| What defences do you have and what are you defending?
Posted: 7/25/2008 5:17:15 AM | This question pre supposes that you are capable of a honest examination of self.
Let me say at the outset that you may be a person that has had no need to ask that question of self and that is perfectly acceptable. This post is probably in that case not for you.
It has also been my obseravtion that honest examination of self was a brutally painful experience.
So to start the post off...... for my part I have spent most of my life defending a sense of fragmentation and incompleteness that I was in denial about. God knows where it came from but probably started when i was knee high. At my adult core was a fear of rejection and being unloved or just plain feeling unlovable because of who or what i percieved myself to be.
That manifested in behaviours that essentially defended that reality and contibuted in no small measure to my facade.....to my phoney self. These behaviours such as lying, selfishness, grandiosity,poor impulse control ect to name but a few and the things that palliated the sense of fragmentation...... drugs, (lots of drugs and include alcohol in that category), sex, (lots of sex), gambling, adrenaline, ect ect ad infinitum eventually leading to being rejected and uncared for. My core beliefs were confirmed and reinforced ,the cycle was vicious and there was only going to be one outcome!
My conclusion to all this ,is the solution is to be "defenseless and defend nothing about myself". That is no easy accomplishment and i wrestle with it on a daily basis..
Does anyone know what i am talking about? If you do and want to share your experience then there is only one requirement ........keep it in the first person....it is far more powerful for me.
When you talk about "We, you, they, us or humanity" it suggests to me you might be defending something. LOL | |
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| What defences do you have and what are you defending?
Posted: 7/25/2008 6:31:25 AM | This is an interesting question. Your solution "to be defenseless and defend nothing about myself" is perhaps in itself a defence, but I think you are closer to being where you want to be than I am. I have also been struggling with self examination over the past few years, even more so over the past several months. My defence mechanisms were perhaps not as self destructive as yours as I always had other people who depended on me and I became more introverted which tranlates into stable, quiet and boring. I have always had a fear of rejection and being unlovable and not having opinions worthy enough to share with the world. Some of those feelings I do know where they solidified, but the origins are harder to define since it usually isn't just one experience but a series and that makes it even harder to deal with. Once I began to break down barriers within myself I discovered deeper ones and the barriers began to go back up until I was able deal with those ones again.
You are correct when you said it is a very painful process to look at my own mistakes and circumstances caused by decisions I made somewhere in the distant past. Some couldn't have been avoided and others (that I regret) were made because I hadn't taken the time to deal with or even recognize barriers that were already cemented in place. I am still a work in progress and I am still working to recognize the blocks in each barrier because my walls don't usually tumle down, they have to be dismantled one block at a time. | |
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| What defences do you have and what are you defending?
Posted: 7/25/2008 7:05:07 AM | For me it was growing up middle class in an area of very wealthy new money. I was picked on about everything from my clothes, to what kind of vehicle my Dad drove to the fact that we mowed our own lawn and did not have a lawn service. I was very ashamed that my Dad got his hands dirty for a living where everyone else's Dads were professionals, Drs and Lawyers. My parents worked their tails off to get us in the best school district possible. As an adult I am so proud of my parents. They put three kids through college and loved us unconditionally.
The things I fight are feelings of negative self worth. I will never be as pretty, as smart or as accomplished as other women. Now that I am a single Mom that rarely sees child support I struggle with this every day. I sometimes feel my own failures may cause my children to grow up and feel the same way one day. | |
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| What defences do you have and what are you defending?
Posted: 7/25/2008 7:16:06 AM | I've been gradually moving to more first person representation when I speak of my experiences and challenges. It's a fine line to walk on here - easy to slip into the giving away too much info that is simply not appropriate...
I've been doing A LOT of self examination in the past year. I've discovered that I really do like the person that I am - I do fun things in my life and am a noble, fun, all-around generous nice guy. Ironically, this means that the majority of women that I interact with will have nothing to do with me... I think something is getting lost in translation :P
We are all, all of us, works in progress. That's the point of life. Life is a series of random stuff that happens to you with neither rhyme nor reason. It's how we chose to deal with these things that define us as people. | |
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| What defences do you have and what are you defending?
Posted: 7/25/2008 7:47:37 AM | I have always had a fear of rejection...
For the benefit of the original poster (stater of this thread) and others, I know that fear is future oriented, and that I and you and others (we) have erected barriers in the form of ego defense mechanisms (repression, denial, projection, etc.) to avoid anxiety about whatever it is that triggers anxiety (_____________ fill in the blank and discover the object of fear).
But why should I be afraid of the truth or the future or both? That is the question you and I and others (WE) need to ask because I will discover the truth, at least about myself, and the truth about anyone with whom I might form a relation. | |
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| What defences do you have and what are you defending?
Posted: 7/25/2008 8:06:55 AM | It is funny CW..., my first reaction to your post was to "defend" my post
I think you have hit the one point everyone who struggles with self examination of defences would like to get to..., "Why should I be afraid of the truth or the future or both?"
