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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 7/31/2008 1:16:56 PM | I would say, "yes", absolutely!
Brandie46 and Obsidian 71 make VERY VALID observations! I have seen, firsthand, the death and devastation in the African-American community caused by HIV/AIDS, particularly among young African-American women!
There are two other groups of of African-American women are also "at risk", and they are black women, ages 45+, who are marrying men who are coming out of prisons, and are HIV positive, and black women who are in MONOGOMOUS (so they believe) relationships with black men who are "on the downlow." So, the inferences that have been made here by non-black people, that African-American are sexually more promiscuous than white women are not accurate, and, in my opinion, somewhat "racist."
Couple these three groups of women with the belief in the black community that using protection is tantamount to genocide, and with the attitude of black clergy that we should not teach our young women about HIV/AIDS, and you have a recipe for disaster! I have personally known at least seven black women who have died from HIV/AIDS in the last few years (almost one a year), and NONE of those women were promiscuous! | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 7/31/2008 1:28:48 PM | ^^^^^What, in your opinion is the best way to reverse this trend if things are as you describe:
Couple these three groups of women with the belief in the black community that using protection is tantamount to genocide, and with the attitude of black clergy that we should not teach our young women about HIV/AIDS, and you have a recipe for disaster!
A similar debate has been ongoing in white religious communities that teach abstinence as well, but as they are usually not as close knit or dealing with the same incidences of poverty/iv drug use, the irony is not as apparent that a mistaken belief in "monogomy" spreads the disease much faster than a precautionary use of condoms. | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 7/31/2008 1:36:57 PM | Let face it Aides is becoming a big problem amongst the black community but don't put it off like it's only blacks that get aides. Their are plenty other races that have aides as well. No matter what happens "us black women will be here." Just like they have good and bad people of all kind so their are of black people. Just because some African Americans may get aides does not mean that all us will or that all of us are dumb and incompentent of knowing right from wrong or what we need to do.
Just because you are poor or have some lack of education does not always mean it will lead you to the road of aides. Their are plenty of people who came from worst and turned things around. Surely there is darkness in many places but there is always a shining light to guide someone out of the darkness if they are looking for it.
Being black does not make us a victim as people try to make it seems. We are not just black but we are also human. No human being is safe from aides or death or getting sick. And instead of always focusing on the negative for a change how about trying to focuse on ways of empowers black women or others. | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 7/31/2008 1:48:24 PM |
Just because you are poor or have some lack of education does not always mean it will lead you to the road of aides. Their are plenty of people who came from worst and turned things around. Surely there is darkness in many places but there is always a shining light to guide someone out of the darkness if they are looking for it.
on an individual level, I agree. All people should recognize this potential in themselves. However, one error in judgment can lead to a life long disease for people who live in areas where Aids is prevailent. They may not even know they live in such an area!
So, regardless of what color people in such areas are, efforts need to be increased. Statistics show that currently, blacks are affected disproportionately. In 20 years, if the densest areas of HIV infection change in racial make up, they should still be addressed with increased attention. | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 7/31/2008 3:57:37 PM |
on an individual level, I agree. All people should recognize this potential in themselves. However, one error in judgment can lead to a life long disease for people who live in areas where Aids is prevailent. They may not even know they live in such an area!
So, regardless of what color people in such areas are, efforts need to be increased. Statistics show that currently, blacks are affected disproportionately. In 20 years, if the densest areas of HIV infection change in racial make up, they should still be addressed with increased attention.
Here is where it gets touchy, because the legacy of oppression means that any efforts from the mainstream population to "help," can come across as condescending or worse--genocidal. So, the very thing we know will help keep Black women _and_ men healthy enough to raise empowered children is viewed as yet another attempt to keep them down.
Cultures of failure don't just happen because people are lazy. They come from histories of adversity. It is so very easy to jump to a wrong conclusion when one is in pain, and the need for consolation is so great that people in despair will turn to turn to sexual gratification for comfort when all else fails.
Honoring the dignity of a person who does not realize they have it is just as important as informing them about the changes in behavior they need to make to save their lives. | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 7/31/2008 4:21:17 PM | Yes Ace,
I think this is exactly the type of thing people (black and white) need to be less sensitive about. The whole romanticised notion of poor people pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps only works once drug addiction, crime and disease are taken out of the equation, and these are government issues that need to be addressed by the numbers. | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 7/31/2008 4:40:26 PM | Actually, it's something that would-be rescuers need to be _more_ sensitive about. Otherwise, it only adds insult to injury. If we're only encouraging members of a target group to use condoms in order to keep ourselves safe from the diseases that they might spread as a side-effect of propagating "their" genes, their criticism is correct.
