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Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it ha      Mod Threads Home login  
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 Author Thread: Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
 Ready4SomethingFun

Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 376
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Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/20/2009 12:11:21 AM

It's not corporate taxes that are causing jobs to move overseas.


Damn these liars!!!



http://www.eagleforum.org/column/2007/may07/07-05-02.html


The combination of avoiding U.S. corporate taxes and having Chinese taxes rebated (forgiven) will help DaimlerChrysler to sell new cars in the United States much cheaper than any it can manufacture in Detroit.


http://www.sodahead.com/question/174689/are-you-concerned-about-america-companies-moving-jobs-overseas/


Why are we losing jobs? Because the costs of operating a corporation in the United State is so high that the company cannot continue to make a profit. Several factors are cited, but one of the biggest is the high cost of U.S. corporate taxes rates.


If the corporate taxes are not the issue why are U.S. corporations shoving an estimated 13 trillion dollars (according to Miller-McCune.com) in overseas tax havens?


In fact the places jobs are moving to have higher corporate taxes.


Really?


http://www.reason.com/news/show/134478.html


The U.S. corporate tax rate is simply too high. When you add state corporate taxes to the 35 percent federal rate, you arrive at a whopping 40 percent average corporate tax burden, the second highest among the 30 countries in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD).


From a sister site to Real Clear Politics, a site many here often point to as an unbiased source:


http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2009/05/obama_gets_tax_policy_backward.html



Economists are in broad agreement that cutting the corporate rate is a national priority. In a 2002 study, American Enterprise Institute economists Kevin Hassett and Eric Engen argued that the most efficient corporate tax rate is zero. The mobility of capital income means that even a small amount of tax introduces large distortions into an economy as capital flies away to a lower tax environment. More interesting, if counterintuitive, is the fact that because of capital mobility the people who stand to benefit most from a corporate tax cut are workers. In a 2006 study, the economist William C. Randolph of the Congressional Budget Office concluded that “domestic labor bears slightly more than 70 percent of the burden” imposed by corporate taxes.

And so, instead of cutting our corporate tax rate, the second highest among developed countries, to bring it in line with the rest of the world, or treating overseas profits in the same manner as most other developed nations which generally don’t tax overseas earnings, the Obama administration will make our corporate tax code more onerous.




So explain to me how lowering the tax rate will incentivize GE to fire up the factories in America again.


I'm stumped. If all these big time economists are wrong, I guess that circle of true believers are living in a pipe dream. I guess the rest of the world is wrong too. They are all cutting corporate taxes as well.
 HalftimeDad

Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 377
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Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/20/2009 7:11:03 AM
You've pointed me to (well funded) right wing think tanks and economic institutes that say "cut corporate taxes." That doesn't shock me. We have one here too: the Fraser Institute. If you and I got together tomorrow and decided to set up one of these things we'd find that we had corporate donors knocking on our door and lots of media asking for our opinions.

But you may have noticed that their arguments really don't tell you why GE is going to fire up American factories if corporate taxes are lowered. It's kind of a faith-based thing on their part.
 Ready4SomethingFun

Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 378
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Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/20/2009 3:08:40 PM
I really don't know the origin of all the few sites I chose out of about 120,000 that popped when I googled "cut corporate taxes" (or something to that effect) except I do know that "real clear" is a site that the lefties here often site to prove their points. Now that they made a statement that in your eyes is "Clearly right wing" they have suddenly become a (well funded) right wing think tank?

I really didn't see the GE arguement addressed specifically, so I can't comment honestly about them. But in my opinion it is worth a try to do anything to get jobs back in the country. If the government has to suffer a little in the process, tough, they are supposed to do what's best for the majority of the people, not themselves, or only the unfortunate of this country. And the majority in this country is saying jobs are a huge issue, being that 10+ percent are unemployed right now. I would think it would be in our best interest to at least try it.

And since it is the thread theme, I think that shipping illegals back to their countries of origin would be in our best interest too. To many of those unemployed that are going to be without benefits soon, 8.00 an hour is starting to look better than nothing. The store I manage put a part time help wanted sign out recently and we got over 100 applications in 2 days. We had people begging for that 7.25 an hour job, literally. It is really sad to see that when we could very easily open up at least a few million jobs for our own citizens, that they WOULD work and would be better than the "homeless and starving" option that is bearing down on many right now.