I find it admirable that you can think that way and have come to a point where you have dealt with all of your past issues. It is such a simple concept but I have found it a very long road to get to where I am and I know that I am no where near being able to ask the question and know the answer. | |
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| What defences do you have and what are you defending?
Posted: 7/25/2008 9:55:06 AM | I don't see being defenseless and defending nothing as being a positive thing because it ignores the realities of the world within which we live. Defense mechanisms exist for a reason and they are not inherently bad. What becomes a problem is when the individual is unaware of their triggers and consequently, engages in behavior designed to sabotage the relationship, self-destructive, etc.
When defense mechanisms do their job they allow people to pay attention to possible dangers and devise the best course of action. So if someone says they are not jealous and insecure but start interrogating you and twisting what you say, this may be an isolated incident but it may be indicative of a problem. If your defense mechanisms are working properly, you do not make a snap judgment but pay attention to see if something is situational or part of a pattern.
People need to find a balance between recognizing that certain behaviors may be a sign of a problem but also giving the individual a chance to show you either that it is or is not before you make any decisions on how you will act. People should also talk about their past and if someone triggers a response, they know where it is coming from and can deal with it rather than wondering what is going on. Someone might innocently ask what you did today but if you were with someone controlling, rather than seeing it as caring and honest interest, you assume that it is based on distrust and may react negatively. If someone is aware of this, they can explain, hey just wanted to see if you had a good day.
As in all things, communication is essential and in a way, communicating with yourself. Keep up the introspection when life is good and you will recognize when your old habits are about to defeat you and you can change them. Sometimes we need a little help from others in continuing to work on these things. | |
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| What defences do you have and what are you defending?
Posted: 7/25/2008 10:17:23 AM |
I don't see being defenseless and defending nothing as being a positive thing because
I think you just qualified as being defensive :-)
For me it is feeling weak and inconsequential and others. A feeling that nothing I do, say, think, or feel has any impact. The feeling that I do not matter in any significant way.
I know mostly where these things came from when I was a child. I make an effort to not believe they are true. I try not to project these things on to others but do fail and find that certain things others do will trigger these feelings and when I am unable to open the communication door that I need to have with partners about these things I will hide my feelings and it impacts how I feel about them. It is a source of anger, frustration, loneliness, and rejection.
I am glad I know about it now. I have for a long time. I do not want someone to fix me because I no longer need it. However, being teased, laughed at, or the basic rolling eyes rejection that occurs just leads me to think that they are not for me since they have obviously not come to terms with their own issues yet.
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| What defences do you have and what are you defending?
Posted: 7/25/2008 10:19:57 AM | | I've known my own weaknesses for a few years at this point... I started self-analyzing about 5 years ago. And as much as I'm willing to point out my flaws to anybody that asks, I don't really feel like airing my dirty laundry for the world to see, this morning. | |
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| What defences do you have and what are you defending?
Posted: 7/25/2008 11:06:35 AM | | Well, I think that it is important to be in a position where, when the defense mechanism automatically kicks in, I can let it happen and be aware of what is happening before I speak. When I speak it is usually to say something like, "well, I guess you are right." It's amazing how much that can free me. Sometimes I simply pay a moment of respect to this newfound self-awareness and know it is old conditioning that I choose to let go of. Other times I realize it is more intuitive or instinctive and I just back away without getting defensive. I am like you. I see the importance of not perpetuating any self-fulfilling prophesies. That being said though, I do still see that I defend my right to make mistakes. Sometimes I just know I have to experience something I know is not quite right for me but feels good, like a love relationship for instance, so that I can learn whatever it is I have to learn. In the past I had always defended right to have my addictions. That gets old fast and thankfully we get wiser. | |
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| What defences do you have and what are you defending?
Posted: 7/25/2008 1:12:17 PM | Defences, I've never really understood... I have always been easily hurt and it has felt like everyone else has all these shields from Life and I don't have any. You could just call me "over sensitive". I thought that one was to overcome fear with courage, not by hiding. So fears...
Uncertainty and lack of clarity bothers me very much. I edit and re-edit my posts to make them represent my truth as clearly as I am able. I want to be clear. I want to be understood. It hurts me to be misunderstood, especially when my good intentions are interpreted as bad ones. It hurts me when I hurt or offend other people because that is not in my heart but I can be hasty or clumsy and make mistakes.
It hurts me deeply that I only am this -- this pathetic creature. My heart feels so full of wanting to make things better, to lessen the huge amount of suffering and I am just 'this' -- so limited and weak and stupid and short-sighted and clumsy -- human. And I have to try to communicate what is in my heart using words and to fail all the time to shine the light I'd like to be shining. And sometimes I can accept that I'm just a slightly-evolved monkey with good intentions but I long to know better so I may do better and I feel extremely frustrated at my own ignorance and limitations and slowness to learn and realise how to do better than I am currently doing.
Fear doesn't exactly bother me emotionally, I just squash it down and override it when it is irrational. As someone with a lot of everyday fear, this is something I've become adept at doing. :) Unfortunately, in the long term that tactic seems to be bothering me physically so now I've decided to make space for fear in my life -- just another part of being human...
