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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/16/2008 12:54:20 AM | rune and kimbo-
k-I just don't want to look at my next love relationship as the next 'lesson'.
r - I also think this is an absolutely horrid way to view lovin relationships. A person's value is infinitely greater than the value of what you can learn from them, in my opinion. I see life as being a learning experience in which we have opportunity to move along a path of growth.
Hmmm, to me 'learning experience in which we have opportunity to move along a path of growth' is exactly what I mean by 'lessons'....learning experience = lesson.....and yet if I share my other thoughts, maybe I can illustrate my previous post better.
I realized afterwards when I wrote that post to kimbo about my thoughts (that we ahad both agreed on before, but now you disagree) when I wrote it in the past, I used the word 'experience' rather than 'lesson' and I think you both picked up on that.
So, each relationship to me is the perfect one for both people to experience what they both need to....or a learning experience (lesson) in which we have opportunity to move along a path of growth - absolutely I agree.
To me life is a journey of learning - and, really, of remembering what I believe we all know in our 'higher self' - that we all are on the path of raising consciousness - of learning about ourselves which is mirrored in others - that we are all students and teachers of each other.....and that, to me, internally and externally are one....but I'm jumping ahead now.
So to clarify - it's a journey of discovery - a beautiful journey that includes every experience we have - to me that teaches or reminds me what was forgotten as our ego's took hold and started dividing us from each other and from parts of ourselves that we feel perhaps are not lovable (as rune and crazy spoke of that so moved me in my heart). to me, yes, part of life is learning to embrace and love all of us - which reflects in our ability to love and embrace all of each other......so raising consciousness, basically...or, as some 'masters' elude to - touching on levels of consciousness that already exist - so experiencing the spectrum of what already is....
So, seeing and accepting all - from the most glorious in our environment and ourselves to the least glorious internally and externally is part of this path of growth - of this life of lessons, which you both had difficulty with that word, but to me calling it a 'path of growth and learning' and 'lessons' are really saying the same thing.
I also wrote that post in context to this thread - the lesson being learning that delicate balance when in a special relationship with another - that balance of how to utterly be with yourself and be with another and not be in conflict in terms of balance of care for your and the other's needs - of learning that balance so you don't lose you or put so much of you into another that you feel a loss of self.....
I believe it's exchange of energy always moving through us all and it seems, for me, with some, their energy together is more naturally harmonious than with others.
Also, each person is, or learns to trust they are grounded in themselves in their 'well' of energy, and love is synonymous with the word energy also.....so as we grow, we grow in our level of trust in ourselves and each other that we can't lose ourselves when with another - but quite the reverse - that the 'well' is bottomless in terms of love and a well matched person will also know they have a bottomless well of love within and so as much as you 'give away', there is always an infinite supply, both internally and externally too.....so we can't really lose ourselves once we realize the other, as some say, really is ourselves if we share the view that we are one....that we are reflections or mirrors of each other.
I believe two well matched and harmonious people energetically (which touches all of their centers - mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually) - will enhance each other's growth in significantly apparent and deeper ways....just as two ill matched people will, but I believe it will be a more painful journey - coming more from fear than love, because there is an intuitive knowing or sensing this other person is not well matched with you.
Again going back to crazyl's post - that he found with his special one - that her love has brought him to places he thinks he never would have gone without her.
My wording perhaps made it all sound too technical, I can see that now, but it was just the way the words that came through in that moment of writing.
I see life as infinitely greater than how you, rune and kimbo, reduced my thoughts to - the greatest 'lesson' or 'path of growth' to me in life is our path of love - both giving and receiving - or, as I have tried to write above - giving and receiving to me is exchanging of energy - that is the essence and yet, when it comes right down to it - I don't feel I can write or in any way really do justice in words in a small box here to what I feel the depth and breadth of life or love is all about.....besides, the real essence to me is not talking or writing about it - but living it! It is all a path of discovery for sure - or re-discovery.
