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| kiss of death = ugliness
Posted: 7/7/2008 7:20:39 PM | Every interaction with every individual will have a different pace.
It's not so much as finding the right one it'll be different with the next.
What is important that both communicate and find the pace/speed that is comfortable for both of you. | |
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| Being a gentleman, going slow. Is it the kiss of death?
Posted: 7/7/2008 7:23:33 PM | but at least show some interest. If things are going well and there is chemistry, I don't see any problem with getting into a good "make out session" on the second or third date. It does not mean that the two of you have to have sex!
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But if she insists..... | |
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| being a gentleman should not be kiss of death
Posted: 7/7/2008 7:29:25 PM | OP, in my limited experience I have not observed the behaviors you are talking about. I have only gone out with three women beyond a first date since my separation in 2006. With the first of these, I pressed for sex right away, and never got anything. Then I changed my approach and with the other two women I have gone out with I just focused on enjoying their company but never pushed for sex. Eventually sex happened but it was at their prompting. So not being aggressive did not put me in a "friend" category. I think if we click at some level and are having a good time when we are together then all should be good.
I most definitely do not follow this piece of advice:
Max your chase to 3 dates ... if she does not put out ... drop her
I will drop her only if I am not having a good time in her company (and she should drop me for the same reason if she is not having fun). But presence or absence of sex has nothing to do with whether I drop her. | |
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| kiss of death = ugliness
Posted: 7/7/2008 7:40:55 PM | This is a hot topic it seems lol. I can only speak for myself. No, I don't want to be "pounced on" in the first couple of dates HOWEVER I need to see/know that you are physically attracted to me. What's wrong with a passionate kiss that hints at your sexual attraction? If I go on say 3 dates with a man and he doesn't at least kiss me, I will assume he's not attracted to me/only sees me as a friend.
It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other. The reality is that most women are concerned that if they sleep with a man too soon he will have sex and disappear (a lot of women have been through this), but on the flip side, if you don't show any affection or physical attraction then it will be assumed you're not interested. I will show that I'm interested and open to you making a move, say for a kiss etc, I don't expect a man to read my mind, and I understand it must be hard to men to make the first move if the woman hasn't given any indication whether she would be open to it and is attracted to him.
I think at the end of the day, everyone wants to feel desired and there are ways to do this without literally jumping someone's bones  | |
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| Being a gentleman, going slow. Is it the kiss of death?
Posted: 7/7/2008 7:47:41 PM | Maybe I'm missing something here, but it sounds like you're implementing one extreme or the other. Sorry if I've misunderstood, but that's my take on your issue. There is middle ground between those two extremes. There are ways to let your intentions be known.
My favorite position on this issue is clear and simple communication. Hard to misunderstand if you accurately communicate your intentions. What's wrong with just saying, "I really like you and want to take the time to know you better." It works for me.
Good luck.... | |
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| Being a gentleman, going slow. Is it the kiss of death?
Posted: 7/7/2008 7:50:57 PM | | Dear trukinbiker ........okay I guess coffee and playing dixie in the spokes is not happening for me with you, too bad cause I made us a big old jar of hillbilly royal jelly ... hah ............... oh well, NEXT. Thanks for your deconstructive and way off base critique of fact, which proves completely by your interpretation and demeaning and subversive comments exactly what I was saying .......... understanding is the key........... How dare you tell anyone how to write, what words that they should chose and that they are "allowed" .. last time I looked your forefathers and the endoctrinated rights by men who hammered out the declaration of independence and a life role as a marine in a country that hails freedom of speech you sound like the energy of a very dominating man who needs to examine why you give off this energy .......... maybe you need some serious retrospection of what you believe a woman should be and how they should behave............ and as for your "esp" on who I am ........... I judge people by what they do,.......... not what they talk about and who I am if you dared to shake off your very prejudicial statements is a doer not a do-eee.... Your problem regarding your inability to go deep with a woman is deeper than getting ah................ lucky. | |
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| Being a gentleman, going slow. Is it the kiss of death?
Posted: 7/7/2008 7:59:03 PM | | Yes, women do need this type of sexual intensity...at least the intense, exciting, hot blooded ones, do! You just don't need to go all the way...get her worked up...lots of foreplay during the time You spend with her, then tell her no....because You want to make this intensity last as long as YOU want it to. Personally, i love to beg for it....but he's gotta have some arrogance about it, or it makes it look like You have to wait for the Viagra to kick in! | |
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I purr
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Joined: 6/18/2008
Msg: 59 | |
| Being a gentleman, going slow. Is it the kiss of death?
Posted: 7/7/2008 8:00:35 PM | Move to slow, some move to fast... and they each crater. I am not sure what goes on with any of us. We get cold feet, we think there might be something better around the corner. After all, if I find this and it is this good, there could be a little better just around the corner. Or, I just cannot do this. This is just not an easy process. Both parties have to open up and take a chance and somethings right time right place is just a difficult thing to have. You, take a chance and dive into it and you are lose. You, wait and you are a prude. He wants slower, you want faster or visa-versa.
