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| Omar Khadr: The interrogation
Posted: 7/16/2008 5:31:02 PM | I dont know about you...but i had NO IMPULSE to go overseas, join a terrorist camp, throw a grenade and blind one man and kill another when i was 15.
The Khadr family is a stain on Canada. I say let the kid rot in jail. | |
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| Omar Khadr: The interrogation
Posted: 7/16/2008 9:47:49 PM |
In this country we pretend we support rights for all people and then we systematically deny them to innocent people.
Ok lets see here now.....we pretend huh? Which other country in the world do you think has a better criminal justice system? Or even better which country would you rather desire to live in as apperently the US isnt to your liking, with all the hate and all.
And Oh!! they are innocent?? Oh yeh I forgot, another bleeding heart on board, lets give everyone what we have, socialism at its finest, no one is responsible for their actions, their innocent! Because its the dads fault for being accosiated with OBL, Its the moms fault for following the religious teaching and having no say in what the dads thoughts were on how to raise the son.
Wait maybe its the US's fault for not being this perfect nation which doesnt ever do anything bad, maybe the US should just giove everything it has to the rest of the world! Yeah thats it, let just open the borders, hand out keys to the banks, make all the medical people heal others for free! Land of Milk and Honey, what a great place this would be!!
Thats the ticket we could be the Dr. Phil to the world and give out hugs and tell everyone its ok...
Lets kick the Jews outta Israel....lets hand over all our technology to China.....
Lets go back to horse n buggy and then the Arab nations can keep all the oil, becuase thats the only reason we like the middle east right? The Oil? I mean arent we getting just ship load after ship load from Iraq??
Sheesh!
Dog gone it! the kid isnt innocent.....hes a terrorist....hes a mine laying, gun toting, hate speaking human being. And if he gets ruffed up and doesnt get any sympothy from his interogators OH WELL.....stay in school boys and girls! | |
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| Omar Khadr: The interrogation
Posted: 7/16/2008 10:52:10 PM | Ok...I have been reading upon this....as well as reading the responses...this is my two cents here......
There are many victims of radical Islam. The victims of radical Islam is not always our American troops, victims can consist of the very people who they enlist into their cause. Victims can also be people who refuse to join them. Radical Islam preys upon children as well as the ignorant population of the Muslim communities. This kid was one of them.
This does not take away from the fact that this kid is now a terrorist and has perform crimes which are punishable. He deserves to be punished for his crime(s). People are screaming he was a minor when captured...according to most military laws, there is no law to address minors, military law is different from regular civilian law.
Who do I ultimately blame for this? I blame Muslims. Muslims as a whole are not standing up and speaking out against radical Islam. Yes..there are Muslims who are fighting with the United States against terrorism, but it's not enough. Not all Muslims are terrorists but one will not view the Muslim communities as a whole denouncing Radical Islam, they are either scared or don't give a damn, I haven't figured that one out yet.
I even sympathize with suicide bombers....they are so darn ignorant that they have fallen prey to Radical Islam believing if they kill themselves while killing other people, they are assured a place in heaven, within their own ignorance, they do not realize that suicide within the Islam religion is a sin. Does this not mean that if our troops view a suicide bomber that they should not shoot them and kill them? I believe they should, for obvious reasons. One will not view the educated portion of Radical Islam killing themselves in the name of their cause,,that position is reserved only for the uneducated and ignorant Muslims.
This kid captured deserves to be punished, but this should be a wakeup call to the Muslim community. They have failed this kid. No one stood up for this kid, yes...the mother protested...whoopie do!!!! A good mother would have died trying to keep her son from being a terrorist by any means possible. I know of many women who have protested the radical tribal laws which have been constructed by the sexist pigs of that faith. Women according to Islam even have the right to divorce their husbands, but the women are kept so suppressed within the Muslim communities, they are are not even literate enough to understand their rights. Do keep in mind, more times to none, the mothers are so ignorant within these communities that they actually rejoice upon the thought of their children becoming suicide bombers. It's obvious this mother of this child did NOT protest enough, she should have put a bullet in her husband's head for recruiting her baby, she did not, she failed her child.
Our nation nor Canada should be blamed for doing their jobs. He is a terrorist and needs to be treated as such. This kid is not a product of the US or George Bush or even Canada. He is a product of a community that cast him to the wolves and didn't give a damn about him, his own faith failed him as well as his own parents. In stating this, he deserves to be punished for his crimes and the Muslim community needs to stand up and start defending the youth of their faith, this is not the only child who was recruited and will not be the last. Muslims need to stop this or else we will be viewing more death's of our own people by these kids as well as the death's of these children. One can not blame a soldier or military member for shooting a child when they are strapped by bombs, etc...the Vietcong utilized similar tactics during Vietnam. I know of many Vietnam veteran who is still messed up in the head due to having killed children...the guilt kills them. They had no choice in my eyes.
