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| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/5/2008 9:00:44 PM | No kidding I had to keep dragging MsB's reply back and forth.
Thanks Capt.
MsB we as a society have never held women to the same level of accountability as men. It is a patronizing attitude that has seen its' day and we no longer need it.
Some women just don't seem to like the idea of being as accountable for actions as their male counterparts.
This extends into more than just custody or support issues it even enters the realm of violent criminal behaviour.
PMS defense for homicide?
Postpartum depression for infanticide. (which I accept as real but come on sterilize these women).
Or cute stories like this
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26012998/
Murder due to unproven abuse. Shot a guy in the back and did less than 3 months time including time in psychiatric care and then gets custody of her kids right away? Do you honestly expect anyone will believe a man would be held to such a low level of accountability and gotten off so lightly?
The same applies to this topic, women wanting to make someone else responsible for something even when it is 100% her decision. (Recall we've not advocated an "opt out" where the guy AGREED to become a parent.) | |
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| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/5/2008 9:03:23 PM |
The very idea that men are being victimized by woman is BS, just as shitty single mothers contribute to the stimga against single motherhood so do men who avoid their responsiblities.
Yup, just as women being victimized by men is bullshit. I agree.
Do realize if so many men hadn't avoided paying child support in the past there wouldn't be laws to enforce payment now? I audited many men attemping to avoid paying taxes on self employment income not to avoid taxes but because they were avoiding child support orders from their long time ex-spouses. Women didn't screw over your rights in the courts, the men who avoided their responsiblities did.
Ah, chicken-egg argument. Doesn't count.
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| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/5/2008 9:21:40 PM | MsB we as a society have never held women to the same level of accountability as men. It is a patronizing attitude that has seen its' day and we no longer need it.
Really? You believe this? So when men used to be able to walk away from parenthood even if it was based in marriage, that was women not being held more accountable. The fact that primary custody is usually awarded the mother isn't more responsiblity placed on the women?
The same applies to this topic, women wanting to make someone else responsible for something even when it is 100% her decision. (Recall we've not advocated an "opt out" where the guy AGREED to become a parent.)
And who decides when a man should be allowed to 'opt out'?
It's easy to find the negative stories in news, that is what is harped on. How many stories do you hear about parents who divorce without the need for the courts who put their kids first?
Ah, chicken-egg argument. Doesn't count.
Why because you said so? | |
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| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/5/2008 9:31:40 PM |
Why because you said so?
Yup.
What would YOU call it if I made a statement such as: " More men would step up to the plate if women would stop taking them to court for alimony, child support, money, money, money all the time." ?
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| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/5/2008 9:33:18 PM |
And who decides when a man should be allowed to 'opt out'?
The same people that decided you have the right to opt out at your discretion.
On the "ckicken/egg" thing. He is dead right. The women being awarded custody the majority of the time is another example of that hold over patronizing thing(womans place in the home since they can't handle a mans responsibility in the world). But I don't recall the womens groups that said they were advocating on behalf of children actually fight for the better parent with no regard to gender be awarded custody. And these are the same people that were consulted regarding our current laws.
Extremely one side and not working. But unlike them I advocate a balance, something that isn't perfect for either gender but both should be able to live with and feel they are getting a fair deal.
You blame men for courts being unfair to men when women were the ones forcing those changes through the courts with no regard to equity, just more and more power for one gender alone.
Men and women share this planet and we should be fair to each other as much as possible. It will make it so much easier to all get along. | |
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| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/5/2008 9:40:50 PM | Just curious.. how many tax breaks and credits did you get for your kids? Cuz I pay that much in taxes and I don't get shit back. I'm just sayin'... Does that make you a better person because you don't have children? You only get an income tax refund if you have over paid into the tax reserve, you can't receive a return on income tax credits. I'm required to pay each year.
That's not answering my question. If you and i both make the same amount, and we both pay 32% in taxes... why are you getting tax breaks and credits? It's not my fault you chose to spend your extra income on raising children while I choose to spend mine elsewhere.
And I wonder how much more I contribute to the economy?
 As I said in my previous response... you spending your money on kids does not trump my spending the same amount on other things.
