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| how long should I wait?
Posted: 7/15/2008 5:52:02 PM |
If the feelings and passion are there then there has to be a reason she is hesitating.
Sigh..I have really tried to ignore you lately..lol..
What you don't seem to understand is that many women don't have feelings and passion that soon..sometimes we grow into it. We aren't all wired like most men. There have been few, if any, men I have known in my life that I immediately wanted to sleep with before I knew who they were. And even when I did, I rarely, if ever acted on it..after learning at a young age, it just doesn't work most of the time..
And before you mention the instant "soul mate" chemistry stuff...great..that is very rare, and if I wait for that, I may be single the rest of my life..being as it's only happened to me twice in my entire life..and neither man was available..kinda stupid to think it's something easy to find. And even then...past experience would make me very cautious...and nothing he said at that moment would change that...
However, I have become passionate about a man after time spent with him MANY times..or a little spark became a BIG one..you can't presume to think that because you feel this way, or some others do, that we all do..it isn't a conscious choice kind of thing...it's just the way I am.
This implication you always make that women are either frigid or not interested is YOUR OPINION...it doesn't reflect the way many women feel..and since you aren't a woman and can't possibly understand how we think..trying to apply a man's viewpoint to a woman is silly at best, and naive at worst. You aren't in my head or my body..you can't tell me how I SHOULD feel, or interpret what I do...
Passion is not always instantaneous..it also is not always a good thing...and trust me when I say , mine isn't any less intense because I choose to not act on it immediately..if anything, it is probably more so, because it is based on more than the physical, instant attraction thing...
So, for yourself this may work, and it is how you think. Don't presume you know best for everyone..and even worse, that you understand women so well, you can tell them how they should behave...
This, to me, is basically just another shaming tactic to make a woman feel bad because she won't have sex right away...hogwash...and reminds me of when I was a teenager... | |
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| how long should I wait?
Posted: 7/17/2008 3:01:10 AM | OP, she has the right to wait one week, one month, one year, or until oil falls to $10 a barrel.
You have the right to act on your feelings by saying "sayonora" if you feel she's playing the not uncommon romance-on-a-hook-while-bagging-a-friend game.
If it was me? I'd dump her, because
she says she wants to call the shots
I find it ironic and fascinating that most of the ladies on this thread call for "compromise, communication" and all the other so-called mature and respectable psych buzzwords, when what the above quote easily translates into is "I'll make the decision whenever I feel like it in the nebulous and indefinite future, and you'll live with it". To preempt the rebuttal of "but he can just walk, he's free to do so" is not reading the text: obviously she has plans for a "slow cooking relationship" by the quoted words he uses.
There IS no relationship here. You've dated three times. dave 1234 is correct: keep dating other women because (my favourite tautology) a sexual relationship is null without sex, and if you've got your act together there are many, many worthy women out there who would be happy to date you and express an early desire for sexual activity (if the chemistry is strong, natural and mutual) since that is how you -- with every right -- feel it best FOR YOU.
Good luck. | |
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| how long should I wait?
Posted: 7/17/2008 3:06:10 AM |
Ladies, we do appreciate y'all not being TOO easy, giving it up on the first or second date is BAD if you are looking for a relationship..if you give it up on the first two dates we figure you're just in need of a good bang/casual-occasional/fwb type stuff.
Attention ladies of POF...right there is a guy telling you straight out...sex on the first or 2nd date doesn't seem like you're looking for a relationship. So for all of the woman who keep asking "giving it up too soon" questions...I hope you're ready this. If you have to ask, you already know the answer...but bigshrek has confirmed it.
(hope they don't make you turn in your man card for giving that away..lol) | |
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| how long should I wait?
Posted: 7/17/2008 6:59:04 AM |
(Msg 51) Sigh..I have really tried to ignore you lately..lol..
I’m difficult to resist, huh? 
What you don't seem to understand is that many women don't have feelings and passion that soon..sometimes we grow into it.
I think that’s what the OP is questioning. For me, I wouldn’t want someone who has to grow into me. It means the person is “just not into me”. They are seeking reasons to be into me. Who would want such a partner?