And thank you both, r and k, for equally making me dig deeper to clarify and express my thoughts too.  | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/16/2008 1:15:57 AM | WeAre1 -- my post wasn't intended as a response to what you particularly wrote, but as a response to the general idea, promoted by many, that "people are lessons" -- this was how Kimbo worded it and I think what he was bothered by. My response was to his post and his wording and interpretation of the phrase only, not a guess at what I thought you meant to say or a criticism of that.
There really are people out there who see it this way -- "people are lessons" -- the people in their lives are valuable only in the extent of their contribution to the individual's own personal growth. I was not assuming that you saw it in this ego-centric way that seems to be a product of the "me me me" thinking that is so widely promoted at the moment. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/16/2008 1:37:54 AM | This is great thread and very thought provoking, thank you everyone here to share your thoughts. Your posts challenge my own little world where I feel comfortable right now. There are some great points that really spoke to me, and it is in message #46 by crazylilting
He said:
How much of yourself is a lie that you believe and how much is the actual you? We are not who we are in isolation because in isolation we are in coping mode. When we interact with people we seem to compromise ourselves, suppress ourselves and live in denial of ourselves, but at the end of the day how do we know what is true about ourselves? Different dynamics that are created with others don't seem to reflect who we are, how come?
This is what I also already know, that by interacting with people, and especially being in loving relationship I am able to "see myself". He is my mirror, my own reflection and without him I am not able to see me. To me relationship is a spiritual encounter, we have met in order to continue our spiritual lessons, a vehicle to higher consciousness. I tend to believe we attract people who are on the same or similar level of consciousness. I have had this once on my profile, it said that our soul recognizes the same frequencies of the other soul, and we are drawn to each other, even tough it doesn't make sense, but the pull is strong.
I know I took the point of crazylilting little bit further, but I want to emphasize the positive impact of relationship with the right person (as crazylilting pointed out). I never feel so fully alive, awake, sensitive to seeing beauty but only when I am in a loving relationship with Him. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/16/2008 4:41:46 AM | There are so many great points in this thread, I have found my mind happily cranking it over for several days now…
I’ll start with where crazylilting left off…
Don't believe the lies about yourself
A truth in my life is “the problem” doesn't seem to be lies people told me…
“the problem” was invariably the lies I told myself about me
and the lies others believed about themselves.
OP: How many people in a relationship deny, suppress or repress a meaningful portion of themselves?
Why do they do it?
In my experience in adult relationships, I can recall very, very few examples of where another person demanded I deny, suppress or repress a meaningful aspect of myself… nope, nope, nope… where I have done it, and masterfully at times I might add, I was a willing volunteer… even, at times, seemingly clamoring for the opportunity to do so.
There’s an inside out factor at work in this for me… I know I am a strong person and can “handle it” (whatever that is) so I have been guilty in the past of taking things on that really weren’t mine to shoulder. As a giver, it is important to realize that taking on someone else’s stuff is not giving them the best gift of all… the ability to be a fully functioning person.
FG: I think this happens because people fear their thoughts/feelings will be deemed wrong or flawed. They fear being misunderstood, confrontation, judgments, rejection, and being left behind.
But it isn't until we're openly sharing ourselves as we are, vulnerabilities and all, that we're truly sharing in our relationship and allowing that person the full picture of who we are. We can't blame them if we aren't openly revealing, and we can't blame them for the angst we experience in holding back.
Excellent post FG. The only one I can think of not on your list is disappointment…. For many years I didn’t voice what I really wanted/needed because I didn’t want to face the disappointment I would feel if I was let down. A different type of rejection perhaps… trying to avoid profound sadness. And also, as with all defenses, it equally blocked the possibility of joy. As well as being truly human and vulnerable in disappointment.
I think we need to allow ourselves “do-overs”. Most especially as one is developing "new muscles" in a growth area where you are learning a new way-of-being. Sometimes you agree to something or volunteer for something and, once in it, realize you’re a bit conflicted about it or that it just doesn’t feel right, or even that, although you thought you were ok with it/could do it/handle it… you find you can’t, or not in the way you agreed or some difficulty you didn’t anticipate. Go back and change it up. Have another conversation; explore what’s going on and what you both need and want. We learn about ourselves constantly… we need to incorporate our learning and our wondering into our daily lives.
