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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/20/2008 5:56:07 AM | Anytime a person confides a traumatic event in thier lives, all they need is to be heard, not judged and most of all, believed.
I am not impressed with the anaolgy that if 1 in 3 women have been raped, then 1 in 3 men must be potential rapists.
A predator will attack multiple times over his/her life. This skews the numbers. I do not believe the avgerage man will commit this crime....it is committed by a small percentage of offenders...but thier crimes reach multiple victims and surviviors.
Just because you dont know personally someone who had had this happen, does not diminish the fact that it does happen. I have never wanted to be a pedophile, nor do I think I know one...but that doesnt mean they dont exist.
The very nature of this crime prohibits women from speaking. It feels degrading and embarrassing. If I were in a group setting and picked up on this type of attitude, I would clam up and you would never know it happened to me..therfor you would keep thinking you dont know anyone who has had it happen. You likely do know someone who has had this experience, but you either are not close enough to them for them to open up to you about it, or you gave the impression at one time that you dont believe it can happen, and they decided to keep this to themselves. It is a decision survivors make dozens of time per day...who to let in...and who to not let in.
If a survivor lets you in, it is a huge leap of faith for them to take, and it means a lot. Sort of soul bearing. | |
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/20/2008 6:09:41 AM | ^^^^^^^ correct..........speaking front eh perspective of child abuse..most abusers abuse 70 times before getting caught the first time
so it follows that rapists have more than one victim before being reported..........
certainly common sense dictates that there is not 1 rapsist for each rape survivor
PEACE | |
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/20/2008 6:20:05 AM | KTHYG'
We use to have girls week-end and it amazed me out of 14 of us woman 9 were fondled or incest or something by a relative. ( I heard of grandfathers, brothers, uncles dad's friends,) it is outrageous and so horrific.
Just look at the human trafficking that goes on with young girls. .
Allot of people are just plain mean to other's - especially the children..
Is it evil, Is it an illness, is it a desire, is it all three? | |
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/20/2008 6:39:27 AM | Funny, OP that you mentioned this, but ...like you...it seems every woman I dated or a female friend that I knew...was "raped" one way or another. But I am wondering how many of those claims are legit, you know? Esp with it "not being her fault."
Now, first I would like to say rape IS a horrendous thing....and It's terrible.
But, like I said, I just hear alot of "claims" from women that they've been raped.
During those crazy spring break parties, I hear cops state that a woman and a man in their state of drunkedness, wake up together, but the woman files charges for being "raped"
When in actuality, they were under the influence, go wild...and she woke up feeing "guilty" and laid the blame on the guy rather than accepting responsibilty for her own actions, "Yeah, I was wrong, I got drunk, and had sex with him."
There was this one case I knew of, that got thrown out of court by a judge, apparently.....these 2 guys met these 2 girls at a small bar....apparently they knew each other through friends....one woman was engaged.
Well, the ladies invite them over to her place to meet the fiance'....but he fiance' wasn't there....and apparently one of the guys raped her.
Turns out , it was proven she had consentual sex with the guy, but didn't want her fiance' to know that she cheated on him...so as a result...she called it "rape" instead....just to save her butt, and keep her fiance' from thinking she was being unfaithful.
It's cases like this that make me wonder, and with how much frequency actual REAL legit rape accures to the women that claim to have been raped.
I would bet that most women who claimed to have been raped were...
1. Sober, consented, but felt guilty about it after wards, and called it rape
2. Sober..consented...guy doesn't call her back, she's heart broken...and calls it rape.
3. Drunk...woke up with the guy they had sex with, and felt guilty about it.
Again, legit rape cases ARE bad...but I tend to wonder about women who claim that they've been raped....I mean, I won't question her about it or say to her, "Are you sure it wasn't consentual?"
That would just be rude...but I'll sympathize with her, because she could very well have been raped.
Definately a touchy subject here. | |
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/20/2008 7:31:13 AM |
I would bet that most women who claimed to have been raped were...
1. Sober, consented, but felt guilty about it after wards, and called it rape
2. Sober..consented...guy doesn't call her back, she's heart broken...and calls it rape.
3. Drunk...woke up with the guy they had sex with, and felt guilty about it.
Most!!!!!!!!!! I think not...........
