| TV One: Celebrating black candidate or backing black dependency?
Posted: 7/13/2008 12:58:10 AM | | It seems to me the message I hear from democrats is how much certain people in the U.S. just can't survive without handouts. Republicans believe everyone who works hard can achieve whatever they want based on their merit. So, why would people who have a history of being oppressed by democrats continue to vote for democrats who continue to believe they are inferior? The inferiority complex-beggar mentality? How a beggar praises you when you hand out a few bucks to a nickel. Panhandlers demand money and don't tip. Ask any waitress and bartender. | |
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| TV One: Celebrating black candidate or backing black dependency?
Posted: 7/13/2008 8:14:34 AM |
Independents are not conservatives, they are liberals.
No offence. But do you even know what your talking about by saying that?
Most conservative independants don't want to be associated with neo-cons.
Bush and company are not conservatives. There as liberal as the last bunch.
MLK was not a liberal
I believe liberals were very right on him. He pushed for entitilments, redistribution of wealth, and reperations.
You can go read about that. All of the stuff they said he was about has been true. | |
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| TV One: Celebrating black candidate or backing black dependency?
Posted: 7/13/2008 8:31:14 AM | the OP would be more impressive if all but one of its points wasn't referring to things that happened between 75 to 150 years ago.
the sole item that isn't an artifact of antiquity (and its rapidly getting there) is the Civil Rights Act of 1964, leaves out several pertinent facts. one, the bill would never have reached Congress if not for a JFK. (and never would have passed had it not been for LBJ)
it also ignores the fact that there were virtually NO Republican senators or representatives from the South in 65, not to mention that the portion of the Democratic party that did vote against the act was largely southern and vehemently racist. interestingly enough, the bill itself led to the wholesale defection to the Republican part y by most of the South. it also led to a voting bloc of democrats who voted consistently with the Republicans on further bills promoting equality.
and anybody who thinks that Nixon, Reagan, or either Bush had the slightest interest in promoting racial equality or that Lincoln would have had any sympathy for the current Republican party is kidding themselves. | |
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| TV One: Celebrating black candidate or backing black dependency?
Posted: 7/13/2008 8:47:41 AM | and anybody who thinks that Nixon, Reagan, or either Bush had the slightest interest in promoting racial equality or that Lincoln would have had any sympathy for the current Republican party is kidding themselves.
And the democrates have actually promoted it? Please..!
LBJ...When referrering to the act and its effect on black voting for the party, he said, "We own those Ni!@ers".
Yea he loved blacks.
And of course he wasn't doing it for power. No..........never.
O, and Lincoln wanted them to go back to Africa. | |
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| TV One: Celebrating black candidate or backing black dependency?
Posted: 7/13/2008 8:59:45 AM | you really think that nixon or reagan would have passed the civil rights act?
I would strongly disagree (and so would most reputable history) that Johnson was not sympathetic to the plight of blacks in the US. its certainly not what his three most highly thought of biographies say about him. | |
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| TV One: Celebrating black candidate or backing black dependency?
Posted: 7/13/2008 9:16:04 AM |
you really think that nixon or reagan would have passed the civil rights act?
I have no idea.
I would strongly disagree (and so would most reputable history) that Johnson was not sympathetic to the plight of blacks in the US. its certainly not what his three most highly thought of biographies say about him
He was not sympathetic. He just happened to be at the right place at the right time.
The guy was very evil.
What I said about him calling blacks that is real. His own library has the audio.
He was not a good guy. | |
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| TV One: Celebrating black candidate or backing black dependency?
Posted: 7/13/2008 9:37:41 AM | ahh so you have no insight into your peoples motives but are firm on Johnsons. odd.
being in the right place at the right time is called history.
and I don't doubt that is what he said about blacks. in those tapes he also called his own southern dirt farmer stock rednecks, shitkickers, crackers etc. does that mean he also disliked whites? he himself was a southern dirt farmer and as such was a plain spoken and often impolitic man.
but he was every bit of a political realist and realized what his political moves would do to energize his base.
the Civil Rights Act was hardly the only example of his work in this arena.
his strong arming of George Wallace into opening the schools to desegregation thereby preventing a violent confrontation alone would have been a tremendous civil rights achievement.
that JFK was instrumental in crafting the Civil Rights Act is hardly surprising given his liberal northern education. the measure of Johnson is his stance on the subject given his deep rural southern roots. | |
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| TV One: Celebrating black candidate or backing black dependency?