Sometimes this takes great listening skills – to ourselves – and an ability to trust – ourselves. We know the answers to all our confusion and conflict… most times we fail to give ourselves respect by listening compassionately with what’s really so for ourselves.
Compassion… funny how, for some, it is much easier to give compassion to others than it is to give compassion to ourselves. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/16/2008 5:19:42 AM | Ah this has me thinking a lot.
I have found that being a passionate person, a lot of the men I have encountered are intimidated by me and find me a challenge. When they realise I am not going to change, I become 'high maintennance' and too hard to deal with, and they walk.
I will admit when I love, I love with as much I can give at that moment. Sometimes I have given a lot, sometimes nothing at all. I am yet to find a happy medium.
The last relationship I was in, according to my ex I was indecisive and not being true to myself. The thing was he bullied me to open up .... It's this simple, I will open up when I am ready, not before. I will not be someone I am not, and I have ended relationships with some wonderful people, simply because I won't be what they want me to be. I will eventually resent them and I know this.
I know what I am, and what I am not capable of. I have never been ashamed of that notion ....
I am yet to find a person who understands that I am not some project, I am a woman with wants, needs, expectations ... and because of this, I have become very harsh with people.
I do believe we should all be true to ourselves, but at what cost? I believe there is someone out there for me, and I am not going to accept anything but what I deserve, but what happens when I am 80 and I am still on a single's site alone? 
Could being true to myself ruined any chance of real happiness? Is contentment not enough anymore? Is happiness actually overrated? Is changing onesself such a bad thing? I just know one thing, I do not want to die living with a 'what if' hanging over my head because of something I was too stubborn to change or at least compromise because I was being 'true to myself ...' | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/16/2008 5:23:15 AM | How far will some people take it ?
Some people take it right up to the " I Do"
All because they fear being alone
And will give up the best parts of themselves to please someone else | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/16/2008 5:28:14 AM | A thought SarcHasm...
Sometimes when people say they are 'being true to themselves', what they are actually being "true" to are their defenses. I'm not sure I can nail this thought (my thinker is overloaded these days) but IME, people who have really come to know themselves are more flexible/less rigid, more compassionate/less harsh.... they allow people their humanity because they see their own.
I think if how one has life organized is causing one suffering, then it's time to reexamine ones way-of-being.
And will give up the best parts of themselves to please someone else
hmm... giving the best parts of myself has pleased me and is - I'd say - the moments when I am happiest and most free. Perhaps the difference is in the notion of "giving up" versus "giving" and the motive for giving ... give for the love of giving rather than "to please someone else" which suggests an expectation of return.
Giving, if it didn't please the other would be a rather pointless gift though, would it not? | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/16/2008 5:51:45 AM | Ok...that's it...I'm printing this thread out...it's at least as good as any self help lit. out there...maybe better...
Margo talks about do overs...wouldn't that be nice...but we all know that what had to happen to get us to today..had to happen...
this whole thread, with everyone's thoughts, does indicate that we are incorporating our learning into our daily lives...thats for sure.
As far as People as Lessons...well, I said it was a hard thing to explain...and I do get it..and wasn't reducing anyone's thoughts.....it was actually almost a footnote in my post..something im nudgy with, but not particularly 'bothered' by.
I'm just sayin' means...just that...and I'll bet this weeks paycheck that every single one of us that posted here has said.at least once...."God, enough lessons already" . hahaha.
thanks all
y'all made my day
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/16/2008 7:41:38 AM | k - my personal small prayer for a while now has been that the lessons be gentle...please!
