|
|
|
|
|
| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/2/2008 5:23:11 PM |
I have zero respect for women who have unprotected sex, get pregnant, then whine about how the sperm donor doesn't want the kid, won't see the kid, and won't pay for the kid. HE DIDN'T WANT THE KID.
Then why was he having (most likely) unprotected sex with her? Why was he taking her word she was on bc? Why didn't he take every precaution to protect himself from a pregnancy? Just as you said about how you use bc and use it properly- it's a very slim chance that a woman is going to get pregnant if bc is used and used properly.
If mom doesn't want an abortion or to give it up for adoption, then she should view it as the guy's choice to have "aborted" his half of the responsibility, or given his half up for adoption where she then adopts said half of the responsibility.
I think this is a very good way of saying what the opposition has been saying throughout this thread. It does sound logical, I agree, but it's just not feasible.
I do not want a child. Therefore, I have always made a conscious effort to prevent one from coming about. If I did get pregnant (which, of course, since I use birth control PROPERLY, would've been very, VERY slim) I would've had an abortion. I'm still not going to just abstain from sex simply because I don't want a kid. I wouldn't expect every man who doesn't want a child to abstain either. I don't *ever* want kids, i'm still not going to join a nunnery.
I agree that people shouldn't have to become celibate just because they don't want kids. I do want to ask though- since you're the only one who doesn't want kids who has responded to this thread- do you discuss this with your partner before having a sexual relationship? Does he know from the get go that if you were to get pregnant, you would have an abortion? Also, are you 100% sure you could go through with one? If not, would you give the baby up for adoption/to the father, or keep it? Also, why not have your tubes tied if you are 100% sure you never want children? I realize these might be personal questions that you wish not to answer, and that's cool, I'm just curious about the view of someone who doesn't want children.
p.s. The government DOES NOT CARE if your sperm donor is in the picture or not. They only care when you're trying to reach into their pockets for a hand out. Only then will they pretend to care enough to help you get what you want from the father; because either it's someone else's money or theirs.
Whether the government cares or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is the reality that babies are still going to be born to women without the means to care for them, and these women are going to keep these babies. Someone is going to have to help financially care for these babies so who should it be?
_________________
what kind of parent would a person FORCED to keep a child make?
He doesn't have to be a dad. No one can force a person to actually BE a parent in the sense of physically raising the child. | |
|
| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/2/2008 8:58:53 PM |
Then why was he having (most likely) unprotected sex with her? Why was he taking her word she was on bc? Why didn't he take every precaution to protect himself from a pregnancy? Just as you said about how you use bc and use it properly- it's a very slim chance that a woman is going to get pregnant if bc is used and used properly.
As a woman I can have as much unprotected sex as I want because I don't have to be a mother if I choose not to. I always have the option of abortion or adoption.
I think this is a very good way of saying what the opposition has been saying throughout this thread. It does sound logical, I agree, but it's just not feasible.
It is feasible. YOU wanted the baby, YOU raise the baby, YOU pay for the baby. Like I said, it's only when you start looking for charity does the government step in and help force the sperm donor to pay up.
do you discuss this with your partner before having a sexual relationship? If I'm sleeping with him, he knows me well enough to know I will not be having children.
Also, are you 100% sure you could go through with one?
100%.
Also, why not have your tubes tied if you are 100% sure you never want children?
Done. Had them tied at 24.
Whether the government cares or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is the reality that babies are still going to be born to women without the means to care for them, and these women are going to keep these babies. Someone is going to have to help financially care for these babies so who should it be? If you don't have the means to care for a baby you shouldn't have one. This is an issue I will not be budging on anytime soon. I think it is absolutely selfish for *anyone* to bring a child into this world when they cannot emotionally, mentally, physically, OR financially care for it. It is not anyone else's responsibility to pay for that child or to raise that child, and it is incredibly selfish to expect them to. We make it way too easy for people who shouldn't be having children to have them anyway. | |
|
| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/2/2008 9:47:35 PM |
As a woman I can have as much unprotected sex as I want because I don't have to be a mother if I choose not to. I always have the option of abortion or adoption.
Just because women hold more cards doesn't mean men aren't responsible. This argument makes it sound like men aren't capable of taking care of themselves.
It is feasible. YOU wanted the baby, YOU raise the baby, YOU pay for the baby. Like I said, it's only when you start looking for charity does the government step in and help force the sperm donor to pay up.
Allowing men to opt out in the society we live in is not feasible.
