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| What makes a relationship a mistake?
Posted: 7/20/2008 9:13:27 AM | Wow, OP, that's a lot to think about... Very good information... I expect a lot of us not to look at it that way, and its definitely something to think about... Kind of makes us change our views on more than just relationships...
Good Job... Even I'm speechless as what to reply... Kudos!
CowTrucker
Chapman, Kansas | |
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| What makes a relationship a mistake?
Posted: 7/20/2008 11:46:52 AM | CT, what amazes me about this thread, so far, has been the civility, and the respect amongst the posters for disparate points of view. It's not always that way on POF. Of course, that too, is in the "now"; and sooner or later, this thread may well go the way of all threads.
Other posters have sparked my introspection, though, and made me realize how my view of "goal setting", letting go of resentments, and avoiding projecting into the future all are part of my view of relationships.
For me, setting goals is a critical part of achieving success, but if set too high, they become demoralizing. If anything less than "forever " is "failure", and if one is so focused on "tomorrow' as to miss the delights of "today", I can see why so many people are discouraged about dating and relationships.
So, for me, I choose to set my goals in line with life experience, concentrate on enjoying today, while hoping for tomorrow, and if something good comes to an end, to try to have an attitude of gratitude, rather than let the disappointment define the experience. | |
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| What makes a relationship a mistake?
Posted: 7/20/2008 11:51:45 AM | Re the Opost
IMO/IME what determines whether a rel was a "success" or not is not so much related to duration but the manner in which the two terminate it. If it end in an "ugly" way, then no "success", whether it lasted a a week or 40 years! | |
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| What makes a relationship a mistake?
Posted: 7/20/2008 11:52:41 AM | | Yeah, one relationship after another, at approximate 6 month intervals is called Serial Dating. Not a sign of character in my opinion. Serial dating leads to all kinds of problems from sexually transmitted diseases to Oh Yeah, is there a kid involved? It's true that we hopefully learn and grow from our experiences, but when it comes to another person's heart, I'd rather not hurt them in the first place. | |
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| What makes a relationship a mistake?
Posted: 7/20/2008 11:55:27 AM | yeah everything the posters above me said.....
a relationship is a mistake when you stay in it & you know its not good.... | |
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| What makes a relationship a mistake?
Posted: 7/20/2008 12:14:12 PM | | I heard something good this morning at church.. (not that I am all that surprised) but what the speaker said made sense. He said "anything in your life that subtracts from your life should be out of your life".. so I am not saying to bail when hard times comes to a relationship.. but I am saying when the very life is being sucked out of you.. get out!! | |
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| What makes a relationship a mistake?
Posted: 7/20/2008 12:56:13 PM | [Quote]For me, though, that's friendship, and doesn't meet the need for an intense connection with a woman, in the way that seems an instinctive response to the "mating instinct". A relationship that is primarily about companionship may include sex, but it isn't likely to be the "cosmic sex" that comes with intense romantic love.
I find it awful sad that some people can't seem to conceive of a relationship that has both romantic love and companionship. I knew a guy like that - actually wanted to keep me to fulfil his emotional intimacy needs while fulfilling other needs with someone else! It's actually possible to find all that in one person; once you realize that, then bits and pieces aren't enough. Refusing to settle for less doesn't mean you enjoy life any less - it probably means you enjoy it more.
I just can't imagine that all the women you're loving and leaving deal with repeated loss with similar equanamity. I think most of us aren't built to love and lose time and again.
As for memories, mine are fine, thanks, and, actually, a string of short-term rolls in the hay with people who then disappear from one's life doesn't sound like the grandest of collections of memories to me. | |
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| What makes a relationship a mistake?
Posted: 7/20/2008 12:59:06 PM | OP,
It depends on both parties' agendas and it's also situation-dependent. If there is a mutual agreement to date only or a mutual agreement to have a serious relationship for "however long it lasts," and that's what happened, then it's a success. If there was a marriage involved, then a divorce is a failure. Afterall, by definition, marriage is for life and anything short of that is a failure (again, by very definition).