I also wonder how much of your decision to not have children is a result of inability vs choice because honestly you sound a bit bitter against fertile women. That's a nice reach there. As I said earlier, if you'd paid attention instead of getting your panties in a wad over some of us insisting on consistency (god forbid)... I had my tubes tied at 24. I assure you, by far, I am not in any way envious of your life. I find it amusing you think i'm "bitter against fertile women." Anyone can have a child, whether biological or not... it does not impress me when people make that choice and try to force others to go along with it. You want choices? The least you can do is let others have theirs; and no, "he chose to sleep with me" is not a valid argument.
Perhaps but I guess it falls with in the lines, you do the crime you do the time. Liablity sucks for some. Gee, that's a great sentiment. We sure love that equality, don't we? You know, the one where we hold all the power. Guess what? In the same vein as "women are the ones who get pregnant! We deal with the 10 months of sickness. We deal with the labor! We deal with delivery!" YOU have unprotected sex, YOU get pregnant, YOU take care of it. That's your penalty for being a moron when you know you're the one who gets pregnant and has all that extra responsibility. Until you're punished by being forced to carry out a pregnancy and raise a child you don't want, why the hell would you put that on someone else? Oh..because it's not you, that's why. It's okay then.
So, your body cannot tolerate ANY birth control? IUD, cervical cap, diaphragm, female condom, sponge? I can't remember all of the non-hormonal BC. Are you opposed to the Morning After pill? In my opinion, any woman who doesn't use BC WANTS to get pregnant or she doesn't care if she gets pregnant. To me, that's unconscionable. I wholeheartedly agree with all of this.
I am medically unable to tolerate chemical birth control. I do use a diaphragm occassionally but rely mostly on condoms. Oh, too bad there isn't any nonhormonal birth control.. oh no, wait.. | |
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| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/5/2008 9:47:47 PM |
I'd say based on men's performance pre-1970 your statement would be kaakaa and delusional.
So now I am guilty by gender of something other penis owners did before I was alive? On top of responsible for YOUR choices in life.
Nice...
Let's not forget it was men that gave you the right to vote, own property and so and so on, so don't just focus on the negative aspects of previous parts of our societies old set-up.
I don't give a rat's a$$ what things were like pre-1970. I may concur they weren't equitable, but that is not the case today. The inequity still exists, just in another genders favour. And since it is today(not pre-1970), I call it out for what it is. If it needed a change then due to inequity you haven't a leg to stand on when denying that todays inequity deserves the same review and change.
Maybe this time they can get it right. | |
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| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/5/2008 10:37:09 PM |
That's not answering my question. If you and i both make the same amount, and we both pay 32% in taxes... why are you getting tax breaks and credits? It's not my fault you chose to spend your extra income on raising children while I choose to spend mine elsewhere.
Population growth is necessary to keep our social programs in tact so it's an incentive. I also contribute to my RRSP each year to keep my tax payable down does that make you feel less entitled too?
I'm pretty sure I'm right about your bitterness.
it does not impress me when people make that choice and try to force others to go along with it. You want choices? The least you can do is let others have theirs; and no, "he chose to sleep with me" is not a valid argument.
My children where the product of a marriage where both parent wanted them so I'm unsure how it was strictly my choice. How am I taking a man's choice away? This is debate not a fight for our lives.
You stated you would have an abortion, what if the man objected to terminating the pregnacy, would you respect his rights?
I believe in equal responsiblity and respect for procreation. Both sexes need to be responsible for their choices, if you have sex, then you assume the risk, how is that such an unreasonable concept. Putting all the responsiblity on women has yet to proven to be successful perhaps the fear of a child support order will give the men who knock up dumbasses a little more forethought.
Oh, too bad there isn't any nonhormonal birth control.. oh no, wait..
Wow you're the first person to ever take little bits of a debate and slant them to suit you, that is very honourable debating.
So now I am guilty by gender of something other penis owners did before I was alive? On top of responsible for YOUR choices in life.
No but you are responsible for changing the inequality that is the result of previous penis ownwers actions. Just as I am responsible to change the stimgas that are the result of my mother's genderation. A man's rights are no longer a given so instead of blaming women for the inequality consider the cause and effect of the past. | |
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| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/5/2008 10:46:57 PM |
I'm pretty sure I'm right about your bitterness. Did you once again miss the part where I said I'M FERTILE and that I chose to cut off pathways to said fertile areas? Third time's the charm.
You stated you would have an abortion, what if the man objected to terminating the pregnacy, would you respect his rights? Nope. My body, my choice, remember? We already had this talk, pay attention.