Posted: 7/13/2008 10:15:18 AM |
that JFK was instrumental in crafting the Civil Rights Act is hardly surprising given his liberal northern education. the measure of Johnson is his stance on the subject given his deep rural southern roots.
Him being a liberal has nothing to do with it in my eyes.
If I am not wrong, JFK didn't vote for the 57 civil rights act. Wrong? | |
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| TV One: Celebrating black candidate or backing black dependency?
Posted: 7/13/2008 10:30:36 AM | well most eyes see it considerably differently. particularly historians eyes.
and he did not vote for the 1957 Civil Rights Act. should he have he would most certainly have lost to Nixon in his run for the presidency as it would have completely alienated all of the Southern Democrats.
politics is the art of the possible. | |
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| TV One: Celebrating black candidate or backing black dependency?
Posted: 7/13/2008 10:40:17 AM |
and he did not vote for the 1957 Civil Rights Act. should he have he would most certainly have lost to Nixon in his run for the presidency as it would have completely alienated all of the Southern Democrats.
Which is funny, considering someone like Barry Goldwater did vote for it.
But then again, Goldwater didn't vote for it to be politically expediant. | |
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| TV One: Celebrating black candidate or backing black dependency?
Posted: 7/13/2008 11:01:03 AM | Perhaps not, but then, as a republican, Goldwater didn't have to worry about finding a way to get the support of southern dixiecrats for a presidential run. On the other hand, he won a number of them over by opposing the 1964 Civil Rights Act.
But either way, whatever his various paranoias about communism, etc., I think Goldwater pretty consistently supported voting rights and policies of desegregation. He's another of those interesting transitional figures in some ways--much like Johnson in the history of the democratic party.
In either case, the lesson is that you can't make sweeping statements about the modern republican and democratic parties through reference to the past. "Old south" white segregationists were democrats before the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s--they (or their modern equivalents) aren't any more, and there's a reason for that. | |
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| TV One: Celebrating black candidate or backing black dependency?
Posted: 7/13/2008 11:16:40 AM |
Perhaps not, but then, as a republican, Goldwater didn't have to worry about finding a way to get the support of southern dixiecrats for a presidential run. On the other hand, he won a number of them over by opposing the 1964 Civil Rights Act.
But he didn't oppose the 64 act because if was politically expediant to do so. If I remember correctly he said that he believed that it violated title 2.
He without a doubt didn't oppose it because of hate for blacks. Not that you said anything of the sort.
aren't any more, and there's a reason for that.
Please explain Robert Byrd. | |
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| TV One: Celebrating black candidate or backing black dependency?
Posted: 7/13/2008 12:27:43 PM | Because conservatism is a daily applied intellectual achievement or activity. Liberalism is not. Liberalism is so damned easy it's embarrassing. Conservatism takes some application.
Conservatism, at its core, is simply resistance to change....hardly a "daily applied intellectual achievement or activity." | |
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| TV One: Celebrating black candidate or backing black dependency?
Posted: 7/13/2008 12:51:53 PM |
Republicans believe everyone who works hard can achieve whatever they want based on their merit
So do Democrats, and what a shining example of that and proof that it is possible we have in Barack Obama. Born of an African immigrant and an American, abandoned by his father and raised by a single mother and her parents. His story could have ended up like so many other young men with similar background.
He did not marry into wealth like the Republican candidate did.
The fact is that some people vote along party lines, some on the issues and others along racial lines.
The OP has not mentioned any of the issues facing us as Americans, instead he has chosen to 'play the race card' to convince black people to vote for the Republicans.
In my opinion, sad, sad, sad.....coming from a black man, no less.