I also utterly agree, margo - it's not giving up - it's giving....and as I said before, in fact, the more you give (away/up/just give), what I've started to see is the more you have.....that my internal well of love re-fills automatically.....
meaning, the more love or compassion I feel and put into a situation or person - the more I feel within myself too....and not coincidentally, usually that is what comes back too, but that is not the reason for doing it - it's more like a perk, or bonus, a incredibly wonderful by-product or gift the universe gives back to me....sometimes from the one I have loved, and sometimes in other ways.
like-wise, the more closed heartedness I am with a situation or person, not surprisingly, that's what comes back too.
as you said, it becomes an issue when I am expecting love to return if I feel love for another...because then that is attaching a condition, a requirement for the gift - and gifts are for giving unconditionally.
it saddens me when I see love is being used as a bargaining chip - just like it saddens me when sex is also - for both to me are sacred, really....and not commodities for manipulation to get what we want.
sometimes I am reluctant to show my vulnerability - afraid I will be abondoned or made to feel shameful - and in those times, I can see it's my fear acting more than my trust in love - and that is when I remember that wonderful title from the book - "Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway".....and that is what I try and do.
and sometimes I just have to sit with it - with all these feelings and not act (don't laugh, sometimes I keep my mouth shut long enough for the impulse to react to pass....it's one of my lessons or companions clearly sharing the path with me at the moment! :)....
for me, it seems, life and everyone I come across really is a mirror - and it has become more and more apparent as I have gotten older - in other words, I can't get away with anything anymore without it coming right back and giving me a smack!! and good thing too, or how would I learn?!
(and before that word comes back to haunt that some think I approve of abuse - I meant a smack figuratively - not literally, though sometimes it feels like the real thing.)
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/16/2008 7:49:33 AM | The answer to the original post, is simple:
Those who are afraid of being alone, do not know themselves well. So, given a choice between losing a partner, and losing themselves, will lose themselves. They will suppress what they don't know (well enough to know its importance), to keep what they do know.
As the OP said in another post, not knowing yourself means you won't really understand, for instance, what it means to be an alpha male...so you find c0ckiness, not confidence. The former, needing to show itself off, the latter not needing it b/c it knows it already exists.
When you know yourself well, you won't fear being alone. You may not like or prefer it, but denying yourself--a person you truly respect--will no longer be an option.
Of course, this can be taken too far, where your arrogance keeps you from any good relationship, too. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/16/2008 8:20:31 AM | k - my personal small prayer for a while now has been that the lessons be gentle...please!
Exactly
yes, darlin', that is a prayer said by many of us by now, of this i am sure.
that is the more accurate version of what i feel. For, we both know, magical thinking aside, that the lessons will continue, and indeed they must.
And in many ways, perhaps our prayers are being answered, for only through our growth and healing, I do find that the lessons are indeed , noticibly more gentle at this stage of life. Due in part, I'm sure, to not reacting, or over reacting, but more like active listening and digesting. And, as we discussed, many can split hairs over words and how they are perceived, but ultimately, i do believe that most of us are paddling in the same direction
have a great day
Kimbo```````````````````````````````````` | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/16/2008 8:33:08 AM | | In response to the original post only...I think way too many people equate wants, needs, "requrements" and the search for them....to be weakness. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/16/2008 9:31:20 AM |
When you know yourself well, you won't fear being alone. You may not like or prefer it, but denying yourself--a person you truly respect--will no longer be an option.Of course, this can be taken too far, where your arrogance keeps you from any good relationship, too
So true (to me). | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/16/2008 11:21:22 AM | Oh mia - now that is a funny thought and vision -
Personally, I'd say broaden your view of what a great future might look like....Who knows, at 80 you may be wearing your first well fitting bikini, and hanging out with the people of your wildest dreams.
I am still giggling with the vision....added to the one I used to carry when i still indulged with herbal recreation of my circle and family all in wheelchairs at 80 or 90 passing one with Pink Floyd or Grateful Dead playing into our hearing aids!....um, your vision and mine don't quite mix for some reason - but, wait, expanding in possibilities, they certainly could! :)
Actually, I'm not waiting till 80 for your vision - I'm doing it now, girl! It's the here and now for me all the way.....otherwise what's the point? - Otherwise I feel like I'm neglecting me to think what I wish to be has to wait for some point in the future, otherwise could be waiting for eternity....
It's like giving my Self permission to be
who I am right now....for if not now, when? 
