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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/14/2008 7:21:14 AM | The main problem I see with this issue is that most of the time, when in a relationship you have to compromise something. If you don't, you are more than likely one of these selfish prima donas that wants everything done your way and only your way and have abusive and manipulative tendencies. So a relationship IS synonymous with some degree of compromise. But here's the problem, your relationship (marriage or otherwise) evolves and you start allowing one thing at the time. It is like the frog in the pot of water. You turn on the heat, only so slightly and the frog simply feels warm and comfortable and never ever jumps out of the water. So one day you wake up and realize that you're the one in boiling water and is too late to jump out. That is why many people, particularly in this site, have been married for 20 years and then bang! They split. Only in retrospect do they realize how manipulative their spouse was, or how they should have left the relationship years earlier. But by that time is too late.
Now, the other issue is how much of your self to give and compromise. I have a very strong personality and are what most women call "intense." What that has meant that I cannot be with women with weak personalities because I swallow them whole and then spit them out, bored by how complaisant they are. So I tend to attract strong women, that are opinionated, bossy, and to great degrees, wild. Women that have to be tamed, that like strong personality men, but also that have strong opinions and are not afraid to tell me no. I cannot stand a Yes woman, they bore me to tears. Yet I also have to be careful, for everything about this has to be about balance.
One thing I have discovered is that beautiful women, more often than not are very, very insecure. While not so beautiful women, tend to be more secure of themselves. Thus the beautiful women tend to fall into relationships that become manipulative and abusive. Perhaps this is not an exclusive of beautiful women, but it seems that way. And the reason I think it is so, is because since they have been able to attract the best males based on their looks, they have not had to work hard at developing other areas. Then, because they can attract any men, they chose to go for men that come across as alpha males, which in terms are very domineering, confident men, thus the cycle perpetuates itself. So this women end up losing themselves in the shadow of the man. This may not be unique only to beautiful women, but that has been my experience and my observation. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/14/2008 8:47:24 AM | We are a codependent culture, starving for love we never had as children...
I believe this statement t be true.....
When we have matured we have usually been through a few hurtful times due to past relationships gone wrong or life in general. Everytime we get into a new relationship we try very hard not to committ the same madness as we did previously...at least I sure hope we try.
Unless we have done the soul searching and the work on ourselves I don't think we end up trusting ourselves to make the right decisions so that the current relationship will survive. I believe it is imperative to know yourself and what it is you stand for what is and isn't acceptable behaviour, what is it that you can live with and what is it that you simply can't, what are your boundaries...there is always compromise in relationships but it should never be at the price of your respect or integrity. I want a person that is capable of giving me emotionally what I can give...meet half way is all that I ask, if two people can do that they may have a shot at lasting love, don't be selfish.
Relationships are a constant work in progress they should never be taken for granted. People need to meet in the middle and work like hell to make it work, with compromise, love, communication and most of all RESPECT for themselves and their Partner.
When we truly love someone its not always how we see things its knowing your partner well enough to try to see it through their eyes as well....thats true communication. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/14/2008 9:36:05 AM | I totally agree with you, Miashakti.
To be grounded in oneself is very important. One should have solid roots, so that he/she does not get swept away by the wind of passion, resentment, anger and so on...We should have a solid base within ourselves before getting into any kind of relationship.
Unless one has the right kind of attitude toward oneself, a feeling of being at home within oneself, one is not going to be at home anywhere. Not only one feel it for oneself, others also feel that solidity. While having done this for oneself, one becomes also an anchor, a rock which others can use. A solid rock is not dented when others lean on it.
I truly believe that the Key is in preserving that solidity.
Some people told me that I scare them; I believe it is because they have no solidity themselves, in other words, they are not internally strong; they might look like alpha males but they crumble when faced with the strength of my principles. In my experience of men, I can say that those that look strong on the outside, usually aren't. But I have fallen for them and brought myself down with them.....Not very wise! Now I look for the softer look, as it is usually more revealing of the strength inside.