The problem with a lot of relationships is this: too many hidden agendas where both parties aren't on the same page. (I'm referring to non-marital relationships here.) | |
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| What makes a relationship a mistake?
Posted: 7/20/2008 1:22:49 PM | I would not necessarily comment upon the "success" or "failure" of a relationship, but on endurance and fleeting nature of them. In that, I think you have answered your own question.
Of course, but for me, the 20 year marriage that was held together, while our children were growing up, stayed together, because of a committment to our children. It had a "higher purpose", that transcended our "happiness" with each other romantically. So, staying together, for that purpose was not a mistake. It ended, when it was not traumatic for our children. I don't view that as a mistake.
The reason for endurance in a relationship between a man and a woman therefore is "higher cause". In the absence of that higher cause, it ceases to be a "relationship" following which is the dispensable need to judge its "success" or "failure". Transient tie-ins, hook-ups, associations, alliances, partnerships may have fond memories, but unlike enduring relationships the memories are also just as evanescent. I am sure you have a larger and strongly rooted memories of your children family etc than your 6 month hook ups. | |
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| What makes a relationship a mistake?
Posted: 7/20/2008 1:38:23 PM | I AGREE with your statement completely Merrylass. ( I haven' figured out how to put the copy and paste into one of those little white boxes. :(
"You seem to think that people want long-term relationships because they don't enjoy being alone. That may be true for some, but others of us are perfectly fine being alone but know that living with a person whose company you enjoy is even more fun and prefer to have that kind of 'goodie' if possible"
I also believe that there are some people (probably quite a big percentage that think that they HAVE to be in a relationship to be complete. Like Mary lass says though, the rest of us are fine being alone (we can entertain ourselves). ( I Have been divorced for over 10 years and probably have no more than a handful of days that I felt Lonely)
We we KNOW that sharing our lives with someone "special" is much more fullfilling.
I don't know if any relationships should be considered failures. I do know that I've had a couple that were great while they lasted but after the fact, I am not sure that the pain was worth the good times. The good times are great but the pain can sometimes be unbearable. | |
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| What makes a relationship a mistake?
Posted: 7/20/2008 1:38:50 PM |
The reason for endurance in a relationship between a man and a woman therefore is "higher cause". In the absence of that higher cause, it ceases to be a "relationship" following which is the dispensable need to judge its "success" or "failure".
Excellent, thought provoking post, atunehed.
I think that you're exactly right that, during the point in life where people have children, there is a "higher cause" that is more important than self. Absent untenable circumstances, I think that adults owe their children a two parent family during their formative years, and beyond. "Staying together for the children" is NOT a mistake.
In the "old" days, there was a higher societal purpose in trying to coerce couples to stay together. The structure of society depended on it, so it was a true failure, when a marriage ended.
I disagree that relationships that last 6 months, a year, 2 year are the same as "hook ups", though. They are sincere, can involve deep feelings, but without the "higher cause" there is no committment to a goal of "forever", and they needn't be considered "mistakes" or "failures". They can, and do, meet important human needs for a time, but when they end, they end for the reason that they are no longer meeting important needs.
I believe that jobs and careers are an apt analogy, and that how we view career issues has undergone a similar societal evolution. In the "old days" the "expectation" was for someone to work for one company throughout his working life, and then retire with a pension. Losing one's job was a tragedy, and being fired a "failure". That is no longer the paradigm, and most people expect to go through a job on an average of every 5 years. When the time comes to make a job switch, most people take the skills from the last job, and move to the new, without thinking of a job that served its purpose for a time as a failure or "mistake". | |
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| What makes a relationship a mistake?
Posted: 7/20/2008 1:41:52 PM |
do know that I've had a couple that were great while they lasted but after the fact, I am not sure that the pain was worth the good times. The good times are great but the pain can sometimes be unbearable.
