| The talk
Posted: 7/25/2008 3:59:01 PM | If you're telling me that a girl leaning in and going for a kiss on a first date means that I'm signing my life away, then I'm telling you that you're nuts.
Well, no one cares what you do; it's just a question.  But the mere fact you refer to it as signing your life away is enough; firstly, how would you like that attitude if it was the girl saying it to you (so flattering), and secondly, well, she is as well. The wording leaves something to be desired, but I still wouldn't have it any other way. Neither would a lot of people in this thread, it seems.
How can a person be expected to adhere to a contract if he doesn't even know he has entered one? How can he possibly know what the terms of that contract are? How can he be given shit for breaking it when he didn't even know it existed?
This was all common sense 20 years ago. That people can be so clueless is just a sign of the times I guess. : / | |
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| The talk
Posted: 7/25/2008 4:57:47 PM | Gee Urbana, I wish I lived on your planet! It's really confusing over here on Earth.
I was hoping for some clarity here, and I'm getting nowhere.
I guess I'll just continue to worry until I'm brave enough to bring up "the talk." Of course, I STILL have no idea when it's appropriate to have that conversation, if ever.
I am so bad at this whole dating thing.
Where's the I'm-going-nuts smiley when you need him? | |
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| The talk
Posted: 7/25/2008 5:11:44 PM | I think the going nuts smiley is 33. 
Yeah. So just put :pickles33: but without the pickles. | |
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| The talk
Posted: 7/25/2008 5:31:55 PM | ^^^ "I was hoping for some clarity here, and I'm getting nowhere.
I guess I'll just continue to worry until I'm brave enough to bring up "the talk." Of course, I STILL have no idea when it's appropriate to have that conversation, if ever.
I am so bad at this whole dating thing"
OP, actually, I believe IQF was pretty close in Msg. #15. I think it is kind of a 'new' thing....or at least has evolved since we were maturing. I mean, the closest I ever got to having "The Talk", was in 6th grade with the last 'check yes or no' note. No wait, I did actually ask someone to 'go steady' when I was in high school. Okay, maybe it is a damned American thing.
Hot dogs, apple pie, Chevrolet and The Talk.
~ds~ | |
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| The talk
Posted: 7/25/2008 5:40:32 PM | That's it! I'm moving to Europe!  | |
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| The talk
Posted: 7/25/2008 7:49:08 PM | There is nothing wrong with "the talk." I view it as a "good thing" showing a little maturity. To refer to it as "the talk" is somewhat misleading... I would expect many aspects of "the talk" to have already been covered in various other "talks" before you hop in bed together. I would expect "the talk" to consist of one or more of the following topics:
Birth Control plans
Sexual History (ie.: what is the level of risk from possible STDs, etc.)
Expectations of Exclusivity
Intimacy Level
Ideally you would have this "talk" before sleeping together. (That way if one of you just wants to get laid without any exclusivity the other has the chance to "bail out" before getting too involved.) As pointed out elsewhere, without honesty, the talk would be pointless anyway...
There could also be other "triggers" for the talk such as someone wanting to date exclusively without having reached a stage of sexual intimacy, someone who has problems with intimacy but still wants to date exclusively, someone who has been dating without sexual intimacy who is getting tired of waiting, someone who has HIV/herpes or something like that who wants to let someone know what they are getting into before they are too emotionally committed, disclosing infertility, impotence, cancer, etc. could also fall under the wide umbrella of "the talk."
Fundamentally "the talk" just means being very clear about your expectations, intentions, and limitations and communicating them. The more clear the communication the less potential for misunderstanding later...
I have had "the talk" with the gal I'm dating (about 6 months ago) She is aware that I still participate in the POF forums and continue to maintain communication with several friends I have made here. (She is ok with it) In our "talk" we agreed that we would function monogamously but were not obligated to do so. (We did commit to immediately disclosing any change from than norm though...) So far I have not had any reason to explore that freedom... (Aspects of an "open relationship" appeal to me but this is about as close to that as I want to get...) | |
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| The talk
Posted: 7/25/2008 8:17:10 PM | ^^^ Geezus....why don't they just put a form on the internet and you can cross it off as you go? Is this really what we've been reduced to? Sad.
~ds~ | |
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| The talk
Posted: 7/25/2008 8:52:39 PM | "The talk" must be something uniquely American, and I can't even begin to think about how ridiculous I find that
Clearly...we come from the same planet.
Its called the Earth minus America.
Ummm...Point of Order! I have lived in America for a couple of years ...maybe 52 or so,
and i have never had "The Talk" . I may have a vague idea of what it means, but i consider it
just one more inane idea about mating / dating / masticating that i have run into on the Forums
that some folks think All Folks know about, agree on, and follow. There are so many things talked about here that "Everyone Knows" that i consider utter BS. I would wager that a thread asking people
WHAT "The Talk" actually entailed would get many varied and contradictory answers.... just
from Americans.
