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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/19/2008 7:25:32 PM | I would like to say that you handled it very well. It does say something about your charecter as a person that she was able to tell you anything. Most of the time if you are not sure about the holding or a hug, you can tell from her body language, and as was stated by others, you can always ask if it is okay for you to reach out to her.
Now as to the other part of your question, I can only speak from personal experiance on it, but what happened to me when I was a child did and still does affect how I react and behave in any kind of intimate realtionship. In my case I remembered a lot of things, but I also had supressed memories. Needless to say, my ex husband went through hell with me because as we bacame more intimate, I started to have flashbacks, and to even relive some of my memories.
The only advice that I can give to any man who experiences with the lady he is with is... be understanding, be patient, and be gentle and you will be able to work through anything. | |
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/19/2008 7:27:27 PM | | ^^^^^ Excellent answer. It's important to remember it isn't a result of anything you did or didn't do and that you can't fix it. All you can do is be a friend while she works through it. If she's willing to work through it, you can stand by her if that works for you. If she's not willing to work through it, then you can only be a friend. | |
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/19/2008 8:14:20 PM |
One is an injured soul the others were strong survivors who shared the information as part of who they are.
This is a really important fact that I hope doesn't get overlooked.
While I doubt you would do this OP, I have to say to anyone reading who is in a relationship with a survivor... If a survivor trusts you enough to share with you that bit of information (maybe it explains phobia's) please do not change how you treat them. Yes, you should make sure it's acceptable to touch them (at that moment) - but you should not change how you treat them. If you loved them before, don't turn away. I cannot stress enough how damaging turning away can be. There is nothing worse than baring your soul and telling a deep, dark secret only to be left shattered by someone who is incapable of handling the information.
I know many women who have been raped, sexually assaulted, whatever you want to call it. It ranges from childhood molestation to rape. In hearing their stories one thing is common, they don't go to police nor do they report it to authorities because they don't want to be seen as that "raped" or "molested" woman. We may never know the true percentage of survivors or victims, but based on my circle of friends it is pretty darned high. | |
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/19/2008 8:25:10 PM | | Whilst I agree that socially rape and sexual assault are seen as not the same, I think that they should be and here's why, they both are meant to control and have power over the victim by way of having one's way with said victim, whether that victim be man or woman...No sin is worse or better than any other sin, it still is a sin. I have been raped, and I have been sexually assaulted and have had unwelcomed sexual advances at work and school and ALL of them affected me in some way or another, ALL of them made me feel violated and ALL of them hurt my heart and made me wary of the opposite sex. I was simply stating that it is a fact that 50% of women have been assaulted before the age of 18, I didn't make this up in my mind...I wouldn't say 50% of women have been raped because I don't know those stats...that's why I also said in my post that the OP was also talking about women that he has been in contact with who have been assaulted, not just those who have been raped...I wasn't lumping anything in with rape, I just think that anything that a man or woman forces onto another person that is sexual in nature is wrong...dead wrong, and I am sorry renaissance man but if I have a co-worker who continuously makes rude or inappropriate jokes or makes advances at me that are unwelcomed and I have asked said man to stop, I don't think I need to get over myself, I think he needs a lesson in how to treat women in the workplace appropriately. telling a women to get over herself after having to deal with this over and over again is extremely disgusting...I really hope you didn't mean that | |
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/19/2008 8:29:45 PM |
I have to say to anyone reading who is in a relationship with a survivor... If a survivor trusts you enough to share with you that bit of information (maybe it explains phobia's) please do not change how you treat them. Yes, you should make sure it's acceptable to touch them (at that moment) - but you should not change how you treat them. If you loved them before, don't turn away. I cannot stress enough how damaging turning away can be. There is nothing worse than baring your soul and telling a deep, dark secret only to be left shattered by someone who is incapable of handling the information
First of all, many survivors force themselves to share their previous trauma, as a therepeutic way of having power over the event, rather than allowing it to have power over them. So, revealing it early in a relationship could be an indication of emotional health.
Secondly, we are assuming that she is, in some way or another, dysfunctional now, or struggling with the issue. Perhaps she has largely overcome the first, and is now capable of a relationship?