This, to me, is basically just another shaming tactic to make a woman feel bad because she won't have sex right away...hogwash...and reminds me of when I was a teenager...
Most teenagers have logical and concrete reasons for waiting, from unwanted pregnancy to “seeing what’s out there” as far as dating is concerned. As adults we can deal with those things.
Who would want a partner that requires they grow on them? It means one thing. It means they are not into the person.
(Msg 53) Attention ladies of POF...right there is a guy telling you straight out...sex on the first or 2nd date doesn't seem like you're looking for a relationship.
Let’s take a closer look at that. Suppose you’re dating a guy and he tries to get you into bed. You refuse but keep dating him and later on you become intimate. Six months or a year later he tells you that if you had gone to bed with him he would have dumped you. Would you feel good about knowing that? Would you be happy knowing you have invested a year and fallen in love with a guy who would “pump and dump” any woman he could get his hands on?
Let’s use an analogy. Let’s suppose a guy asks to go back to your house shortly after you meet and you decline because you think he just wants sex. Time passes, you continue to date, then one year later he says, “If you have agreed to go back to your house when we first met I wouldn’t have tried to have sex. I would have waited until you went to the washroom and then I would have tried to steal some of your jewellery. But now that I know you I won’t steal from you.” Would you be happy to know you invested a year with such a guy? | |
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| how long should I wait?
Posted: 7/17/2008 7:07:27 AM |
My question is how long should I wait, we clearly have the hots for each other, but she says she wants to call the shots, and gets scared when she goes out of her comfort zone?
At least she makes no bones about being controlling, so if that's who you want in your life, by all means let her "call the shots". Before too long, she'll be telling you what to wear, what to think, and will pretty much dictate everything in your life. If you are seeing someone, who uses sexuality as a point of control, you are in for a miserable experience. | |
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| how long should I wait?
Posted: 7/17/2008 7:26:09 AM | I've already said my piece and can only add that I think it's odd that so many people turn this into a control issue. OP would like to be intimate fairly soon, the lady doesn't. It does not have to be a matter of control or him being looking for sex only.
I find it very childish to immediately jump to the "you are an a-hole" attitude that many women do and I find it equally childish to jump at the "she wants to controll you" attitude that many men do.
As onlookers we don't know this people at all, we don't know why they do or say the things they do. OP had a concern that he voiced, maybe not the correct way, and he is met with all these judgemental attitudes.
It's really up to them what they want to do and when and the key is to communicate and find out what they are comfortable with.
From msg 44
Ladies, we do appreciate y'all not being TOO easy, giving it up on the first or second date is BAD if you are looking for a relationship..if you give it up on the first two dates we figure you're just in need of a good bang/casual-occasional/fwb type stuff.
Well that's good to know. If a man who claims he is looking for a relationship is indicating that he wants to have sex the first or second date, we know he is lying.
Obviously he is only loking for some action.
So tell me, why would a man then, who is looking for long-term, even ask the question? | |
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| how long should I wait?
Posted: 7/17/2008 7:36:41 AM |
If a man who claims he is looking for a relationship is indicating that he wants to have sex the first or second date, we know he is lying.
Where in the world do you get that idea?
A relationship, for me, HAS TO begin with strong, overwhelming mutual attraction. I was married for 20 years, and have had two other relationships that lasted over 5 years. I've also dated a lot in life. The common denominator was that ALL 3 of the long term relationships began with us sleeping together on the first date, because we were both so "into" each other from the start, that it couldn't be resisted. On the other hand, it has NEVER happened that someone I continued to see, when we weren't sexually intimate after 3 or more dates, ever became much of anything.
That's not to say that EVERY date that turns sexual is going to be a great relationship, merely that it's ridiculous to say that if a man and woman are overwhelmingly attracted to each other, and act on it, that they aren't "sincere". | |
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| how long should I wait?
Posted: 7/17/2008 7:58:47 AM | msg 57
Where in the world do you get that idea? It was a sarcastic respons to msg 44 that I quoted.