Please remember , there is no Third Date Rule, not all Americans Love Jebus,
we are not all presented with our first Flag Pin at birth nor are we
expected to wear it during sex, and many, MANY of us think that
a "Burning Bush" is not just a story from that book found in
many motel rooms , but also a great way to deal with a certain Ex Governor
come January 2009. | |
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| The talk
Posted: 7/26/2008 1:15:15 AM | I don't think "the talk" is new. But I do think "the trendy label" is new.
Back in the 1970s, people would "play the field", dating many different potential partners before having a discussion about "going steady".
I noticed after AIDS became a big thing, under 20s would talk about dating someone and it was always dating exclusively. It seemed all dating was "going steady".
A discussion like "the talk" probably originated back to when we started "playing the field" and having "love marriages" instead of arranged marriages.
(The idea of "playing the field" was to date many people in hopes that: (1) it would exhaust curiosity, (2) it would improve the chances of finding someone suitable for a lifelong monogamous relationship. History tells us it only works 2/3 of the time.) | |
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| The talk
Posted: 7/26/2008 1:27:07 AM | Esad, great post.
If you're ever traveling overseas, just ask and I'll be happy to send you a Canadian flag pin. | |
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| The talk
Posted: 7/26/2008 1:33:14 AM |
You wanna date me? see me? get to know me?
You AINT seeing anyone else.
That's what I'm talking about, and if that goes well, then...
It's the kiss on the mouth that seals the deal | |
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| The talk
Posted: 7/26/2008 7:22:01 AM | So what comes after "the talk"? "the walk", "the meal","the drive","the movie","the visit","the swim" "the vacation" ,"the barbecue","the bicycle ride","the trip to the zoo"?
Come on. | |
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| The talk
Posted: 7/26/2008 8:49:19 AM | Back on my planet you are "automatically" exclusive as soon as you start to - literally - get into each other's face: It's the kiss on the mouth that seals the deal, and I like that kind of "lip service" much, much better than some words that might bare the risk of misunderstandings
I totally agree with this. However I've heard "well, we weren't "going out"/boyfriend-girlfriend/ exclusive" a few times. So unfortunately sometimes you need "the talk" to make sure you're not wasting your time and setting yourself up for std's etc.
Hell, if i'm going to invest the time and effort i want some kind of reassurrance that the other person is in at the same level of commitment. It can be so small, just as long as there's some acknowledgement of "you and me are a team now." | |
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| The talk
Posted: 7/29/2008 3:14:10 PM |
This was all common sense 20 years ago. That people can be so clueless is just a sign of the times I guess. : /
So, what? Dating doesn't exist to you people? Dating is automatically transformed to feaux marriage as soon as you kiss someone? Sheesh!
This isn't some old timey thing either. My own mother is very proud to report that she was dating 5 guys at the same time in high school. This would have been the 60's, which was almost 50 years ago.
If she had had the insane ideas you kids have (which came from Lord knows where), then she would have been feaux betrothed to all of them? Very interesting.
So please explain to me what dating means to you, one kiss and you're committed for lifers. What if SHE plants one on you? Are you committed for life? Do you get to file a grievance with the divorce court saying you didn't know it was coming and didn't consent to the kiss that sealed your life away forever? LMAO, you people are seriously killing me. | |
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| The talk
Posted: 7/29/2008 4:37:52 PM |
The Talk is a fairly new thing I think.
Ya I agree...In my first contact days on POF I would stay faithful during the waiting for a reply period. Who would start the talk? | |
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| The talk
Posted: 7/29/2008 4:48:21 PM | OP,
I think women and men have different time clocks when it comes to having the talk.
In my opinion some men don't want to have the talk until either they are moving in with their significant other or we are ready to pop the question.
Most women don't want to wait as long as guys do and want to claim their man as soon as they can. | |
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| The talk
Posted: 7/29/2008 9:48:34 PM | No deal.
Unless you have had "the talk" about not being exclusive, you should assume you are exclusive after a handful of dates. It's my experience that most people don't take the relationship thing very casually even when they claim they are being casual, open, exploring, etc.
A lot of hurt feelings. If after a few dates you are not interested in a more exclusive relationship, then you should level with the person and at least say, "Hey, I ain't lookin to marry you, but you're fun to hang out with, and -- oh yeah! I would like to explore options besides you."
Truth is, you should stop dating if after several dates you just don't feel the odds of exclusive are ever going to be high. | |
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| The talk
Posted: 7/29/2008 9:57:21 PM | | you kiss someone and you're automaticaly exclusive? i must of had hundreds of girlfriends by your logic hahahaha.....That idea doesn't make any sense to me.........even in spain lots of guys go on dates kiss girls.....and it doesn't mean it's exclusive........don't know what countries you gals are from, but it's really strange to have that outlook on dating. | |
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| The talk
Posted: 7/29/2008 10:16:31 PM |
you haven't had "the talk," do you have reasons why you haven't?