Done. Had them tied at 24.
Well that doesn't help solve the mystery! LOL My bad for the assumption that you had not... glad you did- I think that's definitely responsible. However I was hoping to hear why one would not do this if one didn't want children ever.
If you don't have the means to care for a baby you shouldn't have one. This is an issue I will not be budging on anytime soon. I think it is absolutely selfish for *anyone* to bring a child into this world when they cannot emotionally, mentally, physically, OR financially care for it. It is not anyone else's responsibility to pay for that child or to raise that child, and it is incredibly selfish to expect them to. We make it way too easy for people who shouldn't be having children to have them anyway.
Yes, if you don't have the means you shouldn't, but it's still going to happen. It's reality. So, again, who pays for these kids? | |
|
| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/2/2008 11:26:51 PM |
As a woman I can have as much unprotected sex as I want because I don't have to be a mother if I choose not to. I always have the option of abortion or adoption.
Just because women hold more cards doesn't mean men aren't responsible. This argument makes it sound like men aren't capable of taking care of themselves.
That doesn't make men sound like anything. She points out that BECAUSE she is a woman she will NEVER be a parent under any circumstances if she chooses not to be. Complete autonomy and reproductive choice. That even if her partner is morally opposed to abortion she is still able to opt out and cause the same level of emotional damage to a man that you attribute to women that do this and later have second thoughts.
The whole idea is perfectly feasible. One child you should have known better than to have would keep the parent too busy making ends meet to crank out 5 or 6 while on welfare...... and then switching the welfare burden to the guys she's slept with. | |
|
| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/3/2008 4:11:33 AM |
Just because women hold more cards doesn't mean men aren't responsible. This argument makes it sound like men aren't capable of taking care of themselves.
Exactly. The idea that women alone should be responsible is very backwards and far too accommodating. To absolve men of all responsiblity and leave women with the burden of birthcontrol and child rearing hasn't proven to be good for society to date. Perhaps the fear of a child support order will give men more forethought when they have sex and movitate them to use birth control.
An unstable or generally unfit woman can't get knocked up alone. Maybe if a few more men practiced birthcontrol or abstinence there would be fewer unwanted children. | |
|
| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/3/2008 7:05:59 AM | I don't know percentage wise, but how many people on this forum or on this site chose to have the child by themselves or it was a mistake? I have read so many forums about single parents from a divorce - does that mean that we all just decided it would be more fun to have the child and then file for divorce? I think alot of us out there had children because 'both' partners wanted a child, I don't think the majority of us just decided it was a good way to get support.
I don't totally agree that a woman can have an abortion as a type of birth control, but at the point the child was created both parties knew what they were doing and the chance of what could happen. If just one of the parties had decided to use birth control, than this wouldn't be an issue. I don't think it is just one partners responsibility to make sure they are protected - it should be both of them if they don't want a child, should definitely be part of a discussion before they jump into it. | |
|
| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/3/2008 10:23:43 AM | Firstly ethel the thread is not about married couples and one would hope that they would already be on the same page about what would happen in the event of a pregnancy. But as I have noticed in these threads many times it seems that a lot of couples do not survive due to having children. I can say this based on the number of interviews I have done. Seems the most common response is they didn't realize how tough it is plus the sheer time involved especially with newborns.
One of the partners always felt that the other was not contributing equally to the rearing and then it was a matter of blame. Other factors were finances, post partum depression and denial of post partum.
The ones who survived had a good support network of family and friends who helped eleviate the stress and gave couples a break. For those who did separate, too often rash decisions were made and many could not wait it out long enough to realize their mistakes and an unwillingness to admit or accept some responsibility for the situation that they faced.
A scenario was raised earlier about how a man would explain his reluctance to be involved to that child, well wouldn't the mother be faced with the same discussion as to how they arrived. Most children would hope that they were a product of love and not anheiser busch.
Another has suggested that the couple would have the talk of what if but in reality we really cannot expect the world to stop having casual sex.
Unfortunately men are limited in how many BC options are available to him where as women have many plus and hopefully a last option of aborting an unwanted child. A man is held currently to whatever the woman decides.
Oh and rj I imagine when the woman would explain why she doesn't have a Daddy it might go something like this. Well I was out with the girls and walked into the bar. The first time I saw your father I could tell by the bulge in his pants that he would make a great fuc- er father so I took him home and nine months later you came along. I never really loved him but always remember that I love you and that's all that matters.