The intent of it _is_ genocidal, though perhaps not directly.
You simply can't ask someone whose great-grandparents were slaves, whose grandparents were sharecroppers living under Jim Crow, whose parents had to fight for the right to be served food in a restaurant like a human being and live in terror of the Klan, and who now finds herself or himself in the ghetto, to respond the same way as someone who grew up in Leave-It-To-Beaver land. About the only thing that people with such divergent backgrounds have in common is that they're members of the same specie.
So ... when moving from the world you're familiar with into the one that you're not, people of both backgrounds need to be clear that the only slight is an _intentional_ slight. And no, not everyone recogizes that. | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 7/31/2008 4:44:15 PM | At the same time, 9% of the population doesn't have the votes to effect a change and bring more money into their poor communities for programs.
And the other 91% of the population views this as not their problem. | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 8/1/2008 4:17:01 PM |
Brandie,
You said that people who have access to drugs are living? What evidence do you have of that? I am speeking specifically to the drug part, what proof do you have that pharmaceuticle drugs help people live longer, and quality lives?
Hardin9, I know that drugs help to prolong the lives of those infected because I've worked as a volunteer with AIDS/HIV infected people.
Also read the following articles...
July. 24, 2008 -WASHINGTON -****ails of HIV drugs help patients live an average of 13 years longer — if they are lucky enough to get them, researchers reported on Thursday http//www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25839901/
Drugs can prolong life for years
There is no cure or vaccine but the drugs, which interfere with HIV at several levels, can keep people healthy for years even if they never eradicate the virus. This means people must take them for life. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25482694/
@Chocolatebrowne...what you said is so true. Most of the women who I've met all contracted the disease while in monogamous relationships and other news articles also state that.
@chibibunny79 who said
No matter what happens "us black women will be here."
You're right about that...
Peace! | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 8/1/2008 4:48:32 PM | This isn't race related per se, but it does address your question, "Do you agree with her position, that young women in certain communities are being lead to their death by their emotions?"
I was once involved in some research projects that required me to listen to years of tapes of meetings of the National Abortion Federation, sort of a combination PR/lobbying/information exchange group for abortion providers.
In one session, nurses from inner-city clinics were lamenting that their patients were not abstaining from intercourse in the weeks immediately following their abortions. This brought with it a very high risk of potentially fatal pelvic infections, and a spectacularly increased risk of potentially-fatal STDs such as HIV/AIDS.
It wasn't that the women were not willing to abstain. It was their "partners". They not only insisted on having intercourse while the women were healing from their abortions, but they also refused to wear condoms. And these men were likely carriers of STDs and pathogens that could cause immediate pelvic infections, since typically they were also having unprotected sex with numerous other women in addition to the women who were recovering from abortions.
So, are young women in certain communities being led to their death by their emotions? Absolutely. Nobody is collecting data on how many of these young women are dying from post-abortion infections. (There is no system in place for reporting these deaths; the Centers for Disease Control only tally those brought to their attention by some fluke in the NCHS abstracting system or by a conscientious doctor or hospital official who forwards a death certificate on his or her own initiative.) The nurses clearly indicated that their abortion patients were not the only young women risking STDs through unprotected intercourse with this particular population of irresponsible men. I doubt that anybody is tallying what percentage of fatal HIV/AIDS and other STDs were contracted because the women in question were afraid to say "No" or even "Use a condom."