In both scenarios maintaining the status quo is not helping one little bit.
 tranquilo123

Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 379
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Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/21/2009 9:23:09 AM

And since it is the thread theme, I think that shipping illegals back to their countries of origin would be in our best interest too. To many of those unemployed that are going to be without benefits soon, 8.00 an hour is starting to look better than nothing. The store I manage put a part time help wanted sign out recently and we got over 100 applications in 2 days. We had people begging for that 7.25 an hour job, literally. It is really sad to see that when we could very easily open up at least a few million jobs for our own citizens, that they WOULD work and would be better than the "homeless and starving" option that is bearing down on many right now.


Somehow in the back of my mind I have a doubt related to the sincerity of this type of post.

I have a hard time believing that someone who is blaming the "illegals" for all the troubles that the country is now having, would truly have a concern for the best interest of his fellow Americans.

Here are the reasons for my doubt. If your thinking is that all the troubles in the economy will disappear because, if and when all the "illegals" are deported, all the unemployed Americans will have jobs, and then they will not have to avail themselves of the "homeless and starving option," then you need to start thinking long and hard about the effect that the deportation of millions of workers and consumers will have on the economy. It is hard to imagine all the "un-intended" consequences that such policy may have. Some industries may very well collapse, and many businesses may have to further down-size when they lose their customers.

On the other hand, at the present time employers like you, who say that you care for your fellow Americans while bashing on the "illegals," don't seem to have a problem offering jobs at, or below, the poverty line rates. If you are trying to say that you want the "illegals" deported so that unemployed Americans will have a chance to get jobs at a higher pay than the $7.25 that you are now paying, then why don't you start offering higher pay and require proof of citizenship or legal residency. That is not an illegal action on the part of the employer. Heck, you might even advertise it with big letters on the front window of your store: HELP WANTED--- $15.00/hour---CITIZENS OR LEGAL RESIDENTS ONLY---APPLY INSIDE. I bet that you will be in the local news the same day, and in the national news soon after. I am guessing that your store may get a lot traffic for a while, but I can't promise you that you will always be that successful.

That would show to me that you really care for your fellow Americans, and besides the higher pay you could offer them health and dental benefits at rates that they can afford.
 Ready4SomethingFun

Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 380
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Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/21/2009 12:40:38 PM

Somehow in the back of my mind I have a doubt related to the sincerity of this type of post.


Somehow in the back of my mind, I thought you might.


I have a hard time believing that someone who is blaming the "illegals" for all the troubles that the country is now having, would truly have a concern for the best interest of his fellow Americans.


Fair enough, and if you read the previous two posts, and several of my earlier ones, you would know I do not lay full blame on illegals. I also lay blame on those who employ illegals (remember you pushed me to state it outright, even though I never denied it?), and I also blame companies moving overseas.


If your thinking is that all the troubles in the economy will disappear because, if and when all the "illegals" are deported, all the unemployed Americans will have jobs, and then they will not have to avail themselves of the "homeless and starving option," then you need to start thinking long and hard about the effect that the deportation of millions of workers and consumers will have on the economy. It is hard to imagine all the "un-intended" consequences that such policy may have. Some industries may very well collapse, and many businesses may have to further down-size when they lose their customers.


Specific examples, or is this all speculation? My take on the above series of statements is first, the effect on illegals is not my main concern, the people of my country are, the illegals should not be here, regardless of what brought them, retained them or otherwise.

It really is hard to imagine any "un-intended" consequences that would be negative. The industries could avoid collapse by immediately hiring Americans to do the jobs the illegals were doing. What you aren't grasping is that now, Americans are willing to work for 8.00 an hour, and they are eager to fill positions almost anywhere at any time.

