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Posted: 9/22/2008 3:47:23 AM | join the movement racerrrr.....there are many other single father's like yourself who **** about their hardships...BTW...how are your kids?...
Grow up..get a life...and stop blaming your finacial problems and living situation on the fact you have to pay child support.....If you honestly think that ANYBODY believes that your wage is garnished leaving you only 13% of your wages for you to live on....your a bigger victim in your own mind and a great poster child for a few of the "father movements"
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Posted: 9/22/2008 8:00:26 AM | Not all parents WANT visitation or custody. There are some parents who wouldnt be trusted with a child in their care for 5 minutes.
That may work for some individual co-parenting situations, but definately not all.
Child support is for the contribution to your childs needs being met. its not about YOU, its not about your EX, its for the CHILDREN. And i would have no issue with support usgae being accounted for, i recieve support for my kids in the form of social security survivors benefits, (husband passed away of diabetic complications), and i DO have to show annually that the funds were used to provide for my children. | |
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Posted: 9/22/2008 10:21:40 AM |
In my opinion, split custody is bullshit.
It seems to be getting common now, as a way of trying to cater to everybody.
But I think the children suffer.
I agree. I am highly educated, a good father and very involved. It was the ex-wife that decided to dissolve our marriage. I should get 100% custody. Can you call the California Family Courts? | |
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Posted: 9/22/2008 10:53:12 AM | Your scenario is not necessarily typical by any means. After twenty-five years my husband went through a mid-life crisis and decided to leave and didn't offer to take our son with him - which would have been over my dead body as the ex has no common sense and assumes everybody is greedy like his narcissistic self. I do not get anywhere near thirty percent of his salary as I refused to argue money over my child. I simply accepted what he offered (which was far less that the court system formula called for.)
I take primary care of my son and I thank God. It may make my life harder but I believe in putting the child first. My husband believes in putting himself first which often hurts our child and I am left to pick up the pieces.
Every situation is different so don't assume. | |
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Posted: 9/22/2008 4:41:54 PM |
After the child support comes out, I bring home 13% (thirteen percent) of my gross.
Where the hell do you live? Cause in PA (and in most states), the law prohibits child support from taking more then 50% of the gross.
The only cases where the 50% law might be changed is where the father has dozens of kids.
She sits at home with her husband(who also has 2 kids and doesn't work) and they do NOTHING! They bring home (without working) 2500+ per month, plus since it's not considered income, they are on welfare/food stamps/free insurance.
Another odd thing - in PA, child support IS considered income - matter of a fact, in PA, if you are on welfare, they TAKE your child support until you are off of welfare.
Don't know about other states - all I can vouch for is PA. Anyone else from other states? How is your laws regarding the above issues? | |
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Posted: 9/23/2008 2:58:39 AM | | Well, here in Indy, they can take 65% for child support, but if you owe even a little bit towards arrearages(sp), they can also take extra. As of Jan. 1st of this year, they also passed a law that the state will automatically increase your support if you are behind. I was behind from when this all started, and haven't caught up just yet, so yeah, I got hit, not to mention a bunch of other non-custodial parents. Supposedly once everything is caught up, they drop the mandatory increase, though it takes over a year of talking to everyone and seeing a judge for them to actually drop the increase. And LIZBETH, I'm not blaming the child support, I'm blaming the system. Re-read my post and you'll see that. The system is flawed in almost every way. Supposedly they base everything on the custodial/non-custodial income. My arrangement is 60%(custodial/40% me. OK, sounds fair since she made twice as much as I did. But how in Earth does it take $3000+ per month just for a kids' food, clothes, clothing, etc? Do the math....I gross 800 per check(bi-weekly), I bring home roughly 150 from that check, (bi-weekly) Now if I'm not mistaken, that's pretty close to 13%. So you tell me It's my fault all of this happened, it's my fault I created kids, blah blah blah.....I had a family going. Bought a house. Had everything going great, except for what she was doing. I'm not griping about having to pay child support, it's the amount of which the state thinks is needed. Up to 65%, come on. Used to be 25% until the child was 18 or out of school. Now, they can take 65% and you pay until the child 21 and out of school, and if you're behind, they can take more. So yeah, it's my ALL my fault, us deciding to have kids, her cheating, her being greedy as usual, the state's child support calculations.....Yup, I did it all on my own! As you probably think, I'm a guy and it's all my fault. I created the kid, I should be supporting you, and the kid 100% while you sit on your ass and gripe about not getting enough. Like I said before, I knew at least woman would