EDIT to add: - yes, K - I totally agree - I think most of us are paddling in the same direction.....in fact I think all of us (humanity) are paddling in the same direction, but at different speeds and in different degrees of modes of transport - some fly in their super fast ultra modern get out of the way speed boats and killing those who can't flee fast enough, some use a canoe like the kind you make :), some are swimming around in this pond with no life jacket at all and some are accepting help, some are helping, some are not accepting help, determined to do it all on their own, (and some are drowning) - but most are following the flock - cuz somewhere in the distance we see something that's got our attention for sure and those at the front are sending back the message to the rest - come on!....oh and then there's mia and her circle paddling up on the most beautiful paddle steamer in their custom made bikini's....cuz she decided to jump on board now - oh wait - it's my paddle steamer actually - and it's holding a whole lot of people....it's holding who ever wants to come along.
how does this have to do with the thread topic? because in my wishing not to neglect me, I wish not to neglect anybody, actually. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/16/2008 12:13:05 PM |
How many people in a relationship deny, suppress or repress a meaningful portion of themselves?
Why do they do it?
One part of you clamors to be heard and responded to, and the other parts of you go into the accommodation mode. By continuing
to compromise and deny important aspects of yourself you stay anxious and conflicted.
Why would you risk selling yourself out? How far would you take it?
Perspective is everything. 
I see a relationship as a "nation of two". When you swear citizenship to that nation, you make a commitment to upholding it's constitution - and that's been set up to benefit all members of that society.
( OMG, someone seems to have spent just a liiiitle too much time in the political threads, hasn't he ?  )
That "constitution" must be written by both , and for both.
There's no "leader" , as both are when required to take the oath of office.
It is a bit like society, in a way. One can still be an individual, and enjoy that experience - but you also have to live with others and accept their right to the same thing. If the commitment you have to that "nation of two" isn't there, if that isn't your primary concern - then you will slowly start to drift apart over time.
My aim is to find a complimentary personality, and someone who understand this, and sees it the same way. That's the platform I'm running on. As long as we see exactly eye to eye on this one, we can differ on many other topics of concern. I expect that, and I embrace that totally.
I don't want a clone of me, I want someone that brings out the best in me. I trust I can do the same for her, and we can both grow together.
I don't see this as "selling out" in any way. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/16/2008 1:34:49 PM | This is a thread ultimately about the self and where it begins and where it ends.Emotional independence is sometimes seen as coldness when in actual fact its healthy and protective. The emotional independent person loves and gives from choice and desire not neediness or to get something back.They do not do not feel pressured by others to breach their own or others boundaries.Should we always watch that, we are getting a much as we are giving, always keep score.Do we give so as to get or for the pleasure and joy of giving.Should we keep account, keep score so the emotional books balance.Why not give because we have such an abundance of goodwill towards another because we simply feel like it. No pressure, just free choice.Real intimacy involves being intimate and distant.It involves being affectionate and close but it is also safe to take space and do your own thing without recrimination.This is a relationship with freedom from fear of being left and freedom from clinginess and responsibility for another's happiness.There is no desperation or one giving too much. Both are emotionally sufficient in themselves , are happy together and apart.When a partner has that space for themselves without guilt or recrimination , it is safer for them to give themselves to closer intimacy and affection at other times.People often fear losing themselves in another and disappearing if they get too close.But if the scales of separateness and closeness are balanced this will not happen.
It is true the more we need others, the more we will crave to control them.In contrast the more independent and confident one is on their own, the less need there is for control.You can enjoy your partner and relax instead of worrying your needs wont be met.The person who gives too much away of them selves in a relationship, do so from anxiety and fear.The relationship for them is based on this fear so they act like they cant do without the partner.Give up more and more of themselves and end up helpless and needy and bitter.By giving up ourselves we become boring, half alive and likely to lose the relationship. Love should be given from free choice not need, gain or fear of being alone. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/16/2008 3:25:37 PM | Amen! I loved the way you expressed the concept of Self and Emotional Independence, Db.