In conflict it is better to be receptive than aggressive. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/14/2008 7:18:19 PM | Nah, Outmind, I think beautiful women can be insecure because that is what people tend to focus on. If all you can tell me is how pretty I am, then really, it annoys me. After all, what happens when that goes away - like what happens if I get in a car accident, or gain 10 lbs. Will you still think I'm funny, intelligent, fabulous? Or will you think I am nothing without my looks? People who always rant about my looks - I say thanks and move on. I want someone to have fun with.
That being said, I am a people pleaser, part of my personality. I would get ill around you. Not that you're not a great guy, I'm sure you are. But I like to have fun and get a long with people - play nicely - as they said in kindergarten. I would stuff my feelings and end up with a migraine. I haven't mastered the art of confrontation well, or at all really! I am trying to be more vociferous. I was in one of those long marriages then poof- couldn't take it any more.
Not sure where I was going with this - it's too late to think straight!
Yeh, I''m working on it, see, I challenged your assumption on why beautiful women can be insecure - yea for me. Still, I hope I haven't hurt your feelings. Is that pathetic or what!! I suck at confrontation. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/14/2008 7:19:48 PM |
Vulnerability is a reason people hold back. I have always thrown all of me into a relationship and I always end up extremely hurt.
I think adopting certain safety guards are necessary and even intelligent to be less vulnerable to becoming a heartbroken mess.... | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/14/2008 7:28:39 PM | Excellent thread op. Nothing should be shoved under the rug. It is one of the greatest things about POF and the internet. we can bring things out into the open for discussion.
It's a very good beginning to changing the world we live in. I repress nothing in my life. I am very expressive. Sure there is always a chance that elsewhere there is going to be someone who is going to subtly tell you to "shut up" or "quit whining" which does no better than to Get My Goat on. I refuse for any reason to be stifled. Dialog is extremely important as a conflict negotiation tool. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/14/2008 7:41:45 PM | your original post, imo, describes relationships that are not nourishing or fulfilling and inevitably, will break down, it seems to me.
all relationships are journeys and always show (imo) what we most need to work on in ourselves.
finding the balance between giving and receiving is prime i think in all relationships - especially in people who are on that particular part of the journey.
i am not interested in 'selling my self out', or letting, seeing another do it either. i am interested in finding balance in myself and seeing that reflected in my partner and in our relationship.
for that, i believe, is one of the big keys to generating the kind of love that has the potential to keep growing and helping us on our journey, both individually and together. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/15/2008 2:03:12 AM | Interesting topic ~OP~ I have been asking myself this question very often, how to be in a relationship and still be able to maintain my own true self, without loosing it. I think that once we enter a new relationship, the sense of "us" is intensified, and therefore there is an illusion that "I" is falling into nothingness. I think this is important process of bonding with our partner, and at the beginning of the relationship we tend to spend more time with each other. This is normal process. Once the relationship is established and we are comfortable with each other, the sense of "I" comes back. We are not this relationship, or I should say, I don't want to draw the sense of identity from my status - 'not single, not looking" or "married" or whatever you want to name it.
But to answer your question, I think I would start with remaining 'conscious' in that new relationship and go from there. I know I haven't answered all your question, but I think about it... it is already late. La Jaconde. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/15/2008 4:07:35 AM | As a woman, the older I get the less chance there is of this happening. When I was married, I spent a lot of my life making sure that my ex-husband was taken care of and he was a good husband. However, the marriage was a lot more about making sure that he "felt like the man." In all the years I was married, I always worked, took care of the house and all the things a wife should do and I was happy to do it.
At the same time a lot of my needs were not met, particularly in the intimacy department. That will not happen again. I look forward to meeting someone who I can love and nurture again, however, I will never let my needs fall to the wayside again.
As I say in my profile, I can't be who you want me to be if that is not who I am. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/15/2008 5:04:17 AM |
We are a codependent culture, starving for love we never had as children...
I don't totally disagree with that statement M., however it's never wise to paint anything with a broad brush.
I was raised in a loving family, as I'm sure a lot of us were.
The things I have noticed however, way before the advent of the pop culturish term codependent, is that the generation before us were perhaps not adept at 'allowing ' us to express all emotions. And, they often went against the rules, by displaying behavior that contradicted what they touted as thee 'golden rules'. but i felt loved..and choose not to qualify my parents or myself whether it was a perfect or imperfect love. We've all done the best, with the tools that we have....or had.