The thing that has me confused is this, though. This is early on in a budding relationship, not something that "came out" in an already formed, serious relationship. It seems to me that, unless one is co-dependant, or otherwise has "issues" with "needing to be needed", if she can't function in a relationship, why would he "hang in there" and be patient? It's fine to be a friend, but to voluntarily pursue a relationship with her, would be foolish, if she isn't able to function in one. I'm not assuming that to be the case, but if it were, the best "strategy" would be to transition this to "just friends", and find someone who can function in a romantic relationship, if the OP is really looking for an intimate relationship. | |
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/19/2008 8:46:23 PM | | Intimacy is more than the physical it is mental, emotional and spiritual. The OP asked LADIES how would you like men to handle this, not asking men, how would YOU handle this. Point is I have had some bad apples try to hurt me and some have, when you are getting to know someone, you talk to them, maybe some open up more than others and some do it before others would, no one is right nor wrong, you just do when you feel the time is right. Even those women who have been raped or assaulted deserve true love and affection, renaissance man, so to put every women to the friend zone b/c she has been raped, is a little unfair don't you think? The only time i would say to not pursue is if she yes has unresolved issues that continue to affect her ability to function properly in a relationship...Therapy is not something that should be stigmatized, anyone who has gone through hardship should go to talk to someone before getting into a relationship, because its not that a partner doesn't want to be there for you but you shouldn't be putting that person in a position to be your therapist. I can see what your getting at ren man, we shouldn't look to others in a romantic relationship to heal us...we should do that ourselves so that we can offer our true healed selves to one another...bitter, angry and hurt people I tend to run away from...OP you are doing it right by being supportive just remember to errect boundries as well....peace to all | |
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/19/2008 9:07:51 PM | in response to the poster on page 1 who made comments about sexual assault statistics being exaggerated...
i think that the discrepancy has more to do with perception and the definition of rape. some people picture physical violence, bruises, and a stranger committing the act. but most often it involves physical restraint, coercion, intoxication, drugs, and is committed by someone the woman knows...which often causes confusion and guilt on her part, and accounts for why many women who have been assaulted are hesitant to define it as rape, even though that's what it is. date rape or rape by a spouse is still rape, but rarely reported. the reactions and skepticism expressed by posters in this thread and other threads on the topic only reinforces that fear of the victim being judged.
i've been sexually assaulted twice. both times it was during a date, one involved being overpowered by a stronger partner (but not beaten or otherwise hurt) and the other involved being drugged without my knowledge. i said "no" repeatedly in the first situation, and in the 2nd i was unable to say "no" because i wasn't coherent or in full control of myself.
i don't discuss it often, but i don't hide it either. when i do bring it up to a man i'm dating or to a male friend...i don't expect them to fix it, nor do i cry or take on a victim mentality. truthfully, i count myself lucky that there wasn't physical violence involved in either situation, and know it could've been much worse for me. i simply see these experiences as part of my past and i've come to terms with what happened. i can't change the past, i can only look forward to the future with optimism.
OP, you handled yourself well. i can only hope that these women find ways to come to terms with their past, because as long as they continue to look backwards with shame or guilt they are continuing to be victimized by their own psyche and inner fears. | |
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/19/2008 9:16:52 PM | Intell gurl
You criticized my posts, by writing:
Even those women who have been raped or assaulted deserve true love and affection, renaissance man, so to put every women to the friend zone b/c she has been raped, is a little unfair don't you think? The only time i would say to not pursue is if she yes has unresolved issues that continue to affect her ability to function properly in a relationship...
My post #50 said:
if a woman has unresolved issues that interfere with a functional relationship, accept that you didn't cause the issues. and therefore, can't fix them. If it makes her unable to function satisfactorily sexually, gently and sensitively move to a 'friend role' and find someone else as a romantic interest.
I would never avoid a woman, for having been a rape victim. I shared with this thread, that long ago, when a grad student, I was a victim of male on male rape. I will not, however, pursue a relationship with someone who has unresolved issues that make her dysfunctional sexually.
For me, if sexuality is a source of mutual joy, eagerly desired and shared, all that's possible is friendship. So, it's not whether a woman is a rape victim that determines whether I would be interested in a relationship. It's whether she is able to function normally. | |
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/19/2008 9:22:25 PM |
i think that the discrepancy has more to do with perception and the definition of rape. some people picture physical violence, bruises, and a stranger committing the act. but most often it involves physical restraint, coercion, intoxication, drugs, and is committed by someone the woman knows...