If my sister decided to be a sports groupie and slept with a married rich athlete for the money, I guess I would think of her as a slut and if she got nothing then perhaps she got what she deserved.
As far as the couple I guess we are dealing with stupid people who just expect that the government will bail them out. If we remove the bailouts or shorten the length of time they get help for nothing other than having a child then maybe we can stem the tide.
I guess the only thing I can agree with is if a man's only goal id to get as many women pregnant as possible, I would be more than happy to hold the idiot down while someone else removes his testies. But let's be real we need better education for our next generation to replace the shitty job most parents are doing now.
If your not going to teach your children anything about reality and you **** that a school is talking about sex with your bundles of joy then the problem this problem will never go away. | |
|
| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/3/2008 4:36:23 PM |
Just because women hold more cards doesn't mean men aren't responsible. This argument makes it sound like men aren't capable of taking care of themselves.
FINALLY! Some acknowledgment that women DO, in fact, hold more cards when it comes to pregnancy and reproduction!
Maybe we can get somewhere, now.... I like it.
And, I really think this is a big part of why women don't want to admit that there may be some inequity in the whole reproductive rights debate. Women, simply don't want to relinquish their monopoly or any of their power. Why would they, after all? Power is control.
 | |
|
| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/3/2008 4:55:57 PM | Well that doesn't help solve the mystery! LOL My bad for the assumption that you had not... glad you did- I think that's definitely responsible. However I was hoping to hear why one would not do this if one didn't want children ever.
lol, sorry for the disappointment. Although I think I can give a little insight as to why those who are 100% sure they don't want kids may not get sterilized... I had a pretty easy time of it, but apparently many have a hard time finding a doctor who will sterilize them when they're young and childfree (although I think many give up too fast, but don't get me started on those who take doctors' words as gospel), some people don't have insurance and don't have the money to get sterilized, some just think the procedure is too invasive and they'd rather stay on other birth control methods. Even sterilization isn't 100%. If someone would rather have an IUD implanted for 10 years instead (I had an IUD prior to my tubal; and before that I had the pill, ring, patch, and shot. Those who don't want children won't have them. I digress.) then that's also a great option. I can still say I'm staunchly pro-choice and if I did get pregnant, I would still have an abortion. The fact that I have a higher chance of ectopic pregnancy since I have had a tubal ligation would just strengthen that (although it's pretty solid to begin with ;))
Just because women hold more cards doesn't mean men aren't responsible. This argument makes it sound like men aren't capable of taking care of themselves.
Your body, your choice. And with your rights comes your responsibilities. Too many people conveniently forget that.
---------------------------------------
In response to a few other posts that have been posted since my last one, I'll break it down to this: Until a man can force me to be a mother when I don't want to be, I will NEVER support forcing a man to be a father when he doesn't want to be; physically or financially. Choosing to have a child when you know the other party doesn't want involvement is just that; a CHOICE. You made it. You handle it.
This is something that I'm very adamant about for the simple fact that it blows my mind when I think of the possibility of someone else telling me I HAVE to have a child when I don't want one. I can't imagine being in that position. | |
|
| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/3/2008 6:13:50 PM |
FINALLY! Some acknowledgment that women DO, in fact, hold more cards when it comes to pregnancy and reproduction!
I guess all the posts about there not being reproductive equality because women are held more responsible were missed. I guess it needed to be slanted more anti-woman for it to be acknowledged. I guess I should have said men aren't responsible because they can't get pregnant so women are the only reason there are unwanted children and the need for child support orders.
I don't receive child support and last year paid 31.15% of my net earnings in income taxes last year, so excuse me if I'm not jumping all over the idea the men shouldn't be held responsible for thier actions. I wish I could live so irresponsible but I have a womb and am a breeder so I don't have that choice. | |
|
| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/3/2008 6:58:21 PM | | Of course women know more about pregnacy considering an man could never, give birth but men learn alot about it when the time their wife/gf is pregnant. | |
|
| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/3/2008 7:10:47 PM | Well ms.B, As much as I feel for your situation this discussion isn't about you or me for that matter but it's about what lies next. How can we reduce those unwanted children and the need for child support papers.
You make good coin to in be that tax bracket, bully for you.
But if in reality more thought actually was put into having children instead of just accepting the failures of BC maybe we can get there. It's not god's will, it is human failure that usually is the cause.
Are women instinctively wanting children or is it just another societal pressure we have adopted to the point where not having a child for woman is akin to her being seen as not a woman for that choice. Do women have them because they are supposed to? Hardly.