Those abortion patients, and the other women in their "partners'" lives, are risking their lives every day in exchange for the illusion of love. God alone knows how many of them are dying as a result. | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 8/1/2008 11:19:42 PM | acranger says: " It is becoming pathetic and sorry, the way the leftists on this board are silencing any opposition. Seems like the cold war Soviet Union. Hmmmm........ "
Tribalist Collectivism, Groupist type thinking is leftist. Individualist who don't lean on group or group think historically have been to the right. To say that "White people are facing the real danger of extinction sounds leftist and group dependent to me." Doesn't sound too individualistic to me. | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 8/2/2008 12:02:03 AM | | That's so sad to even have a post titled "are black women an endangered species"......it's not black women only it all women and men that think casual sex is going to bring anything but, big problems. And also statistically for men who are gay their hiv/aids rates are still higher than hetero-sexual w/m that engage with as many partners and as freuqently as there heterosexual counter parts. So any group of people that use sex as a toy or quick exchange are going to be the canidates on the hiv/aids list at a much much higher rate than anyone else. I think Black women need to take a stand and make there boyfriends wait until marriage and booty calls, they should be called death calls....you are possibly spreading: Genital warts, they grow and grow and spread, they have to be frozen off with dry ice medicines. You can look up pictures of genital warts...it looks like a califlower skin growth covering the vagina. Genital warts are called HPV. They also call the swelling and infection/cancer cell production in your uterus HPV....so there are 2 completely diff. HPV conditions. HPV in your uterus is hardly physically noticable but, it is eating away and destroying the tissue, you may get body rashes, low grade fevers,tummy swelling and it results in death eventually and permenantley losing the ability to have children. You have to get tested to find out and then in early detection you can be treated only, but like i said you don't have major clues to go on until you have cancer or destruction of your uterus. It doesn't effect men only women. Ther are many more diseases that should be taken as a sign from God that again; you should not give your body away unless you are married and in the a one on one relationship. It may seem like that day will never come but, I have learned to use the time I have being single to do school...and honestly once you start to get involved in educating yourself making the money you need as a woman.....you won't want a man soo much and better yourself! It's cool for a second and then kills you forever. Oh p.s all these diseases are spreadable to all you mucous membranes, eyes, anus, mouth.....fun? | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 8/2/2008 7:29:28 AM |
"For a lot of young black women, what's putting them at risk is emotion. Young women are going to men for security -- you're talking about a fatherless home and a girl looking for approval. That's the kind of thing that puts them at risk."
If this is the article I think it is. I don't think the rationale provided for participating in risky sex is any different than any other women who are unwed mothers. The article also seems to merely be an extension of the adequacy of health care debate. It also doesn't seem to offer any solutions citing reasons for an overall health issue that seems more to wedge a cultural dilemna than anything. | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 8/2/2008 3:13:06 PM | Maybe judging by the lack of interest in use by many men of prophylactics perhaps it is more pertinent to question are real men an endangered species. No glove no love my motto and even then have a test.
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/book_extracts/article4448371.ece | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 8/3/2008 1:24:39 AM | Any AIDS statistics are way skewed...
This is because things are set up so if anyone contracts an HIV virus and then dies of natural causes of any other sort, they're counted as an "AIDS victim".
There are MANY doctors who believe HIV doesn't even cause AIDS...
Magic Johnson contracted HIV over thirteen years ago. Why isn't HE dead?
The very person who discovered that viruses mutate also revealed that both researchers who claimed to have found a link between HIV and AIDs falsified lab results in their race to get recognition for the "discovery".
Many suspect that the very reason for the discovery was to market a drug called "AZT" which was sold for over $800 a month when this panic started, and if you couldn't pay it, the government would pay it for you. This is one way money leaked out of the US treasury into the tills of the drug companies.
Never mind that patients who had contracted HIV and were treated with AZT had a much higher death rate than those who didn't. It was what doctors prescribed because that's what they were told to do by the drug companies.
As a result of this "HIV-AIDS" link... many who actually die of Acquired Immune Defiency Syndrome are not even identified as such... and the real causes of that condition have not been properly researched or documented.
The federal research funding agencies have succesfully hounded and cut off funding to almost anyone who disagrees with that theory now... and many have left the country... including Peter Duesberg, who once offered to be dosed with HIV to prove it wasn't the cause..only under the condition that someone would fund the research for it.
Check this out:
http://www.duesberg.com/ | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 8/3/2008 6:21:48 AM | Re msg 40. Misinformation!
HIV is the biggest killer of black women! Heterosexual transmission affects receivers of bodily fluids more than those who supply them.
HIV stands for Human Immunodeficiency Virus
AIDS is Acquired Immuno(-)Deficiency Syndrome meaning HIV related/ opportunistic illness.
Yes, death by poverty (as Mbeko South Africa was quoted out of context), road accident leading to MRSA, thrush, Kaposi Sarcoma, pneumonia etc can kill because the immune system is compromised. Other illnesses or retroviruses like HIV eg cancers can also compromise the immune system.
Money, good lifestyle, healthy diet etc can help prevent maybe, sure.
Gay men (DINKs - dual income no kids) put a lot of money into researching HIV eg John Elton as they too realise they may become or already have been decimated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 8/4/2008 1:44:45 PM | Re msg 40. Misinformation!
I'd have to say that I tend to agree. I checked out Dr. Deusberg's web site briefly--just enoough to come to the conclusion that it simply is not credible. I know the difference between a factual statement and a speculation, and I found lots of conjecture but few or no facts. For example, a letter asking Dr. Deusberg to supply information about the meetings in which he alleges the government tried to bribe him to tone down his criticism is not the same as the answers to those questions.