Obama 2008!! | |
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| TV One: Celebrating black candidate or backing black dependency?
Posted: 7/13/2008 1:12:46 PM |
Liberalism, at its core, is simply resistance to change....hardly a "daily applied intellectual achievement or activity."
Well that's a cute response, gardenpeanut. Problem is, since it takes into account the meanings of neither liberalism nor conservatism, it doesn't make any sense.
brandie:
So do Democrats, and what a shining example of that and proof that it is possible we have in Barack Obama. Born of an African immigrant and an American, abandoned by his father and raised by a single mother and her parents. His story could have ended up like so many other young men with similar background.
He did not marry into wealth like the Republican candidate did.
The fact is that some people vote along party lines, some on the issues and others along racial lines.
The OP has not mentioned any of the issues facing us as Americans, instead he has chosen to 'play the race card' to convince black people to vote for the Republicans.
Well put... | |
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| TV One: Celebrating black candidate or backing black dependency?
Posted: 7/13/2008 4:46:56 PM | His mom is ph.d and his grandparents were involved in banking. He's hardly representative of the impoverished class you seem to be alluding to. I don't know many inner city children raised by single mothers that can afford to attend the state's most elite private school for 7 years. Not to mention his parents met in college, which already puts him in the blatantly non-blue collar status of having parents who attended college.
<div class='quote'> He did not marry into wealth like the Republican candidate did.
No he took the more traditional route of being born into it. Not to say he was 'wealthy', like McCain or Bush, but rather his background is solidly middle to upper-middle class and hardly the "from the streets" story every seems to peddle.
This is exactly why I consider the man a raging fraud. But you know, eat it up people.
And what I've said time and again is that this isn't even a fault of Obama. Its a fault of greater political system that favors the candidates who paint the brightest picture with the smallest amount of truth. Every president now, as a requirement, must foster a strong cult of personality. Obama is just exceptional at it. | |
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| TV One: Celebrating black candidate or backing black dependency?
Posted: 7/13/2008 4:55:55 PM |
*- Is your post addressing the topic, or the poster? Use quotes to identity what post you're referring to like this [.quote] material to be quoted [/quote.] without the periods. You would get this:
material to be quoted
Knock off the partisan generalizations - it's flamebaiting and it's not welcome. Want to show something about a political movement/party? Show it with evidence.
-TheMadFiddler-* | |
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| TV One: Celebrating black candidate or backing black dependency?
Posted: 7/13/2008 8:06:26 PM | I'm not sure what "from the streets" you're referring to, but I've been following Obama's career for sometime and all I've ever heard him say is that he is the child of a single mother.
and thats a lot of crap about the his family being wealthy.
his mom's family were US army.
quick bio of them... (well his mom did end up becoming the first woman vice president of the Bank of Hawaii, but it was obviously not from connections, she just did a good job)
Fort Leavenworth, Kansas (some say Wichita, Kansas), while her father was in the military. She was named after her father, who reportedly gave his daughter and only child his name because he had wanted a boy; however, she was referred to as "Ann".
Her parents, Stanley Armour Dunham (born on March 23, 1918, raised in El Dorado, Kansas died February 8, 1992—buried in the Punchbowl National Cemetery) and Madelyn Dunham (née Madelyn Lee Payne) (who was born in 1922 and raised in Augusta, Kansas and is still living in Honolulu, Hawaii), met in Wichita, Kansas and married on May 5, 1940.
After the Pearl Harbor attack her father joined the Army and her mother worked at a Boeing plant in Wichita. At the end of World War II she moved with her parents to California, Texas, and Seattle, Washington, where her father was a furniture salesman.
and then there is his father side.