According to that poster, a girl that "gives it up" too soon. Is not looking for a relationship even if she says she is. Ergo, a man who asks of her to give it up cannot be looking for a relationship either, even if he says he is.
A relationship, for me, HAS TO begin with strong, overwhelming mutual attraction. I agree completely. If I don't have that attraction from the start, I never will. I am not the type who will grow into it like some women obviously do. We are all different.
it's ridiculous to say that if a man and woman are overwhelmingly attracted to each other, and act on it, that they aren't "sincere". That was my whole point. msg 44 seemed to only claim that a WOMAN who acts on her sexual desire for a man is not sincere but the man is and will judge her as insincere if she wants the same thing he does and asks for even though is is looking for long term.
It is warped logic. | |
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| how long should I wait?
Posted: 7/17/2008 8:06:47 AM | | OP is separated (that means still married)....How long would I wait to be come intimate with him if I were interested? Well it surely would be at least until he was no longer married !!!! and maybe even longer....for until he IS divorced, he is just a friend and nothing more. | |
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| how long should I wait?
Posted: 7/17/2008 10:34:27 AM | I wish someone would take the sex "rule book" and smash it to bits, run over it, and burn it to a crisp!
We're individuals. How can we expect "across the board" rules to be effective when each and every one of us is an individual, and each new encounter is different than any other encounter, as it should be?
When I struggled with this issue, it was because I was placing expectations on sex that didn't belong there and using it as a tool to gain something, even tho my intentions weren't all that evident to me and seemed to be instinctive and natural.
Most often, it was an issue of using it to keep them around, and it went a lot like this...if I "give this up", you need to stay because it's very, very special to me". But that's not what sex is about. Sex is about sharing in something that already exists, as is; it's not about steering that something into a place you want it to go in an effort to gain something from it. It's not a tool for bartering or controlling.
I don't think people should come aboard until they're in such a place that they won't feel they've lost something simply by sharing it. Sex isn't about "giving up" something, it's about sharing in and expressing a mutual attraction and affection. I tend to view it as a celebration and embracing of what already exists.
The only time I ever lost something by having sex was when I came at it from an unhealthy, manipulative, game playin' place by trying to steer the ship into wherever I wanted it to go. Once I let go of that and came to a place of understanding why I felt the need to do that, I was able to respond to sex in a whole new way, and I actually began to enjoy sex on a much deeper level. From that point on, I never felt played or used because I was having sex when I wanted to and because I wanted to, without expecting some guarantee from it. If the fella I was sexing up poofed away, it didn't lessen the experience we shared because I was expressing my feelings for him, in the way that I felt them. What happened after the fact can't undo that because I was being real.
There were lots of times that it cut a bit cause, sure, I wanted to continue exploring with him. For me to have come to a place of sexual readiness, then I had feelings for him. If he didn't return, it stung. But it stung because he didn't want me enough to come back, not because I had less value by "giving up" something so sacred. My value isn't up for grabs for someone else to determine...only I can do that.
Theres a huge difference in lacking a readiness and desire to be intimate and coming at sex with an agenda that's about controlling/guiding the relationship. That's why open communication is key. If we're not able to say "I'm just not feeling it and here's why", then they might easily make the assumption that we're trying to play them for some reason, and apparently, there's lots of reasons! (Who knew?!) Most folks won't dik around with that because they don't care for playing a game with something so vital to a romantic relationship.
I can't believe I'm gonna admit this, but apparently I am, lol. But before I admit it, I want to say that my husband and I started out on the same page about sex--that being that while it was very important to us, there was nothing casual about it--and we had a very intense chemistry that was beyond physical attraction. We never thought twice about judging each other in terms of when we decided to have sex. Now, we did tease each other about who'd break first, but we didn't come at sex as being the answer to a question...we already knew the answer.