I didn't bother going on much further because the rest of the site failed to account for the pandemic in Africa and the death toll in at-risk populations in the US. Nor did he adequately account for the emergence of Kaposi's sarcoma in only those patients who had unprotected sex vs. all the people who used poppers and other drugs that he neglects to name specifically but implies _could_ have been the cause.
When there are two theories, the one that provides a better account of known facts is the one I prefer, even if it isn't perfectly documented. Is the microbiology now clear and free of the early errors Deusberg cites? Even if it's not, the conventional theory is still better than his. I'm not sure his can be disproven. I think that it's HIV. | |
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Joined: 3/8/2008
Msg: 44 | |
| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 8/4/2008 5:38:48 PM | | Msg40, Magic J would be considered one of those (relatively rare) cases of what they call a LTNP (Long Term Non Progressor). With meds of course -- due to varying factors such as possibly genetics, frequencies of original exposures, viral load and even viral strain (some strains of it are just nastier than others) -- these people do not "progress" the way most people would after about a decade or so (or slightly less) of infection with the HIV. The writer Edmund White is another case like this. Infected in the early to mid-80's, with meds today he's still alive and evidently in fine health. Most people infected in the early to mid-80's died by the early to mid-90's. They don't really know why some people progress much quicker than others , while some rare few don't hardly progress at all (if well-treated). | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 8/4/2008 8:16:51 PM | Obviously misinformation about HIV/AIDS still exists......
- Know the facts about HIV/AIDS
- Know your status....get tested
- Know your partner's status
And speaking of Magic Johnson, here are links to his 'I Stand With Magic' program which is a campaign to address the issue of HIV/AIDS in the black community. Also, links to a couple of public service announcements that he and his wife Cookie did recently addressing the issue of AIDS/HIV and the black community.
Magic & Cookie Johnson Public Service Announcement on HIV/AIDS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrEupbKd274
Talk with your partners - I Stand with Magic AIDS Public Service Announcement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dwMsDg5-iY
I Stand with Magic Campaign
http://www.istandwithmagic.com/
AIDS Fact Sheet from the CDC
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 8/4/2008 10:55:23 PM |
Brandie46 and Obsidian 71 make VERY VALID observations! I have seen, firsthand, the death and devastation in the African-American community caused by HIV/AIDS, particularly among young African-American women!
There are two other groups of of African-American women are also "at risk", and they are black women, ages 45+, who are marrying men who are coming out of prisons, and are HIV positive, and black women who are in MONOGOMOUS (so they believe) relationships with black men who are "on the downlow." So, the inferences that have been made here by non-black people, that African-American are sexually more promiscuous than white women are not accurate, and, in my opinion, somewhat "racist."
Couple these three groups of women with the belief in the black community that using protection is tantamount to genocide, and with the attitude of black clergy that we should not teach our young women about HIV/AIDS, and you have a recipe for disaster! I have personally known at least seven black women who have died from HIV/AIDS in the last few years (almost one a year), and NONE of those women were promiscuous!
This is an issue I was not aware, so at least I am learning something from being on POF. All of what you say here, chocolatebrowne, makes sense and gives a broader and more complete picture about the issue than the original post. I wonder why the African-American clergy don't think young black women need to know more about HIV/AIDS. And I also wonder about Obsidion's comment that black community leaders are more concerned with the use of the 'n' word in music than this issue. What is your take on that and what do you think can be done? I believe that problems should be addressed from the cause, not putting bandaides on after the problem occurs. What needs to change to help solve this problem? I would think education is one key point, but how and when and where? | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 8/11/2008 10:56:23 PM | Ismene 1, the collective "African-American church/clergy" are conservative and somewhat repressed, especially in matters of sexuality. For as long as I can remember, the subjects of abortion, birth control, homosexuality, and sexuality in general, have been taboo in the African-American religious community. I believe that a large part of that is "fear of racism", i.e., "if we admit there is a problem, it will just give Caucasians and others even MORE REASON to behave toward our community in a racist fashion.
And there is general mistrust of the medical community by African-Americans in general. I've heard time and time again from EDUCATED black folks that they "don't believe what "white" doctors tell them, because they truly believe that there is a "vast conspiracy" to rid the world of people of African descent......and many older African-Americans (and some of us young ens, too) remember the infamous Tuskeegee Experiment that went on for 40 years (1932-1972) where black men were deliberately infected with syphyllis.
And I, myself, at times wonder if the AIDS virus has not been deliberately mutated so that it effects African-Americans, particularly women, disproportionately. After all, if you want to eradicate a race of people, what better way to do it than to kill off the women -- the childbearers?