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/20/2008 7:46:52 AM |
OP I am a little confused.Do these woman you date volunteer this infro as way of introducing themselves or is this after they get to know you and develop a bond of trust. Because there are things in my past that are never going to leave me .. I admire the man that can keep that kind of a secret without using later to get back at the female ( yeah some do) Trusting souls are hard to come by No means no guys ...no means no in my neck of the woods
One told me during a discussion of abortion. Was an established relationship.
One told me during our first meeting in person. Was the only date that had to go to the State's sexual offender list to show me pic of her father.
One told me during a discussion on what we consider forbidden in the bedroom. We have dated, but it was an LDR (long distance relationship).
One told me her first experience was waking up in a motel to find blood on the sheets. She believes she was drugged at a bar.
So to answer your question, only one told me in first meeting. Rest had some trust built up.
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/20/2008 8:58:59 AM |
If two people have "drunk sex" and regret it the next day, it's not rape. If a woman feels "awful" about what she did, and then blames the man, who was just as drunk as she, calling it "rape", it distracts from the issue, and people who know the facts of the situation, will consign it to "shouting wolf", and tend to dismiss the importance of the issue.
I agree, Renaissance Man, and thank you for clarifying differently what you meant, on the presumption that "drunk sex" was by mutual consent.
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/20/2008 9:38:46 AM | OP and others that may run across this situation..... There are plenty of us "Swimmers" that
don't feel the need to tell you all that's happened, mostly because we've learned to swim, not just tread water or sink.
There are those that wear our survivor status like a badge, feeling no shame or guilt whatsoever.
I too chose not to report a rape, only because I knew my then husband would literally kill the man.....
and I'd be left mentally, physically and emotionally devastated, AND ALONE...
And the one man that I trusted would have tossed his life out the window out of sheer
rage towards the man that attacked me and his incredible love for me.
Yah, no.
So yes, the stats are skewed.
As far as the question of how to handle it? Just being there, listening and not judging and
most importantly not treating the person with any difference is key. If they have some
healing left to do, remember it's not your job to do that for them. It's their own journey,
and they have to swim it alone.... *meaning with professional help, the unconditional love
from friends and family.... but the WORK is theirs to do.
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/20/2008 9:44:24 AM | OP - all you can do is listen to them. You can't fix them, you can't change the situation. These women will have to heal themselves, and if it takes professional help, then so be it.
You've been a real gentlemen with these women. | |
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/20/2008 9:53:12 AM | Consent is a legal term as well. Why you cannot simply gloss over "drunk sex".
Legal Consent is not there if the person "granting" does not have legal capacity to give consent. A child cannot give consent. A minor cannot give consent. A person with a mental handicap cannot give consent.
So, if you are saying that a drunk woman can give proper consent. Then I will state that the drunk man should know better than to take the chance of risking it in the first place.
Alcohol and drugs can lower inhibitions. Why SOME guys try to GET the woman drugged or drunk.
All I can say to these guys is do you REALLY want 12 people who could not get out of jury duty to decide whether the drugs or alcohol a woman consumed impaired her ability to give true legal consent.
Blaming a woman for drunk sex is the same as blaming a guy for falsely being accused of rape. If you are so drunk you do not know what you are doing, you can't give the consent needed. Guys that are so quick to blame the woman, I have a question. When a guy you know is accused of rape as a result of "drunk sex" do you tell HIM, "Well, by getting drunk and bringing her home you were asking for this to happen". THEN why the the hell do you tell the woman it was HER fault. The problem with being drunk is you might FORGET key details, like consent. Sad thing is, no one might ever know WHAT happened.
So guys, before you take that drunk girl home with you. Ask yourself if it is worth spending five years in jail over. Again, saying a drunk girl KNEW what she was doing means you cannot say you didn't know what you were doing. If she KNEW she could still say NO, then the guy should KNOW better than to put himself at risk. | |
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/20/2008 9:58:45 AM | First of all, I think sharing this very personal information on a first date is in poor taste. If that is information a woman wants you to know right up front......I think she may have some unresolved issues she is testing you about.