Oh, too bad there isn't any nonhormonal birth control.. oh no, wait.. Wow you're the first person to ever take little bits of a debate and slant them to suit you, that is very honourable debating.
Um... that response doesn't even make sense. You claimed that your body rejects all forms of birth control. You later followed up by clarifying it was the hormones. My response is not slanting anything. | |
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| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/5/2008 11:09:00 PM | You might have been fertile but you're obviously very bitter against something given your lack of tolerance, judgmental and nasty attitude. Do you think acting like a **** makes you sound more creditable? Or is it a power issue for you?
I just wanted to clarify you don't support equal reproductive rights.
I never said my body rejects ALL forms of birth control, where did you read that?
You do slant things to make yourself appear better. You know what they say about people who need to elevate themselves at other people's expense don't you? | |
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| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/6/2008 12:11:51 AM | WHAT IS THE REAL QUESTION HERE ? IS IT A WOMAN'S CHOICE TO CHOOSE TO HAVE NO SUPPORT FROM THE FATHER OF HER CHILD ?
WOMAN'S CHOICE ; HUH ? WE FIRST HAVE TO DISTINGUISH IF WE ARE REALLY TALKING ABOUT : MONEY SUPPORT OR MORAL SUPPORT
MONEY SUPPORT ; SOME DON'T NEED MONEY SUPPORT BUT MORAL ; AND IF HE HAD NO MORALS THEN HER CHOICE TO SAY NO SUPPORT IS TO : WHAT PROTECT THE CHILD ???? YES ; SUPPORT THE GROUP THAT CHOOSE ; NO SUPPORT FROM THE FATHER
BUT IF THE FATHER IS MORALLY RIGHT ; YES ALL SUPPORT FROM FATHERS'
BIG ISSUE GOING ; MR. O
I GAVE MY SON TO HIS DAD ; SOLE CUSTODY AND SHARED LEGAL CUSTODY ; I WANTED HIM TO GET THE JOY OF DIAPERS, LATE NIGHT FEEDINGS, BABY SITTERS, AND DOCTOR VISITS BUT WHEN HE DECIDED TO ASK ME FOR SUPPORT AND NOT ALLOW ME TO RETURN TO PROVIDE MORAL SUPPORT ; THEN THE FIGHT BEGAN ; NO PERSON SHOULD CHOOSE AGAINST WHAT IS BEST FOR THE CHILD ...CHILDREN ARE CREATED BY BOTH FATHER AND MOTHER NOT FOR THE CAPITAL GAIN OF MONEY
BROKEN CONDOMS ; LAME LAME LAME
ABORTIONS AS MEANS OF BIRTH CONTROL ; LAME LAME LAME
ASKING FOR SUPPORT - MONEY - NOT ALLOWING MORAL SUPPORT IN THE CHILD LIFE - LAME LAME LAME 
STOP PEOPLE
KEEP IT REAL
MR. O { WHY YOU SO INTENSE ON THIS?} | |
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| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/6/2008 12:20:04 AM | I never said my body rejects ALL forms of birth control, where did you read that?
Probably when you said:
my body is unable to tolerate birth control.
and then followed up with
I am medically unable to tolerate chemical birth control. when someone questioned you on it.
Yep, still no slant. Methinks you don't understand the definition of slanting, especially when you say:
Wow you're the first person to ever take little bits of a debate and slant them to suit you, that is very honourable debating. and
You do slant things to make yourself appear better. when they make no sense in that context.
p.s. For someone who has the nerve to tell someone else they aren't debating "honorably," you sure have no qualms about personal attacks. What a shock, coming from someone who doesn't think the same choices she has should apply to others.
I just wanted to clarify you don't support equal reproductive rights. :laugh: You mean by asking me if a man wanted me to keep a baby I didn't want, I'd respect his "rights," and I said nope because it's my body, my choice? You do realize you're just helping my case, don't you? When it's my body and my choice, he HAS no choice. He can't make me keep the baby, can he? Nope. Therefore...I should not be able to force him to "keep the baby"... AAAAAAAAAND we've come full circle. I love when that happens. Redundancy is great. High five. | |
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| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/6/2008 3:39:18 AM | Hey my bad cap, hey I try to learn something new every day.
note to self - no more dots...
Ms.b I think if I was an owner of a tobacco company looking to hire a representative to extol the virtues of my product I would hire you. But come on you seem intelligent enough to not actually believe that this system is working.
