stay on the rational track and the message is off in la la land cruising blindly for a hug. If you listen to the message and not the underlying meaning, you miss the point and become frustrated and condescending. But if you listen to the way a woman feels you can let her words fly by and know exactly what she means without being distracted by what she says. | |
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shimbo
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Joined: 6/15/2008
Msg: 28 | |
| How well do you LISTEN to your partner?
Posted: 7/4/2008 11:16:34 AM | I agree that condescending is too strong a word.
without being distracted by what she says
Yes, but if they truly understood your argument here, they'd be angry.
Think about this whole fricking thread on "listening".
I was intimidated by women for decades but in these past couple of years, I think of them more and more as children or mildly retarded adults.  | |
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| How well do you LISTEN to your partner?
Posted: 7/4/2008 11:40:47 AM | | She's not yet my partner, but the woman I have been gettign close to I listen to intently. I recently bought her some gifts for a special occasion that she talked about quite a while back and she was amazed when she received them that I was listening close enough to have caught her mentioning them. She told me that practically no one has ever listened to her like that and when we do sit and talk I make sure to pay close attention to what's being said so I can not only offer some good advice, but to also recall it later and maybe use it as a reference to show I was listening. Actually "listening" and communicating are so vital to a good, long lasting healthy relationship I have come to find out. | |
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| How well do you LISTEN to your partner?
Posted: 7/4/2008 5:54:41 PM | you're a good man.
I'm a natural born "listener",have been my whole life and I can tell you listening should be the main priority of anyone in a relationship at all times,not just in an argument or "discussion".when you really care enough to always listen you learn to know your partner deeply.even if they are talking about mundane boring things to you,pick up on the excitement in their voice about certain things,the disappointment in others,it really helps a relationship imo.
the better you know someone,the easier to understand them,and easier to get along.
unfortunately,a lot of people enjoy the sound of their own voice more..... | |
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| How well do you LISTEN to your partner?
Posted: 7/4/2008 6:05:25 PM | | see wit me a just dont get why he treats me the way he does i mean we dont talk or anything. so honestly i dont know anything cause theres nothing to listen to. | |
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| How well do you LISTEN to your partner?
Posted: 7/4/2008 8:59:10 PM | Nope, no one under my bed either breath-. Sigh...
Now to be serious.
That men and women can understand each other when they are friends proves that we can communicate. Unfortunately when people become "a couple" there is a tendency to expect the other person to read our minds. Both men and women do it. This is a contributing factor to communication breakdown. A person cannot listen if the other won’t talk about what they are thinking, feeling, wanting, etc. By the same token, if a person does not feel safe they are more likely to skirt issues. If a peson is not listening, how can the other person feel safe sharing themselves? Communication should be a safe habour for both parties. | |
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| How well do you LISTEN to your partner?
Posted: 7/4/2008 9:34:53 PM | I've said it numerous times on several threads....effective, 2-way communication is one of, if not THE, most important aspect of a successful relationship. I don't buy into a lot of this man vs. woman perspective. We are all people born with mouths, tongues and ears. In a relationship, I also don't buy into the notion that it is one person's 'responsibility' to ensure the other comprehends what they are conveying. It's a partnership, afterall, and to me, each share equal responsibility to understand and be understood.
"but instead of hearing what the other person was trying to convey, we would hear what we thought they meant."
This was a BIG issue with my ex. When something came to a head, I often heard, "It's not what's said....it's how it's perceived." IMO, I'm to blame for not 'effectively' communicating what I meant. She also, was to blame, for allowing assumptions and perceptions to shape her interpretations when a question or two for clarification would have preempted the argument or discussion. This is what I've learned 'active listening' to entail....undivided attention....questions and repeating statements such as, "So what you're saying is_____", "If I'm hearing you right, you're saying____", etc. Getting that clarification is key. Otherwise, you're responding to something which wasn't meant. Shaping your opinions, rebuttals or whatever on a ghost of a meaning....making assumptions.