"Drunk sex", "buyer's remorse" the day after, and verbal "coercion" is NOT violent rape. To lump it in with real rape, is to diminish the emotional impact of rape.
Women can regret the choices they make, but the issues are NOT the same, as they are, when they are forcibly violated. "No" means "no", but if she's not saying no, then it's not rape. It might be a mistake, and the guy might be a jerk, if he "talks her into it", but it is NOT the same as a forcible felony. | |
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/19/2008 9:39:38 PM |
So, revealing it early in a relationship could be an indication of emotional health.
Secondly, we are assuming that she is, in some way or another, dysfunctional now, or struggling with the issue. Perhaps she has largely overcome the first, and is now capable of a relationship?
I try to never assume anything. I don't assume that the revelations are early in the relationship any more than I assume it's after a good bit of time. I know that some survivors are fully capable of relationships and have healthy ones. Just as there are people out there that only want to save the object of their affection. | |
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/19/2008 9:40:28 PM | Getting back to the original post....I think all you need to do is be a good listener. Also, ask if there's anything she needs from you.
Yes , sexual assault is extremely high...for children it can be inappropriate touches. It does not have to be rape for children or adults. | |
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/19/2008 9:44:14 PM | Intercourse without consent is rape.
If drugged, drunk or threatened, there IS NO CONSENT.
ANY man that has sex with a woman that connot give consent is asking for trouble.
There IS no implied consent.
If she is passed out, DON'T mess with her.
If a woman says "no", take her at her word. What a woman sees as coercion or threats, the man might see as "talking her into". DON'T do it.
"real rape" is the perception of person assaulted. Just because the assault doesn't fit YOUR definition, never tell someone their experience is not as bad as yours. | |
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/19/2008 9:48:18 PM | Renaissance Man:
when i refer to coercion...i mean a woman being restrained or intimidated into doing something she does not want, i am NOT referring to the girl who reluctantly gives in simply because a guy is persistent. a woman does not need to be beaten to feel forced or fearful.
when i refer to intoxication...i mean a woman who is incapacitated or unconscious and taken advantage of by someone when she is in no condition to give consent.
when i refer to drugs...i refer to date rape drugs such as GHB, rohypnol, and ketamine.
you took everything i said competely out of context. had you read my post fully and thoughtfully, along with taking my own experiences into account, you would've had the good sense not to post the comments that you did. my post was never about "buyer's remorse" or "morning after regrets".
i must however thank you for illustrating my point so clearly. you demonstrated exactly what i was saying about date rape being dismissed as not being "real rape". do not diminish the emotional impact of any sexual assault...because whether or not there are bruises or broken bones, the moment a woman says "no" it is rape.
i also want to say thank you to the OP for his post above. you are obviously a man with the sense and sensitivity to truly understand that rape comes in many forms. some men and women, just don't seem to get it...and therein lies the cruelest part of the whole experience -- judgment, dismissal, and blame from others being added to the emotional impact and physical violation of the experience itself. | |
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/19/2008 9:58:51 PM | OP, you do fine, no worries. You're right, too, I'm no victim. I'm a survivor. Actually, I do more than merely survive.
"I notice on threads like this that people often erroneously equate the number of women who have been raped with the number of men who are rapists. That's simply not reasonable. A rapist who is not caught is likely to repeat multiple times until they are caught. It's the nature of a predator. One rapist is likely responsible for a great number of victims. My one regret in life is that I didn't report the man who raped me because I'm sure he also raped many others both before and after me."
ktyhg: You are so right. The first man to ever assault me ( when I was 4) was found guilty of 31 counts about 2 years ago. He received 31 years, a year for each victim. It was the max the judge could give. That was for the victims they found. I never had my day in court. They only brought charges for the last 10 or 15 years of his life. I am now nearly 37, so over the course of 33 years I think it's safe to guess he assaulted( that includes raped) 60 or 70 girls and women. Now, that's just since I knew him. How many before that did he hurt? Taking people like this into account, the stats seem a little reasonable.