In time, and with maturity, we can see that....andlearn from that...I am not sure every human needs therapy, or courses to do a relationship. For all of the information varies so much, with He's not into you, What women really want, Why all men are dogs...haha...no wonder there is a state of relationship paralysis developing.
I wonder if that will be the legacy of 'our' generation. Fear of commitment. Staying clear of love, just incase we are neglecting ourselves. Not sure that is much of a real improvement on what went before.
For instance, nothing in life or writing prepared me..as many, for having children, but they all turned out great....probably because every generation is more evolved (supposedly), and we paid attention to the things that didn't work when we were growing up.
Perhaps love and relationship does not have to be as much of a trauma as we are sometimes lead to believe. We are blessed with instinct, and there are many guides, physical, and non physical that have helped, yes.
Id rather trust that we are as aware as we want to be, so we will attract someone close in that awareness process Hell, if I need a course in relationship, and counseling and therapy, just to approach and begin one.....well, you know, that just seems a bit over the top.....I'm just sayin
Peace everyone
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/15/2008 7:51:09 AM | | Its all about self is it not. Knowing yourself, being self aware.Being rock solid in the knowledge of who we are is a strong protection.Having high standards and morals and sticking to them, gives us self respect.So many people especially women give themselves away in relationships, try to adapt in response to someone else's criticisms, allowing themselves to be controlled.Walking on eggshells because if they say how they really feel all hell will break loose and the OH will leave. It is an unspoken knowledge beneath the surface that both are aware of.Its all about power and who has it. Honesty dissipates that power and compromise makes sure it is shared equally.Having the knowledge that you provide your own happiness and be content alone is the best basis for a successful relationship.Happiness comes from within , from our thoughts, emotional control,attitudes and peace of mind.No one can give this to us but ourselves.We have to own our own power and not give it away.No person can make us feel anything or have power over us unless we give that power to them through our own fears and insecurities.What people do ,is about them, we are not at fault or accountable for their actions. We all have free choice.Self love is much vaunted but is essential, for the person who values themselves demands high standards of treatment and accepts no less.Self neglect leads to unhappiness, bad treatment and diminishment of self | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/15/2008 8:40:13 AM | good inputs, mess 38 and 39!
With one exception....
Unless they had truly enlightened parents who deliberately empowered them, they were trained to 'obey'
In my case I was not trained to obey at all, I was left alone, without boundaries other than my own boundaries. Therefore I have learned that I can always survive by myself. I actually enjoyed not having to relate lovingly to anybody. This is also an extreme that should be avoided as it encourages lack of any kind of compromise......All or nothing approach, not too good....Warm discipline is also needed. When I started relating to a man, I found myself surrendering ( no boundaries at all). To this day I keep asking myself If I am able to love, first of all myself.
The truth is in the middle and balance in relating to others is also important, assuming of course that one has a good foundation of love in oneself.
be content alone is the best basis for a successful relationship I fully agree. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/15/2008 8:41:40 AM |
Id rather trust that we are as aware as we want to be, so we will attract someone close in that awareness process. Hell, if I need a course in relationship, and counseling and therapy, just to approach and begin one.....well, you know, that just seems a bit over the top.....I'm just sayin
now kimbo, i so agree with your first sentence and your reasoning, but you know as well as i do that many have not done 'the work' on themselves and the continuing work on ourselves to feel ready to be the best they can be in a relationship.
ten years ago did you feel the way you do today? did you choose balanced and conscious and aware relationships in that time? were you aware enough and trust you attracted people who 'matched' your awareness?
and yet, perhaps we do always attract exactly what we are meant to, many say, and that two people reach that parallel crossing or meeting of each other's path for the idea that we have spoken of before - a belief that each relationship is the perfect one and perfect person for both people to learn what they need to from that match.....and then i go further to believe that when the lesson is learned as much as those two people can be in that 'class' with the other and for however long the lesson goes on for, then the relationship ends.
i think, for some, the teaching and learning and giving and sharing and receiving and loving goes on until the ultimate end on this realm - death. and for others - for most of us here, i suspect - it seems to me we are so impatient and lazy and don't want to stay for the whole course but drop out early - most seem to be undergrads when it comes to awareness in relationships.....all hopefully moving slowly but surely towards graduating onto the next level of awareness, and hopefully staying long enough to really see the progress not only in ourselves, but in each other.