"And it's not good with me to drone on about emotions ~ just say it and let's move on. Making problems where there shouldn't be a problem"
I struggle somewhat with this statement. Again, we're all the same species. I have emotions the same as a woman. I 'feel' things. The notion that I'm not supposed to display or discuss them because I'm male, is ridiculous to me. They are part of me....they help to shape who I am. Finding someone with whom you feel safe enough to openly talk about them with, is what it's all about (to me). On the other hand, I don't think being overly emotional is very healthy, either. Like most things, balance is the key. But if I don't share or communicate what I'm feeling with my SO (and she with me)....don't feel 'safe' enough to....I'm fairly certain it won't last.
"This is why I specifically avoid profiles with "communication" in them. It's rarely about communication, it's more about ego satiation or some weird incomprehensible personal need which I have ZERO interest in indulging."
To each their own, I suppose....but if I read this statement in someone's profile, I'd be outa there pretty toot-sweet. It's a 180 from my outlook and what I believe.
Communication in a relationship is key. Listening (not just hearing) is 50% of that at least. We all want to be 'heard'....more than that....we all want to be understood.
~ds~ | |
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| How well do you LISTEN to your partner?
Posted: 7/5/2008 7:13:50 AM | there are times when i am not focussed in to what she is saying so i need to pay more attention to this flaw of mine. it would help if she wants to tell me something important and the Browns are not on TV at the moment!!! bad timing! | |
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| How well do you LISTEN to your partner?
Posted: 7/5/2008 7:20:57 AM | | My recent relationship comes painfully to mind. Anytime we were discussing issues or things that I wanted or needed to know how she felt or what her feelings were, she said that I do not listen. Said I am already formulating my response to what she was saying before she even finished. I think she was right. Consequently, I'd not hear her answer and sometime later might ask her the same question. I'm talking about serious relationship issues. So maybe because I was s o impassioned with her response that I only heard the things she said that made me feel good. I'd ignore the things I did not want to hear. I wonder if I listened better, if she would not now be an ex. | |
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| How well do you LISTEN to your partner?
Posted: 7/5/2008 7:53:14 AM |
My recent relationship comes painfully to mind. Anytime we were discussing issues or things that I wanted or needed to know how she felt or what her feelings were, she said that I do not listen. Said I am already formulating my response to what she was saying before she even finished. I think she was right. Consequently, I'd not hear her answer and sometime later might ask her the same question. I'm talking about serious relationship issues. So maybe because I was s o impassioned with her response that I only heard the things she said that made me feel good. I'd ignore the things I did not want to hear. I wonder if I listened better, if she would not now be an ex.
Well put Jim! I've often pondered the same thing. I would also like to say, that after reading through all the posts that there have been some pretty insightful things stated by both men and women! I know there have been times I made GROSS assumptions about the things my partner had said-but instead of really listening to the point he was making, I was too upset to REALLY listen.
I'm not an inherently confrontational person, so I tend to shut down if an arguement ensues. I would rather be in a clear calm state of mind before speaking to the man I love. Yes, it would outwardly appear I'm avoiding issues, but I want to make sure that when I discuss with him how I'm feeling he hears me and I hear him-because in the past I only heard what I thought he was saying and my feelings were hurt, when clearly they shouldn't have been.
I also know when either gender is distracted during a conversation we sometimes loose a lot of what was being said, and if one party asks if you heard them or what they said and you can't summarize the conversation that can lead to discontent and anger. So, when at all possible I try to keep from 'ranting' and let him say what's on his mind. With the manfriend and I we sometimes suffer from a language barrier which just makes it even more important for me to listen when he's talking to me. I'm still trying to hone my listening skills and I'm sure there will be times I'm still misunderstood, but I think being aware of it makes things better.
I appreciate everyone's comments-even my buddy Shimbo's comments-though most I would have to graciously agree to disagree upon.  | |
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| How well do you LISTEN to your partner?
Posted: 7/5/2008 10:32:59 AM | I think that some of the time it is not only about listening but about genuinely making space where the other person truly feels comfortable to communicate. This is where I fail: I am very strong in the way I express my feelings and beliefs, very intense -- and I find that this can make other people feel that they cannot bring up topics with me simply because they feel that they know my stance on the subject and I was so intense or passionate or firm about it that they believe I will not be able to listen so I don't even get the chance as they have already decided there is no point in their speaking.