Don't feel bad about not reporting it, kthyg. You are not responsible for his actions. Only he is. I know exactly what you mean, though. I didn't report any of the times I've been assaulted. Fear, shame, and how the courts are. | |
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/19/2008 10:01:52 PM |
the moment a woman says "no" it is rape
Agreed.
If the statistics used by the interest groups only included situations of physical force, date rape drugs, etc, I'd have no argument.
However, when you look at the studies, from which the 1 in 3 is derived, it includes such things as 2 people meeting in a bar, both are drunk, and they have sex. Men who "coerce", as in the high school boy, who says, "if you really loved me, you would have sex with me". They also include a man touching a woman's breast, without asking, even if he stops, if she says "no". They include "unwanted suggestions" that some men make, like the drunken lout that says to a woman walking into a bar "hey, baby, how about a **** ***?" They also include two 16 year olds consensually having sex, because they are "underage".
The OP asked how it should be handled, and if the OP is comfortable with validating that unwise decisions are "someone else's fault", and that a woman who has sex, and later regrets it, isn't responsible for her poor judgement ( as in choosing to get drunk and meet men in bars), fine.
I reserve my empathy for those women, and men, who are forcibly raped. | |
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/19/2008 10:03:07 PM | OP I am a little confused.Do these woman you date volunteer this infro as way of introducing themselves or is this after they get to know you and develop a bond of trust.
Because there are things in my past that are never going to leave me .. I admire the man that can keep that kind of a secret without using later to get back at the female ( yeah some do)
Trusting souls are hard to come by
No means no guys ...no means no in my neck of the woods | |
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/19/2008 10:04:17 PM | the stats are more like one out of every six women will be raped in their lifetime. One rape every 2 minutes in the USA. 60% do not report it and 73% knew their assailant. only 6% of the rapists ever serve time. Check with Google.
Support her for what she has gone through. Admiration for getting through it and remaining intact. | |
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/19/2008 11:11:39 PM | OP... I too have been honored with the trust of many female friends, SOs, and lovers who at some point shared that tragic experience with me and I can fairly say it's been at least 2 or 3 out of five. Why they shared was beyond me but I felt blessed to know enough about it that I could empathize, listen, care and not want to fix them, but just be their friend or if in an intimate relationship continue behaving with respect and consideration. It did cause me to be more sensitive but we talked things thru and I learned how to let them be themselves and heal and grow. I appreciate the "hug" suggestion made as I am naturally a hugger when I meet people, men and woman, but thankfully it's never caused a problem.
I grew up in a neighborhood who's religious culture was strong. Many young girls were "assaulted, molested, incested, man-handled and raped" by fathers, uncles, brothers, friends of brothers, friends of fathers and uncles and strangers. It was the norm for some girls to be raped by multiple boys and men in a night, and then to have it happen more then once for years. These girls NEVER reported it, but many of us knew what had happened. In the military, it was a common experience and to report it meant nothing would come of it but ostracizing the woman, so many never reported it. In college it occured often enough at parties and again it wasn't reported. There are neighhorhoods where young man victimize older women living alone and threaten them with harm or death if they report it, these women have no means to move away or anyone to turn to for protection and they will not report it. Just in the last few years I have met new friends who have confided in me of such experiences, they are older and though they are "survivors" I can still see the pain in their eyes or hear it in their words.
OP, thank you for bringing this topic up, and for reminding me that "agape" love can help bring healing. And to you wonderful and courageous women, and man, who've grown past survival and learned to live again... thank you for sharing and reminding us and keeping the focus where it belongs... God bless! 
as for statistics... Think Ted Bundy, the Green River killer and the many others who silenced their victims. I wonder if those poor women would give a damn about your statistical arguements... 
and the pathetic intellectualizing of the tragedy... please folks stop it! You only diminish your own intellect and wind up making this an arguement about your "self" and your supposed intelligect...
reminds me of that saying, and I paraphrase... wouldn't you rather have people think you are stupid, then write down your ridiculous opinions and prove them right!  | |
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/19/2008 11:28:37 PM |
But one woman told me on the FIRST meeting/date. Her situation was her own father raped her at 16. Not ONLY was it her first time, but she had a child she gave up for adoption.