but, for us undergrads, i think the road is and has been so rocky for so many of us that all extra help is gratefully received....because in our eagerness to heal our neglected selves, we have added to the neglect of others....and vice versa, meaning for some we help others and in the process, do not honor our own needs.....both distortions being the essence of this thread i think - the heart of the op's issue....and people can play both parts too, alternating between being true to themselves and trying to honor others' truths and needs also.
it is why i spoke of balance in my other post. all of life is a lesson (imo) in achieving balance....and the biggest challenge for many is the balancing act of loving and being lovable - receiving love.
if therapy and/or self help books or religion helps - great in my mind.... equally helpful could be waiting to start new relationships until we have truly learned from our previous one(s) - and better yet, not giving up so easily when the going gets tough - if only we really could practice what we preach with compassion and empathy and sincerely loving in the face of adversity (for all relationships reach that moment sometime).
i think yes, we hopefully do find others that match our awareness and the real course definitely comes with living it and not just thinking about it, or reading about it, or writing about it.
if only we could see, in some circles and on some level , no one is neglected - not really. it's almost like just a play going on overlaid on the 'real reality' where everyone has forgotten it's just a play and taking it all so seriously because, sadly, we are playing our parts perfectly. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/15/2008 9:12:13 AM | | OP - great thought provoking post. I love it! Whether we like it or not, eventually we do expose our real selves. Also, I think humans are susceptible to the "fight" or "flight mode", depending on where our emotions are at. There may be times I might suppress my anger or frustration, but there is one thing that I will never deny or suppress and that is my value system. No relationship is worth me selling my value system out. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/15/2008 11:21:03 AM | ~OP~, you said:
I actually enjoyed not having to relate lovingly to anybody. This is also an extreme that should be avoided as it encourages lack of any kind of compromise......All or nothing approach, not too good....Warm discipline is also needed. When I started relating to a man, I found myself surrendering ( no boundaries at all). To this day I keep asking myself If I am able to love, first of all myself.
I can relate to it completely. This is what I thought about when originally writing my response to your question. Once we enter a relationship, there is a compromise that needs to take place. When we enter a new relationship, the sense of "I" starts to disappear and there is a new identity being formed "us". It is about compromising, and about balancing act, that many of us are simply lacking. It is a skill, to be able to co-exist within a relationship, without completely surrendering oneself to it. Balance and Boundry... I think of these two.
I think in order to achieve this kind of relationship, it takes two healthy individuals, and if one of them or two of them are not able to set boundaries, this is an invitation to abuse.
I can only think of my own experiences and see where the problem rose. For example, my last long term relationship was with an emotionally abusive person. I remember that once I found out what was going on, I was soooo longing to be on my own, and to be with "myself", it was priceless to regain the sense of self.
If I remain unconscious I could start blaming a relationship for 'loosing myself', but in my case I know it wasn't the relationship itself but rather unhealthy expectations. So, I hope to be able to attract a healthy partner, where we can both co-exist without loosing ourselves. But this of course takes two fully awake individuals who will create 'holy relationship' versus 'special relationship'.
Holy relationship - "I am responsible for myself in my relationship"
Special relationship - "My sense of myself and my own happiness comes from my partner". You can imagine what happens, if my happiness and fulfillment are not met, this is opening a can of Pandora - blame, abuse and more abuse. If I see that in my partner, them putting those expectations on me, I start looking for my running shoes.
La Jaconde  | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/15/2008 12:19:23 PM |  Morgana
I think people constantly underestimate not only the power of fear but also the influence of our false beliefs about our own value.
We grow up being taught that we are loveable when we are "good", very naturally, by even the most loving parents who want to teach us to be nice people or successful people or whatever. Pretty much all the very nicest people I know, including one or two women on this thread (you know who you are ), my mother, my partner, my best friend, the women whom I admire at work... are givers. Our responses to the idea of being actually selfish, thoughtless, hurtful to others... well I feel physically sick at the idea of my being like this. I'm not talking about doormatty martyrs who get off on complaining about others wiping their feet on them, just to be clear, I'm talking about the kind who delights in being allowed to help, to show love and care to others, who comes to life when they are needed... I'm focusing on this example, although there are others...