Was he a kid when captured? Yes. Is he a victim of Radical Islam? Yes. Does he deserve to be punished for his crimes? Yes. | |
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| Omar Khadr: The interrogation
Posted: 7/17/2008 12:38:58 AM | ^^^ While some of the sentiments expressed in your post are laudable (not including your blanket statements about Moslems), your post doesn't really address the issue, which is not whether or not terrorists (even young ones) should be punished, it's whether or not we should be punishing them (with things like torture) before they are tried and found guilty, and whether or not, in the process, we should be violating our own most deeply held principles (like by not tampering with evidence, not replacing judges that don't do what the govt wants, etc).
Or maybe that's not the issue of this thread...but for me it is. Otherwise, I don't see any point in discussing the topic at all. | |
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| Omar Khadr: The interrogation
Posted: 7/17/2008 12:39:02 AM |
...the fact that this kid is now a terrorist and has perform crimes which are punishable.
Waa? Guilty 'till proven innocent? It's pretty clear you've made up your mind before a verdict has been handed down. Have you read any of the transcripts....it's a freaking kangaroo court!
Is he innocent until proven guilty or guilty until proven innocent?
Are all equal? Or are some more equal than others?
Do you really want to go down that road?
____________________
I blame Muslims. Muslims as a whole are not standing up and speaking out against radical Islam.
LOL....they do it all the time....it just doesn't get reported in Western media.
If a non Muslim speaks out against western hegemony, and the US in particular....they are generally branded as a bit of a loose cannon...nutbar...and the general response is...*yawn*...*ya...whatever*.... 
But if a Muslim were to utter the same words....well...holy fire and brimstone....the long knives are instantly unleashed. They are branded *radical* ... *hell bent*....*determined to kill all*....*RADICAL*
If a non western non Muslim expresses love for America, it is viewed as acceptance, and they are welcomed.
If a non western Muslim expresses love for America, it is viewed as suspicious....
Is he a victim of Radical Islam? Yes. Does he deserve to be punished for his crimes? Yes.
So....victims deserved to be punished.....? | |
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| Omar Khadr: The interrogation
Posted: 7/17/2008 12:50:51 AM |
...they are tried and found guilty...
Nothing like attempting to predetermine the outcome..... | |
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| Omar Khadr: The interrogation
Posted: 7/17/2008 1:01:35 AM | ^^^ You are quoting me I think, but obviously misunderstanding the point I was making entirely....which is especially remarkable if you have read my earlier posts in this thread.
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| Omar Khadr: The interrogation
Posted: 7/17/2008 1:05:36 AM | ^^^ While some of the sentiments expressed in your post are laudable, your post doesn't really address the issue, which is not whether or not terrorists (even young ones) should be punished, it's whether or not we should be punishing them (with things like torture) before they are tried and found guilty, and whether or not, in the process, we should be violating our own most deeply held principles (like by not tampering with evidence, not replacing judges that don't do what the govt wants, etc).
Maybe a lot of points have been missed.I have seen no evidence of torture in this case.What proof is there that this person was tortured.None.You assumed that there was torture because he said he was tortured.You have found the government guilty with no proof .you do the same thing you complain others have done.You assume that the judge was removed because someone says so did you see a secret memo that we have been privy too?
I have seen a bunch of posts on these forums that are filled with wild conspiracy theories and just plain lies. I have listened to all the Left-Wingers American and Canadian Citizens both claim that the government controlled media feeds us Neo-con approved rhetoric.Everybody with more than a 2nd grade education knows that ABC,CBS,and NBC and their subsidiaries are a bunch of Liberal BULLSH*TERS.Fox is controlled by the Right-Wing Reactionaries.The truth is somewhere in between.
I have been over there and you people don't have a clue.You sit at your desks and you type if did this or we did that they wouldn't hate us and we could get along and the world would be at peace.The terrorists would still be there because we aren't Muslim.Al-Qaeda and the Taliban want only one thing and that is world domination by Islam. | |
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| Omar Khadr: The interrogation
Posted: 7/17/2008 1:08:12 AM | a bit nomadic:
I do see where you are coming from and I do commend you on your stance
of humane treatment for all, I truly wish I were as compassionate
as you, however, I am not. One has to understand that military
tribunals are different than civilian courts. Military tribunals
are not held to the constitutional laws of our civilian courts,
therefore why things such as torture and extreme measures are
utilized and our nation as well as other nations get away with it.