gripe because I mentioned child support and the fact I have no money and would say something similar to you. I grew up in a single parent home, where my mom was collecting child support...it helped. Even talking to an attorney, I was told no one can financially survive on $75 a week. Can't get a place, except a homeless shelter, can't afford to do anything with the kids, can barely afford to buy food when I have the kids, can't afford to get reliable transportation(yes, Indiana can seize that too). The courts are very flawed and don't care about the non-custodial parents by any means. Oh, now you have a second job, well, now we can take 75% of that pay also. I mean come on...enough is enough...I understand helping to take care of your children, I understand having to pay child support...I have no problem with that. But when it comes to the amounts that Indiana can/will take, it's wrong. How would it make you feel if your kids lived their dad, being able to eat something besides hotdogs and ramen noodles, to coming to your house asking for pizza and not being able to get that? If it weren't for my mom helping me out, the kids would get nothing. No birthday presents/cake, no Christmas, nothing other than seeing you and wondering why you have no car, no place of your own, nothing other than some clothes on your back and a tv that was given to you. I can't afford anything. If you want to see my paycheck stub, and court papers, by all means come and see for yourself. But, I'll shut up now since I'm such a deadbeat dad because I gripe about paying so much in child support and the flaws of the system. I'm just not even worthy to talk or be spoken to, unless it's by you putting me in my place for wanting a change. You are a god.....you should get all my extra money, to pay for all deadbeat men/NCP that we are. Should I give you everything else too, become a slave for you, wash your ass for you, cook you dinner and feed you too? "Oh man, I just won 20 bucks off a scratch off that I found a buck and used to buy it, well, can't have that, so here you go." Look, a penny on the ground, I could save that.....oh wait, no I can't, I don't deserve that. You, Liz, are the one that needs to grow up and realize that not everyone is the same, not everyone is a deadbeat, not everyone deserves to have nothing just because they helped create a kid. | |
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Posted: 9/23/2008 6:24:42 AM | No child support would definitely make more women seriously consider who they decide to let procreate with them. Pick wrong they would have to deal with 100% of everything that goes along with being a single parent. Making people 100% accountable for their actions will open some eyes, and smarten some people up. I'd also take away any state assistance for people who have children, rather the adult can get it, but you don't get any extra for kids, so if they have them they've got to find a way to feed them. I am positive this would force people to make wiser decisions where having children are concerned.
I've personally been through the grinder and still am with the family law system, and depending on how hellish the ex (female) can be is how bad the experience is going to be. Over 1 year in this current custody case waiting on a house inspection, 10's of thousands spent on having to go to court for things that should automatically be given like kid being there for phone calls, another to be able to pick him up from school on my weekends instead of waiting for him to be driven to his mom's on the bus on Friday, I've proven she was $35K overpaid in child support but had to wait 5 years due to a child support technicality to dispute the issue. Over a decade of this with a couple K being spent every time I go to court and now it's close to my time of obtaining primary custody, and she knows it. You have to be a bad ass and a real man to hang in family court for any amount of time because you're a deadbeat who no doubt did something wrong for the saint of a woman to not want to be married to you. This is the view all guys are stuck with in family court because of all the real deadbeat scumbags women have chosen to lay with. Each new judge you have to re-prove you're the man you can show you are, and not the crap image the media has put on you as a father.
After the divorce I couldnt afford to live on my own and pay the ridiculous amount of child support I was ordered to pay, so I moved into gram's basement and paid the cs. That was when I decided that the world needs better lawyers and judges, and maybe not as many gynecologists so I changed my area of study to law (family law father's rights is where I'll do my damage:). I haven't had to live in a basement for a long time, but that is the reality of how the system screws the man. She got the house, investments, bank accounts and worst of all the kid (though I was the stay at home dad that went to night school and filled the primary caregiver position the first 3 years of my sons life). What she couldn't outright sell for cash she filed a bankruptcy on, which was done during our year of mandatory year seperation and means I was stuck with everything she was originally awarded, but couldn't outright sell and she hadn't made any payments on plus a bankruptcy on my record, and I got to see first hand how fast excellent credit becomes so bad that people look at your cash suspiciously. The trail has been long, filled with peril, sadness and hardship and I'd write a movie script about it all but there isn't a man channel (that exists at all) that would take it. I'm sure if I made the dad into a mom Lifetime would jump at the chance heh.