THAT came out on a first date? Holy! That's somebody who really NEEDS to talk about it. I can't imagine the amount of pain that would make me want to blurt that to a stranger I was just meeting for the first time. How awful for her! Now stepping back in the thread for a moment:
I consider myself to be a very kind, sensitive and emotional guy.
You obviously are.. I haven't heard a man ask this question before... It shows you care and I think you should take a bow... 
I only know of five former girlfriends who had been assaulted. But the statistics are getting higher and higher. One stat I saw says one woman in three has been assaulted.
That's only the reported stats... I think the number is much higher...
So, my question is how would you LIKE us to handle this information? I for one know it would (in most cases) take a LOT of trust for a woman to confide to a boyfriend this kind of thing. In SOME cases, this might explain issues she or both of you have. Is this sharing to build trust, to test it.
I don't think there is one global answer to your question OP... I think even tho' the numbers are common, the stories are very unique in their own way... So it all depends on what the rape meant to her and how it's affected her life, as to how she needs you to "receive" that information. Some women would feel further rejected if a man withdrew in that moment and truly need the hug. Others, while talking about it, get lost in the memory and something in them struggles so touching her is to touch an emotionally-struggling woman at that moment.
The one thing I don't think any woman would want is to be told to see a counselor immediately... It is a trust-building stage of the relationship so handling it with sensitivity and genuine compassion can only be a beautiful addition to her trust in you... | |
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/19/2008 11:57:52 PM | OP from a purely dating point of view I'd say if a woman opens up about this kind of thing early on that pretty much obliterates your chances of becoming intimate with them because they've turned you into their close friend/counsellor. It could also be either their way of 'putting you off' or as they open up to you they come to associate you with the painful experience and you're a part of the healing process they later want to forget about.
It's that thing about 'opening up to a stranger is easier than telling a friend because you want to keep your friends'.
I've met a lady who had an abortion and developed a phobia of being in a room with children because of it and I've met ladies who've told me 'horror' stories about men who assaulted them on dates (and I'm amazed how much some women will put up with - one lady was telling me how a guy had started slapping her in a lift and she hadn't phoned the police about it) but I've never come across a woman who told me she was raped before.
I have a 'gift' for getting people to reveal any phobias/obsessions they may have (until a few years ago I had suffered with these and learned how to get rid of them) and I can now get people to open up and give them specific advice - but doing that does not a dating recipe make.
It makes you a counsellor but it destroys 'romance', particularly if the lady becomes emotionally dependent on you so although being able to support someone in that way is rewarding at a deeply personal level I wouldn't ever plan on having a sexual relationship with someone who saw you in that way - once they're fully healed they don't want to be continually reminded of how much they 'owe' you.
Every person is an individual of course but I'm sure I wouldn't want to be attracting a load of obsessives/phobics with a view to forming a relationship with one of them - partly because of the risk they'd become emotionally dependent on me but also it would make my life hell! - I'd suggest you try not to accidentally become a shining light for rape/sexual assault victims - not unless you want to support them as a professional counsellor.
There's also a danger of seeing every woman you meet that way after a while and starting to dig for the painful stuff straight away - I'd imagine a date turning up asking to talk about your 'sexual assault history' could be a real passion killer! - not that you'd ever be that daft of course.
Personally if a woman started talking to me about a rape/sexual assault within the first few times I'd met her I'd recommend she get counselling support. We've all got our 'damage' from life but when a matter a fully sorted in our mind/body we no longer feel the urge to communicate it so readily and someone talking about such a thing when they hardly know us shows they are vulnerable to being manipulated and hurt further at that time. They're crying out for help.
Folks who are in that stage need support rather than dating. | |
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/20/2008 12:07:14 AM | not entirely true ^^^. sometimes people just open up because they trust someone whom they're becoming emotionally close to and they don't want to hide anything about themselves, not even the dark, sad, or scary parts. i'm a very open and honest person by nature, i don't keep secrets or hide things from friends or lovers. sharing my past does not mean i'm not over it, it doesn't mean the person i'm disclosing it to is filling the role of consellor, nor does this type of discussion exclude an intimate relationship with any man whom i've chosen to share this information with.
sure some women are still in the healing stages, and perhaps they still need to work through some issues before they can have healthy and meaningful relationships...but many of us are well-adjusted despite these negative experiences, and while we may talk about these unpleasant moments from our past, we're not broken or damaged, we don't need to be counselled or fixed...we merely need to be listened to and to feel that we can safely share without fear of judgment or presumption. | |
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/20/2008 1:05:45 AM | OP...my personal opinion as a survivor is that it would be great for you to verbally offer a hug but bad to physically initiate one. If the woman confiding in you IS someone you are intimate or may become intimate with it could be important to her and the relationship to know that you are not physically repelled by what she has told you.