I personally support torturing enemy combatants. This is actually
a WHOLE other topic and I do not want to derail this thread but
this "terrorist" deserves his punishment and I do not feel that
the US or Canada has treated him inhumanely especially considering
the charges against him as well as the evidence which placed him
there in the first place. With that being said, I do once again
admire your compassion but I'm not compassionate, I say torture them
until they scream like girls.
I also wanted to add that it is impossible for judges to be replaced in a military tribunal, largely due to the fact that military officers act as both judge and jury. After a hearing, guilt is determined by a vote of the commissioners. My apologies, but I do not understand the accusation of judges being being replaced considering military officers serve as judge and jury.
A commission will consist of three to seven members appointed by the secretary of defense or by a committee established by the secretary. All commission members will be officers in the U.S. armed forces. A presiding officer will be chosen for each commission and must be a military lawyer. The presiding officer will have the authority to admit or exclude evidence. The officer may also conduct the trial in closed session if this is necessary to protect classified information or to assure the safety of defendants, witnesses, or commission members.
Outdoor:
Waa? Guilty 'till proven innocent? It's pretty clear you've
made up your mind before a verdict has been handed down. Have you
read any of the transcripts....it's a freaking kangaroo court!
I'm sure it is indeed a kangaroo court, however, according to
the military tribunal which was instituted I do believe in 2002,
you are correct in stating that one is presumed innocent until
proven guilty even within the military tribunal charter, however,
in order to be brought into this particular tribunal, one must be
labeled a "terrorist" in the first place, hence why I am freely
utilizing the word "terrorist". Do keep in mind that according to
Article I, section 8 even within our own constitution it deems that
Congress has the power to constitute Tribunals INFERIOR to the
Supreme Court. People on this thread keep stating humane treatment.
Humane treatment is awarded only in under the Geneva Convention,
terrorists are NOT awarded protection in under the Geneva Convention
largely because they break the laws of the Geneva Convention
themselves therefore forfeiting any protection in under this
particular international law.
Do you really want to go down that road?
Sure...let's go down that road.
LOL....they do it all the time....it just doesn't get
reported in Western media.
I disagree with your analogy. Proof of your error in this
statement is history itself. If the Muslim communities as a whole
were speaking out against radical Islam, we would not even have
this thread topic to discuss. I do believe a minority of the
Muslim communities are speaking up and I encourage and support them
100% in doing so, however, many who are speaking up are getting
killed or receiving death threats and this enough to shut anyone
up, however, I feel the Muslim community owes their youth to
stand up and denounce Radical Islam and the only way to do this
is to overcome their fears. I personally would be more terrified
of my child becoming a terrorist as compared to dying in denouncing
such horrid acts.
But if a Muslim were to utter the same words....well...holy
fire and brimstone....the long knives are instantly unleashed.
They are branded *radical* ... *hell bent*....*determined to kill
all*....*RADICAL*
If a non western non Muslim expresses love for America, it is
viewed as acceptance, and they are welcomed.
If a non western Muslim expresses love for America, it is viewed
as suspicious....
Your statements are radical! These are only excuses for allowing
the Muslim community in your eyes to keep their mouths shut. You
are an enabler as compared to someone who should be encouraging
the Muslims to denounce Radical Islam. You throw the US in there
for good measure. THe US is not the reason the Muslims are not
performing this. As I stated earlier, they are not performing this
task because for one...they either do not give a damn or they are
scared.
So....victims deserved to be punished.....?
Good point. In this case, he deserves what he gets in prison
and if he is innocent, time will prevail for him but he obviously
did something(s) to land him there in the first place, we are not
discussing John Boy from the Walton's here, he is a terrorist
who is now facing punishment for his crime. I sympathize with
this kid but I do not sympathize with his actions he is accused of
performing. Who I sympathize with the most is the soldier who
he is accused of killing, I do believe on the sympathy meter, the
soldier and his family who he left behind will receive my vote for
sympathy. | |
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| Omar Khadr: The interrogation
Posted: 7/17/2008 1:13:33 AM |
Maybe a lot of points have been missed.I have seen no evidence of torture in this case.What proof is there that this person was tortured.None.You assumed that there was torture because he said he was tortured.
Since the judge who ordered that a record of his daily treatment be turned over to the defense has been romoved from his seat, all we can do is believe the one person who is talking. There has been no denial that I know of from the govt....just silence and secrecy. But since even our own government is no longer denying using torture on gitmo detainees....why shouldn't he be believed.