I wonder, though, if the pain comes from the "death of the dream" that a relationship will last "forever"? Would you feel so hurt, if you just let love flow, without trying to "figure out" an unknowable future, and attaching so much importance to "tomorrow", that you can't fully enjoy "today", until you feel "sure' that it will last? | |
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| What makes a relationship a mistake?
Posted: 7/20/2008 1:53:42 PM | GOOD question and I have to admit that I don't have a clue as to my real answer on that one. Maybe some therapy is in order :)
I guess that I have always been been a person that always thinks?worries about the future more than I live for today. ( I DO admire people that can live for today and not worry to much about the future). I am talking, jobs, retirement, relationships ect ect.
I don't usually like to date just to be dating. (like I said, I like myself and am relatively happy and can keep myself entertained) So yes, when I get into a relationship (haven't been in many in my whole life) I am usally looking at it from a long term perspective.
I believe that in GOOD relationships while being two different people in many ways, you do become ONE. When half the one goes away, it usually is painful.
I've really only had one " real relationship" (9 months) since my 11. 5 year marriage ended over 10 years ago. I've dated a few woman for a few months and I guess on those I knew pretty early on that they probably would not be long term (although I was not the one to end any of these)
The last girl I dated was only for 2 months (3 months counting the 3 week break she had to have and the first week of her 5 week vacation). This woman really rocked my boat so to speak and I definitely saw long term potential there, but the pain is pretty bad. | |
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| What makes a relationship a mistake?
Posted: 7/20/2008 2:12:33 PM |
I believe that jobs and careers are an apt analogy, and that how we view career issues has undergone a similar societal evolution.
Funny take, but still needs a bit of fine tuning in my view. It is inappropriate to equate a "relationship" to a "job". For the moment, I can only conjure moral reasons; individuals comprising the relationship are expected to put more into it than into a job. Relationship would be more akin to a vocation. If you are a carpenter, you'd like to be the best carpenter one can be; just like a relationship (as I define one of course) you'd like to give all there is to it. There is a higher purpose in both. Jobs for the carpenter may come and go, but his/her vocation still reigns supreme.
If you are uncomfortable with the use of the word "hook-ups", how about "alliances"? However nothing in the world is everlasting. And as another poster very correctly pointed out, it is harsh to judge success an failure; there are only lessons learned and experiences gained. | |
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| What makes a relationship a mistake?
Posted: 7/20/2008 2:19:10 PM | | In my opinion, when there is nothing redeeming in it. But, this applies to a very small minority of my relationships. The others didn't work out, but they weren't 'mistakes'. | |
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| What makes a relationship a mistake?
Posted: 7/20/2008 2:58:20 PM |
I wonder, though, if the pain comes from the "death of the dream" that a relationship will last "forever"?
I think the pain is because we're no longer with our partner, and I think we view failure not in terms of "well, we just lost interest", but in terms of "I couldn't make it work", and/or that we were deemed "wrong".
I disagree that relationships that last 6 months, a year, 2 year are the same as "hook ups", though. They are sincere, can involve deep feelings, but without the "higher cause" there is no committment to a goal of "forever", and they needn't be considered "mistakes" or "failures". They can, and do, meet important human needs for a time, but when they end, they end for the reason that they are no longer meeting important needs.
It seems to me that a person oughta find this kind of fleeting, ever changing need for "juice" from within themselves, vs. a handful or 20 other folks shooting in and out of their lives. Their discontent is their own responsibility. It seems what you're really saying in the area I highlighted is that this person just grows bored....well, that boredom is something that no one else can address.
there is no committment to a goal of "forever",
Exactly. When you go in expecting it to be "just for a time", and you have no commitment to keeping said relationship alive and growing, and feel no responsibility to your partnership or the health of the relationship, then you're in it for selfish reasons that are dependent on that temporary buzz one finds in new encounters, and a predefined role the partner "should" play. This results in repeatedly trading partners in and out, seeking that same buzz over and over again, and losing interest when the juice doesn't feel the same anymore. It'll never end, until a person is able to juice themselves.