I have a real strong feeling that if the current custody policy meant no child support awarded at all, much of my past decade of court would have been avoided (and 85% of my court appearances had nothing to do with CS, but 100% of the motions were initially filed by me to be seen in court). She knows in her heart she can't show our son how to be a man, and that boys (especially intelligent strong willed ones) need a strong male presence and role model to show them the way, but she can't get away from the idea she might have to pay child support and that's what's making her dig her heels in to the inevitable. She fought tooth and nail against admitting she was getting more than she was awarded in cs, but is double determined not to have to "pay" me. I could care less about the $35k arrears or future child support, I don't need either to support the kid. There is a certain satisfaction many women get out of collecting child support, it's somewhat like a payment for the man not wanting to be with the woman, but it is cloaked in cries that the child needs it! I don't need child support nor do I care about it, I helped make the kid and I'm able to support him on my own with no problem, if a person can't, don't have kids.
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Posted: 9/23/2008 6:40:34 AM | | Tyger what you say does make a lot of sense. But at the end of the day it is still about the children. Why should a child go without because their parents made a bad choice in partners, is a lazy-butt, whatever the case may be, its not the KIDS fault. | |
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Posted: 9/23/2008 10:40:57 AM | | Sweetness, his point is both Man and Woman make a choice to have children. Both parents should be financially, emotionally and physically responsible since both decide to have children. The courts, especially in CA, are too one-sided on custody and financial responsibilities in cases where both parents want to raise their children. | |
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Posted: 9/23/2008 10:47:45 AM |
Woman are always crying about father needing to be more active or involved in their children lives.
Until you talk about removing or reducing cs....
UMMMM exscuse me???! I don't WANT child support but because my child is on medicaide THE STATE FORCES THE ISSUE! As i told the state i don't want anything from him. He is not active AT ALL in Xzavier's life. He even moved ACROSS the country affter geting the girl he cheated on me with pregnant. Leaving BOTH children fatherless. Not calling or anything. in the year he was still here he saw Xzavier MAYBEY 6 times. He had supervised visitation EVERYWEEK! he never showed. | |
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Posted: 9/23/2008 11:00:23 AM |
UMMMM exscuse me???! I don't WANT child support but because my child is on medicaide THE STATE FORCES THE ISSUE! As i told the state i don't want anything from him. He is not active AT ALL in Xzavier's life. He even moved ACROSS the country affter geting the girl he cheated on me with pregnant. Leaving BOTH children fatherless. Not calling or anything. in the year he was still here he saw Xzavier MAYBEY 6 times. He had supervised visitation EVERYWEEK! he never showed.
That's tough. I don't understand why people have children and are not involved. | |
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Posted: 9/23/2008 11:05:46 AM | Hi Sweet,
I come to my conclusions after years of being imbedded in the system. From what I've seen money issues aren't the problem with raising kids when the parents aren't together. CS appears to be a form of leverage the primary caregiver holds almost as a ransom for the non custodial parent to toe the line and pay or don't see the kids. Believe me, if a "right of parenting" is not specifically outlined in the custody paperwork, the custodial parent doesn't have to do it. They only have to give/do what's decreed.
So the father has to pay CS, but to get parenting rights decreed later on costs filing fees, a lawyer fee, time off from work...it's quite expensive everytime you go. So most guys just allow the bullying.
Then it's almost impossible to prove the custodial parent isn't spending the CS on the child. You pretty much have to have video tape showing the mom cashing the child support check and playing bingo or something. My cousins all have kids with women they never married and I've seen where the child support checks went, the bar tabs. I was paying enough CS for my son to wear the best clothes, go to a good private school (he has neither and the schools in his state are very low end education wise, and the clothes aren't important, I'm just pointing out he could have from the amount I paid), but my final straw was 2 years ago his mom said she didn't have much money for his BD present and then a week after she bought a sugar glider (its basically looks like a flying mouse) with accessories for $375...for herself because she thought it was cute. A pool, 3 vehicles, 3 ATVs...fine (she hasnt worked since her and I divorced) no BD present for my heir...that's it I filed and got the CS stopped.
I believe many times if the children do suffer due to custody situations, it's not because of money. It's the mindset of the custodial parent that feels they are owed payment, which is a form of "passing the buck" of responsibility. Eliminating CS would firmly put self responsibility back in the game by necessity. | |
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Posted: 9/23/2008 2:15:38 PM | | Very well said tyger. Finally a male spoke up about how the system is, besides myself. When you get your license, I'll be looking you up. lol Most attorneys around here just want the money, then leave you hanging to fend for yourself in court. Something has to be done so the system actually sees things as they are, not how they "think" they should be. It will never happen, but I sure wish it would. | |
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Posted: 9/23/2008 2:57:51 PM | I would love to have a 50/50 custody arrangement :) But....my ex moved himself to the states for work (Canadian company, he could work here if he wanted). Child support always has and always will (have to) be taken (not given) to me, when I find him.....hard to find where some people work!