Barack Hussein Obama, Sr., was born in 1936 on the shores of Lake Victoria in Nyangoma-Kogelo, Siaya District, Kenya. His father, Hussein Onyango Obama (c. 1895-1979, buried at Alego), belonged to the Luo tribe and was born Onyango, son of Obama (buried at Kendu Bay, Kenya) and wife Nyaoke, in one of their villages. Before working as a cook for missionaries in Nairobi, Onyango had travelled widely, enlisting with the name Onyango Obama in the British colonial forces during World War I and visiting Europe, India, and Zanzibar, where he converted from Christianity to Islam and added Hussein to his name. Onyango had at least three wives; Barack Obama Sr. was the son of Habiba Akumu, the second wife. However, he was raised by Onyango's third wife, Sarah, after Akuma/Akumu left her family and separated from her husband in 1945.
Obama Sr. grew up in Nyangoma-Kogelo. At 18, he married a young woman named Kezia in a tribal ceremony. They had four children, two of them after he returned to Kenya from the United States. He never divorced Kezia, who now lives in Bracknell, England.[9]
American education and marriages
Due to a program offering Western educational opportunities to outstanding Kenyan students that was organized by nationalist leader Tom Mboya, Obama Sr. was awarded a scholarship in economics, and at the age of 23 he enrolled at the University of Hawaii.
before you bad rap the guys family at least have the decency to read about them. | |
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| TV One: Celebrating black candidate or backing black dependency?
Posted: 7/13/2008 9:40:46 PM | While I appreciate the great lengths you took in copying and pasting all that from Ann Dunham's wikipedia page, I already read all about them. I'm not even talking specifically about what he's said, but rather the image concocted around him. One that he embraces. In fact, I've him introduced prior to his speeches as something like, 'after overcoming the mean streets in a single parent household...' He was attendance, he couldn't have been like, 'hey tone that down a little?' That doesn't strike you as a little duplicitous?
I don't discount that his grandmother worked hard become a bank vice-president, but thats the reality. His was the grandson of a banking exec. I'm sure George H.W. Bush worked really hard as well, but that doesn't stop anyone from saying George W. is a privileged son. Just as the fact that I'm the son of blue collar workers won't stop anyone from saying any children I have are privileged children of a lawyer. | |
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| TV One: Celebrating black candidate or backing black dependency?
Posted: 7/13/2008 9:44:33 PM | does it bother any of you that Obama and Mccain both voted for the Fisa aggreement last week that allows illegal wiretapping ? How canyou possibly stand behind anyone who would trash the fourth amendment ?
It doesn't matter what color he is does it anyway ? He just allowed every american to become a slave. | |
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| TV One: Celebrating black candidate or backing black dependency?
Posted: 7/13/2008 9:54:41 PM | Exactly right STOP, McCain and Obama are one in the same anyway. Thats my point, Obama isn't the exception, he's the personification.
One correction though: McCain didn't vote for the FISA bill though... he didn't even bother to vote at all.
Where are you, Ron Paul? This goes back to the OP's original point, we're all becoming inextricably bound and dependent on the government. I'd rather they just leave me alone, I'd rather take the risk of utter failure than have little say in my own life. | |
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| TV One: Celebrating black candidate or backing black dependency?
Posted: 7/13/2008 10:21:31 PM |
Where are you, Ron Paul?
Yes In my opinion this country has only one chance to stop the madness andthat is through DR Paul but knowing who controls this country the people don't have a say in who gets elected anyway. The movement is huge and I know many Ron Paul supporters yest it's odd that I do know a few Obama supporters but have never met a mccain supporter in person ? with such a high approval rating why would that be ? i actually think diebold switch the numbers or something during the caucuses and primary's. I was watch the straw pols back in the december and the strangest thing happened . for a solid week I watched as basically every state was becoming a Ron Paul state and then whamm in minutes every Ron Paul state became a Mccain state. Right then I knew it was all rigged. | |
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| TV One: Celebrating black candidate or backing black dependency?
Posted: 7/13/2008 11:48:22 PM | HR has made good points and I think a much needed new thread can be appreciated by some on this forum.
The OP has not mentioned any of the issues facing us as Americans, instead he has chosen to 'play the race card' to convince black people to vote for the Republicans.
Not well said!