The only higher goal for me has always been a mutually satisfying, healthy, thriving, loving partnership in which the needs of both partners are equal in importance. Sure, people change and relationships ebb and flow, but those changes, through commitment and care, can just as easily lead to growth and fulfillment beyond what we might imagine. It's a choice.
I don't know about other folks, but I've approached relationships because:
I had a desire to be in a relationship
I wanted to be with him
I wanted to experience romantic love
I've never made up my mind ahead of time that a relationship would have limitations, and that I wouldn't allow them the freedom to reveal themselves to me, in their entirety. And I've never had a goal of placing them in my life with a preset role that they would play. I went in wide open...I just don't know any other way.
It's true that we create our relationships, and if we assign limitations and roles, that's exactly what we'll experience. | |
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| What makes a relationship a mistake?
Posted: 7/20/2008 3:12:52 PM |
you're in it for selfish reasons that are dependent on that temporary buzz one finds in new encounters, and a predefined role the partner "should" play.
I make no bones about it, at this point in life. What I can't find with friends, or by finding serenity within myself, is fulfillment of the normal, human sex drive. At an earlier point in life, when there was the need to have children, there was, as an earlier poster suggested, a "higher cause", something to which we committed for the long haul, and we were married for 20 years.
Now, though, if two consensenting adults recognize that they crave an intimate relationship, while retaining some degree of individual autonomy, that seems to be the relationship model that satisfies my needs, and the similarly minded women, with whom I've shared love.
It would be wonderful, if I were to find that ultimate "grand passion/great love" that went on for the rest of life. I'm not ruling it out. On the other hand, there's no "higher cause" at this stage in life, to "hang in there", if it ceases to be fulfilling.
I'm not talking about finding "casual sex". That's not particularly intimate or fulfilling. It is in seeking romantic love, and reserving intimacy for relationships in which there is strong mutual sexual attraction, which, for me, is the foundation upon which love grows, and a purpose found for the "friendship things" of an intimate relationship.
If it does all that, for however long it does, and it ends well, I don't view it as a "mistake", nor the "death of hopes and dreams". | |
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| What makes a relationship a mistake?
Posted: 7/20/2008 5:02:36 PM | "Intense romantic love", or actually "intense romantic Eros (in Love)" does indeed foster "cosmic sex" but "intense romantic Eros (in Love)" does not an LTR make, because "intense romantic Eros (in Love)" only last for a few weeks, months or at best years. Not for what is considered a "long term" by LTR proponents.
A relationship often "fails" because the two fail to realise that when Eros is gone, the rel is naturally over, thus try to prolong it with "artificial" means until it eventualy "crashes", instead of "landing". | |
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| What makes a relationship a mistake?
Posted: 7/20/2008 5:57:38 PM | Some really interesting points in here!
If I go to the gas station and and put diesel in instead of gas, that's a mistake.
If I get into a relationship with the expectation or hope that it will be till death do us part and it ends, that's not a mistake but a disapointment. Yes, like others have said it is all about your expectations and there all al kinds of those!!!!
I suppose you could call it a mistake if the signs were there when you got into it and you couldn't MAKE it work!!! LOL
It's truly only a mistake if you don't learn to let go, forgive yourself as well as the other person and move on with love of life in your heart again!!!!
Wonder who I am talking too!!!!!
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| What makes a relationship a mistake?
Posted: 7/20/2008 6:08:52 PM | | Have you heard of the old poem a reason, a season and a lifetime? Each experiences is unique and helps US grow as a person. What we learn in the past - we hope to avoid the same problems we face in the future. | |
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| What makes a relationship a mistake?