So, since I've pretty much paid for everything my kids need, it would be a welcome change.....for me....a bit of freedom!
At this point, who cares about the money?
So, as you see, there IS need for the family court system! ....even though it fails most of us, most of the time!
You are looking at things as if this was a perfect world.....not even close :) | |
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Posted: 9/23/2008 3:09:16 PM | Then it's almost impossible to prove the custodial parent isn't spending the CS on the child.
This situation is easily solved. Think of a heath care spending account.
The non-custodial parent pays into a Federal system via automatic garnishment. This way parents and states can easily check what is paid.
The custodial parent receives a Visa check card to buy groceries, clothes, etc. The expenses are automatically checked against an approved list of expenses prior the item is purchased. Also trends can be checked to see if the custodial parent is abusing the system.
Expenses that cannot be purchased with the Visa check card are handled slightly differently. The custodial parent can purchase the item and submit receipts for reimbursement and it will follow the same checking/trending procedures.
An online system can show the expenses. Otherwise, submit a request to get a print out. This way, everyone involved will know how the money is spent.
It's the mindset of the custodial parent that feels they are owed payment, which is a form of "passing the buck" of responsibility. Eliminating CS would firmly put self responsibility back in the game by necessity.
In my case, I complain about the Ferrari payment I have to make while my ex-wife has two homes, a good career and her new husband's salary. Technically, my ex-wife doesn't need the money.
Eliminating CS after an established period of time (I suggest 5 years) would give the custodial parent the opportunity to establish a career. It will also make people think about their decisions to procreate and the quickie divorce.
In the runaway parents/abuse cases, etc. I doubt the custodial parent gets money for support anyway. This goes back to my first suggestion of my Child Support system so the automatic garnishments will make it to the children. | |
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Posted: 9/24/2008 9:28:04 AM | I'll agree with you, give the kids the house and parents move each week.
Seems a perfect idea. | |
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Posted: 9/24/2008 9:52:56 AM | SO I was reading ALL of the post replies to this and I just had to stop and figured I would just throw my two cents in.
What about when the father LEAVES? Just never comes home. No visits with the kids, no communication what so ever... then what? Do you consider that wrong that he should have to monetarily support him? Or should he just get to completely continue to ignore the fact that they exist and just be responsible for his "new" step children/children. Some day people will learn and acknowledge that child support is NOT for the custodial parent but for the CHILDREN. So THEY don't have to suffer damage from the poor decision of their no longer active parent.
Idealy it would be amazing if parents could share custody without fighting and bickering. More over it would be amazing if each parent could just SEE that a child needed something and bought it for them without waiting for the other parent to do so.
Not all men are schmucks, and not all women are money hungry.... every SINGLE situation is different and THAT is why this will never work. It is NOT the system necessarily that makes this situation horrible. It is human nature. Jealousy, greed, and anger. Children often become possessions and that is the worst of it. When a father or a mother could work together to fufill a child's needs then it may be that neither one would have to pay anything.... but because we're more concerned and focused on our own feelings, needs, and such than most people are with their children.... this will NEVER happen.... it is just a situational thing. | |
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Posted: 9/24/2008 9:58:55 AM | Ok... I'm attempting not to be heartless here..... REALLY I AM.... however my mother was a single parent of three and received NO child support and worked THREE jobs yes THREE. Two of which were full time and one part time for all of my YOUNG childhood....
I have three girls, I get child support sporatically.... sometimes I go a year or more without it. I have worked TWO FULLTIME jobs at once to support my children.... so if you're hurting I just have to say.... sounds like you need an extra job.
Single parents with full custody do this all the time. Why can't single parents with just visitation (not necessisarily just you racerrr) just do the same damn thing?? I mean HELLO they don't have to pay the child care! | |
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Posted: 9/24/2008 10:02:04 AM | | Missouri has a SecuriteCard that does this already... provided I was being PAID CS at this time my ex could go look and see exactly what I was spending the money on. | |
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Posted: 9/24/2008 10:32:36 AM | | me and my ex have spilt custody and i had to move to the same city as him to share custody. he does pay me child support only because he still lives with his mom and dad and doesnt have that rent/elec bill payment to make each week. and yes the child would benefit this from alot. | |
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Posted: 9/24/2008 12:18:19 PM | I think that there are two systems that are screwed up.
One is the institution of marraige in that too many of us are so bent on getting married and having kids without really thinking things through.