These giving, nurturing types need to be giving and nurturing in order to feel like they are a good and loveable person, not only because it's in their hearts but also because that is what their parents taught them long ago was loveable and that other behaviour was not. The contradiction is that these people may love other people who are not remotely giving or loving -- they love people just for being people, for being people who will allow them to give to them. I light up when someone lets me help them, it makes me feel alive. It's easy to be attracted to partners who make one feel like that without realising there is more to yourself than this false way of valuing yourself.
We squash the parts of ourselves that we do not believe are truly worthy of love. A giver wants to give and give and give and believes that the other parts, the parts that make them more human than genie-in-a-bottle, the parts that need to receive love, rather than to radiate it, are not really worth much. And they keep getting attracted to those who appreciate their giving, who tend to be takers, and so the parts never get loved, only ever squashed and neglected -- but that was not the fault of the partner, but the one who thought those parts were best ignored anyway. Even though these needy human parts were the parts that they loved best in others.
I think that if most of us think about it, the way that we value ourselves and measure our own loveability is likely to be on a very different scale or standard to the way we value others of measure their loveability. I have always found vulnerability attractive -- in others and repulsive in myself; failure never makes me see anyone else as being any less valueable or loveable, but it makes me feel my own value and loveability is as nothing. This difference reveals the contradiction that probably underlies most of our struggles and self-made obstacles.
It is very very very hard not to squash down parts of yourself, the parts you don't like very much or don't think are very shiny. Even when you find someone so loving and giving as I have been lucky to find. I judge myself, I find myself often trying, trying so hard to be all that I believe to be good and loveable, to be what I consider to be the best me that I can be... and constantly feel like I am failing because I don't yet understand that he loves me the way I love him, not the way I imagine I might be loved. It is very difficult to imagine someone loving the things about you that you don't like (everyone has some things they don't like about themselves) and would rather overcome and so we constantly try to be better than we are because we see so much in ourselves that doesn't fit our false ideal-self.
Carl Rogers called this idea "unconditional positive self-regard". It doesn't mean believing that you are amazingly brilliant and growing an ego the size of a house; it just means being congruent and evaluating yourself using your own ideas of what is loveable and good in a human being -- the natural instincts of your heart rather than the ideas that come from the way others have treated you and only the limited things for which appreciation has been expressed by others in the past.
Not sure if this will make sense, but I think that we are the ones who set limits on how much we can be loved: it is not so much to do with what others are willing to give as how much we are able to receive/accept. I am extremely lucky in finding someone who is at a similar place to me and who is learning and growing with me in this way. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/15/2008 12:20:58 PM | | This is well written, to the point, and absolutely the truth. I am impressed and moved by the sentiments of this post. This is good stuff. I read this with the assurance that I wouldn't cringe after, or wish to take a bath to clean off all the self righteous spewing that this site seems to attract. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/15/2008 2:00:52 PM | A very moving thread...
I can identify with everyone's suffering as it is my own as well.
Who am "i" the question becomes and how can i stand in a world that does not understand, want or love 'me'. Although some people waiver i have always been myself, even if i hid the tender parts from people who could not love me. I was often confused and could not understand that when i revealed myself that it was rejected or simply to much for another person to understand and accept.
Like many who get to my age i had completely given up on the idea and even believed all the lies that everyone had ever told me about myself. I mean of course they must of been true, I was the one alone and suffering. And it was clear to me that I would be alone for the rest of my life because i was just broken and no one could love me. I thought the best thing i could do was to isolate myself from anyone and everyone.
How much of yourself is a lie that you believe and how much is the actual you? We are not who we are in isolation because in isolation we are in coping mode. When we interact with people we seem to compromise ourselves, suppress ourselves and live in denial of ourselves, but at the end of the day how do we know what is true about ourselves? Different dynamics that are created with others don't seem to reflect who we are, how come? Until meeting my special someone I didn't know, and if it wasn't for her i would of ended up in the ar$e end of nowhere making violins hiding from the world.