You assume that the judge was emoved because someone says so did you see a secret memo that we have been privy too?
The judge was replaced. Do you have a secret memo telling us that Judge Parrish is actually Judge Brownback? Has he had cosmetic surgery or something? If so, do tell.
I have been over there and you people don't have a clue.You sit at your desks and you type if did this or we did that they wouldn't hate us and we could get along and the world would be at peace.The terrorists would still be there because we aren't Muslim.Al-Qaeda and the Taliban want only one thing and that is world domination by Islam.
Off-topic hyperbole. | |
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| Omar Khadr: The interrogation
Posted: 7/17/2008 2:16:21 AM |
But since even our own government is no longer denying using torture on gitmo detainees....why shouldn't he be believed.
I dont recall reading any releases from the White House acknowledging the use of torture........but I may have missed it. Would you be so kind as to point it out to me?
And you ask why shouldnt he, the kid in question, be believed, and I ask why should he?
Just different POV on the matter. Who is correct? History will tell us later.
I believe what the previous poster might have been trying to state is that we dont know the reason for the removal of the first judge and that poster may be trying to point out that the reason could be something other than for his ruling and the subsequent reaction of the DOD to the ruling.....I dont know why he was removed...and I am not in a position to ASSUME it was because of the ruling he made. Perhaps none of should. | |
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| Omar Khadr: The interrogation
Posted: 7/17/2008 3:23:32 AM | Military commissions aren't designed to be fair. They're designed to produce convictions, and that's the underlying truth of it... Kangaroo court why yes they are so was the Nuremberg Trials & the Tokyo War Crimes Tribunal...
I don't see this young man as a terrorist. He was a soldier no more no less, despite his age, and should be treated as such. If some people want to label a person who throws a grenade or shoots a rifle in combat a terrorist, fine live in your imaginary world there Alice? Because how can one can cast a blind eye that the opposing side is doing exactly the same thing and you're not calling thier actions terrorism.... Just plain stupid! | |
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| Omar Khadr: The interrogation
Posted: 7/17/2008 3:39:50 AM | Today we are "friends " of Afghanistan and yet................
© REUTERS2008
KABUL (Reuters) - U.S.-led coalition troops have killed eight Afghan civilians in an air strike in the western province of Farah during a raid against suspected militants, the U.S. military said.
The acknowledgement came as reports of more civilian deaths caused by a fresh air raid by foreign forces emerged on Thursday from the neighbouring province of Herat.
The air strike on Tuesday was summoned after a coalition convoy came under sustained attack from machine gun and indirect fire from a number of houses adjacent to a road in the Bakwa district of Farah, the U.S. military said.
"The coalition convoy returned fire and called for close air support on the enemy positions. A house was hit; eight civilians were killed, two others injured," it said in a statement late on Wednesday.
"Coalition forces never intentionally target non-combatants, and deeply regret any occurrence such as this where civilians are killed and injured as a result of insurgent activity and actions," it said.
Afghan officials said nine people, all members of the same family were killed in Tuesday's bombing.
In Thursday's raid, at least four men were killed, a spokesman for the regional police command said. Witnesses said 17 people were also wounded and taken to hospital.
The issue of civilian casualties is highly sensitive one for the Western-backed government and undermines Afghan support for the presence of foreign forces who are fighting the Taliban-led insurgents in Afghanistan.
There has been a sharp rise in violence in Afghanistan this year, the bloodiest since U.S.-led and Afghan forces overthrew the hardline Taliban in the wake of the September 11, 2001 attacks.
The U.S. military says it is investigating reports by Afghan officials that around 60 civilians were killed in two separate air strikes by U.S.-led coalition forces this month in eastern Afghanistan.
More than 800 civilians have been killed since the start of 2007 in Afghanistan by foreign and Afghan forces, according to Afghan officials and the U.N.
The average income pa.. is approx $300 and thats 7 years after we became their friends. We put the boot in when they are at home.......................and we won't let them in if they flee .......
So when Omar Kadr was out there.............the situation was worse .He is a victim of US foriegn policy.A policy of hatred that fuels insurgency . Yet they see and digest the USA be the great " I Am " around other parts of the world.Pouring money hither and thither under the guise of combating poverty and holding no other nations accountable ....................but intent on erasing the M.E. down to the ground .