And this only makes the family law ans child support system that much more f#cked up.
We are becoming a nation who is starting to fully believe that a kid only needs one parent as long as the other pays financially. These days it is the men who mostly pay but things are slowly changing and when we start hearing of more women "actually being harrassed" by the collection agencies as bad as they treat men will it speed up the process.
Unlike most here I did not leave my wife or fool around on her or abuse her.
Sure I may smoke a little pot to relax but she knew this when she said I do.
To have an intelligent convo about cs and what is fair is difficult when there are ill feelings about the ex.
In my case I feel very jilted about how a woman can marry a man pop out a kid and be legally allowed to just up and divorce him without just cause and reduce him to a weekend babysitter and somehow have so many women just say that this is how it should be. Bullocks.
How that song would change if it was changed to the other foot but from I have read most cp fathers just do it and do not rely on or even expect anything from the moms who buggered off yet the cp moms just expect it and know that some gov. agency will hunt that man down no matter how he became single.
If they treated women with the same disdain as they do men it might actually seem fair but we know that is not the current status. | |
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Posted: 9/24/2008 12:21:56 PM |
What about when the father LEAVES? Just never comes home. No visits with the kids, no communication what so ever... then what?
Personally, I would be estatic if the ex-wife left me with my child full time. As a matter of fact, I'll offer her $$$ to give me full custody. To me, the time with my child is more important than money. | |
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Posted: 9/24/2008 2:20:41 PM | It is very hard to separate emotions from actions when it comes to our children. Some men and some women have been treated very harshly by their exs and all of us are just trying to do our best when it comes to our children. No one can predict the future (at least with any reliability) and relationships require the active participation of both parties.
Relationships are a lot like cars - some are built better than others but almost all will have a breakdown from time to time and some wear out sooner than others. Plus, you can't predict what random accident might come your way and total your car, even a well-made one.
If we have more stringent divorce laws, the only thing that will encourage is more cheating and/or baiting in order to obtain a divorce or a family with bitter unhappy parents... none of that seems very healthy. I'm not claiming to have the perfect solution but I know that feelings of bitterness will eat you up and waste away your life. It is better to accept things as they are and move on from that position than to remain frozen by your bitterness.
I have come to understand that my ex cannot financially contribute to raising our kid - so what is the point of involving CS and making his life that much more miserable? I found a weekend job that pays just about what I feel is a reasonable contribution from my ex (if he were employed) to contribute towards raising our kid and I just look at that money as my child support money - I don't care where it comes from, I just need it. LOL - I have three jobs and he has none - you have to look for the humor sometimes and laugh.... | |
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Posted: 9/24/2008 6:13:18 PM |
Tyger what you say does make a lot of sense. But at the end of the day it is still about the children. Why should a child go without because their parents made a bad choice in partners, is a lazy-butt, whatever the case may be, its not the KIDS fault. Because it shouldn't be up to a person who DIDNT WANT THE KID to pay for and raise the kid.
That's tough. I don't understand why people have children and are not involved. Because they aren't the one who chose to bring the kid into the world.
UMMMM exscuse me???! I don't WANT child support but because my child is on medicaide THE STATE FORCES THE ISSUE! As i told the state i don't want anything from him. He is not active AT ALL in Xzavier's life. Being on assistance takes from the taxpayers/government. The government would rather you take from someone else (the sperm donor) than themselves, even if it's not right or fair. If you supposedly don't want child support or anything from anyone then get a job with benefits or pay for your own insurance and get off medicare. | |
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Posted: 9/24/2008 6:38:52 PM |
Being on assistance takes from the taxpayers/government. The government would rather you take from someone else (the sperm donor) than themselves, even if it's not right or fair. If you supposedly don't want child support or anything from anyone then get a job with benefits or pay for your own insurance and get off medicare
Amen. You should not have a choice to either collect welfare from WORKING PARENTS instead of having the FATHER pay. I agree - you don't want child support? GET A JOB and stop thinking you are otherwise entitled to have everyone else pay for your child. It amazes me how many people on here believe their child is "going without" without having child support. Are you all that poor? All on welfare? Living in a shelter? Eating from garbage cans? Or is it you can't afford Sketchers runners or Ipods or Nintendo for them? If those extras are so important and constitute "going without" then I suggest do what people with values and work ethics do - get a second job, or get a job period. If you cannot afford basic needs for your child, perhaps until you can they should be somewhere else where they be fed and clothed and housed. THOSE are essentials. Makes me mad when parents won't do what they need to do for their family and do nothing but blame the absent parent for what they themselves are not prepared to do. | |
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