I have never been raped, so I cannot speak to the exact issue, but I do understand abuse. I think this is a topic for a woman and her counselor. Once you both have developed a relationship that seems to be on the road to something more substantial.......that is the time to bring up the heavy stuff.
Just my humble opinion. | |
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/20/2008 10:01:10 AM | I've lost count how many people both men and women have told me they were incested or raped by fathers, uncles, dates, sisters, strangers. Sometimes I've known them years before they tell. I'm absolutely certain none were making it up. Only two reported incest to the police - one father got weekends in jail for four months and another got 9 months and still harasses them a decade later.
Those were 20 years ago so maybe times have changed, I'm not sure.
Two have been disowned by their families who don't want to deal with it being true and one is afraid for her life if she tells. Two others still regularly see their assailants (both male incest survivors) rather than create a rift in the family.
If this is how many tell - then obviously this is not rare.
I don't know how to cousel an abuse victime especially other than listen and don't take any physical contact for granted without their obvious consent.
I doubt anyone make a false claim to this.It's a humiliating experience.
There are a lot of humans who take advantage of the vulnerable. I wish it wasn't true but sadly it is.
Those who strongly deny it make me think they are covering for their own tendencies to do this in some form or another - victimise people or shut victims down when the tell on them - with all the publicity these days about it they can't be simply ignorant of it.
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/20/2008 10:28:40 AM |
Posted By: billinmi on 7/20/2008 12  12 PM Message: Consent is a legal term as well. Why you cannot simply gloss over "drunk sex". Legal Consent is not there if the person "granting" does not have legal capacity to give consent. A child cannot give consent. A minor cannot give consent. A person with a mental handicap cannot give consent. So, if you are saying that a drunk woman can give proper consent. Then I will state that the drunk man should know better than to take the chance of risking it in the first place. Alcohol and drugs can lower inhibitions. Why SOME guys try to GET the woman drugged or drunk. All I can say to these guys is do you REALLY want 12 people who could not get out of jury duty to decide whether the drugs or alcohol a woman consumed impaired her ability to give true legal consent. Blaming a woman for drunk sex is the same as blaming a guy for falsely being accused of rape. If you are so drunk you do not know what you are doing, you can't give the consent needed. Guys that are so quick to blame the woman, I have a question. When a guy you know is accused of rape as a result of "drunk sex" do you tell HIM, "Well, by getting drunk and bringing her home you were asking for this to happen". THEN why the the hell do you tell the woman it was HER fault. The problem with being drunk is you might FORGET key details, like consent. Sad thing is, no one might ever know WHAT happened. So guys, before you take that drunk girl home with you. Ask yourself if it is worth spending five years in jail over. Again, saying a drunk girl KNEW what she was doing means you cannot say you didn't know what you were doing. If she KNEW she could still say NO, then the guy should KNOW better than to put himself at risk.
So people should be held responsible for getting into a car and driving while intoxicated, but not for inviting a man home for hot monkey sex? That makes perfect sense. Thank you for that.
Alcohol lowers your inhibitions. That means you are more likely to be yourself. Sometimes, what's on the inside is not something we want to let out. We've all seen the angry drunks, the crying drunks, the wild and reckless drunks... The list goes on. This is who they really are. If you want honesty, ask a very young child or a drunk.
I think you assume that women, and men, only do these things when they are sloppy falling down drunk. Or that they are being taken advantage of because they are in a state of catatomia. While this happens, it is not even close to the number of times when it is just them doing something they wanted to do; but knew better than do it when they were sober. The next day there is regret; and, if they are in a situation that is damaging to them in a way they can't accept, they turn to damage control. Rape or sexual assault takes the blame off of them... Whether they report it or not.
At the same time, men that are suppressing sexual aggression are more dangerous to women while drinking. When there is no definitive physical evidence, and only the "he said she said" argument to fall back on, nobody knows what really happened, and justice doesn't allow us to punnish someone on an assumption. That system fails both sides; but, it's the best we have. | |
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/20/2008 10:41:31 AM |
Posted By: tinydancer123 on 7/20/2008 1:01:10 PM
Message: ....