I only found myself in such a situation once, and the 'talk' was followed by the 'walk' pretty quickly. One evening I met this woman who looked a bit like Catherine Zeta-Jones, and we had dinner and fireworks. A great evening altogether. Later she told me that she wanted to continue her dating, but since we were already intimate she would let me know, if anything serious came out of it. She just wanted to see what is out there. That put out the fireworks in my book, and I said my goodbye. The evening is still a great memory, but from a certain point on I expect a genuine attempt at getting to know each other. Seeing other people is not really a good way to make the other feel special.
The reason why I don't have the talk? I don't think it is necessary. Either you are serious or you are just screwing around. It is usually obvious a few dates into the budding relationship. | |
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| The talk
Posted: 7/29/2008 10:23:53 PM | I see more and more people defend other people's behaviour with "well, you haven't had the talk yet so he/she is free to see others" or "unless there is a ring on your finger, you can see whomever you want and it's no business of the guy you are currently seeing".
I think it's ridiculous the way people say "you have to have the talk". What? If I start to see someone and we make plans and are getting close and all that goes into a relationship I think it's completely out of line to expect a person to bring up "are we exclusive?" I think it's obvious that you are.
Unless you DON'T want to be exclusive you should talk to the person and make that clear but if you don't. It is taken for granted. That's my take on it.
The votes for "you have to have the talk" is simply excuses for allowing a person to both have the cake and eat it.
I find it interesting that it's mostly women who bring that up too. Why is that? Why can't people make up their minds about what they want? Why is it encouraged to not make a commitment? | |
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| The talk
Posted: 7/29/2008 10:56:27 PM |
what you did to prove he is not dependable was very shrewd.you depended on him to come through.he didnt.you can do this in many ways.if a person doesnt come through for you when you need them to,than they are not commited.
Or they're just a douche. Really that doesn't mean shit because even some committed people won't come through in a pinch sometimes, and some people who aren't committed actually *gasp* care.
Tough concept. | |
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| The talk
Posted: 7/29/2008 10:58:18 PM | | Also I just wanna say that topics like these really want to make me just say eff people and be single forever. Doesn't seem worth the bullshit. | |
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| The talk
Posted: 7/30/2008 2:28:09 AM | | I've almost never had that talk. I assume it if I'm going on a second date. | |
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Posted: 7/30/2008 3:22:18 AM | Ohhhhhh...how I do love a damm good when a person can't make up their mind between being another bedwarmer or REAL.
If the woman doesn't care then why should the man????? If you're just wanting dating then you've got to expect the man to do as he pleases to keep the options open til she shows she's worth it and commands it.
If you're both looking for long-term then there's no reason for "the talk" because both are past the party stage and ready for the 'real' life. BUT unfortunately you've still gotta heed the red flags somewhat....comes with the territory after a person has so many relationships, flings, etc that they can fall back on. | |
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| The talk
Posted: 7/30/2008 7:49:16 AM |
If I start to see someone and we make plans and are getting close and all that goes into a relationship I think it's completely out of line to expect a person to bring up "are we exclusive?" I think it's obvious that you are.
Unless you DON'T want to be exclusive you should talk to the person and make that clear but if you don't. It is taken for granted. That's my take on it.
The votes for "you have to have the talk" is simply excuses for allowing a person to both have the cake and eat it.
I think you're missing the point a bit. Not having the talk doesn't mean one person selfishly screws around and has a blast while the other sits at home weeping and pining for his or her significant other. The point is . . . there is no exclusivity until you agree on exclusivity. BOTH parties can do whatever they please. If it is the case that one of the two has DIFFERENT feelings, than the talk MUST be had. I think many of you who "just assume" would be very surprised to find out that because you haven't had the talk . . . there was no exclusivity and he (or she) was enjoying the fruits of other women/men without your knowledge.
I think that the "just assume" position lends itself to heartache and bad juju. Think about it: if you are ready to be BF/GF BEFORE YOU EVEN KNOW EACH OTHER just because you've kissed, or "gotten close" or been intimate or whatever, than you will just break up because you don't know each other well enough to know whether or not you would work out long-term. I think it makes far more sense to date A LOT of people, get to know a lot of different personalities and found out what you want in a mate. If you are always jumping into a relationship just because you've kissed someone, than you'll either stay in a relationship you should never have been in in the first place, or you'll just dump and move on. Now, I ask you kissing = betrothed for lifers, which is better for the psyche:
1. dating lots of people without exclusivity and waiting a long time to get to know someone and making a decision that that person has long-term potential before you enter a relationship with them; or
2. jumping into a relationship because your d!ck wouldn't let you avoid the kiss at the end of the first date, finding out on the 4th date that the gal reminds you WAY too much of an ex and deciding it isn't going to work out AFTER you are already "together" and then breaking up with her (and stomping her heart out on the ground?)?
You decide.
Personally, I don't think going on a second date with someone should imply anything at all but the fact that the first one was good. | |
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