Personally I believe that you leave the job unfinished ........... at your peril ....... | |
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| Omar Khadr: The interrogation
Posted: 7/17/2008 8:33:08 AM | a bit nomadic:
I took your words completely out of context. I am sorry. I agree 100% with the stance you have taken on this issue.
...one is presumed innocent until
proven guilty even within the military tribunal charter, however,
in order to be brought into this particular tribunal, one must be
labeled a "terrorist" in the first place...
Once a person is labeled a terrorist, the presumption of innocence goes flying out the window. Afterall...there is no such thing as an "innocent terrorist" now is there?
A predetermined outcome, regardless of facts.
In this case, he deserves what he gets in prison
and if he is innocent, time will prevail for him
Including torture. I find it odd that you sympathize with this kid at all, considering the fact you are a torture sympathizer.
The crime he is accused of is killing.
What is hotly disputed is whether he threw the grenade.
It's pretty clear the plaintiffs will stop at almost nothing, regardless of facts, to ensure a guilty verdict. | |
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| Omar Khadr: The interrogation
Posted: 7/17/2008 8:36:57 AM |
So when Omar Kadr was out there.............the situation was worse .He is a victim of US foriegn policy.A policy of hatred that fuels insurgency . Yet they see and digest the USA be the great " I Am " around other parts of the world.Pouring money hither and thither under the guise of combating poverty and holding no other nations accountable ....................but intent on erasing the M.E. down to the ground .
(bya saying ME, Im sure you mean the "Middle East",....thanks for the input)
Exactly,......and thats putting it mildly,.....
Lets look at the situation through this Kids eyes,..and see why Omar Khadr ended up being a "Victim" and "Pawn" in this horriable mess,....amd how he ended up deciding to stay in Afganistan.
Just Type,......."US Bombing Afgaistan",....into your Search Engine
and cringe when you find the horrors that abound,
If "YOU" really want to try and understand "WHY" ,... People,
or young 15 year old boys ....
want to kill American and UK Soliders,
you need look no further....
( I , myself, considering Im not a member of Islam,..would want to get the heck as far away from there as I could, as fast as I could,..but remember,....this Kid, is a member of that "Faith", and is seeing it being "Attacked|",..
and his other members of his Faith being Bombed, and killed, indiscriminetly.)
***********************************************************************************
Please,...dont misunderstand my reasoning as to why I feel this kid ended up in Gitmo,
Im not trying to put down his Faith, and Im not trying to discredit our Countrys in their efforts to stop/reduce Terrorism,.....Im just wanting YOU,..to try your best,..to look at this situation, through the eyes of this KID, at that point and time in his life,...and try to understand why he ended up in the position he's in,..and ask your self,..if YOU were a Young Man,..and saw these things happening to people around you, that believes in the same Faith,.....What would YOU do ??
A Dossier on Civilian Victims of United States Aerial Bombing of Afganistan
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/civiDeaths.html
"They're bombing anything that moves. It's not true that they bomb civilians by accident. They're targeting the innocent people instead of Osama bin Laden."
**************************************************************
"What causes the documented high level of civilian casualties -- 3,767 [thru December 6, 2001] civilian deaths in eight and a half weeks -- in the U.S. air war upon Afghanistan? The explanation is the apparent willingness of U.S. military strategists to fire missiles into and drop bombs upon, heavily populated areas of Afghanistan."
*****************************************************************************************************
When U.S. warplanes strafed [with AC-130 gunships] the farming village of Chowkar-Karez, 25 miles north of Kandahar on October 22-23rd,killing at least 93 civilians,
a Pentagon official said,
"the people there are dead because we wanted them dead."
The reason? They sympathized with the Taliban[1] .
When asked about the Chowkar incident, Rumsfeld replied,
"I cannot deal with that particular village."
***********************************************************
A U.S. officer aboard the US aircraft carrier, Carl Vinson, described the use of 2,000 lb cluster bombs dropped by B-52 bombers: "A 2,000 lb. bomb, no matter where you drop it, is a significant emotional event for anyone within a square mile."
****************************************************************
"When people decry civilian deaths caused by the U.S. government, they're aiding propaganda efforts.
In sharp contrast, when civilian deaths are caused by bombers who hate America, the perpetrators are evil and those deaths are tragedies.
When they put bombs in cars and kill people, they're uncivilized killers.
When we put bombs on missiles and kill people, we're upholding civilized values.
When they kill, they're terrorists.
When we kill, we're striking against terror."
***************************************************************
Feriba, a young Afghan girl, refugee in Pakistan[5]:
"I and all my classmates are very sad because of the situation in our homeland. When our teacher said in the class that many people have been killed in Afghanistan, I and my all classmates started weeping because everyone has relatives there. I expect America not to kill the poor Afghans. They are hungry and poor."