This bothers me as I am quite open to learning and adapting my views in the light of new information. I think that expressing oneself is what gets in the way of being able to listen. The more quiet and reserved and gentle/subdued in manner I am, the more people will talk to me. But true communication goes both ways and I am not communicating myself if I hold back my passionate opinions and feelings/beliefs on topics. I was the most excellent listener when I dared not speak and now I dare speak, the effect of it silences some who might have shared with one who expressed less. Balance is a difficult thing.
Listening is important, but it is not everything. People will tell a dumb creature anything and guard their speech with any who have the potential to criticise; dumb creatures are the best listeners but who wants to be a dumb creature? | |
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| How well do you LISTEN to your partner?
Posted: 7/5/2008 10:44:58 AM | | About things that it feels best to hold forth, go for it, and then when others want to, listen, and that way it works out because talking is saying something important and listening is hearing what matters. Listening is a chore when the person doing the talking is droning on, whining or babbling in a manner that fails to entertain. Just like talking to deaf ears is unsatisfying. People will turn deaf if you are boring them, attacking them, and they should. They will also stop talking if they think it can do no good. This is why we have sex as an alternative to talking and listening. I hope that wasn't too abrupt to follow. I threw it in there just to see if you were still listening. | |
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| How well do you LISTEN to your partner?
Posted: 7/5/2008 12:15:55 PM | only the last 5 years or so have a learned to importance of listening to people, not just partners, I found I was far too busy relating the story or event being told to something I'd done and wanting to get my story out, I wasn't listening.
Once you make a concerted effort to take in everything thats said something kewl happens !
My small niggle is no matter how good a listener you are, like my ex, some people wont or cant talk and let out how they feel. Some people expect it to be used against them, showing how they feel will be showing weakness.
I was told once that 'it is up to you if you are going to let somebody hurt you, or be affected by what someone says to or about you' weird concept unless you already figured that one out. | |
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| How well do you LISTEN to your partner?
Posted: 7/6/2008 12:11:35 AM | | im great on communicating....perhaps rare for a man...but the problem is that many women haven't been good communicators...many are unwilling to admit when wrong. | |
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| How well do you LISTEN to your partner?
Posted: 7/9/2008 3:35:30 PM | Wow rune3, that was wonderfully honest. Listening is important because when we don’t listen, we don’t validate others. In effect we tell the other person (including the person(s) closest to our hearts) that what they think and feel is unimportant. How loving is that?
True some people love to babble and have nothing to say, but some are gun-shy from being put down and will talk about things totally unrelated to what they really think and feel. If you care enough to listen, they usually open up. You’ve earned their trust.
After 2 unsuccessful marriages to men that would monopolize all conversations and not listen to me, that song “I wanna talk about Me” by Toby Keith struck a nerve and is one of my favorites. Just change the whining girl talk to, “talk about your cars, how no one likes you at work, no one understands you, etc” and there’s my version. | |
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| How well do you LISTEN to your partner?
Posted: 7/9/2008 4:08:00 PM | I also know when either gender is distracted during a conversation we sometimes loose a lot of what was being said, and if one party asks if you heard them or what they said and you can't summarize the conversation that can lead to discontent and anger.
You bet OP. I think people do listen to each other, but don't express their thoughts well enough to be understood.
Judging from of the vernacular used in these posts, it's fairly obvious that posters misinterpret others posters words, intent, messages. As in relationships, one may attend to, listen to the message, but the message makes little sense.
IMO. I think it's partially due to inability of the sender to express his/her thoughts. May sound good to the sender but all the receiver hears is truncated sentences, cliches, anecdotal phrases, screwy metaphors, etc. | |
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| How well do you LISTEN to your partner?
Posted: 7/9/2008 8:43:50 PM | | Listening to each others feelings and stuff is one important thing to keep a relationship... marriage to work. But, sad reality is we don't always listen for varies of reasons... in the end it ruins your relationship and part ways. It always hurts to know the person your with doesn't listen to what you have to say or how you feel about things. All can really do is leave. | |
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| How well do you LISTEN to your partner?
Posted: 7/9/2008 9:01:58 PM | my friend teaches "active listening" and tells me i am a natural at it. i just wish i knew more active listeners! every time i open my mouth, my man tells me to "shhh". squish. out goes the flame. so now you know why i am always on the forums!   | |
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| How well do you LISTEN to your partner?