Be an Island onto yourself, and you will be of help to everybody else. Pretty much the point I am at now. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/16/2008 9:28:41 PM | yes, kimbo...this thread rocks. I follow your advice and want to do the same - print it all ....he, he...I mean, I enjoy it, too!
Yes, know thyself first before entering a new relationship, be comfortable with yourself.... I heard ya, all. Certainly, this is very true. What I also have found out, that no matter how well you know yourself, there are things ahead of you that are going to be risky, hopefully lessons are going to be gentler, yes... I hope so, too. But nothing is guaranteed. I find this to be true. You will never know how compatible you are with the other person, what lessons are to be learnt, until you dive into the experience, I mean dive, leave the shore, without hanging on to rocks, go for it.
Personally, I know what spot I am in my own journey, I am far from ready to dive into it all, freely and without any fear, but I hope some day I will get there. I won't criticize myself for where I am right now. In the past, I was much more free in giving myself to him, but today I am much more cautious for good reasons, I believe. It's possibly He will show up, and I will recognize him. I don't know about you, but for me there are months, years when I can go without him, I am busy sculpting myself, and then the time comes, I usually feel/know he is about to show up again.
Hopefully, next time he comes into my life, I have learnt enough about myself, that I won't need to loose myself in him, because there will be strong sense of my own self. But then as I am writing this, I question it all. Why there is such need to control not to lose myself. Providing he is the right person for me, perhaps I will be just fine, perfect if I loose myself in him. My point being is that I don't want to be so on guard with myself when I am meeting a new person, whom I enjoy. It is real fun to actually trust yourself and knowing that I will be OK, no matter what. I get great enjoyment and great sense fo being alive, when I actually stop controlling myself, not having to apply breaks, this is freedom, IMO. Because I know already enough about myself, that whatever happens I will be OK, even if I mess up again, whatever....
OK, maybe I am doing analysis paralysis of this thread, but what I know that regardless how many wise books I read, or awesome advice I hear, nothing is black and white and nothing is as it appears. Life never stops to evolve, we constantly discover something new. I never want to arrive at the place in my life when I will say, "OK , now I know it all".
I hope I never get there.
La Jaconde. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/16/2008 9:52:54 PM |
Hopefully, next time he comes into my life, I have learnt enough about myself, that I won't need to loose myself in him, because there will be strong sense of my own self. But then as I am writing this, I question it all. Why there is such need to control not to lose myself. Providing he is the right person for me, perhaps I will be just fine, perfect if I loose myself in him. Jaconde, it is true. When you find the right person, there is no need to hold on to your identity for fear of losing it (being overly self-sacrificing, and neglecting parts of yourself, for example) -- you grow, into more than you ever could have been by yourself.
Like two pea plants twining around each other, you lose track of whose leaves and tendrils are whose but you know that both yours and his reach higher than they could without the twining support of each other and it really doesn't matter whose are whose any more; you're growing together as one. No, I am not quite the same me as before I met my special someone, but the me that I am was inside me all along, I just have greater strength, courage, support to grow in that way.
I think the feeling of fear comes from trying to find what we know love should be with people who simply cannot sustain the kind of dynamic that matches us -- a pea and a bean plant grow at very different rates and in different shapes and they will always inevitably be distinct and separate entities and provide each other with very little support: the wind blows and they separate, one falls down... The pea will not be able to pretend to itself that it is a bean for very long. Self-deceit through wishful thinking is the way in which you may feel that you lose your identity, it's not a true part of the relationship dynamic when you happen to be with the wrong person -- it's just the effect of self-deceiving wishfulness.
Just my opinion. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/16/2008 10:42:34 PM | rune3, thank you for your words of wisdom. I think I have 'run' into you before in my previous incarnation as "Mona Lisa smiles", I remember you have 'wise parts to yourself'.
Interesting, as I was writing my last post, only by writing, I would ask myself more questions. Being 'a solid rock' as I am begins to bore me, and I don't find it satisfying for a longer journey haul. Again, as I am writing my words, I begin to discover, all this is being revealed to me to be a part of a process.