Posted: 7/20/2008 6:14:33 PM | There are many ways you can relate to relationships.Yours was just lack of (communications) because u never realized that he didn't love u all that time,being nice being a smoothy to you when u first met was just a put on for you. Look at yourself your a beautiful woman,and thats what guys go for, sad but true.
Make sure u really get info before u ever go out or meet someone,u got to see for ur self and that takes at least a month or u will be sry again...Me it takes 2-3 weeks before i know ok...this woman is ok. And never never judge a person,the one you judge may have been the one for you. So thats some that makes a relationship a mistake.
Brad | |
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| What makes a relationship a mistake?
Posted: 7/20/2008 6:23:30 PM |
In the absence of that higher cause, it ceases to be a "relationship" following which is the dispensable need to judge its "success" or "failure".
You're assuming people have a "need" to psychologically judge or pigeonhole. I don't see it that way. I operate in purely logical terms. It was either successful or it wasn't --- of course, that depends on how the relationship was originally defined.
I do agree with the tenor of what you say, but its logic fails. | |
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| What makes a relationship a mistake?
Posted: 7/20/2008 6:27:58 PM | I don’t think most people consider MOST of their past relationships a ‘mistake’, I haven’t seen that really listed on anyone’s profile…
Regarding “So, why is it a "mistake" to have a relationship that is mutually satisfactory for some period of time, and ends, when it is no longer meeting the needs of both?”
It’s only a mistake if one person said whatever the other person wanted to hear, in order to get them to stick around that long…. The whole point of dating is to see if two people click, so it’s not unusual to date someone for months and find out you don’t…however if you continually have 6 month type relationships where it “no longer meets the needs of both people”, then it sounds like one of the two people wants to just ‘date’ many people the rest of their lives with no intention of trying it for any real length of time, and they aren’t honest with the other person about it…finally, the person who thought ‘it’ might last for at least many years, realizes they have been wasting their time….
True no one takes a job expecting it to last the rest of their lives, but no one will hire someone who switches jobs every six months or so either, because you’re considered ‘unstable and non-committed and a job hopper!”…. Same applies to dating in my book, but I'm going on the assumption that someone has a continuous habit of only dating for a short period of time and then moving on…. LOL | |
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| What makes a relationship a mistake?
Posted: 7/20/2008 6:29:19 PM | | After two years, that love you first felt changes and now you have to work at it and I am sure you might be living together if not, still read on. Compromise and dont be a princess. Men, dont be aloof and throw tantrums when you dont get your way. After two years the partners have to show more respect now and appreciate the small things at the same time changing things up a bit. Do things for each other and get going. If you guys are fighting and shit the respect is not there. If the fighting continues, it means one person doesnt want to play along. Why argue? I feel if you seperate after 5 years together, you didnt tried hard enough | |
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| What makes a relationship a mistake?
Posted: 7/20/2008 7:07:26 PM |
(OP) So, why is it a "mistake" to have a relationship that is mutually satisfactory for some period of time, and ends, when it is no longer meeting the needs of both?
It would depend on what two people agreed upon. If they both agreed they are seeking a permanent relationship then ending it is breaking ones word which brings up something that has always puzzled me. Why would someone remain friends with a person whose word is not good? But that's a topic for another time.
Any long term relationship I was involved in had a direct bearing on important life decisions. That could be anything from deciding not to take a job out of town to selling ones home and living together.
I can't see going into a relationship knowing it's only temporary and at the same time giving 100%. It would be a situation where the balance sheet is scrutinized each day or each week or, at least, each month to ensure one is getting what they want. There would be little point in compromising knowing the other party would not be around to compromise on something in the future.
So, the short answer is it would be a mistake if one believed it was to be permanent.
As a side note when I see profiles with long "must have" lists that tells me those folks are most likely seeking a temporary relationship because they will leave if their partner stops fulfilling those requirements which is the reason I never had a list when I was seeking a relationship. | |
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