********************************************************
On Monday, October 29th, citing Reuters, The Times of India reported from Kabul,
"a US bomb flattened a flimsy mud-brick home in Kabul on Sunday blowing apart seven children as they ate breakfast with their father. The blast shattered a neighbour's house killing another two children . . . the houses were in a residential area called Qalaye Khatir near a hill where the hard-line Taliban militia had placed an anti-aircraft gun."
********************************************
". . . although estimates are still largely guesses, some experts believe that more than 1,000 Taliban and opposition troops have probably died in the fighting, along with at least dozens of civilians."[24]
********************************************************************
Dozens? Hundreds? Thousands, as we shall document
It is simply unacceptable for civilians to be slaughtered as a side-effect of an intentional strike against a specified target. There is no difference between the attacks upon the WTC whose primary goal was the destruction of a symbol, and the U.S-U.K revenge coalition bombing of military targets located in populated urban areas. Both are criminal. Slaughter is slaughter. Killing civilians even if unintentional is criminal.
*************************************************************************
We Bomb in Afghanistan
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/1104-04.htm
The United States claims the bombing is necessary to stop terrorism. But the Afghan people have never been accused of terrorism.Carpet bombing, cluster bombs, one-thousand pound bombs that hit houses, health clinics, food warehouses and other civilian targets. The Afghan people, who have not been implicated in any terrorist crime, are the ones who are hurting.
*************************************************************************
US Campaign Against Afghanistan Not
Self-Defense Under International Law
http://www.counterpunch.org/foley1.html
Theres more,....of course theres always more,....if you want to read, and want to try and understand why kids like Oman Khadr decide to pick up and gun and strike out against their opressors,..its all available online,.....
Im NOT trying to say Omar Khadr is Guilty, or Innocent,........I just want YOU Posters
to try to look at it through his eyes,...and remember that he probably was helped into making his decision, not only by what he saw, but also by the others around him, that encouraged him to do so (albit Brainwashing)
I have tried to look at this situation through Omars eyes,..and that he has been incarcerated at Gitmo for 6 years for his deeds,..and I condem his actions,....yet I sypathize with his desire to do something/anything, to stop the what he feels is the wrongs being done against what he sees as his Mother Country, and his Faith.
I believe that after 6 years of detaining him at Gitmo, the kid should of been Charged, Tried, and given his Day in Court,......but yesterday, I read that the Charges against him have been thrown out.....anymore news about that ? | |
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| Omar Khadr: The interrogation
Posted: 7/17/2008 9:54:32 AM | Off-topic hyperbole.
It's called eye witness testimony I have witnessed and heard the Muslim clerics and my statements are as credible as any you have sited in any of your posts.As a matter of fact,you have only sited hearsay. | |
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| Omar Khadr: The interrogation
Posted: 7/17/2008 9:59:19 AM | I don't see this young man as a terrorist. He was a soldier
no more no less, despite his age, and should be treated as such.
If some people want to label a person who throws a grenade or
shoots a rifle in combat a terrorist, fine live in your imaginary
world there Alice? Because how can one can cast a blind eye that
the opposing side is doing exactly the same thing and you're not
calling thier actions terrorism.... Just plain stupid!
Was he not recruited into a terrorist organization? Or the
military? A terrorist organization! Terrorists are labeled
terrorists due to the crimes the perform while in disguise and the
havoc they reap on civilians as well as opposing forces. He is
NOT a soldier, he did not perform his alleged crimes while in a
uniform,he does NOT have a chain of command.
Throwing a grenade or shooting a rifle is indeed something that
soldiers perform, however, beheading innocent civilians or
soldiers then dragging their bodies with vehicles and dumping the
bodies in the desert to attract flies is another story. These
acts alone are against the Geneva Convention therefore why it
totally makes me laugh when people try to state that someone who
belongs to a terrorist organization must be shown "humane
treatment".
Once a person is labeled a terrorist, the presumption of
innocence goes flying out the window. Afterall...there is no such
thing as an "innocent terrorist" now is there?
As a matter of fact, no there is not...do you know of any? I didn't
think so.
A predetermined outcome, regardless of facts.
Same as your predetermined opinion? :) Actually the military
tribunals ARE fair, but let's face facts here, within military
tribunals our government does NOT allow for the constitution as
a whole to be utilized as a tool to evade justice unlike our
"CRIMINAL" justice system within our country..and do note the CRIMINAL
JUSTICE system.