So...we met the day after he first contacted me, and the next day we met again, and again the next day...and we've been together ever since and we've been going at it like rabbits the entire 2.5 years. When did we have sex? Hmm...it seems we were having from the end of night one, in bits and pieces and in many ways, until on night three, when we went at it like animals. We just knew it was something we had to experience further (we were already experiencing it...if you follow?) and we knew it'd take a very long time to explore.
Interestingly, instead of it being me fighting him off, it was the other way around, lol...but he still felt the need to assure me that he wasn't gonna poof away, so he teasingly decided we wouldn't have early sex. Hahaha...as if!  It happened on day three, but he was fighting me off on day two. :)
We had sex because we had a desire to be as intimate as we could possibly be, in every way we possibly could, and we had a strong desire to share physical pleasure. Sex was just one of the ways we were intimate; we were having sex long before our bodies joined the first time.
I really think we were like that because of our collective levels of readiness, and because we knew we were onto something really good.
I think what we struggle with the most, and why this is so hard for us, is that sex does bond us and most of us need to feel safe in that what we're sharing isn't viewed casually...but you can't bond what doesn't exist. To sit around waiting for it to mysteriously happen is a waste of time, as is holding out for some type of emotional guarantee. Have sex when you're certain that you won't be losing anything and can handle what follows, aren't trying to solve some riddle, and are about to explode. Yum! | |
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| how long should I wait?
Posted: 7/17/2008 10:44:58 AM | I can understand that she wants to wait, but "calling the shots" is a poor way to put it. Will she then call the shots in all areas of your relationship?
If she has been separated from her husband for THREE years and has not been intimate for that time, I smell something strange. If she has dated other men, apparently, her desire to wait surpassed their time tables.
How long are you willing to wait? What are her reasons for waiting (really)? Is she merely putting you off because she is a control freak and wants to rein you in? What are the parameters and perimeters of her "comfort zone"?
And how can a person go three years without sex? | |
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| how long should I wait?
Posted: 7/17/2008 10:52:27 AM | Past hurts have major impact on present feelings, desires, needs and wants. She may be dealing with a past hurt and needs time before she can fully trust you. If you're really into her, for more than a sexual based relationship - then wait. Massages? Can be done without sexual intimacy. Just be patient and respect her wishes. If you are not that into her, then do the respectful thing and be honest and move on.
Gwendolyn - I out of my own beliefs and personal choice - went three years without having sexual intercourse. There was play. There was intimacy. There were offers. But after having been some what, of a player in my younger years, and experiencing a massive hurt - I chose to wait three years. My last boyfriend, I fell for hard and fast - and felt very close to him so I CHOSE to have sex with him. We lasted nearly a year. I did a lot of self-improvement and worked on spiritual development during the three year, I'll use the term sabbatical, and absolutely do not regret the choice. I learned more about myself in those three years than I would have otherwise. I explored things sexually on my own, I would never have done with other people. It helped heal a lot of past hurts, and helped to move onto a meaningful relationship. | |
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| how long should I wait?
Posted: 7/17/2008 12:24:13 PM | You have to respect her decision. Going to bed with someone is a big step.
Have patient.
Crystal | |
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| how long should I wait?
Posted: 7/17/2008 12:33:09 PM | | I think you should let things happen naturally. I hate that so many people have all these rules when it comes to relationships. Being caught in the moment with all the butterflies is the best part of a new relationship! | |
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| how long should I wait?
Posted: 7/17/2008 4:40:48 PM |
Ladies, we do appreciate y'all not being TOO easy, giving it up on the first or second date is BAD if you are looking for a relationship..if you give it up on the first two dates we figure you're just in need of a good bang/casual-occasional/fwb type stuff.
Attention ladies of POF...right there is a guy telling you straight out...sex on the first or 2nd date doesn't seem like you're looking for a relationship. So for all of the woman who keep asking "giving it up too soon" questions...I hope you're ready this. If you have to ask, you already know the answer...but bigshrek has confirmed it.