What i learned from her was who i am and now i am learning to stand in the world as i am. Through many months of talking I learned that most of what i believed about myself was a lie, much like the lies everyone else has been told about themselves and believe. I still have a long way to go in really knowing myself and being completely congruent with myself. But finding my special someone has given me enough insight to be able to accept her love freely and more importantly Love her freely.
It's what we all crave and need and I just happened to be the luckiest to have found this. Been able to uncloak myself with the right person. I think this is key, finding the right person. I think we all have done the right things with the wrong people and ended up changing what we do because we want things to be different. Instead of just realizing we were right all along but just with the wrong person.
A bit of a ramble but i'm sure some will glean what they need to hear.
and i hope it is this...
Don't believe the lies about yourself | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/15/2008 2:18:29 PM | dear rune and crazyl - both your posts moved me so. thank you.
and thank you, op, for starting this very moving thread full of honesty and humility by so many. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/15/2008 3:10:32 PM | hey M. thanks for the reply. It is indeed hard to put all of your thoughts down in a little box, but I am hardly a Pollyanna story....it has been a rigorous path to get to 'somewhere', to a place that feels comfortable, actually.
Having had a blessed childhood, you had a lot more than a lot of folks, and that gave you good instincts and a foundation of love..Perhaps you may not be able to relate to the sadness, or numbness or buried rage and resentment of those on the other side.
Well, I choose to consider it blessed, in that there were no horror stories that many, including many of my dear friends have undergone. I didn't always feel this way, for I too was witness to many incongruities by parents , and not really allowed to emote...but, it is only through the practice, of forgiveness and acceptance, that I am able to over look the sins of the Fathers and Mothers. And of anyone, for that matter, for only by continuing onthe Path of forgiveness is why I have arrived at at least this point of acceptance that all is as it should be.
Because so many did not learn how to love themselves they assume it should come from a parter, from a relationship, and when it doesn't because the other person is as lacking in a foundation of real love, and/or the ability to express that love, as they are, they have to turn somewhere, and the plethora of stellar information available today is a real blessing, and can help many people who would otherwise spend their lives and their salary on a shrinks couch, can learn and grow and heal from some of these other resources.
Again, I am only reflecting from where I am today, in this minute. I think by far , the hardest lesson has been to love, and honor, and not neglect myself. That does not make me a 'graduate', or indicate that i had an easy ride to arrive here. I was, however trying to inject some positivity toward all, if for no other reason, that we can give ourselves a pat on the back for what we are now, and how far we have come. I will always continue to learn, for I am by nature an information freak. And, I have read almost anything I can get my hands upon about Life, Love, and Suffering and Progression. Not to mention, if I had in my hands right now,all of the money I've spent on therapy, I could travel in my private jet now, instead of my 22 year old car.
Quote: "I'd rather trust that we are as aware as we want to be, so we will attract someone close in that awareness process"
The 'we' here is a bit of a broad brushstroke don't ya think?...
No, i don't, actually...I think the keywords in that sentence are" I'd rather". I choose words that hold some hope of empowerment... Id rather not look upon myself as a victim of life any longer than need be....for as Caroline Myss says..there is a time to let go of the wounds, we can simply make a choice to do it when all of the wounding is not serving us anymore. We, meaning all of my brothers and sisters on this earth, not referring to Kimbo as a member of an elite few. I have overcome a lifetime of depressions, divorces, and substance abuse, and I do believe the ability is in all of us to heal. If anything, I am the one that says, If I can do it...then you can too.
Since so many in these forums are attracting experiences and situations that are not at all complimentary. Kudos to you, if you're not...but obviously you're not the only fish in this polluted little pond.
Im not the only fish? huuhhh...well, I didn't realise that. but, thanks for pointing it out. After a lifetime of attracting many experiences, some good, some not complimetary at all, it is just so damn refreshing to notice the difference. My only goal is to continue to learn until this body is used up...but, every now and then, it's like with your kids, when you finally get a good grade in something, it's 'OK' to celebrate that...and feel good about it, and share some positivity. Life lives, and it's all good.