Including torture. I find it odd that you sympathize with
this kid at all, considering the fact you are a torture
sympathizer.
Of course I sympathize, I'm a mother of a beautiful son. To not
sympathize with this kid would be heartless however, as I stated
before, even with the failure of his parents as well as his faith
and community in protecting this kid, I do not sympathize with his
actions in which he is accused of performing.
I find it laughable that everyone blames the US for terrorism
no matter what the terrorists perform. What a load of crap and
utter propaganda hogwash.
I believe that after 6 years of detaining him at Gitmo, the kid should of been Charged, Tried, and given his Day in Court,..
I agree with this statement. | |
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| Omar Khadr: The interrogation
Posted: 7/17/2008 10:26:48 AM |
Terrorists are labeled
terrorists due to the crimes the perform while in disguise and the
havoc they reap on civilians as well as opposing forces.
Blackwater.
Same as your predetermined opinion? :)
Where have I stated an opinion on his guilt or innocence? | |
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| Omar Khadr: The interrogation
Posted: 7/17/2008 10:29:19 AM | Blackwater.
Blackwater is not and was not terrorists. They wore uniforms and were contractors for an organization which did indeed have a chain of command. Terrorists do not have this structure, hence why they are labeled terrorists. Was blackwater guilty of targeting innocent civilians? Yes, they were,,but civilian contractors are held liable to the UCMJ of our DOD therefore why even though they performed the atrocities which they performed, they were not charged however, they were forced to change their strategies in dealing with innocent civilians. They can not be labeled terrorists,,,,they are held accountable for their crimes through the UCMJ which is a structured set of rules and regulations along with a chain of command to follow.
For the record..I'm against this organization even being within "theater". I would have liked to have viewed some murder charges brought up against this organization.
Any more poor examples?
Where have I stated an opinion on his guilt or innocence?
I was referencing your predetermined opinion of the US and our forces. It seems YOU are allowed your predetermined opinions however no one else is, free speech...remember? | |
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| Omar Khadr: The interrogation
Posted: 7/17/2008 11:21:36 AM | The point I want to make to those who keep forgetting is this: this boy was rounded up during our sweeps in Afghanistan while we were at war. Unlike our military, which is mechanism by which we fight wars, Afghanistan is a feudal society with tribal war lords and any male is eligible to fight. This boy was fighting a war in his country, waged by the U.S. (and our "allies" - the coalition of the willing - ahem- the bribed) against his people. Of course he fought, and maybe even threw grenades. IT WAS A WAR, PEOPLE. This doesn't mean the boy loses his rights to a fair trial or that he should be indefinitely held without Habeas Corpus as an "enemy combatant". Even if he killed an American - IT WAS A WAR. Should our soldiers be treated by the same standards then? Of course you don't believe they should. Why should our so-named "enemy". Most of the Afghanis were fighting to protect themselves and their country from either other Afghanis (as some didn't support Al Qaida) or the coalition forces.
This boy wasn't guilty of planning terrorist attacks. I'd dare say, if someone invaded my country I'd fight in any way possible as I'd feel it was my responsibility to defend my nation from an aggressor. Do some of you believe I'd be wrong or "bad" for doing that? What if I threw grenades at the opposition who had invaded my country? Would that make me a terrorist or a patriot? People need to discuss this issue in the true context, as many of you are trying to do (thanks again, a bit nomadic). | |
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| Omar Khadr: The interrogation
Posted: 7/17/2008 11:39:58 AM | holdfast..No 14 yr old "chooses" to join a terrorist organization..Adults had a bigger role in that..You dont know the details of what really happened here so quit being an armchair judge here sentencing children to a life of hell you can only dream about
Sangha...Your interesting point proves the war mongers and flag wavers here often have a double standard about fighting...Its called a "terrorist" if he defends his own country against us in the USA...Its a "patriot" when its us in the USA defending our country against them....What in the heck do people expect them to do ??...Sit passively and allow their country to be taken over while we are allowed to defend ourselves here?...I dont think so!....WE wouldnt do it so why should we expect that of THEM?...DUH, someone forgot the Golden Rule they should have learned in kindergarden :
"Do unto others as you would have them do onto you" | |
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| Omar Khadr: The interrogation
Posted: 7/17/2008 11:48:19 AM | Green Sangha, you've hit on one of the huge problems that I was thinking of as I read the previous few posts, which is the power of discourse....more specifically, of words, labels, etc. Our government has decided that certain words are defined in certain ways.....thus, we can use those words to describe people, and also to define the way we're "allowed" to treat them. We've decided that being associated with Al-Qaeda and/or Osama bin Laden makes someone a terrorist, for example, whether that person is fighting an invasion of Afghanistan, an invasion of Iraq, or flying planes into the World Trade Center. We see no difference, because WE'VE decided that X=Y....so it means it. We've then gone on to decide that "terrorists" (those we've identified as such) aren't human beings....and so they aren't to be treated as human beings. Easy peasy....conscience clean. Our Labels (given to us by our government) do the work of thinking for us.