(hope they don't make you turn in your man card for giving that away..lol)
Who wants a relationship with a man like that in the first place? I would be glad to find out that he was the type to have a double standard. That it is fine for men to have sex on the first date, but not a woman(Seems to me that the man is also "giving it up on the first date also. " Most likely the one starting it. .  Better to have sex with someone like that on the first date, then you will know exactly where he is coming from and not waste any time on him. I truly hate people that play games. Sex should happen when it feels right, and if both of you are single, it should be fine if it is on the first date. Seems nothing ever changes. Men are meant to be able to live and enjoy their lives freely while women are meant to hold back. | |
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| how long should I wait?
Posted: 7/17/2008 4:48:00 PM |
You have to respect her decision. Going to bed with someone is a big step.
Have patient.
Crystal
I don't agree at all. I think what he should do is forget about her, and find a woman with a healthy sex drive that doesn't see sex as such a major decision but rather as something that is natural and good between two people.
I still say she is too much of a control freak. She wants to call the shots. He should be happy to keep see her, even though it must be very frustrating to be with someone you want to have sex, but they won't . At the same time you aren't meant to see anyone else, because you are trying to get something going with them. | |
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| how long should I wait?
Posted: 7/17/2008 4:50:44 PM | | Funny Girl...I could not have written my feelings any better than you about the topic. It is not about "giving something up or holding out for more". It is about being in the moment....the right moment for both of you. Only when both of you are on different escalators and going in different directions does enjoying intimacy with an other become problematic. | |
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| how long should I wait?
Posted: 7/17/2008 8:11:51 PM |
I would be glad to find out that he was the type to have a double standard.
LOL...I posted with my tongue slightly in my cheek...I definitely agree...when a man admits to thinking you're a wh*re cause you'll sleep with him...does that mean he's a manwh*re?
Sex should happen when it feels right, and if both of you are single, it should be fine if it is on the first date.
AMEN SISTER!!! The if you're both single is the linchpin of this thread...well one of them. He's not and apparently, or so it seems, has no intention of being single anytime soon. I guess if a guy can get a woman to do what he wants and be "separated for 2 yrs", he might feel he doesn't need to get divorced? | |
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| how long should I wait?
Posted: 7/17/2008 9:49:34 PM |
Helloooooooooo? Perhaps, Paul1966, she is wondering if you betrayed YOUR wife?!! I wont' presume to know your circumstances for still being married but to that lady, you are a big a** red flag. You're separated and all over her like a wet blanket after the 3rd date. She has a right to go slow...really. She does.
Sure, it's EASY to get all hot and bothered when one's making out but that doesn't mean you all HAVE to have sex does it? She's not scared out of her comfort zone...she doesn't wanna just jump in the sack with just anyone. Unfortunately right now it's you.
Step back, put away your pe**er and use the head on your shoulders. 3 dates does not mean you have to have sex. Although another poster did mention something about your specific views...and I think the term was "fcking like bunnies" or the like (which made me snort btw)...slow your roll.
If you truly believe that you don't want to wait, by all means, do the lady a favor and take hike. If you really like her beyond getting into her panties...then slow down, stay awhile and let her learn to trust you.
Oh yeah...and get a divorce while you're at it...she'll trust you a lot more then!!!
THANK YOU!!!! That is what I was wondering, too. Given her background, and the fact that you're not divorced, OP (or I assume since you didn't state divorce), she may have major concerns about getting too intimate too soon with someone who is still attached.
Also, she might have refused your massage because she didn't want to give you the signal to proceed to sex (come on.....many touchy feely acts lead to that, so all of the people saying "I didn't get sex outta his question" - wake up!).
If she really is that important, you will be able to wait FOR A WHILE. If it drags on for ages, and you are really becoming bummed out, move on....as she may not be ready for a long time. You have to decide what's good for you! | |
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| how long should I wait?
Posted: 7/17/2008 10:47:17 PM | | 3 dates - that must add up to all of 10 or so hours. yeah, it's just my idea of a a wonderful std waiting to happen. get your divorce first, ya sleazeball! | |
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| how long should I wait?