I don't want defences -- I'd fear the defences more than anything else, because defences get in the way of learning and clarity. Defences are obstacles and hide things. I want for nothing to be hidden in such an inhibiting way... I would rather feel hurt and be able to learn than be limited by some self-protective device that stops me from learning. | |
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| What defences do you have and what are you defending?
Posted: 7/25/2008 4:23:30 PM | Thank you ......some of the above ,started immediately by star, was what i would class as brutally honest......i have always felt that honesty has a ring to it....it is unmistakeable.
I feel that i have listened to what I recognise as empowerment.
"It's amazing how much that can free me."to quote actual .........and rune your comment "I don't want defences because defences get in the way of learning and clarity" is so right. Carol ,I never quite clocked defending against shame which you described beautifully and i am reminded of how true that is. Aries you summarized it perfectly in four words "I hide my feelings"
In fact your statement convinces me that the thread would be better worded " how do i hide my feelings and why do i hide my feelings"
I also feel that my previous solution "using no defences and defending nothing about self" is even more vital when described as " i know why i want to hide my feelings....i know how i do that .....but I am not going to"
It is like "I am not scared to show you who I REALLY am". Now that .....i feel ....is powerful .....and i would be very drawn to such a person.
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| What defences do you have and what are you defending?
Posted: 7/25/2008 4:34:38 PM | I like that: " A work in progress"
The older I get .. the more new adventures I want to explore.
BUT
Too many times I get looks from friends and family who have the never to question why I do the things I do?
The same people who preached to me time and again about being your own person and never giving up your dreams
This from the exact same people who use the phrase
What you eat don't make me fat | |
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| What defences do you have and what are you defending?
Posted: 7/25/2008 4:43:28 PM | When you talk about "We, you, they, us or humanity" it suggests to me you might be defending something. LOL
LOL, goodness OP ~ that's interesting since the bulk of post one is about you. 
~OT~ I have taken an extensive journey of self, completely re-invented who I am today versus who I once was. Tomorrow, it's likely I'll be different than today. Along this journey, I learned one very important thing: who I have become needs no explanation. Who I hope to become doesn't require explaining/defending/opining about/etc. This makes it exceptionally difficult to forge inter-personal relationships, but I was willing to lose most of those in order to have the ultimate comfort: I am now ME. Those in my life today ~ are on the same path that I'm on, so they "get it" and for the most part, and they seem to "get" me. As for defending theories, ideas, thoughts on issues, etc., I don't think it's healthy at all to feel nothing but apathy (is that an oxymoron or a double-negative???) ~ but that's just me. It's personal preference, just like anything else in life.  | |
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| What defences do you have and what are you defending?
Posted: 7/26/2008 12:22:48 AM |
Does anyone know what i am talking about? If you do and want to share your experience then there is only one requirement ........keep it in the first person....it is far more powerful for me.
Absolutely. Been there. Gone through it and now out the other end and I have to say, it's great out there now. It's like having a heavy weight lifted from your shoulders. Where do those fears and doubts come from? I'd venture a guess (well, more than that really) that it all stems from our upbringing and I firmly believe it takes some serious guided therapy to get at it and finally "get it". It also requires a great deal of wisdom and insight to even realize the problem isn't with "them".
But that's only half the battle. Then you first have to accept what you've learned as a completely new reality. Next to have to integrate that new info into your daily living. It's been my experience that that's the toughest part. It's like learning a new and unfamiliar dance step in that it won't "feel" normal doing it. Don't expect to. It won't feel right but only because you're not used to it. It's like tennis or anything else, you have to practice practice practice. But once you do, the lights really do go on and you don't give it a second thought. End of story. | |
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| What defences do you have and what are you defending?
Posted: 7/26/2008 1:23:36 AM | I think I know what your taking about....it's take a lot of energy to get where you are today ......when other's ...it just falls into place. Going through life is a struggle while others get it all on a silver platter and life is a but a bowl full of f cherrys.
We on the other hand have to sit in a chair full of bowlies and all there is ..is the pits | |
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| What defences do you have and what are you defending?
Posted: 7/26/2008 3:55:54 AM |
When defense mechanisms do their job they allow people to pay attention to possible dangers and devise the best course of action.
Here is how one dictionary defines defense mechanisms:
"Psychological forces which prevent undesirable or inappropriate impulses from entering consciousness..."
I've reached the stage in life --- if you can call it that --- that it is fine to recognize and feel impulses, but it might be wise to resist them because not resisting them could be damaging to me or to someone else or to a relationship.
So my advice to any person is to feel the impulse because feeling the impulse is part of who you really are, but be careful the impulse does not get the best of you and that you get the mastery over it. | |
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| What defences do you have and what are you defending?
Posted: 7/26/2008 4:41:45 AM | i was until a few years ago my worse enemy
i critiqued everything i did thus preventing me from making any real progress in terms of achieving my goals in life.
introspection however, has allowed me to differentiate - living in the past and learning from the past. while i've identified the former as disempowering, the latter has allowed me to make guided choices that will contribute to my general wellbeing. | |
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