Well said statement came from Intricate Gina. In a nutshell she answered your remark of issues, as I have in the original post and further down. There is no "race card." Only the ones that Democrats have a habit of bringing up. And once again, a Democrat brought it up and shamefully accusing me of such nonsense. I know it pains some of the facts posted but all I have done is share truths hidden by Democrat black leaders and the Media. Black studios also as TV One, have kept many blinded. Too many Americans are either unwilling or unable to think, and that is going to be a significant factor in taking this country down.
Here are some other issues concerning this election year stated by former President Bill Clinton. He is actually saying that Obama is polarizing despite his game of being a different kind of politician.
Bill Clinton warned Saturday that the country is becoming increasingly polarized despite the historic nature of the Democratic primary.
Clinton noted that on the one hand, following the early stages of the Democratic primary, "the surviving candidates were an African-American man and a woman."
But this achievement was overshadowed by a growing distance between Americans, said Clinton.
"Underneath this apparent accommodation to our diversity, we are in fact hunkering down in communities of like-mindedness, and it affects our ability to manage difference," Clinton said.
He cited statistics compiled by Bishop that found that in the 1976 presidential election, only 20 percent of the nation's counties voted for Jimmy Carter or President Ford by more than a 20 percent margin.
By contrast, 48 percent of the nation's counties in 2004 voted for John Kerry or President Bush by more than 20 points, Clinton said.
"We were sorting ourselves out by choosing to live with people that we agree with," Clinton said.
A final note is that everywhere he goes, Obama is greeted by supporters hoisting placards and gymnasiums and podiums festooned with HIS central theme: "Change We Can Believe In."
After hearing Wright define exactly what he means and what he thinks, it is now impossible for the candidate to continue to dodge telling us exactly what HE means and what HE thinks. Wright's speeches are a call for specificity from Barack Obama. The days of allowing Obama to leave himself as an undefined, vague, "Hope, Unity, and Change Guy" must end.
It is now incumbent on Obama to tell us what HE means by "change."
Senator: you sat at Wright’s feet, absorbing his teachings like a sponge for 20 years. Is your interpretation of "change" the same as Wright's? How does Wright's version of "change" agree with yours? Or differ from yours?
By the way, Senator, what IS your version of "change?"
Unless you tell us, Senator, specifically and with great detail, what YOU mean by your call to “change,” we can only assume that your agenda looks like Wright’s agenda. After all, you said you could “no more disown him than” you could “disown the black community.” You also said that Wright is “a part of you.” OK: which part?
How can we vote for "Change We Can Believe In" when you won't even tell us what, exactly, we are "believing in?"
Which Obama do we believe, the LEFT OBAMA or the CENTRAL/RIGHT OBAMA or the WHO REALLY KNOWS WHAT HE WILL DO OBAMA. I know what McCain will do, unfortunately. | |
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| TV One: Celebrating black candidate or backing black dependency?
Posted: 7/14/2008 9:23:57 AM | We are worried about TVOne which I doubt very few people on this forum watch covering a story on Obama. When this is going to be the cover of a prominent magazine that will be on the shelves all over the country and parts of the world.
This headline is outrageous. This reminds me of the propoganda during WWII towards the Jewish people.
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Today on the presidential campaign trail
This illustration provided by The New Yorker magazine, the cover of the July 21, 2008 issue by artist Barry Blitt, shows Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama dressed as a Muslim and his wife as a terrorist.
By The Associated Press
From Associated Press
July 14, 2008 9:50 AM EDT
IN THE HEADLINES
Controversial New Yorker cover depicts Obama as Muslim, wife as armed terrorist ... Palestinian official: Obama to visit West Bank during Middle East trip ...
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Please view cover.
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http://enews.earthlink.net/article/gen?guid=20080714/487acf40_3ca6_1552620080714-597074681
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This is an outrage. | |
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| TV One: Celebrating black candidate or backing black dependency?
Posted: 7/14/2008 9:38:22 AM | | faith, maybe it is an outrage, but one should also bear the source in mind. Nobody who reads the New Yorker will have any doubt but that it's complete satire--MOCKING those who use "he's a moslem" scare tactics against Obama and his campaign. | |
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