Posted: 7/17/2008 11:27:18 PM |
My question is how long should I wait, we clearly have the hots for each other, but she says she wants to call the shots, and gets scared when she goes out of her comfort zone? If you do indeed, both have the hots for each other.. then most likely you won't have to wait that long. Once she feels safe with you, I think it will just happen naturally and you won't have to ask for it with (not so) subtle enquiries like "would you like a massage" (prior to being sexually intimate with each other ~ asking to give her a massage is such a lame attempt at seduction) IMHO a massage should have only be offered if she's been complaining about back problems )
You state she's been "cuddly" and "flirty" shes giving you some clear signals that she's attracted to you so I say, just show a little patience. | |
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| how long should I wait?
Posted: 7/18/2008 1:18:37 AM | | It's only been 3 dates. You've probably spent less than 24 hours together all totalled. It could be that she wants to know you better before getting into bed with you. Waiting three years doesn't necessarily mean she doesn't like sex, maybe she is just selective about who she chooses to share the closest intimacy possible with. I have learned from experience that if someone doesn't want to spend time to get to know me before becoming intimate then it's not the best relationship for me....and I'm not frigid. | |
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| how long should I wait?
Posted: 7/18/2008 5:22:24 AM | | If she thinks it's too soon what she's really saying is that she doesn't trust you yet. If a woman is pressured into intimacy, it will only lead to tension and bad feelings. If you really like her you'll decide how long you think it's reasonable to wait. After that time is up, you can talk to her to see if you can work through the problems. Perhaps she is afraid once you've had sex you'll just dump her like yesterday's garbage. So start small, even if you give her that massage don't take it any further unless she takes the initiative to go to the next level. | |
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| how long should I wait?
Posted: 7/18/2008 7:09:05 AM |
If a woman is pressured into intimacy, it will only lead to tension and bad feelings. If you really like her you'll decide how long you think it's reasonable to wait.
I have never "pressured" a woman for sex. It wouldn't mean anything, if it were coerced.
On the other hand, if the attraction (chemistry) isn't immediate, or if she has "issues" with acting on the attraction, then we aren't a match.
It took me a long time in life to be able to look back and realize that every good relationship that I've had , including a 20 year marriage, were sexual on the first date. Not because it was "demanded" or even expected. It was just a naural response to chemistry.
If the chemistry isn't there, and isn't so overwhelming that both people "just need" to act on it, then it never will be. "Waiting" won't bring it "over time" through some friendship process. One doesn't develop desire by eating more dinners together, or by going to flea markets. Friendship might, and friendship can be a good part of life, but it's not the same as a "romantic relationship". | |
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| how long should I wait?
Posted: 7/18/2008 7:53:11 AM | msg 31
Helloooooooooo? Perhaps, Paul1966, she is wondering if you betrayed YOUR wife?!! I wont' presume to know your circumstances for still being married but to that lady, you are a big a** red flag. Okay, this I don't understand the need for.
"Perhaps she's wondering....."
Why assume the lady in question is wondering anything? You can guess all you want but why? Go with what it said in a post and don't add to it in a way that can be picked up by someone else as truth. If you really want to know more about the lady in question and why she is hesitating, ask Paul to clarify.
And just why would she be wondering that? If she so happend to do so, wouldn't it make more sense that she would not be involved with Paul at all?
Yes I know she was betrayed by her ex but that doesn't mean that she assumes all other men do it to their wifes. You are crediting this lady with possible attitudes that she might not have at all. Find out facts, don't guess.
And you say Paul is a red flag to her? Where are you getting that from? Do you know this particular lady in person? Have you spoken to her? Even if you hadn't what makes you say so? You don't know what's going on in her head.
If she indeed thought Paul is a red flag, why would she be in a realationship with him at all?
Some people have questioned his reasons for being separated and not divorced. Not all divorces are easily taken care of. People have lots of reasons for staying married for a longer time after a split. I know of couples that didn't divorce until one of them found another person they wanted to marry becuase she could reap the benefits of his insurance for example. That might not be morally right but that's beyond the point.
His reason for not being separated is not the issue here. The question was a completely different one. Obviously his ladyfriend is not concerned so why are so many of you? | |
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