Most of the time I have high hopes and then I second guess myself and I am a confidient person. We can only control ourself and no one else.
It would be nice if we could have a date with a clean slate free from past hurts and scared feelings. Those of us on here for a purpose should be able to be open and talk and then just go for it. Hard to do. | |
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I purr
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Joined: 6/18/2008
Msg: 60 | |
| Being a gentleman, going slow. Is it the kiss of death?
Posted: 7/7/2008 8:08:42 PM | You know I really want a long term relationship and I make that clear on my profile. Yet, I do have one guy from here that has just dove in head first and is so demanding that one date is the rest of our life and is just so pushy and agressive that I find myself doubting....myself. He is yelling at me as if I was the last woman that scorned him. I just recoil and it is a shame becuase if he would just chill out and relax and give me an inch of space it could happen. Open up but don't assume and guys, be kind and let it happen. Read the laws of attraction. I am sure there is someone out there for me and he is not the only one where initial chemisty is visible or backgrounds are similiar as well as future goals.
Being a gentleman, going slow is not the kiss of death. Girls and Guys pay attention, read body language and listen to each other. Find out what the other really wants. Ask! I say slow down just a little and he just keeps saying......no tonight is it....
I ended it now. Can/t be foreced, intidimated or pushed. I can be courted and seduced. Guys, and I am sure Gals.... Listen to each other. | |
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| Being a gentleman, going slow. Is it the kiss of death?
Posted: 7/7/2008 8:19:19 PM |
Is being passive regarding sexual intentions a sure fire way to turn a woman off?
It's a surefire way to turn THIS woman off. Can't speak for other women, but I find passivity not too attractive in either gender. As several posters have suggested, there is a middle ground between holding-back gentleman and aggressive go-for-it guy. If you are TOO gentlemanly, then you are probably confusing the woman about what you want from her, which may be why you end up in that friend zone. And if you "go for it right off the bat"--well, it sounds like that often enough gets you sex, but since you aren't announcing happily that it also got you where you were aiming to go with your honorable, gentlemanly behavior, that too seems to be a mistake for you and/or the women involved.
I know most women say they want a man who is not after just sex, but I have found that the man had better let her know early that while sex may not be the only thing you are looking for, it IS one of the things you are looking for.
You present this as if it were a contradiction, but it seems not at all contrary to me, since many if not most women are also looking for sex, among other aspects of being with a man. We will, however, vary in how we'd like to be told, how soon we want to hear it, how soon we want you to act on it...
Ain't no exact formula, OP. Adjust to the situation and the company you're currently keeping.
--Ms. Flis | |
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| Being a gentleman, going slow. Is it the kiss of death?
Posted: 7/7/2008 8:41:27 PM | I usually DON'T kiss on a first date because it's like saying you're too easy and I like taking my time with women and appreciating them more the more we spend time together. It creates more of a emotional bond, she's trusts you more and you build rapport, if we have that  she's soon going to get me in  with her.  | |
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| Being a gentleman, going slow. Is it the kiss of death?
Posted: 7/7/2008 10:17:04 PM | | More good responses. I am quite pleased at the level of interest this topic has drawn! Some of the comments prompt me to expand further on my experiences. Several of the posters have latched onto the word "lucky" and tend to skip past everything else. These people are missing the larger issue. Perhaps the fault is mine because the word "lucky" sounds crass and I understand that. Maybe if I had phrased it as, " I have found myself to have had better luck in moving to a physical relationship when I am assertive earlier.", would explain my intent better. Just for the record, in my last real developed relationship, I met a lady online. We talked quite a bit through the net and decided to meet. I got to her place and sparks just flew! Within an hour of my arrival, after having just met, we were into it hot and heavy.! Full scale, hard core animal sex! It was amazing! To make a long story short, we clicked perfectly on every level. I fell in love with her, she with me and we moved in together. I planned on marrying her and adopting her 4 year old daughter. I bought the ring and proposed and she accepted. I even bought her daughter a small gold ring with a tiny heart on it, so she would know I was in love with both of them. We were together for a year and a half. Why am I not with her now? The first few months were as perfect as I could ever hope for. However it turns out she had a serious prescription pill problem which did not show up until my income allowed her to spend her money on the pills. She was crushing and snorting them, and swapping pills with her best friend. These pills changed her personality completely from the person I first met and destroyed her sex drive. I did stay for quite a while after the problem arose, doing everything I could to get her off them, but it eventually became apparent that she could not or would not get off them. I tried. I tried hard. I loved the woman I met, but could no longer be with the person she became. So I ended up back in the dating arena. So, for all you people that assume that having sex early is always a bad thing, I have to tell you that you are very wrong. This woman's initial passion enthralled me along with the other aspects of her personality. I just wish she had stayed away from the drugs, because if she had remained the person I first met, I would still be there happy as a man could possibly be. Sadly that was obviously not meant to be. So here I am now, on this site making the effort to find that kind of relationship again. I still have faith, but sometimes do question what it takes to get there, hence, this thread. | |
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| Being a gentleman, going slow. Is it the kiss of death?