And I do believe that if HIV/AIDS affected white women the way it does black women, it would be declared a national health emergency. | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 8/11/2008 11:06:47 PM | Chocolatebrowne
I agree. Didn't the coverage of Elizabeth Smart or Natalie Holloway generate more buzz than the horror that's going on right now with HIV and black women? I just watched CNN's Black in America series and my jaw hit the floor when I found out the number of HIV cases in Washington DC. %5 of the DC inhabitants have HIV with %80 of that coming directly from within the black community.
I'm just absolutely furious that our so called "Black Leaders" have not made a huge stink about this.
As far as fueling racism I've already seen it here and other sites. Well maybe not racism per se but the kind of "tsk tsk ....HIV is high in the black community, you sure you wanna date that black woman/man?" or the college kid that called Baltimore an "HIV pit" on another site.
Where is the second coming of Malcom X when you need him?
O | |
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 8/11/2008 11:13:10 PM | Ismene 1, the collective "African-American church/clergy" are conservative and somewhat repressed, especially in matters of sexuality. For as long as I can remember, the subjects of abortion, birth control, homosexuality, and sexuality in general, have been taboo in the African-American religious community. I believe that a large part of that is "fear of racism", i.e., "if we admit there is a problem, it will just give Caucasians and others even MORE REASON to behave toward our community in a racist fashion.
And there is general mistrust of the medical community by African-Americans in general. I've heard time and time again from EDUCATED black folks that they "don't believe what "white" doctors tell them, because they truly believe that there is a "vast conspiracy" to rid the world of people of African descent......and many older African-Americans (and some of us young ens, too) remember the infamous Tuskegee Experiment that went on for 40 years (1932-1972) where black men were deliberately infected with syphilis.
And I, myself, at times wonder if the AIDS virus has not been deliberately mutated so that it affects African-Americans, particularly women, disproportionately. After all, if you want to eradicate a race of people, what better way to do it than to kill off the women -- the child bearers?
And I do believe that if HIV/AIDS affected white women the way it does black women, it would be declared a national health emergency.
Very interesting stuff, chocolatebrowne. First, I think this, "I believe that a large part of that is "fear of racism", i.e., "if we admit there is a problem, it will just give Caucasians and others even MORE REASON to behave toward our community in a racist fashion.” is a very insightful point and seems a reasonable inference to me. While xenophobia around the world has decreased to a large extent, I have to admit it often seems like it is in many instances only cosmetic, superficial. Where I live in Austria, extremely Politically Correct Austria, they still have deep underlying dislike of Germans and now the Turkish immigrants. And they don't hesitate to express it, but of course it is the Turkish peoples' fault or the Germans' fault, and they don't even realize they are making sweeping generalizations about a whole culture of people. At the same time they don't hesitate to criticize America for its problems with racism. Go figure. So, I think there is some justice to the idea that the vast American public and the media would find some way to make sweeping generalizations about the black community based on this health issue.
I know about the Tuskegee Experiment. I do believe that kind of thing is no longer possible, however, and I am one who is very reluctant to believe in any kind of conspiracy theory in any context. Mistrust of the medical community? Then why not go to a black doctor? I have experienced and found a lack of faith in the medical community when it comes to the elderly, when I was helping my parents in the final years of their lives. Some doctors just don't make the effort with old people, don't tell them the truth or all the truth, and don't tell their relatives the truth or all of it because it is all too much trouble, it seems, as the old folks are going to die any. But, I don't think all doctors are like that or that the entire medical community is like that.
Good post. Thanks for the information and the response.
Where is the second coming of Malcom X when you need him?
Obsidian, sometimes you say just the right thing!!
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| Are black women an endangered species?
Posted: 8/12/2008 9:58:44 PM | | chibibunny I liked what you had to share! I'm a white woman, I've lost someone I know to aides and know another one who currently has it. I do not live in poverty, and believe it's a tragedy for all. Sometimes it's upsetting to me that people find reasons to be victims. We all at times use poor judgements and sometimes the price is high. I've been discriminated against because I"m heavier and because I"m a woman in the workplace. I don't allow it to get me down...it's the way life seems to be ... unfair to all of us at times. We learn lessons and with all experiences we have the opportunity to grow within ourselves. So true that we are all human and deserve good...but instead of focusing on our differences....if each of us spent a little bit more time spreading love around...to all walks of life, regardless of gender, race, religion, etc....overall we would live in a better place. I know so many beautiful black women as people...who in no way are victims, very responsible for their choices...and don't feel endangered or a higher risk for aides. | |
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