When I was 18 I got engaged. I was a virgin and was raised to believe that you shouldn't have sex until your wedding night.He agreed to wait. But we were typical teenagers and we made out. One night things went farther than normal and because I was extremely niave I probably didn't realize things were getting out of hand as soon as I should have. The bottom line though is I said "no" and I said "stop"...repeatedly. It wasn't violent. I didn't have bruises after. But I was 4'11" and 95lbs and he was 6'3" and 200lbs. It wasn't hard for him to hold me down. Afterwards he told me it was my fault because I didn't fight hard enough and that I was lucky he was a "nice" guy and was still willing to marry me even though I was no longer a "nice" girl. What he said afterwards messed my head up more than what he did. This was over 20 years ago and they didn't talk about "date rape" back then. It took me alot of years to quit feeling it was my fault and tell anyone...even close friends...that I had been raped. And no I never reported it.
BUT the point I really want to make is to "Mary freaking poppins". He WAS someones son, and someone's brother, and since has become someone's husband and someone's father...it DOES happen...often. Is he what most people mentally picture a rapist to be? probably not. He was a 19 y/o boy . That doesn't mean he didn't rape me. | |
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/20/2008 4:13:19 AM |
And men do have their own set of problems, separate and apart from women, not one more devastating than the other, just different. And in many ways the same. And all have to be dealt with.
Very well stated.
Renaissance Man - I can certainly understand your position on technically more violent/forcible (physical evidence of force) rape as evidently more serious or valid than other forms of rape given your experience. However, there are no degrees or cut off line that delineates one form of rape as valid and another not rape at all - nor is the sense of violation any less. Date rapes do happen (without drugs), confidence rapes do happen, husbands have been known to rape their wives (my sister being one such survivor and her ex-husband even served prison time for it after being hauled out of the home in handcuffs) and so on.
All rape is violent and all rape is forcible. The more valid difference is the means by which force is applied.
OP is comfortable with validating that unwise decisions are "someone else's fault", and that a woman who has sex, and later regrets it, isn't responsible for her poor judgement ( as in choosing to get drunk and meet men in bars), fine.
Contrary to what some choose to believe, regardless of what setting a person chose to be in precipitating a rape, the victim is not responsible for the rapist's actions. Period. End of discussion there. NO means NO - period. As far as those rape survivors that did exercise poor judgment leading up to the rape, they most assuredly do a sufficient enough job beating themselves up for it without anyone's "help".
~former rape/crisis intervention counselor~ | |
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/20/2008 4:39:06 AM |
Contrary to what some choose to believe, regardless of what setting a person chose to be in precipitating a rape, the victim is not responsible for the rapist's actions. Period. End of discussion there. NO means NO - period. As far as those rape survivors that did exercise poor judgment leading up to the rape, they most assuredly do a sufficient enough job beating themselves up for it without anyone's "help".
Angelheart, I too worked as a rape counselor volunteer for a time following my experience, and it's too important a topic, to allow you to call me out by name, and then mischarecterize what I said.
No does mean no, and if sex ensues against someone's will, it is a criminal act, and creates emotional trauma in the victim. I am not debating that. We agree.
It's because it is such an important topic, that I think it's important not to allow it to be trivialized by lumping in things that aren't rape.
If two people have "drunk sex" and regret it the next day, it's not rape. If a woman feels "awful" about what she did, and then blames the man, who was just as drunk as she, calling it "rape", it distracts from the issue, and people who know the facts of the situation, will consign it to "shouting wolf", and tend to dismiss the importance of the issue.
Rape is a devastating experience, and rape victims need counseling, understanding, and to be given tools to overcome the aftermath. Confusing that issue with consensual sex, that is later regretted it, is a serious mistake. | |
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