But you know, I was also thinking about this because of this added problematic label "unlawful combatant," which is closely related (at least in our usage) to the label "terrorist." It seems to me that these two words are being used interchangeably here (in this thread), despite the fact that one (I think) is a legal category, and one isn't. Nevertheless, since we do use the terms interchangeably--or, at least, treat "terrorist" (or is it "turrrrist") as one TYPE of "unlawful combatant," I'd like to suggest that since we HAVE declared "war" on "turrism," then "turrists" should be considered legitimate combatants in that war..... How can you declare war on someone and then label the ones you have declared war on as "unlawful" combatants if they fight the war against you?? We went after Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. Was Al-Qaeda simply supposed to sit quietly waiting for us? And for that matter, how is it that we consider people fighting for the Taliban "unlawful combatants"? The Taliban was the government of Afghanistan....they weren't supposed to fight an invasion of their country? No of course not....because we labelled them "terrorists" and so those who did fight were "unlawful combatants." We've said so, we've labeled them that way....so that's what they are!! It doesn't matter what THEY think they are or thought they were....WE HAVE THE POWER OF THE LABEL!!!!
This is all very convenient to me. We label it, define it, and then we can do with it what we please. The power of words. Problem is, labelling something before you torture it, doesn't make torturing it a moral act. It's JUST a word--the word we give something has absolutely no effect on its actual nature. We might call it a "terrorist," but it's still a human being. We can call a cat a dog...but does that change the nature of the cat itself? The only human beings whose REAL nature is affected by the labels we place on others for the PURPOSE of rationalizing and justifying our own immoral behavior is US. | |
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| Omar Khadr: The interrogation
Posted: 7/17/2008 12:14:17 PM |
fighting a war in his country ...
If Afghanistan is his country, then it's understandable that Canada not be involved.
... waged by the U.S.
Many people in Afghanistan were dragged into the war. Omar Khadr, however, was a willing participant. As a member of Al-Qaeda, the organization whose actions precipitated the invasion of Afghanistan, you could even say that he was an instigator, or at least that he supported the people who provoked the war.
a terrorist or a patriot
That depends on who writes the history books, but usually the winners decide. Still, if you end up on the losing side, you can never say that you didn't know what you were getting into. | |
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| Omar Khadr: The interrogation
Posted: 7/17/2008 12:56:27 PM |
Blackwater is not and was not terrorists. They wore uniforms and were contractors for an organization which did indeed have a chain of command. Terrorists do not have this structure, hence why they are labeled terrorists.
I'm pretty sure the organized terror cells do have a chain of command. If not, if they were to implement one would they no longer be considered terrorists in your eyes? | |
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| Omar Khadr: The interrogation
Posted: 7/17/2008 1:58:19 PM |
IT WAS A WAR, PEOPLE. This doesn't mean the boy loses his rights to a fair trial or that he should be indefinitely held without Habeas Corpus as an "enemy combatant". Even if he killed an American - IT WAS A WAR. Should our soldiers be treated by the same standards then? Of course you don't believe they should. Why should our so-named "enemy". Most of the Afghanis were fighting to protect themselves and their country from either other Afghanis (as some didn't support Al Qaida) or the coalition forces.
This boy wasn't guilty of planning terrorist attacks. I'd dare say, if someone invaded my country I'd fight in any way possible as I'd feel it was my responsibility to defend my nation from an aggressor.
The KID was not a native of Afghanistan, he was Pakistani. It wasn't his nation.
If Canada invaded the U.S. and a Mexican national was killing Canadians, would you call him a Patriot or a Terrorist?
I'm pretty sure the organized terror cells do have a chain of command. If not, if they were to implement one would they no longer be considered terrorists in your eyes?
You just said it. "Terror Cells".
By definition a Terror Cell is absent of a chain of command. They have to be able to act independently. That is why they use Cells. So if one goes down, it will not affect the other Cells. Hence the term "Cells"
What people keep forgetting on this board is that he was on VIDEO planting landmines, and laughing about it.
I wonder how many of the land mines he planted, killed Canadians and/or Americans.
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