I think it is necessary to retrieve back to yourself after failed relationship, to regroup, to recenter, taking an inventory, assess and to rethink. But once you do that, you are whole and complete again, ok let's call it 'healed' (I write as I speak). I am ready again to take risks, ok maybe I am much more wiser now, fine.
I like that comparison you are using, tow peas versus a pea and a bean:
Like two pea plants twining around each other, you lose track of whose leaves and tendrils are whose but you know that both yours and his reach higher than they could without the twining support of each other and it really doesn't matter whose are whose any more; you're growing together as one.
This is beautiful description of the idea of growing as one, once you are together you are one, a couple, yes. I see what you are trying to portray, two peas it is like to perfect circles, but circle and square, just don't match. Your description is much more beautiful, I feel it.
Next, you said:
Jaconde, it is true. When you find the right person, there is no need to hold on to your identity for fear of losing it (being overly self-sacrificing, and neglecting parts of yourself, for example) -- you grow, into more than you ever could have been by yourself.
Absolutely, and Amen! I did try to say this earlier in my post, but was not able to highlight my point at that stage. Precisely, that's why I view relationship as sacred, he helps me to feel myself with much more intensity than I would ever have imagined by myself. In a sense I would say relationships are holly encounters, it is like spiritual practice.... but when I am on my own and think about everything I need to know, it is like I am rehearsing some theory that I know, but I am not living it. It is OK to some degree, but then there is another phase in life, or not.... hopefully, yes there will be...
and the last one, you said:
No, I am not quite the same me as before I met my special someone, but the me that I am was inside me all along, I just have greater strength, courage, support to grow in that way.
Exactly that, I would add, your sense of own self is much more intensified, so you feel alive! And how did you achieve that?
Not by being single, but with him, the right person to be with.
Ah, thank your for your thoughts. La Jaconde ( french version of Mona Lisa) | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/17/2008 11:00:40 AM | Wow. I am so moved....once in a while a thread comes along that touches the heart and soul and I, also, am so grateful.
LJ and Rune - words are few (for me that is rare, at least on these threads lately:)....
but I was reminded of something reading your words, LJ, about knowing on some level you know you're going to be ok...until the next wave rises.....and then awareness of Ok'ness returns....and then....
I was reminded of something told me by a very special and wise woman - the closest to me (and many) in this life - she died last year and I saw her two days before she left this realm and, despite the morphine, her last moment of focus and clarity was when she sat up and her eyes were clear and she looked at me and said,
"You're going to be fine, you just have to believe it." | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/17/2008 12:02:01 PM | Oh I did this for many years when I was with my ex. After we had children he totally changed, became a control freak and I thought I was doing the right thing by keeping the peace for the kids sake, and in doing that I gave him complete control without realizing it.
I woke up one day and said "who am I???" I had lost the real me somewhere along the way, the one that voiced her opinions, spoke her mind. That was the day I knew it was over for us. I had to be true to myself again. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/17/2008 12:21:26 PM | This may sound really jaded and sad. But for myself, I have learned over the years how to pacify and keep a man around and happy if I want to. Just read any of the "Catch him and Keep Him" articles, alot rings true. Shine yourself into the image of the good little Stepford wife, and usually the guy will want to stick around. You know the drill , pretty, sexy, complimentary, great cook, massages, totally interested in their life, don`t ask a thing for yourself, serve, serve, serve, you know the whole geisha concubine thing. They eat it up. I have learned to never bring up any of my concerns needs or wants to a man ever. So basically, the guy is happy and I am for a while because I am a giver, until I get tired of the always one sided realtionship. Then I move on and take another when in the mood. Men are simple creatures. Keep them fed, stomach and ego, don`t ask a thing of them, respect their freedom and make their lives better is all that they are mostly interested in.
Do they know me? No. Do they want to know the real me? doubt it. Does it bother me?
Sometimes. But I do know and accept the nature of most men and what he can and can`t provide. I have made the mistake several times in the past to go to a man for comfort, or care, or security, only to always be totally disappointed in their inability
to provide any of these. So basically I think I understand what a man is good for, for the most part. You can`t feel neglected when you accept that a romantic interest is not a vessel for emotional fufillment.If I want love, loyalty and companionship, I`ll get a dog.