I refuse to believe that every man pre 70's beat his wife and kept her chained to the kitchen counter. And if you look at modern culture and consumerism ads are not aimed at men, they came to realize that the household budgets were controlled by women. And it follows that female suicide rates would be astronomical if life was that bad but I can only speak for Western society.
piecescoda is a good example of what equal rights can accomplish. She appears very headstrong and quite capable of not relying on a man to know what she wants or can accomplish. Nor does she give off the impression that just become she is a woman that her sole purpose of being is to be a vessel for a bad man to plant his seed and bear his children.
Perhaps because of our ages we are not likely to see the full effects of feminism but I guess as the boomers die off and all those very bad men are gone (you know the wife beaters and oppressors ) that we may actualize what started with those bra burning 60's and sexual revolution 70's.
Like I have stated before I have taken the time to talk to people and more times than enough I get two distinct impressions.
Young men haven's quite caught up with the changes and find themselves oblivious to how the courts work in the favour of women until it's too late.
But when I speak to younger ladies they seem to be very aware of the rules when it comes to what the laws and the government will do for them.
I would like to see a better way to educate all young people but as we keep cranking unwanted kids into this world and jam the courts with rediculous cases and overcrowd inadequate schools all in the name of "Population growth is necessary to keep our social programs in tact so it's an incentive."mentality.
So again this not about you ms.b but my kids and yours and how they will make decisions concerning bringing loved children into this currently messed up planet.
Try to have nice day and go outside and let this go. | |
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| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/6/2008 4:21:26 AM | I'm pro-choice and believe the men I choose to have sex with have equal reproductive rights, which is why I address my unwillingness to have an abortion before we are intimate. Child support is a non-issue to me because I'm not responsible for a man's actions nor have the desire to force anyone to be a parent. I have abstained from sex on many occassions because I didn't feel I was able to make good choices. I made the decision last year to not have more children because I don't believe it would be in the best interest of my sons.
I'm debating in this thread because I disagree with the idea that men should be allowed to opt out of their responsiblity because there are men who would use it avoid responsiblity. I disgree that women's actions are solely to blame for the inequality of reproductive and parental rights. Birth contol is not an issue only for women, many men believe since they don't have birth control options available they aren't responsible. That abortion is just a little more complex form of birth control.
I'm fully aware how irresponsible some women are but obviously there are always plenty of people to take that side of the debate. Just because I don't choose to take the easy position doesn't mean I'm unaware of the problem.
Ulimiately this is about a child's rights not the rights of the parents. People need to be held more accountable for their actions to reduce child poverty. Child support in theory is the best way for children to get their basic needs met. A child is far more likely to become self-actualized if they aren't worried about their basic needs being met. They will want more out of life and not take risks to impede them from set goals.
It's unfortunate that the men in my generation are being held accountable for the inequality in the past but the transition is necessary. Men now have to fight for equal right vs them being a given.
This is a debate yet you seem to personalize it to the point you can't even use decorum when addressing opposing opinions. I rarely go personal and am never dishonest even if it leave me open to ridicule. | |
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| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/6/2008 4:24:46 AM |
Ms.b I think if I was an owner of a tobacco company looking to hire a representative to extol the virtues of my product I would hire you. But come on you seem intelligent enough to not actually believe that this system is working.
That is because I know how to debate and I rarely choose the popular opinion so I learned how to be effective. | |
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| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/6/2008 12:09:51 PM |
Some women just don't seem to like the idea of being as accountable for actions as their male counterparts.
According to this debate, it's the other way around. Most of us on this side of the fence have acknowledged that we have more choices, and that we are being accountable for our actions. We have the greatest weight on our shoulders because we have to make the ultimate decision on the fate of the baby. The men want an opt out- how is that being accountable for THEIR actions? With our rights and choices comes more responsibility. I'm still failing to see how men should be exempt from any and all responsibility though.
The same applies to this topic, women wanting to make someone else responsible for something even when it is 100% her decision.
Whether the baby lives or dies is our decision, correct. If the baby lives, you can choose to be a part of it's life. If the mother wants to give it up for adoption, you can take custody. Unless of course you live somewhere that it's not required to give the father's information. In that case, I do agree that something needs to be done. The father should be found before any child can be put up for adoption, and if he's fit to be a parent he should get first dibs on the kid.