Peace
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/15/2008 4:06:07 PM | The lies people tell us as crazy lilting has said above , lies like "you cant do it" " you are bad or stupid or unattractive. Growing up in childhood is in a way like being hypnotized every day with different suggestions, being programmed.Parents have great power for good but often get caught up in their own hopes and dreams and forget their child is a unique individual in their own right and not them. They may have this fantasy child in their head and they get little Mary who wets the bed.When it comes to kids as the parents on here know, they are completely themselves.Many get scapegoated in a family as the wild one or the clever one.Boxes and more boxes.To love unconditionally and not put our own issues on others is very difficult.Mum may have wanted a pony but its likely little Bessie will hate horses.We have to accept others as they are and make it obvious, so they can safely be
themselves.
It takes a lot of guts to be honest, to show ourselves completely and take the consequences. We are taught certainly to be nice, smile sweetly, tell others what they want to hear to get our needs filled. But we deserve respect and love as a matter of course just for being who we are.We believe the lies others tell us to manipulate or control us. but to observe the facts every time and examine our thinking and emotions will reveal these lies and give us freedom.One of most hurtful things is the thinking that we need the approval of others to be valuable people.That we have please people all the time, and neglect our needs.Its when we approve of ourselves and get our needs filled appropriately and value ourselves the same as others that we find personal happiness. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/15/2008 7:38:19 PM | I do believe this has to do with boundaries. You need to work on your own. You need to feel the differencce between a harmless compromise and a soul-wrenching one. I would recommend a very good therapist - a smart one. I'm not being critical here. I think boundary issues are very difficult. Sometimes we think we're being loving, giving and understanding when infact we don't know how to draw a meaningful line. Here's what happens...you give up parts of yourself to paint some pretty picture and then...you find yourself acting out in other ways. Insignificant little issues take on huge meaning when you don't address the real problem.
We all want to make nice. But trust your gut. Don't gloss over issues when they come up early on - face them head on. This doesn't mean react - let things simmer a bit (this is where a good therapist can help you figure things out) and act with clarity.
When you need to express yourself in a relationship do it without criticizing the other person. If you have good boundaries you'll be able to be firm, clear and kind. I think the more you understand about your core - what makes you YOU, the less you'll find people will ask for an accomodation you can't make.
That'll be 50 cents.
Maria. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/15/2008 7:50:15 PM |
now kimbo, ten years ago did you feel the way you do today? did you choose balanced and conscious and aware relationships in that time? were you aware enough and trust you attracted people who 'matched' your awareness?
Uhh....well, no Dear One...actually at that time, I never even thought that I would feel as good as I feel today. 10 yrs ago, just stands now as a marker as a darker time...going through a very difficult divorce while 'knowing' that i had to hang on to my recovery, for myself, for my children. In retrospect it was both extremely difficult and traumatic, and yet a divine reward.
and the biggest challenge for many is the balancing act of loving and being lovable - receiving love.
Ahh...sortof like the Great Wallendas, there is always a chance that Poppy may fall. By far, mostly what I see in people, and that's included me, is that we somehow feel incapable of receiving love. The only hope for that is to weed out the fear, for that is seperation from Love. The fears that we cannot receive love. These are indeed cultural and personal scars that cut to the bone. I see two challenges here....to accept all of ourselves, the loving us, as well as the hurt and not perfect us.. That's not easy. But the ultimate challenge is to find someone who accepts us 'as we are' at this moment. Flawed and all. And, vice versa. That is the only enironment where real love can persist. Anything other than that is just playing 'let's Pretend", and really, why bother with that.
equally helpful could be waiting to start new relationships until we have truly learned from our previous one(s) - and better yet, not giving up so easily when the going gets tough - if only we really could practice what we preach with compassion and empathy and sincerely loving in the face of adversity (for all relationships reach that moment sometime).
And, when does that moment come? We can make a plan to spend a year , two years, reviewing what went wrong in previous relationships, but what happens when we plan? Usually something intercedes.... and really, don't we 'know'...we know inherently and almost immediately why some of our relationships fail. Again, I quote Caroline Myss on relationship....you can process the details of it in 3 days, 3 months, or 30 years....you really do have that choice. Unfortunately, in todays times, people seem to bail when the going gets tough. When perhaps that is exactly what we need to stay for. That is where the lesson lives, for indeed all relationships will reach that moment...many times, actually.