Posted: 7/10/2008 12:18:03 AM | Listening is important, hearing what you are actually saying is crucial. When in conversation with your partner, it is not only important to listen to what your partner has to say, but it is also crucial to provide feedback and let your partner, know how you feel or what you think of issue at hand. Problems don't get solved without effective communication. Effective communication involves listening, hearing and providing feedback on both parts. Shutting your partner out or tuning your partner out does not rectify issues.
Success in any type of relationship whether it be an intimate relationship, long term or friendship, requires honesty and open communications on both parties. If you can not learn to openly discuss issues and take to heart what your partner is telling you, then your relationship is due for failure from the start. | |
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| How well do you LISTEN to your partner?
Posted: 7/10/2008 6:20:27 PM | hi rune, i totally bond with you on this point: expressing yourself to where another person does not want to speak or engage in "conversation" and may indeed even be silently judging. however, it's not always on you. sometimes people have a feeling or opinion that they cannot back up with words. so they think they will "lose the argument" and therefore don't say anything. then, to add fuel to the fire, they back off altogether.
you are a very bright person and can express the cognitive aspects of your feelings and your beliefs. so, maybe try saying if there is a very heated or passionate debate going on, that you understand that not everyone feels the same way (eg. that you often try to explain why "you" feel or believe something, but you also understand that often feelings cannot be put into words). therefore, you need people to understand that just because these are your feelings and thoughts, it doesn't have to be theirs. furthermore, you still want to know "what" they feel.
i learned a lot of this from 12 step. it works about 75 percent of the time. then, there are those who just want to feel they are a "victim" or you are the "bad" person for knowing who you are and what you want and furthermore can "speak your truth". when i find myself being put down for this type of thing, i just back off, listen and ultimately have to decide whether we can go one like this. i also make sure that i have done my share of the 'listening" and haven't hogged the relationship. typically, it goes along until i have something really important to say and then i find myself "shushed".
sometimes not one person can meet all my communication needs. as you know, i have people in my life who are more gesture oriented and many who struggle. as long as we can peg the whole of what is going on, we then have decisions to make. but to someone to put his or herself down or have to not express him/herself, because the other can not listen or feels put down by your words--that is something that is unfair to you or me or anyone else in this situation. especially if it's a chronic situation.
somewhere there is a balance. i hope. i know we all need to improve ourselves, but the other half of this equation is that we need to relate to others who are committed to doing the same thing.
ps to inflict upon a new person "the sins of the father or more relevant here--the sins of the past lover(s)-- is totally unfair and that person who inflicts will continually attract the same as before.
psp jim and magic mary, don't beat yourselves up. we all learn from our mistakes. if you can, sometimes you can make ammends to the person in question. not to get the person back, but to put closure and be able to start afresh--having learned something. no relationship is one sided. by ammends i just mean telling him/her your observations about your role (only) and that you own it, and hope they are ok now. | |
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| How well do you LISTEN to your partner?
Posted: 7/10/2008 9:50:42 PM | Thanks Serenity,
It is a variation of something we all learn fast enough on PoF -- to be sure to say "I think..." and "I feel..." and not claim "this is how it is..." -- but I find that in real life such words are not enough to soften things. Text lacks tone and sometimes that makes things seem harsher or stronger but sometimes it also makes them seem softer. I will say "I think..." but when it's something I feel passionate about, the passion comes out in my tone and face. I am extremely expressive and my feelings are usually easy to read on my face -- and people seem to over-react to feelings that are actually quite small within me or not even anything to do with the situation. I much prefer writing than speaking; I feel misunderstood a lot of the time, but much less so in writing. People are always looking to read between the lines and it's so frustrating when you try your best to put everything as clearly and honestly as possible actually on the lines and nothing in between them.
Being "shushed" ohhhh I can't see myself tolerating that for long. The person who doesn't care to know my thoughts isn't going to be someone I am able to feel close to. I know that sometimes it's just a time and place thing; I know that sometimes they already know what you are going on about and you don't need to explain any more because they do understand even if they don't know what to do about it. However, if there isn't a time and a place and they are just shutting me out, I'd wonder how long it'd be before they noticed I wasn't there. | |
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