If there was a fair way to make the decision of abortion be mutual, I'd be ALL for it. I believe that is a decision that the man's opinion SHOULD be considered in, but in reality a lot of women aren't going to do that. Since it's their body, they've got to have that right. It *is* unfortunate and it *is* unfair, but it's the way nature made it. I don't deny that there is an imbalance in the system, but there really are parts of this that can't be equal.
If you and i both make the same amount, and we both pay 32% in taxes... why are you getting tax breaks and credits? It's not my fault you chose to spend your extra income on raising children while I choose to spend mine elsewhere.
Men can get tax credits as well. That's more of a parent issue than it is a women's rights vs. men's rights issue.
Let's not forget it was men that gave you the right to vote, own property and so and so on
Yeah, we really should bow down to men for helping our helpless selves be more independent. We should forget the part where men were the ones that suppressed us for so long. We should forget the part where our grandmothers stood up and said enough is enough! We had to fight long and hard for men to bestow upon us the same rights and privileges that they have.
So if men can't handle that they had to give up 100% control over women, then they need to stand up and say enough is enough and do something about it. YOU have to fight for your rights. Now there's a CHOICE you can make. Either whine about inequality or do something about it.
Nope. My body, my choice, remember? We already had this talk, pay attention.
So I'm confused. Are you for equal rights or aren't you? Because I thought you were, but this says you're not. 'Splain please. | |
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| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/6/2008 1:23:03 PM | | Must write to say I agree. I am suprised by how little it seems people care about the rights of a child to know and have a relationship with both of their parents. What on earth does a a womans right to choose abortion have to do with this discussion. If a child is conceived then it is the responsibility of both to be the best parents to that child despite their own feelings on the matter. a | |
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| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/6/2008 1:37:21 PM | I have read through this discussion with interest as I am a single mother who has refused to let my daughters father have access to her.
I feel as though I have to make several points on this issue.
I was 19 when I fell pregnant, and accept full responsibility for that as although I was on the pill I did not insist that my ex partner wore a condom. That being said when I informed my ex that I was pregnant he said he didnt want anything to do with it, I accepted that as his choice and left the situatuin at that. Once my daughter was born my ex became increasingly aggressive towards me and things came to a head when my daughter was 3 weeks old and he told me he was planning to kidnap her and kill her.
I do not tell this story for sympathy or to say that many men are like this. It is simply ro highlight what I say next. I try very hard to be objective with regards to my ex and I try to see things from my child's point of view. Ultimately I felt that my daughter was at risk from psychological and physical harm from him, and thus stopped his access.
This was all 2 years ago now, my point about child maintenance is that, because I chose to live on income support for the first year if my daughters life so that I could complete my degree, I was forced to pursue my ex for maintenance. I had no choice, it was either that or lose 40% of my income. I feel that this law is unfair in some respects. Firstly it robs men of their right to say they dont want to be involved in the child's life. Playing Devil's advocate I do fully support the argument: why should tax payers have to support my child? And that it should be the responsibility of the father to support his child.
In the vast majority of cases the conception of the child doesnt matter. Once the child is in the world it can't be changed or taken back. The focus of any parent should be the emotional, psychological and physical health of their child, and in most cases that is a relationship with both parents. | |
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| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/6/2008 1:42:19 PM | That is because I know how to debate right.
This is a debate yet you seem to personalize it to the point you can't even use decorum when addressing opposing opinions. Holy hypocrisy. If anyone here has a holier-than-thou attitude, it's you. You seriously have the balls to say that I don't debate "honourably" (to use your word) because I "can't even use decorum when addressing opposing opinions" yet you once again conveniently ignore the fact I called you out on your personal attacks. Last time I checked, personal attacks weren't exactly debate material, nor were they "honourable." Thanks for playing.
p.s. I'd love it if you addressed the responses I gave when you tried backpedaling with regards to your body supposedly not being able to handle birth control. Picking and choosing your responses while ignoring the stuff that makes a point is really convenient. I've addressed everything I've been asked.
Once the child is in the world it can't be changed or taken back. Do you disagree with the idea of adoption? Nobody should have a child they cannot take care of.
What on earth does a a womans right to choose abortion have to do with this discussion. If a child is conceived then it is the responsibility of both to be the best parents to that child despite their own feelings on the matter. Did you actually read any part of this thread? It has quite a bit to do with this matter. The mother chooses to have a child while the sperm donor can be dragged kicking and screaming. He has no choice while you have every choice in the world.