(i believe) that each relationship is the perfect one and perfect person for both people to learn what they need to from that match.....and then i go further to believe that when the lesson is learned as much as those two people can be in that 'class' with the other and for however long the lesson goes on for, then the relationship ends.
I get this, intellectually, you know i do. But part of me doesn't feel in perfect synch with this thought. And, of course, I can't 'explain' it in mere words. I'll try, anyway. Perhaps I , like many of us have felt like this: ....I understand much more now then I did then, as you say, and I have had plenty of lessons...and, being older now...I really don't want to look at my next love relationship as the next 'lesson'. And... who am I to say when the lesson is over. At this point, if it were for the lesson, then I would want it to be my last and forever lesson. Now, of course this may sound like folly, or maybe a bit of imagining on my part, I admit that...why? Because no matter what I want...it doesn't matter....I have thrown up my hands and I understand that the Universe itself makes the decisions here...but could I give it a little nudge in the right direction? Just a little nudge? I'm just sayin'.
As I said, this is a tough one to put into words. Let me think about this one a little more;
as usual
I appreciate your thoughts that always make me dig just a wee bit deeper.
my best to you
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Kimbo```````````````````````````````````` | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/15/2008 8:23:06 PM | Just a thought akimmbo, in response to this
I just don't want to look at my next love relationship as the next 'lesson'. I also think this is an absolutely horrid way to view lovin relationships. A person's value is infinitely greater than the value of what you can learn from them, in my opinion. I see life as being a learning experience in which we have opportunity to move along a path of growth. Sometimes this personal journey can be greatly enhanced by a companion, a fellow traveller, whose path may or may not lie beside ours until the end of time but whose company is valued for as long as such companionship is possible. Two fellow travellers whose perceived destinations and perceptions are in synch will together pick a path that is different and better than the path either one would choose alone. A traveller who attaches to someone merely because they do not want to be alone, rather than because it was the natural result of being already on the same path and going the same way, will learn things and follow a different path from the one they might otherwise have chosen, and so long as they continue to find sufficient value in their companion, the fact that they are going along a path that is against their nature is not cause enough for them to end the partnership.
As crazylilting said, sometimes we are doing all the right things but we are with the wrong person. One of the big things for both of us was allowing ourselves to be as our instincts dictated rather than as previous relationships had taught us we were wanted to be. Negative learning is a very real thing as any teacher knows: often you have to remove the layers of learned misunderstanding before the student can see the truth and very often the things we learn in mismatched relationships do not contribute positively to well-matched relationships, in my opinion. I also believe that who we are is revealed mostly by the way we relate to others and that some of the issues that repeatedly arise for us in relationships are personal issues that can only be resolved in the context of a relationship because that is the only context in which they arise.
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/15/2008 8:58:33 PM | Great Post Rune.....very interesting to me....
A person's value is infinitely greater than the value of what you can learn from them, in my opinion.
That resonates. And, whether the Lesson analogy is horrid or not, I can't say, however I can't deny we've all had them , and needed them(lessons)....but it somehow creates a feeling of dischord within me to envision wrapping loving arms around a lesson.
As far as the path analogy, I look at it like life itself...and planning itself....Look at all of the people who have died before their plans came to fruition. And if Life's destination is a bit sketchy, as it often will be, then, it doesn't really matter what path you're on, but who you are journeying with, as you state. Let's get to 'somewhere' together.
One of the big things for both of us was allowing ourselves to be as our instincts dictated rather than as previous relationships had taught us we were wanted to be
How true. And boy, have I got that one. In many ways, I feel free to discover more than I ever have before. The voices of my past relationships used to be much louder...with basically the same message, that they would end in failure. Either that...or I was not who I was supposed to be. But as I state time and again..I really don't know how to be other than who I am. Luckily, those voices are but faint whispers now.
And true,we cannot resolve personal relationship issues, if we are not in one. So, many times, we 'are' speaking from past experience, experiences that may no longer apply. We can only read yesterday's newspaper so many times, yes?
so thank you, for your insights here
regards,
```````````````Kimbo``````````````````````````````` | |
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