Educate the females in any country and suddenly birth rates drop.
Why? Because women are not here to be just breeders. Just because you have a womb doesn't mean that is your whole purpose of being.
The only reason we keep tabs on birth rates is keep the corporations of this planet happy because another consumer is born.
Think about it here in Canada we are about to overrun with McDaycares, That's right big box childcare so both genders can keep working and shopping so our blessed economy keeps getting bigger. Yeah us, isn't progress beautiful. | |
|
| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/3/2008 7:12:04 PM |
FINALLY! Some acknowledgment that women DO, in fact, hold more cards when it comes to pregnancy and reproduction!
Are you new here? I've said it many times.  I don't think anyone has denied the fact that women have more choices either.  | |
|
| |
| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/3/2008 7:31:17 PM | So, why don't you guys just take that one step further, and admit that it would really be a great and equitable thing to allow men to opt out just as women can?
Men are not afforded the burden or joy of carrying a baby. Once it is possible for men to carry a baby, then yes, they will have a right to abort it. If that is what you are speaking of in terms of opting out. Don't blame us. We were not there during the discussion between God, Adam and Eve. ;)
| |
|
| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/3/2008 7:40:36 PM |
Men are not afforded the burden or joy of carrying a baby. Once it is possible for men to carry a baby, then yes, they will have a right to abort it. If that is what you are speaking of in terms of opting out. Don't blame us. We were not there during the discussion between God, Adam and Eve. ;)
Well, I'm not gonna be rude like some of the women here and tell you to go back a read the rest of the thread, that's for sure.
When I and the other men say we'd like to be able to 'opt out' just as women can, it just means we'd like to have equal reproductive rights. No biggy, really.
| |
|
| |
| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/3/2008 7:46:35 PM |
and what does that mean to you exactly?
Simply this: Women have several options, post conception, to 'opt out' of becoming a mother to a child even if they carry that child to term. Women can even give up a baby and NEVER be held financially responsible. Men have NO such options. | |
|
| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/3/2008 7:50:26 PM | Men have NO such options.
Let's agree to disagree. They always have the option of walking away from the pregnancy, changing their name and entering the witness protection program.
Well, I did an edit, but you got the quote anyway. | |
|
| |
| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/3/2008 8:14:53 PM | Do women play any part in pregnancy or prevention, I wonder
They do. We all do. We *ALL* have to take responsibility for ourselves. I can't count how many men I have ran across that have showed no concern about any financial responsibility that might follow them for the next 18 years at the time.
Life is not fair and equitable, that is why it is so much fun. | |
|
| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/3/2008 8:28:21 PM | MizQ
I wish you had a penis because your logic is so damn sexy.
Are women instinctively wanting children or is it just another societal pressure we have adopted to the point where not having a child for woman is akin to her being seen as not a woman for that choice. Do women have them because they are supposed to? Hardly.
Educate the females in any country and suddenly birth rates drop.
Educating women vs scape goating them is effective.
For far too long men have been able to 'opt out' leaving generations of children without even the basic needs. Which promoted women to believe they don't need a father for their children because men are just disappointments and should be punished. This cycle of irresponsible procreation and parenting does need to stop but it takes both genders to accept responsiblity. If we want change we have to set the example. We to show our children they are valued and respected, then they will seek that treatment through life, they will believe they deserve the best and not settle. They will develop the forethought to have goals and not take risk to jeopardize them.
Why do women feel the need to have children? That is a thread on it's own.
| |
|
| |
| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/3/2008 8:57:20 PM | I'm waiting for someone to use the "I opted out" argument when they are sitting in court fighting a child support order.
If you don't want to 'held hostage' to a woman "holding all the cards" then get a vasectomy AND wear a condom every time you have sex and you won't have to worry about it. But every man knows when they have unprotected/unsterilized sex with a woman there's the chance they will be a father. And they know there's a chance the woman won't agree to an abortion or adoption. That's life. Any man who doesn't know that is living in an alternate reality.
The courts don't care about "opt out" or "women have more choices than men", their concern is the child. | |
|
| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/3/2008 9:01:40 PM |
he courts don't care about "opt out" or "women have more choices than men", their concern is the payment to the child.
There ..fixed the above statement to more align itself with what is going on out here. It's more about limiting their own liability (Welfare) than becoming some benevolent force in a child's life.
O | |
|
|
| Page 23 of 43
|
3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43 |
|
Home
login 