Those who strongly deny it make me think they are covering for their own tendencies to do this in some form or another - victimise people or shut victims down when the tell on them - with all the publicity these days about it they can't be simply ignorant of it.
I hope I don't come across as a denier. That's not my intention at all. All that stuff happens and it happens too much. I just don't like the way women are able to wield the power of automatic acceptance for what they say in these matters. There ARE two sides to this. Not everone who claims to have been assaulted has been. There are many reasons why someone would claim this. It really does not take one thinking very hard to come up with them. | |
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/20/2008 11:16:26 AM | For those of you that missed the correction, which the OP meant to say: 1 in 3 females have been sexually ASSAULTED by the age of 18, Let me tell you...
Assaulted doesn't mean raped but it's obviously wrong too. Example: When I was in 5th grade, 2 guys in gym class were pulling up 2 girls shirts grabbing their boobs! That is sexual assault!
Then in Junior High, 5 class bullies went around snapping the bras of all the girls, the female teachers went into the bathroom to help staple back their bra because those guys snapped it so hard they tore the clasps. Another example of what sexual assault could be.
I can go on with the horrid examples if you all want to keep denying the statistics. You may live in a quiet town so their is less and when it does happen it is hidden.
I've gone out with a few girls that have been raped. In my city THOSE STATISTICS MUST BE TRUE IMO! I am very close to this subject as I have helped and comforted many girls who have been raped. I'm the type of person that tries to help people and will listen with understanding and compassion (something society lacks these days.)
It's shocking how much sexual assault happens. Oh and by the way, the girls who told me, 50% told me that they have only told a few people and none of the guys they gone out with. Before you say you think they are lying, believe me I can tell if they are lying because I know a lot about rape victims and what they report. It's a horrible act that society does not understand. People think someone gets raped and then the act is over. It's not, it goes on to haunt them for life, in their nightmares, and many self-medicate to kill the paid. I myself was abused when I was younger which is why girls tend to confide in me more. I share my story too.
Many people don't report it because they already seen what happens to others. Society and the courts tend to blame the victim and the media makes a circus out of the entire event. Event many guys won't go out with a girl if they know about the rape. How many times have you seen the news and heard people throw blame the wrong way?
[EDIT]
One more thing because it was mentioned. These days guy do stuff to border on rape. The not only get the girl drunk but also give her Xanax or another Benzodiazapine by tricker her into taking it. They will say it does this or that, the girl who never heard of it and is willing to experiment, ends up almost out for the count. A girl told me once how it happened and that she knew that if she reported it everyone would blame her so she kept it secret. | |
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/20/2008 6:10:40 PM | [The statistics on rape are greatly exaggerated. If one in three women had been raped then most of the women I know should of been raped at least once in their life. I know no one who has been raped. You are either running directly into women who had truly been raped ,which would be very unusual ,or you are running into liars.]
I'm suprised by your response. I am a successful, intelligent women who was raised in a loving household and was raped. I have many friends of different backgrounds who have had the same experience. I find rape to be more common than uncommon. The statistics are not exaggerated. Perhaps you have been one very lucky lady. Or, you may not recognize rape. If at any time in your life you were forced to have sex and didn't want to, you were raped. It is unfortunate for those women who feel they brought it on or deserved it because they were flirting or drinking. It is still rape and unexcuseable.
I think some women take their experiences and grow from them and learn. Some women hold on to it and become victims. The fact is, each person is different.
Listen, be understanding and don't judge. This is the best advise anyone can give. | |
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| Ladies, how would you LIKE us to handle this?
Posted: 7/20/2008 7:05:57 PM | All I said was if you are willing to blame a woman for poor choices when drunk, you must also blame guys for making poor choices.
I have little sympathy for guys accused of rape as a result of drunk sex. They should have known better than to put themselves in that situation.
It may be a "he said, she said" situation, but there are NO winners jin that situation. You want a "sure thing", hire a prostitute.
Any PERSON having sex drunk is asking for trouble. Not only over consent issue, but STD's. | |
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