The men want an opt out- how is that being accountable for THEIR actions? With our rights and choices comes more responsibility. I'm still failing to see how men should be exempt from any and all responsibility though. That was not the poster's point. Women don't have to be held accountable for getting pregnant. Why should a man?
So I'm confused. Are you for equal rights or aren't you? Because I thought you were, but this says you're not. 'Splain please. I'm for equal choices. I've said numerous times, a man will NEVER be able to force me to be a parent if I don't want to. We should only extend the same courtesy to the men. | |
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| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/6/2008 1:46:13 PM |
I believe in equal responsibility and respect for procreation. Both sexes need to be responsible for their choices, if you have sex, then you assume the risk, how is that such an unreasonable concept. Putting all the responsibility on women has yet to proven to be successful perhaps the fear of a child support order will give the men who knock up dumb-asses a little more forethought.
hey Beaven:
sorry but I do not believe your assertion that you believe in equal responsibility.
Your last line speaks volumes....as you never talk or articulate equal responsibility's to raising a child through effective shared co-parenting.
Why not suggesting that if you knock up some "dumb-ass" ( your label not mine) then you will be legally entitled or legally required to be involved in the shared parenting of that child.....but like many woman you only talk or think about the cs or revenue stream.
Population growth is necessary to keep our social programs in tact so it's an incentive. I also contribute to my RRSP each year to keep my tax payable down does that make you feel less entitled too?
I'm pretty sure I'm right about your bitterness.
And "pices" spending her discretionary income on things other than the children also insures employment and less strain on our social programs. And I also understand that putting money in my RRSP's also raises my CCTB cheque each month.
So it appears you probably receive cs.....you have money to contribute to your RRSP's which then gives you further money in the form of the CCTB and you want to talk about equality?
And I would not suggest that she is bitter....enlightened? but compared to what some single mothers espouse......bitter is the furthest thing I would suggest. | |
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| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/6/2008 3:39:57 PM |
No but you are responsible for changing the inequality that is the result of previous penis ownwers actions. Just as I am responsible to change the stimgas that are the result of my mother's genderation. A man's rights are no longer a given so instead of blaming women for the inequality consider the cause and effect of the past.
I'm going to have to call BULL on that one.
Why do you think I reminded everyone that it was men that at one time had much of the power, and those same men saw the inequity. Those very same men voted (since women couldn't) to share that power. It wasn't for a big hero cookie for my gender for doing what was right. But to illustrate that man or woman owes each other and our own groups the same level of respect, and to accomplish anything we must back each other up on human rights issues since we're all human .
I'm debating in this thread because I disagree with the idea that men should be allowed to opt out of their responsiblity because there are men who would use it avoid responsiblity. I disgree that women's actions are solely to blame for the inequality of reproductive and parental rights. Birth contol is not an issue only for women, many men believe since they don't have birth control options available they aren't responsible. That abortion is just a little more complex form of birth control.
And there aren't women out there abusing the current system and FORCING responsibility that they agreed previously would not happen? And no protection exists for those men nor is there any accountability for those women.
Oh and birth control is strictly POST conception so therefore exists solely for women(abortion is by definition birth control as is the morning after/abortion pill). Contraception on the other hand exists for both but non-permanent means limit men to condom/spermicide still to this day.
No wonder I heard some crazy feminist on CBC today upset that some young single men ARE infact so sick of this lopsided system they are risking future fertility by insisting on vasectomies in their early twenties. I bet if adoption/abortion was not an option for females in high school/college/university, we'd be seeing them take similar risks so that they are not forced by someone else to be a parent. | |
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| Women's Choice=no support from fathers???
Posted: 8/6/2008 4:07:05 PM | West / Looney
I have also noticed the trend on her from the women that responsibility equals child support. No where in any of their statements do I see shared parenting or that the father might want custody. It is just assumed that the mother will have custody of the child.
Seems to be a pretty sweet deal; first you get to make the final decision as to whether to have or keep the child, second if you keep the child you get to collect child support and finally, and most importantly to me, you get to be with the child most of the time. So, lets see what I get as the father; firstly, no say after conception, secondly, get to pay child support until the child finishes university and will most likely only get the see the child once a week and every second weekend.
If we are to have true equality then it should be shared parenting after the child is born. Why women do not want that is beyond me, but most likely has something to with power, control and loss of the child support. | |
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