How would any more customers be lost be deporting illegals and putting Americans to work than are being lost due to Americans not working and having no money to spend? Yeah, items specifically sold to illegals might lose a few customers but since most the money they earn goes back to the motherland, I don't the economy taking a huge hit as the trade off will be more money circulating in our economy.



employers like you, who say that you care for your fellow Americans while bashing on the "illegals," don't seem to have a problem offering jobs at, or below, the poverty line rates. If you are trying to say that you want the "illegals" deported so that unemployed Americans will have a chance to get jobs at a higher pay than the $7.25 that you are now paying, then why don't you start offering higher pay and require proof of citizenship or legal residency.


First off, we do only employ legal American workers and require proof before hire, I wouldn't work here otherwise. The jobs we offer are meant to be for high school/college people and second jobs for those needed a little extra income, they weren't designed for career moves. And by the way we move people up to around 9.00 and hour after we get them trained, but that is neither here nor there in the arguement. Why not request the same thing from Wal Mart and McDonalds, I think they might hire a few more folks than we do anyway, and I'd be behind you 150% in that endeavor. My store is a mom and pop, not a chain, we keep a staff of between 12-15 people and we have to be very competitive to make very little. We pay better than the corporate chain stores in the area. And we do offer health insurance.


That would show to me that you really care for your fellow Americans


No it wouldn't. Because I think the best thing for America is to rid itself of illegal aliens and all the burdens they cause our country. And you think that I am wrong and uncaring for thinking that way.
 cashu

Joined: 1/25/2009
Msg: 381
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Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/28/2009 10:22:34 PM
hey I want to deport the euros to . the ones that are coming over in the last
60 years aren't worth having . Telling every one how terrible this place is and how they come over an presume to know all the history of this country . They say we stole this place but when you ask them if that is so , what are you doing here you got some land in your back pocket .. and I want the Canadians gone to.
so much for the RACE CARD huh .
 angelsands

Joined: 9/17/2005
Msg: 382
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Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/29/2009 2:33:40 PM
Thank You Mr cashu... I think is just fair to do what you propose. I work at a company where they are IN NEED of people who are Americans or residents. In the state that I live at, the unemployment rate is high.. and the company that I work for, pays good wages, and noone has to be a rocket scientist to do the work. BUT THE COMPANY (AS WELL AS MANY OTHERS IN THE STATE THAT I LIVE AT) IS HAVING A VERY HARD TIME TO FIND PEOPLE WHO WANT TO WORK.... !!! Because they prefer to have the benefits the goverment is offering... And it makes me wonder WHERE are all those "citizens" Mr. ready claims that are willing to work the kind of work that the "illegals" are doing. And I repeat... These companies PAY VERY WELL... !!!
 Ready4SomethingFun

Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 383
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Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/30/2009 12:01:02 AM

And it makes me wonder WHERE are all those "citizens" Mr. ready claims that are willing to work the kind of work that the "illegals" are doing. And I repeat... These companies PAY VERY WELL... !!!


Show me where the jobs are, and I'll send the people to fill them. So will Detroit, so will Cincinnati, so will a bunch of small towns in Kentucky & Indiana. But first prove to me the jobs are there, and that these people will make this "boatload" of money, because they will have to relocate and that ain't cheap. But I can guarantee you, if what you say is true, I can find the workers. I have people in my store everyday, my friend in Cincy has people in his store everyday. The town I live in is becoming a ghost town because people are leaving to find work, they'd be happy as hell to come to where ever you are.
 angelsands

Joined: 9/17/2005
Msg: 384
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Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have
Posted: 8/30/2009 2:02:04 AM
First off, Mr ready,, I do not know what You consider a "boatload of money" ... But the thing is.. that they don't even have to relocate.. I don't know ...maybe they will have to.... But I can tell You this. if You Know of any military base close to where You live, You can send "your people" there..... I am sure they can find a job there... NOPE...!! I am not talking about ENLISTING.... Here we are in need of construction workers... And the last report I have shows that most of the goverment enticed jobs ALL AROUND THE COUNTRY are in the same situation... Call fort bragg... fort gordon... camp lejune,,.... the point... well... You get the idea... Uhh.. I hope...!! WE ARE IN NEED OF GOOD WORKERS...!! Send them in...................!!!

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Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > Illegal Immigration and The Upcoming Election: What Impact will it have