You can only lose what you are willing to give up. As long as you know that a relationship is not the end all be all of your life, ever- you will be strong and fine. I will not put the TLC of my fragile psyche ever in the hands of another, especially a love interest. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/17/2008 1:20:53 PM | | ^ Oh my, that is so sad. That is my honest reaction. Your post speaks of so much resignation. It's kind of thrown me for a loop. | |
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| The Neglected Self
Posted: 7/17/2008 1:21:27 PM | Desert Wildflower (beautiful name).
Before I met crazylilting, this was pretty much what I thought too. I had not met a man -- or anyone who I could truly lean on -- they would either not understand or not care. I am a very capable and self-sufficient person and so I decided that was fine, I wouldn't be asking for what apparently was too much. The one-sidedness does get old but there is more to it than that -- you are never vulnerable, you are never truly open, you never put them in a position where it is possible for them to hurt you by letting you down. You may not realise it but your lack of emotional involvement will be felt and felt as a lack, too.
You can only lose what you are willing to give up. As long as you know that a relationship is not the end all be all of your life, ever- you will be strong and fine. I will not put the TLC of my fragile psyche ever in the hands of another, especially a love interest.
I think there is more strength in taking the risk, knowing that you can cope with the risk, than in holding back from taking the risk.
Before I met crazylilting, it used to make me angry/frustrated that someone would want me to need him, to need his help or support or whatever, but to make it clear through his behaviour that he was incapable of being there for me emotionally. I knew that if I had a problem, he wouldn't help -- if I was upset, it was better for me to sort it out myself, alone, rather than involve someone who simply couldn't cope with me being upset and would take it personally, make it worse, whatever...
Part of the responsibility for this dynamic was mine too: it most definitely was not all about his failure to understand me or failure to be unselfish. A big part of it is that I am most unimpressed with myself when I stumble and fall, when I am weak. I do not consider myself anything other than pathetic when I am in a position where I might need help. I am one of those who does not like to be seen crying, who would rather be ill alone. Stuff is easier to cope with without a witness to one's weakness. Adding an unhelpful witness who I thought would judge me as I judge myself was something I saw as too much to take. Oddly I do not despise weakness in others, only in myself. The despising though (and I think you might share this) leads to disallowing anyone from loving this part. No-one can comfort you when you are feeling weak if you are busy beating yourself up and kicking yourself for that weakness and pushing yourself really hard to overcome whatever it might be. There is no space for them to be what you dearly would like them to be, even supposing they are capable of being it, at that moment in time.
My partner can't fix everything, nor can I expect that he's even going to respond in the most helpful way, but I have to dare to give him the chance. I know that he wants to stand in the fire with me and if all he can do is be with me, to know what I feel, I must try to dare to allow him that. It is perhaps the hardest thing for me -- so much of the way I respond to things is about holding stuff inside myself until I sort it out and negative learning from past relationships makes me feel that it is unacceptable for me to feel confused or to express feelings of hurt or pain when their source may be illogical or unclear. The kind of intimacy I want involves no barriers, no secrets and that is really hard when I am feeling pathetic and struggling to cope -- I feel so unloveable then that it is really hard to even give him the chance to love me. But it is worth trying, it really is.
If you ever wished that someone cared about your feelings as you cared about theirs; or wished you had a soft spot to fall into or a shoulder to lean on as you so often seem to be, then the main thing seems to be that you have to be brave enough to allow someone to try to be that. If you never lean on them, you'll never know if they could support you just as well as you can support them. If you don't dare because you feel you cannot cope with them failing to take your weight, you might want to look more closely at that -- did you set them up for failure in the first place? No-one will ever be able to protect you from the world and solve all your problems, but they can be truly with you when you dare to let them and that intimacy may not solve outside things but protecting yourself and solving problems is not really the point, intimacy is.
Very fortunate to have found someone who lets me know he wants to stand in the fire with me.... still have a way to go with letting him, sometimes. | |
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