Posted: 7/7/2008 11:03:32 PM | | Dear Truckinbiker Good luck with finding yourself another self centered irresponsible pill popping mother who needed psychiatric help and a guy with the back bone to report her so that her child could live in a much more stable environment while she got her act together. I have zero problem with anyone adult that decides to take their life down death alley but they have no rights to take their offspring with them, that is completely self centered and very likely to reperpetuate the same behaviour. As for you not knowing that she was a pill popper .. yah right..... you are an ex marine and you can't see the signs of a drug addict in her eyes and incoherence in her communication ............come on oh yah ... we aren't pals anymore ... and PS just a tid bit of advice from someone chronologically and psychologically seasoned in personal solidity the only behaviour you own is your own and a drug addict cannot form a bond with you because they do not have a bond with themselves so your great sex was one way because a drug addict is not present and engaged in their own life let alone being grounded enough to engage in NOW with you so the sex could never be great with an addict. I have lived with an addict of alcohol and there is no way you can make a connection of any value when their brains are always in dire need of the next fix .... they are not wired to engage their brains in the moment . Addicts already have their drug of choice and it ain't you, their significant other is their fix. | |
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| Being a gentleman, going slow. Is it the kiss of death?
Posted: 7/7/2008 11:14:54 PM | The last thing most dudes desire is to be relegated to the friend,nice,gay,guy zone.
Make the first move SOON or at least start dropping some very sexually suggestive hints.
caveat: just not to co-workers k? | |
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| Being a gentleman, going slow. Is it the kiss of death?
Posted: 7/8/2008 12:42:44 AM | Women of POF, look at the prize you have with Truckinbiker. This guy is obviously smarter than the average bear, more than enough sensitive, and has the Bad Boy image in spades, so your inner cave woman can just go nuts. He's willing to wait for you to prove he's not a cave man himself, and you penalize him for it. For shame! Would some deserving women hit this guy up for non-stop dates already? If not, may all your dates be with guys that bully their way into your pants, or are just not interested in you physically, due to their relentless philandering.
OP, I think that two things will always work against quality men like you: women are attracted to types, and women are by and large insecure, yet desirous of being in control. If you look like the big, bad biker, they'll be disappointed in discovering a guy that brings them flowers and stuffed animals on a first date. If you haven't yet made a move, their knee jerk insecurity signals (erroneously) that you aren't interested in them, so they'll pull the friend card before being dumped by you. Most women don't handle rejection well at all, even if they don't find you all that interesting. It ain't logical, and that's part of the reason we will never understand them fully.
I wish you luck. | |
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| Being a gentleman, going slow. Is it the kiss of death?
Posted: 7/8/2008 3:07:01 AM | 'Tis a fine line between being a gentleman and being a wuss. And each person is going to have a different definition of where that line exists. The best advice to follow is your own heart. Pace yourself with what feels comfortable to YOU. Dont worry about the other person, because if there's a connection there then she'll be right there on the same page with you.
Just my 2 cents. | |
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| Being a gentleman, going slow. Is it the kiss of death?
Posted: 7/8/2008 3:20:42 AM | | not really the kiss of death, , close though, i have been in the friend zone long enough to have my own street signs, being a gentleman is learned over time, it all depends on the kind and quality of relationship you seek, never give up your morals and better judgement, i personally will lose interest in a female if she wants to hop into bed in the first two dates, i want to get to know someone first. | |
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| Being a gentleman, going slow. Is it the kiss of death?
Posted: 7/8/2008 3:28:12 AM | ehhh,.. be a gentleman,.. but move as quick as possible,.. you don't want them to think it over too much! You may get "I've been thinkng".. or worse.. you may get "friended!" If she likes you after that,.. you're good if not,.. look at it this way,.. you've saved a small fortune on gas, empty dinners, drinks, movies, etc. It's all good economics AND.. if it goes bad, you actually got something out of it!    | |
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| Being a gentleman, going slow. Is it the kiss of death?
Posted: 7/8/2008 3:31:37 AM |
More good responses. I am quite pleased at the level of interest this topic has drawn
Also OP, check out a related thread
Do women resent having to send "signals"?
sorry I don't know how to post links but do a search and you'll find it. | |
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oshan
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Joined: 5/11/2008
Msg: 71 | |
| kiss of death = ugliness
Posted: 7/8/2008 1:41:56 PM | isou write: "Max your chase to 3 dates ... if she does not put out ... drop her and waste your time, money and energy on another prospect."
So tell me, just out of curiosity...'How's that been workin for ya?" LMAO
....spell...N E A N D E R...THAL | |
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